Who's Afraid of Socialism?

[georgephillip]

Is this why you believe Rand's fictions?

"'Ayn Rand is my hero,' yet another student tells me during office hours. 'Her writings freed me. They taught me to rely on no one but myself.'"

What Happens When You Believe in Ayn Rand and Modern Economic Theory - Evonomics

You need to quit reading Marxist propaganda by people who know nothing about Rand.

How do you understand this example of Randian Reasoning?

What Happens When You Believe in Ayn Rand and Modern Economic Theory - Evonomics

"In 'Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal,' Rand put it this way:

"Collectivism is the tribal premise of primordial savages who, unable to conceive of individual rights, believed that the tribe is a supreme, omnipotent ruler, that it owns the lives of its members and may sacrifice them whenever it pleases."

Are you in favor of removing all religious and political controls that inhibit individuals from pursing self-interest?

No, yes. The idea of 'religious controls' in western culture is a joke. If you don't want to follow a religion, there is nothing more to be done, than to stop showing up the following week.

As far as political controls, yes of course. Are you saying you don't believe in individual rights?

Now keep in mind that we're talking about non-crime actions. Of course I still want 'controls' on murder. However the difference between murder, and earning a million dollars, and keeping that money, and passing that money onto my grand kids.... is that murder violates the individual rights of another person. Earning money and keeping it, and passing it on to who I choose, does not.

Just like choosing who I bake a cake for, is my individual right. You don't have a right to my labor, to bake you a wedding cake.

So, yes absolutely I support removing all political controls that inhibit individual rights.

No, yes. The idea of 'religious controls' in western culture is a joke. If you don't want to follow a religion, there is nothing more to be done, than to stop showing up the following week.

Are you smart enough to understand the world is getting more religious because the poor go for god? Religion thrives in places where liberal individualism fails; think of it as the real clash of civilizations, if you can.

The world is getting less religious, moron. That's what all the surveys show.

Got any proof of the claim "the world is getting less religious"?

 

[sakinago]

Which institution do "the people" use to organize labor and allocate resources? In capitalism a few very rich people make these decisions that affect millions of stakeholders.

Socialism expands the pool of decision makers far beyond the boardroom; do you actually believe the richest members of society are entitled to decide what to produce, who to produce for, and where to produce?

Which institution do "the people" use to organize labor and allocate resources?

The market informs the capitalists how to use their resources. In essence we are all part of the decision in a capitalist system. That really wouldn't change under a socialist system of production.

Democracy at work is a wonderful step forward and should help to alleviate some of the social issues caused by capitalism.

The problem with democratic socialism is the many dictating the policy for the few. Even in the countries with the best ran socialized medicine, it works fine and dandy when whatever ailment you have can be treated by a family practicioner, but you best hope to not need a specialist. Not only are their specialists sub par compared to the likes of the average US and Swiss specialist with way less options for treatment that are outdated, you’re going to be waiting for months to get that treatment. Hopefully your specialized ailment isn’t urgent or a deteriorating condition. If so, you best hope you have the money to afford treatment in Switzerland or the US. Perfect examples of this that went global were the Charlie guard and the most recent case a few months ago where the child was allowed to receive treatment elsewhere (after a long legal battle) and was able to saved (despite the NHS basically declaring him already dead).

Another issue with socialism is if government is offering positive rights to people, then you can’t say shit to me when I abuse those rights. If healthcare is a right, then you can’t say shit to me if I live off of a diet of pixie sticks, butter, soda, alcohol, and cigs. It’s a right, therefore paying for my health is not my responsibility, it’s societies. At least that’s philosophically the way it’s supposed to be in practice, but it isn’t. No, the government cannot let you be a drain on the system so it’s going to put into place policies to pressure you to stay healthy like sin taxes (which don’t work and are just taxes on the poor). Or they just say that’s it for you, there’s no more we can do, just like with Charlie guard.

The problem with democratic socialism

I agree.

I subscribe to the ideas found in scientific socialism, aka Marxism (communism).

