Who will be better at getting America out of debt, Trump or Hillary?

[Ray From Cleveland]

What regulation specifically? I like clean air and being able to see the sky.

So can you tell me of a time when you didn't have clean air and being able to see the sky?

What regulations? Well let's start off with the latest where DumBama had his minions close down coal fired power plants and instituted multi-million dollar improvements on the ones that remained open. Who do you think is going to pay for all that? Well yes........you and I will, but it won't put us in the poor house. Now imagine how much your electric bill goes up if you have a business that uses a lot of electricity like shops that use a lot of machinery.

In my business, we got hit with all kinds of new regulations that cost my employer hundreds of thousands of dollars. Of course he only pays up front. These costs get passed down to our customers who manufacture products you and I buy in the store every time we go shopping.

What regulations? First of all they lowered the sulfur content in diesel fuel during the Bush administration. Until recently, that increased the cost per gallon by a dollar or more. A tractor-trailer averages about 6 mpg. Next they implemented regulations on truck manufacturers. These trucks today have all kinds of pollution gadgets on them, and in the purchase price alone, it increased the cost per truck by about 10 grand.

The more crap you have in a vehicle, the more things break down. I would estimate that about 80% of our problems with trucks has to do with some pollution gadget going haywire. Today, trucks are in the shop every other month or less.

All trucks manufactured after 2010 had to have a Diesel Emission Fluid system on it, or DEF for short. DEF is a separate container that squirts fluid into the exhaust pipe supposedly to make it burn cleaner. DEF is about $3.50 a gallon. While that doesn't sound like a lot of money, multiply that by 10,20 or even 50 trucks. It's quite a cost. It makes one wonder how many of our representatives in Washington had stock in companies that make DEF.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No, not at all...not even sure how you may have thought so.
And, this wasn't about bringing jobs back here either.

Companies shouldn't have been allowed to close facilities here
and build new facilities overseas, in the first place.
Especially, because the only reason was, has been and is,
to lower costs and increase profits...show me the money, cha ching.

Okay, so how would you stop plants closing down here to build elsewhere in a free country?

I couldn't but, we could.

Let's use general mills,
and the first facility they planned to close

If millions of people, collectively, took a stand, THEN,
and refused to buy any of their products, post haste
and indefinitely, if they followed through,

The money lost post haste would have been significant,
enough so, that they wouldn't close the facility and go anywhere.
One collective stance, not only, would have saved the first facility
but, it would have prevented all the ones that followed.

Furthermore, it would have put other companies on notice,
don't even think about it!

Companies, corporations and conglomerates,
won't change hearing the displeasure of the people,
but, by feeling the displeasure of the people!

Hit them in their pocketbooks and they'll start listening!
This can only happen collectively, over time....

Nothing would have changed, had Rosa Parks,
been the only one to stop riding the bus.

Nothing would have changed, had the masses,
got tired of the inconvenience of walking by weeks end.

Nothing changes if nothing changes

Companies shouldn't be free to hurt our economy,
put people out of jobs, hurting families,
and refuse to reinvest in the communities it profits from...
solely to make more money.

So what you are talking about is the consumer taking action and not government.

Yes, that would work if there was any unity among the people, but that's never going to happen. It would be like trying to convince most people to vote for Trump.

The American consumer is not concerned the least where a company builds their business, just as long as the price is lower. Walmart is the number one store in the US today and has been for a long time now. Do you think one Walmart customer feels guilty about buying all those foreign products and putting Americans out of a job? Of course not. They don't care.

People are out for themselves. I remember the conversion from full serve gasoline stations to self-serve. It started out small. First the gas station would designate one island as self-serve. To attract people to those pumps, they lowered the price per gallon by a few cents. They didn't lose any money because the less people that purchased gasoline from the full-service pumps, the more their mechanics could concentrate on car repairs, the less people they had to hire to pump gasoline.

Then customers started to wait in line for those self-service pumps, so the station opened up another one, then another.

Before you knew it, all gas stations had self-service islands and full-service gasoline was a part of our history. Do you think one motorist cared that they were putting a gasoline attendant out of work? Hell no. Just lower the price anyway you can.

If stores did the same thing--offering a 3% discount for customers using the self checkout lines, cashiers would be a thing of the past as well. Currently, they use it as an option for people that don't want to wait in line to have a cashier scan their items. But if you visit any particular store, note how they are reducing the cashier lines and opening up more self checkout lines.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

There is a very good chance that Toyota was made here. We make a lot of cars here. If it becomes more expensive to import raw materials that may not be the case in the future.

Yes, that's true, but these are not UAW plants.

Toyota puts their money into quality parts and engineering instead of big union money and benefits, so they can make a much better car.

One of the first things I noticed when I purchased my first Toyota was the windshield wiper squirters. In American cars, they run a cheap rubber line to the outside of the windshield wiper arm to squirt the cleaner. That works okay in the summer, but up north during the winter time, those things always freeze up. Then you have to go into the house, get some hot water, pour it on the squirter and rubber line, and quickly run into the car to activate the washer fluid.

In Toyota's, the squirter is inside of the hood of the car. So even if the fluid would freeze, it would only be for a couple of minutes until the heat from the engine thawed out the squirter. To be totally honest, I haven't had a windshield washer fluid freeze up since I started driving Toyota's.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

I think Trump has a better idea of how to spend money. Clinton never ran a hotdog stand in her life outside of her marriage.

Both are talking about spending, but a Republican Congress would stop both of them. However I think a Republican President will have an easier time working with Congress than Hillary.

We can't even discuss getting out of debt until we at least have a balanced budget. That will never happen with Hillary, it may happen with Trump.

Didn't Bill Clinton have a balanced budget? Maybe he could show her how he done it.

"We know big Government does not have all the answers. We know there's not a program for every problem. We know, and we have worked to give the American people a smaller, less bureaucratic Government in Washington. And we have to give the American people one that lives within its means. THE ERA OF BIG GOVERNMENT IS OVER.

I say to those who are on welfare, and especially to those who have been trapped on welfare for a long time: For too long our welfare system has undermined the values of family and work, instead of supporting them. The Congress and I are near agreement on sweeping welfare reform. We agree on TIME LIMITS, tough WORK REQUIREMENTS, and the toughest possible child support enforcement"

President Clinton's 1996 State of the Union Address as delivered


There is your answer, stop allowing government to bail-out our personal problems and allow the American people to be more responsible of their own decisions and step up.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

"We know big Government does not have all the answers. We know there's not a program for every problem. We know, and we have worked to give the American people a smaller, less bureaucratic Government in Washington. And we have to give the American people one that lives within its means. THE ERA OF BIG GOVERNMENT IS OVER.

I say to those who are on welfare, and especially to those who have been trapped on welfare for a long time: For too long our welfare system has undermined the values of family and work, instead of supporting them. The Congress and I are near agreement on sweeping welfare reform. We agree on TIME LIMITS, tough WORK REQUIREMENTS, and the toughest possible child support enforcement"

President Clinton's 1996 State of the Union Address as delivered


There is your answer, stop allowing government to bail-out our personal problems and allow the American people to be more responsible of their own decisions and step up.

"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution, that grants Congress the right, of expending on articles of benevolence, the money of their constituents."
James Madison, annals of Congress, 1794

 

[Brain357]

What regulation specifically? I like clean air and being able to see the sky.

So can you tell me of a time when you didn't have clean air and being able to see the sky?

What regulations? Well let's start off with the latest where DumBama had his minions close down coal fired power plants and instituted multi-million dollar improvements on the ones that remained open. Who do you think is going to pay for all that? Well yes........you and I will, but it won't put us in the poor house. Now imagine how much your electric bill goes up if you have a business that uses a lot of electricity like shops that use a lot of machinery.

In my business, we got hit with all kinds of new regulations that cost my employer hundreds of thousands of dollars. Of course he only pays up front. These costs get passed down to our customers who manufacture products you and I buy in the store every time we go shopping.

What regulations? First of all they lowered the sulfur content in diesel fuel during the Bush administration. Until recently, that increased the cost per gallon by a dollar or more. A tractor-trailer averages about 6 mpg. Next they implemented regulations on truck manufacturers. These trucks today have all kinds of pollution gadgets on them, and in the purchase price alone, it increased the cost per truck by about 10 grand.

The more crap you have in a vehicle, the more things break down. I would estimate that about 80% of our problems with trucks has to do with some pollution gadget going haywire. Today, trucks are in the shop every other month or less.

All trucks manufactured after 2010 had to have a Diesel Emission Fluid system on it, or DEF for short. DEF is a separate container that squirts fluid into the exhaust pipe supposedly to make it burn cleaner. DEF is about $3.50 a gallon. While that doesn't sound like a lot of money, multiply that by 10,20 or even 50 trucks. It's quite a cost. It makes one wonder how many of our representatives in Washington had stock in companies that make DEF.