Oh so non-democratically. How’s that gonna work? Glorious revolution? Capitalism is just a shadowy oligarchy right? So to fix it let’s just put in an actual oligarchy with absolute control. Do what needs to be done with the people that don’t want that. That’s a lot of re-education, for many they’ll need a bullet in the head to help jog their learning. With “science” approved by the glorious leader? The same social sciences that approve articles designed to expose them where they plaguerize Mien Kampf and replace the word Jew with “whiteness”? That type of “science”?

Really, how many more millions of people need to starve to death or be lethally re-educated because of Marxism before y’all finally admit that you’re all just envious narcissist? Oh and that Marxism really does not work, unless you believe in making all the trees even by cutting them all down to the same level...which is really really low. Apparently some 100 million isn’t enough.

My problem isn't with democracy. I think it is great and we need more of it.

I don't agree with the idea that we can build a socialist society on the back of capitalism. That seems to be the idea that is associated with democratic socialism and I don't believe it is feasible.

Scientific socialism (Marxism) is the study of human social development and economics using the Hegelian dialectic method. Marxism works great at interpreting the world. I think you have a lot of misconceptions about it.

I don’t have misconceptions. It is a top down, simple answer for thousands and thousands of very complex systems that are all commingling and constantly evolving in ways science doesn’t even understand yet. What you are suggesting is extremely non-creative and unadaptive system that offers a one or a few sizes fits all. It only looks at the world through one, maybe two lenses, money and power. It’s reactive, not proactive. And that’s when it is run optimally. It makes government too powerful and too tempting for self service for those in power. You could have Jesus running things but it’s only a matter of time for an asshole to take the reigns.

 

[Uncensored2008]

The world is getting less religious, moron. That's what all the surveys show.

It depends on how you define religion.

AGW is an insidious, albeit primitive cult. It is growing because it is simple - for the simple minded such as leftists and Hollywood.

 

[Billy_Bob]

Who’s Afraid of Socialism? | Open Media Boston

"Capitalism’s incompatibility with majority interests has been reaffirmed by the current economic crisis.

"Earlier, the most severe effects of capitalism had been offset, within the US, by the progressive reforms of the 1930s.

"But capital’s political power was less restrained in this country than it was in the other rich countries.

"Flush with military might and bolstered by a mass right-wing culture of arrogant self-righteousness, US capital launched a withering counterattack against the New Deal legacy, culminating in an almost three-decade orgy of anti-welfare legislation, imperialist aggression, privatization, and deregulation."

Unrestrained profit maximization results in concentrating an enormous amount of surplus capital which can find few safe investments.

"Free market" capitalists turn to highly speculative scams which generate financial bubbles as the real economy continues to be hollowed out and the working class is driven deeper into debt.

Socialism would turn to government for an alternative, but US government is Goldman Sachs regardless of which major party is in control.

Anybody with any common sense or capacity to commit logic is afraid of socialism. All you have to do is look at Venezuela to see why you have to be insane to adopt such economic policies.

You want to become a third world shit hole, adopt socialism... 10 years or less and we can be rioting here to and fighting for food...

 

[Uncensored2008]

Comrade, linking to other message boards violates the TOS.

Support your hate with more mainstream sources

What other message board are you referring to, Kulak?
Another of your toxic capitalist delusions?

"Free Cities," retard.

Did you read the shit you posted, or is it just on a list from the hate sites that supply your idiocy?

{This is going to be a long post because Ayn Rand wrote punishingly long “novels” }

You may be stupid, but you know what a "post" is, idiot.

 

[georgephillip]

Yes. What's the harm in pursuing self interest?

"What Happens When You Believe in Ayn Rand and Modern Economic Theory
The reality of unfettered self-interest"

What Happens When You Believe in Ayn Rand and Modern Economic Theory - Evonomics

Socialist propaganda. The authors starts lying about Rand right off the bat.

Socialist propaganda. The authors starts lying about Rand right off the bat.