So you want to lower regulations on coal? Seriously? The reason we can only eat fish once a week and you want to make it worse.

What Is the Environmental Impact of Mining and Burning Coal? - dummies

Burning coal releases toxins. Coal contains sulfur and other elements, including dangerous metals such as mercury, lead, and arsenic, that escape into the air when coal is burned. Burning coal also produces particulates that increase air pollution and health dangers.

• 
  Burning coal emits large amounts of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. Coal is composed almost entirely of carbon, so burning coal unleashes large amounts of carbon dioxide (CO2) into the atmosphere. These emissions have been shown to increase the greenhouse effect in the atmosphere and lead to global warming.

• Subsurface coal mining is dangerous. Coal is often mined in subsurface mines, which may collapse and trap miners. And the air in subsurface coal mines leads to black lung disease, where coal particles and pollutants fill the lungs and cause inflammation and respiratory illness.

• Surface coal mining damages the environment. Mountaintop removal mining is used to access layers of coal buried deep within mountains. This mining technique alters the landscape and damages ecosystems.

Like I said, I like to breath fresh air and see the sky. Coal is not the future. You want to pollute like China and then have to pay for that clean up later. No thanks.

This is what's choking the Chinese economy
The Asian colossus is losing 6.5 percent of GDP to pollution-rated costs.

 

[Brain357]

There is a very good chance that Toyota was made here. We make a lot of cars here. If it becomes more expensive to import raw materials that may not be the case in the future.

Yes, that's true, but these are not UAW plants.

Toyota puts their money into quality parts and engineering instead of big union money and benefits, so they can make a much better car.

One of the first things I noticed when I purchased my first Toyota was the windshield wiper squirters. In American cars, they run a cheap rubber line to the outside of the windshield wiper arm to squirt the cleaner. That works okay in the summer, but up north during the winter time, those things always freeze up. Then you have to go into the house, get some hot water, pour it on the squirter and rubber line, and quickly run into the car to activate the washer fluid.

In Toyota's, the squirter is inside of the hood of the car. So even if the fluid would freeze, it would only be for a couple of minutes until the heat from the engine thawed out the squirter. To be totally honest, I haven't had a windshield washer fluid freeze up since I started driving Toyota's.

And if it becomes more expensive for Toyota to produce cars here due to tariffs they will move production to another country. I don't see what UAW has to do with it. We are talking about Trump tariffs and how they would kill our manufacturing.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

What regulation specifically? I like clean air and being able to see the sky.

So can you tell me of a time when you didn't have clean air and being able to see the sky?

What regulations? Well let's start off with the latest where DumBama had his minions close down coal fired power plants and instituted multi-million dollar improvements on the ones that remained open. Who do you think is going to pay for all that? Well yes........you and I will, but it won't put us in the poor house. Now imagine how much your electric bill goes up if you have a business that uses a lot of electricity like shops that use a lot of machinery.

In my business, we got hit with all kinds of new regulations that cost my employer hundreds of thousands of dollars. Of course he only pays up front. These costs get passed down to our customers who manufacture products you and I buy in the store every time we go shopping.

What regulations? First of all they lowered the sulfur content in diesel fuel during the Bush administration. Until recently, that increased the cost per gallon by a dollar or more. A tractor-trailer averages about 6 mpg. Next they implemented regulations on truck manufacturers. These trucks today have all kinds of pollution gadgets on them, and in the purchase price alone, it increased the cost per truck by about 10 grand.

The more crap you have in a vehicle, the more things break down. I would estimate that about 80% of our problems with trucks has to do with some pollution gadget going haywire. Today, trucks are in the shop every other month or less.

All trucks manufactured after 2010 had to have a Diesel Emission Fluid system on it, or DEF for short. DEF is a separate container that squirts fluid into the exhaust pipe supposedly to make it burn cleaner. DEF is about $3.50 a gallon. While that doesn't sound like a lot of money, multiply that by 10,20 or even 50 trucks. It's quite a cost. It makes one wonder how many of our representatives in Washington had stock in companies that make DEF.

So you want to lower regulations on coal? Seriously? The reason we can only eat fish once a week and you want to make it worse.

What Is the Environmental Impact of Mining and Burning Coal? - dummies

Burning coal releases toxins. Coal contains sulfur and other elements, including dangerous metals such as mercury, lead, and arsenic, that escape into the air when coal is burned. Burning coal also produces particulates that increase air pollution and health dangers.

• 
  Burning coal emits large amounts of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. Coal is composed almost entirely of carbon, so burning coal unleashes large amounts of carbon dioxide (CO2) into the atmosphere. These emissions have been shown to increase the greenhouse effect in the atmosphere and lead to global warming.

• Subsurface coal mining is dangerous. Coal is often mined in subsurface mines, which may collapse and trap miners. And the air in subsurface coal mines leads to black lung disease, where coal particles and pollutants fill the lungs and cause inflammation and respiratory illness.

• Surface coal mining damages the environment. Mountaintop removal mining is used to access layers of coal buried deep within mountains. This mining technique alters the landscape and damages ecosystems.

Like I said, I like to breath fresh air and see the sky. Coal is not the future. You want to pollute like China and then have to pay for that clean up later. No thanks.

This is what's choking the Chinese economy
The Asian colossus is losing 6.5 percent of GDP to pollution-rated costs.

So all these new costly regulations on the transportation industry cost us billions of dollars--billions we have to transfer to our manufacturing industry in the US. But can't you just smell how much cleaner the air is????

You were the one who brought up the point that the more costly we make it on our manufacturing in this country, the less competitive we are. I was merely pointing out that environmental regulations do just that.

 

[Brain357]

What regulation specifically? I like clean air and being able to see the sky.

So can you tell me of a time when you didn't have clean air and being able to see the sky?

What regulations? Well let's start off with the latest where DumBama had his minions close down coal fired power plants and instituted multi-million dollar improvements on the ones that remained open. Who do you think is going to pay for all that? Well yes........you and I will, but it won't put us in the poor house. Now imagine how much your electric bill goes up if you have a business that uses a lot of electricity like shops that use a lot of machinery.

In my business, we got hit with all kinds of new regulations that cost my employer hundreds of thousands of dollars. Of course he only pays up front. These costs get passed down to our customers who manufacture products you and I buy in the store every time we go shopping.

What regulations? First of all they lowered the sulfur content in diesel fuel during the Bush administration. Until recently, that increased the cost per gallon by a dollar or more. A tractor-trailer averages about 6 mpg. Next they implemented regulations on truck manufacturers. These trucks today have all kinds of pollution gadgets on them, and in the purchase price alone, it increased the cost per truck by about 10 grand.

The more crap you have in a vehicle, the more things break down. I would estimate that about 80% of our problems with trucks has to do with some pollution gadget going haywire. Today, trucks are in the shop every other month or less.

All trucks manufactured after 2010 had to have a Diesel Emission Fluid system on it, or DEF for short. DEF is a separate container that squirts fluid into the exhaust pipe supposedly to make it burn cleaner. DEF is about $3.50 a gallon. While that doesn't sound like a lot of money, multiply that by 10,20 or even 50 trucks. It's quite a cost. It makes one wonder how many of our representatives in Washington had stock in companies that make DEF.

So you want to lower regulations on coal? Seriously? The reason we can only eat fish once a week and you want to make it worse.

What Is the Environmental Impact of Mining and Burning Coal? - dummies

Burning coal releases toxins. Coal contains sulfur and other elements, including dangerous metals such as mercury, lead, and arsenic, that escape into the air when coal is burned. Burning coal also produces particulates that increase air pollution and health dangers.

• 
  Burning coal emits large amounts of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. Coal is composed almost entirely of carbon, so burning coal unleashes large amounts of carbon dioxide (CO2) into the atmosphere. These emissions have been shown to increase the greenhouse effect in the atmosphere and lead to global warming.

• Subsurface coal mining is dangerous. Coal is often mined in subsurface mines, which may collapse and trap miners. And the air in subsurface coal mines leads to black lung disease, where coal particles and pollutants fill the lungs and cause inflammation and respiratory illness.

• Surface coal mining damages the environment. Mountaintop removal mining is used to access layers of coal buried deep within mountains. This mining technique alters the landscape and damages ecosystems.

Like I said, I like to breath fresh air and see the sky. Coal is not the future. You want to pollute like China and then have to pay for that clean up later. No thanks.

This is what's choking the Chinese economy
The Asian colossus is losing 6.5 percent of GDP to pollution-rated costs.

So all these new costly regulations on the transportation industry cost us billions of dollars--billions we have to transfer to our manufacturing industry in the US. But can't you just smell how much cleaner the air is????

You were the one who brought up the point that the more costly we make it on our manufacturing in this country, the less competitive we are. I was merely pointing out that environmental regulations do just that.