Is this why you believe Rand's fictions?

"'Ayn Rand is my hero,' yet another student tells me during office hours. 'Her writings freed me. They taught me to rely on no one but myself.'"

What Happens When You Believe in Ayn Rand and Modern Economic Theory - Evonomics

You need to quit reading Marxist propaganda by people who know nothing about Rand.

How do you understand this example of Randian Reasoning?

What Happens When You Believe in Ayn Rand and Modern Economic Theory - Evonomics

"In 'Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal,' Rand put it this way:

"Collectivism is the tribal premise of primordial savages who, unable to conceive of individual rights, believed that the tribe is a supreme, omnipotent ruler, that it owns the lives of its members and may sacrifice them whenever it pleases."

Are you in favor of removing all religious and political controls that inhibit individuals from pursing self-interest?

Yes. What's the harm in pursuing self interest?

Ask Eddie Lampert

"In 2008, Sears CEO Eddie Lampert decided to restructure the company according to Rand’s principles.

"Lampert broke the company into more than 30 individual units, each with its own management and each measured separately for profit and loss.

"The idea was to promote competition among the units, which Lampert assumed would lead to higher profits.

"Instead, this is what happened, as described by Mina Kimes, a reporter for Bloomberg Business.

"An outspoken advocate of free-market economics and fan of the novelist Ayn Rand, he created the model because he expected the invisible hand of the market to drive better results.

"If the company’s leaders were told to act selfishly, he argued, they would run their divisions in a rational manner, boosting overall performance."

What Happens When You Believe in Ayn Rand and Modern Economic Theory - Evonomics

Bought any Sears stock lately, Loon?

 

[Tehon]

The market informs the capitalists how to use their resources. In essence we are all part of the decision in a capitalist system. That really wouldn't change under a socialist system of production.

Democracy at work is a wonderful step forward and should help to alleviate some of the social issues caused by capitalism.

The problem with democratic socialism is the many dictating the policy for the few. Even in the countries with the best ran socialized medicine, it works fine and dandy when whatever ailment you have can be treated by a family practicioner, but you best hope to not need a specialist. Not only are their specialists sub par compared to the likes of the average US and Swiss specialist with way less options for treatment that are outdated, you’re going to be waiting for months to get that treatment. Hopefully your specialized ailment isn’t urgent or a deteriorating condition. If so, you best hope you have the money to afford treatment in Switzerland or the US. Perfect examples of this that went global were the Charlie guard and the most recent case a few months ago where the child was allowed to receive treatment elsewhere (after a long legal battle) and was able to saved (despite the NHS basically declaring him already dead).

Another issue with socialism is if government is offering positive rights to people, then you can’t say shit to me when I abuse those rights. If healthcare is a right, then you can’t say shit to me if I live off of a diet of pixie sticks, butter, soda, alcohol, and cigs. It’s a right, therefore paying for my health is not my responsibility, it’s societies. At least that’s philosophically the way it’s supposed to be in practice, but it isn’t. No, the government cannot let you be a drain on the system so it’s going to put into place policies to pressure you to stay healthy like sin taxes (which don’t work and are just taxes on the poor). Or they just say that’s it for you, there’s no more we can do, just like with Charlie guard.

The problem with democratic socialism

I agree.

I subscribe to the ideas found in scientific socialism, aka Marxism (communism).

Oh so non-democratically. How’s that gonna work? Glorious revolution? Capitalism is just a shadowy oligarchy right? So to fix it let’s just put in an actual oligarchy with absolute control. Do what needs to be done with the people that don’t want that. That’s a lot of re-education, for many they’ll need a bullet in the head to help jog their learning. With “science” approved by the glorious leader? The same social sciences that approve articles designed to expose them where they plaguerize Mien Kampf and replace the word Jew with “whiteness”? That type of “science”?

Really, how many more millions of people need to starve to death or be lethally re-educated because of Marxism before y’all finally admit that you’re all just envious narcissist? Oh and that Marxism really does not work, unless you believe in making all the trees even by cutting them all down to the same level...which is really really low. Apparently some 100 million isn’t enough.

My problem isn't with democracy. I think it is great and we need more of it.

I don't agree with the idea that we can build a socialist society on the back of capitalism. That seems to be the idea that is associated with democratic socialism and I don't believe it is feasible.

Scientific socialism (Marxism) is the study of human social development and economics using the Hegelian dialectic method. Marxism works great at interpreting the world. I think you have a lot of misconceptions about it.

I don’t have misconceptions. It is a top down, simple answer for thousands and thousands of very complex systems that are all commingling and constantly evolving in ways science doesn’t even understand yet. What you are suggesting is extremely non-creative and unadaptive system that offers a one or a few sizes fits all. It only looks at the world through one, maybe two lenses, money and power. It’s reactive, not proactive. And that’s when it is run optimally. It makes government too powerful and too tempting for self service for those in power. You could have Jesus running things but it’s only a matter of time for an asshole to take the reigns.

You have lots of misconceptions. The most glaring in this text is;

It only looks at the world through one, maybe two lenses, money and power.

This ^ is the world of capitalism. Scientific socialism would abolish money and along with it power. You've never read Marx, have you?

 

[georgephillip]

Comrade, linking to other message boards violates the TOS.

Support your hate with more mainstream sources

What other message board are you referring to, Kulak?
Another of your toxic capitalist delusions?

"Free Cities," retard.

Did you read the shit you posted, or is it just on a list from the hate sites that supply your idiocy?

{This is going to be a long post because Ayn Rand wrote punishingly long “novels” }

You may be stupid, but you know what a "post" is, idiot.

"Free Cities" is a blog, not a message board, Turd.

"And that fantasy — the fantasy of success in the face of failure, of genius in the face of stupidity, of progress in the face of regression — is the stuff that American politics are built on. If you fail at life, it’s everyone else’s fault and everyone should suffer.

"Your shittiness is to be exalted. To be celebrated. Because it’s not real. You’re secretly the best. Everyone else be damned.

"Donald Trump is the perfect final form of the half-century of Ayn Rand obsession. We have walked ourselves to this point. I hope we understand how to walk back."

Ayn Rand and the Celebration of Shittiness – TheFreeCities

 

[georgephillip]

Who’s Afraid of Socialism? | Open Media Boston

"Capitalism’s incompatibility with majority interests has been reaffirmed by the current economic crisis.

"Earlier, the most severe effects of capitalism had been offset, within the US, by the progressive reforms of the 1930s.

"But capital’s political power was less restrained in this country than it was in the other rich countries.

"Flush with military might and bolstered by a mass right-wing culture of arrogant self-righteousness, US capital launched a withering counterattack against the New Deal legacy, culminating in an almost three-decade orgy of anti-welfare legislation, imperialist aggression, privatization, and deregulation."

Unrestrained profit maximization results in concentrating an enormous amount of surplus capital which can find few safe investments.

"Free market" capitalists turn to highly speculative scams which generate financial bubbles as the real economy continues to be hollowed out and the working class is driven deeper into debt.

Socialism would turn to government for an alternative, but US government is Goldman Sachs regardless of which major party is in control.

Anybody with any common sense or capacity to commit logic is afraid of socialism. All you have to do is look at Venezuela to see why you have to be insane to adopt such economic policies.

You want to become a third world shit hole, adopt socialism... 10 years or less and we can be rioting here to and fighting for food...

You want to become a third world shit hole, adopt socialism... 10 years or less and we can be rioting here to and fighting for food...

There are other factors (aside from socialism) that could have Americans rioting in the streets within the next ten years, rising consumer debt and (less likely) an end to the world's reserve currency status for the US dollar.

"In November 2018, U.S. consumer debt rose 6.7 percent to $3.979 trillion. That surpassed last month's record of $3.957 trillion.

"Of this, $2.937 trillion was non-revolving debt, and it rose 7.1 percent.

"Most non-revolving debt is education and auto loans.