And there are a lot of benefits to having a clean environment. Look at how much a polluted environment costs China.

There is nothing good about tariffs. Just increased costs to consumers and manufacturing. When did righties decide more taxes are the way to a strong economy? So much for that small government stuff eh?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

And if it becomes more expensive for Toyota to produce cars here due to tariffs they will move production to another country. I don't see what UAW has to do with it. We are talking about Trump tariffs and how they would kill our manufacturing.

The UAW is why American cars suck compared to foreign cars. Between overpaying their employees and providing them with costly benefits, they drain all the money that could have been used on better quality parts and engineering.

I ran into a guy that I used to hang around with as a teen. We began talking about old times. He brought up one of the guys that we hung around with. He's only a few years older than me, but retired at the age of 50 as a painter for the auto company. Nice pension and medical care. No need to work. American auto consumers will be supporting him the rest of his life.

That doesn't happen with Japanese car manufacturers. You work until retirement age (65 years old) and go on Medicare and SS like the rest of us.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

And there are a lot of benefits to having a clean environment. Look at how much a polluted environment costs China.

There is nothing good about tariffs. Just increased costs to consumers and manufacturing. When did righties decide more taxes are the way to a strong economy? So much for that small government stuff eh?

The righties are not for it. I was just pointing out some of the positives that could come from it.

 

[Brain357]

And if it becomes more expensive for Toyota to produce cars here due to tariffs they will move production to another country. I don't see what UAW has to do with it. We are talking about Trump tariffs and how they would kill our manufacturing.

The UAW is why American cars suck compared to foreign cars. Between overpaying their employees and providing them with costly benefits, they drain all the money that could have been used on better quality parts and engineering.

I ran into a guy that I used to hang around with as a teen. We began talking about old times. He brought up one of the guys that we hung around with. He's only a few years older than me, but retired at the age of 50 as a painter for the auto company. Nice pension and medical care. No need to work. American auto consumers will be supporting him the rest of his life.

That doesn't happen with Japanese car manufacturers. You work until retirement age (65 years old) and go on Medicare and SS like the rest of us.

That is all a completely different debate. Obviously you are wrong, but I have no interest in completely changing the subject. Tariffs are already a bit off from the OP, but when Trump kills the economy paying the debt off will be impossible.

Like I said, if manufacturing becomes more expensive due to tariffs it will kill manufacturing. Toyota will go make cars somewhere else.

 

[Brain357]

And there are a lot of benefits to having a clean environment. Look at how much a polluted environment costs China.

There is nothing good about tariffs. Just increased costs to consumers and manufacturing. When did righties decide more taxes are the way to a strong economy? So much for that small government stuff eh?

The righties are not for it. I was just pointing out some of the positives that could come from it.

Where is the Trump support coming from then? Sure isn't the lefties.

 

[Eloy]

With money so cheap nowadays, eliminating the national debt is not a priority for either party.

 

[nicoleivy5]

With money so cheap nowadays, eliminating the national debt is not a priority for either party.

agreed money is so cheap

 

[Rustic]

US debt is $19 trillion, the largest in the world for a single country - we owe a ton of money to other nations

Who is better suited to getting our nation out of debt, or at least lower the amount substantially?

It's far too large to ever pay off, anyway progressive career politicians have no desire to get out of debt... their corruption knows no different.

 

[KissMy]

People, investment & jobs were in limbo from uncertainty over the direction of the country due to the Florida recount in November 2000. Then when 40% of the country believed Bush stole the election he caused 40% of the country to stop everything & started Rioting. That even ground Bush's inauguration to a halt! Then Bush shoved throu his deficit exploding tax cut for the Rich & massive inflation for the poor! Bush caused 2 recessions & depression!!!

Rioting? I don't recall any riots.

Anybody that wanted to believe the nonsense that Bush stole the election simply had to go to Factcheck.org to understand that it was all a liberal lie and myth. Furthermore, I don't know why the false belief that Bush stole the election had anything to do with the economy. The economy improved when Bush took office, even after 911. What I would like to know is how did Bush cause inflation only for the poor?

View attachment 93648

Gallup Poll: The Way Bush Won the 2000 Presidential Election
Won Fair & Square, Won on a Technicality, Stole the Election

 

[xyz]

Trump can't even get himself out of debt.

 

[sartre play]

The mistake trump voters make, that you can run the government like a business. check it out you can't.

 

[nicoleivy5]

With money so cheap nowadays, eliminating the national debt is not a priority for either party.

really