"In September 2018, school debt totaled $1.564 trillion and auto loans were $1.141 trillion.

"Credit card debt totaled $1.042 trillion, increasing 5.5 percent. It exceeds the record of $1.02 trillion set in 2008.

"But credit card debt is only 26.2 percent of total debt.

"It was 38 percent of total debt in 2008."

3 Reasons Why Americans Are in So Much Debt

 

[francoHFW]

Actually, dunce, I have a master's in history a lot of 20th century.of course lenin ruled from the top and the Soviets took orders and watched people. Saying that Lenin was really Democratic is idiocy. That was Soviet propaganda. People figured it out and then smart people stopped calling communism socialism. It is a right-wing thing. right wing propaganda Loves confusing socialism and communism and Marxism and now Nazism even. No connection to reality at all. Now everyone outside the GOP bubble Of BS knows it.

You must have gotten that masters from a Cracker Jack box. My DOG knows more history than you.

You are historically illiterate.

It's sad that this traitor ignoramus was allowed to teach his filth to children.

So Lenin was a great hero of democracy LOL you're absolutely out of your mind, super duper. Everything you know is wrong LOL.

 

[francoHFW]

I'm afraid their meaning of socialism is confused like most Americans... It is the bastion of democracy and Cold War beliefs after all. And besides that now they have the GOP propaganda machine everywhere. A whole new set of facts LOL to confuse people with.

Oh, and what do you think the meaning of socialism is, Comrade?

All that is good?

Like Wikipedia and every real history book you'll ever not read, I believe that there have been three evolving definitions of socialism. First the theoretical Marxist definition, secondly the USSR and it's supposed somewhat Democratic and capitalistic Outlook, revealed to be spurious in the twenties and thirties, and the modern definition of democratic socialism, that is fair capitalism with a good safety net that is the type of government and economy of the modern world. With the United States and it's GOP rip off of the non rich I would say just outside. The next time the Democrats get in with 60 votes in the Senate we will have universal Health Care and Democratic socialism. And shove your GOP BS fear-mongering about communism up your ass. GOP Dupe voters are the stupidest voters in the modern world. The GOP giveaway to the rich and screwing the country and the non Rich has given us the worst inequality and upward Mobility ever and in the modern world by far, dumbass chumps of the greedy idiot rich --change the channel.

 

[francoHFW]

You must have gotten that masters from a Cracker Jack box. My DOG knows more history than you.

You are historically illiterate.

It's sad that this traitor ignoramus was allowed to teach his filth to children.

It's mind rape.

Public schools crush the ability to reason and punish critical thinking. Children recite by rote any bullshit the mind rapists ejaculate into their unformed conscience.

The schools follow the theories of Pavlov to turn thinking humans into drones conditioned to react to triggers.

It's mind rape.

Public schools crush the ability to reason and punish critical thinking. Children recite by rote any bullshit the mind rapists ejaculate into their unformed conscience.

The schools follow the theories of Pavlov to turn thinking humans into drones conditioned to react to triggers.

Who gets rich from that form of education? Capitalists who rely on a labor force reduced to the status of a commodity, or those who recognize capitalism has outlived any usefulness it ever possessed, and the time has come for the next evolutionary economic stage?

Historical materialism - Wikipedia

Capitalists who rely on a labor force reduced to the status of a commodity,

What was the work force in the gulag?
What's the level below commodity?

He has absolutely no idea what he is posting.
I'm starting to wonder if this guy is a bot.

And I taught in private schools over 35 years ago, so as usual you're totally wrong LOL. Brainwash functional moron. There is no scandal

It's sad that this traitor ignoramus was allowed to teach his filth to children.

It's mind rape.

Public schools crush the ability to reason and punish critical thinking. Children recite by rote any bullshit the mind rapists ejaculate into their unformed conscience.

The schools follow the theories of Pavlov to turn thinking humans into drones conditioned to react to triggers.

It's mind rape.

Public schools crush the ability to reason and punish critical thinking. Children recite by rote any bullshit the mind rapists ejaculate into their unformed conscience.

The schools follow the theories of Pavlov to turn thinking humans into drones conditioned to react to triggers.

Who gets rich from that form of education? Capitalists who rely on a labor force reduced to the status of a commodity, or those who recognize capitalism has outlived any usefulness it ever possessed, and the time has come for the next evolutionary economic stage?

Historical materialism - Wikipedia

Capitalists who rely on a labor force reduced to the status of a commodity,

What was the work force in the gulag?
What's the level below commodity?

He has absolutely no idea what he is posting.
I'm starting to wonder if this guy is a bot.

It's too dumb to be a bot.

You brainwashed functional morons have nothing but stupid insults and garbage talking points. Try the 21st century political science, and I don't mean brand new right-wing propaganda like Nazis are socialists socialists are communists etc etc. Cold War dinosaur dupes... While yourgreedy idiot rich heroes brainwash you and Rob you blind, dumbasses.

 

[francoHFW]

You must have gotten that masters from a Cracker Jack box. My DOG knows more history than you.

You are historically illiterate.

It's sad that this traitor ignoramus was allowed to teach his filth to children.

It's mind rape.

Public schools crush the ability to reason and punish critical thinking. Children recite by rote any bullshit the mind rapists ejaculate into their unformed conscience.

The schools follow the theories of Pavlov to turn thinking humans into drones conditioned to react to triggers.

It's mind rape.

Public schools crush the ability to reason and punish critical thinking. Children recite by rote any bullshit the mind rapists ejaculate into their unformed conscience.

The schools follow the theories of Pavlov to turn thinking humans into drones conditioned to react to triggers.

Who gets rich from that form of education? Capitalists who rely on a labor force reduced to the status of a commodity, or those who recognize capitalism has outlived any usefulness it ever possessed, and the time has come for the next evolutionary economic stage?

Historical materialism - Wikipedia

Capitalists who rely on a labor force reduced to the status of a commodity,

What was the work force in the gulag?
What's the level below commodity?

He has absolutely no idea what he is posting.
I'm starting to wonder if this guy is a bot.

Another idiotic conspiracy theory, dumbass chump. You people are hilarious LOL

 

[Tehon]

Actually, dunce, I have a master's in history a lot of 20th century.of course lenin ruled from the top and the Soviets took orders and watched people. Saying that Lenin was really Democratic is idiocy. That was Soviet propaganda. People figured it out and then smart people stopped calling communism socialism. It is a right-wing thing. right wing propaganda Loves confusing socialism and communism and Marxism and now Nazism even. No connection to reality at all. Now everyone outside the GOP bubble Of BS knows it.

You must have gotten that masters from a Cracker Jack box. My DOG knows more history than you.

You are historically illiterate.

It's sad that this traitor ignoramus was allowed to teach his filth to children.

So Lenin was a great hero of democracy LOL you're absolutely out of your mind, super duper. Everything you know is wrong LOL.

The Structure of the Soviet State

 

[francoHFW]

Actually, dunce, I have a master's in history a lot of 20th century.of course lenin ruled from the top and the Soviets took orders and watched people. Saying that Lenin was really Democratic is idiocy. That was Soviet propaganda. People figured it out and then smart people stopped calling communism socialism. It is a right-wing thing. right wing propaganda Loves confusing socialism and communism and Marxism and now Nazism even. No connection to reality at all. Now everyone outside the GOP bubble Of BS knows it.

You must have gotten that masters from a Cracker Jack box. My DOG knows more history than you.

You are historically illiterate.

It's sad that this traitor ignoramus was allowed to teach his filth to children.

So Lenin was a great hero of democracy LOL you're absolutely out of your mind, super duper. Everything you know is wrong LOL.

The Structure of the Soviet State

John Reed hoped...

 

[Tehon]

I'm afraid their meaning of socialism is confused like most Americans... It is the bastion of democracy and Cold War beliefs after all. And besides that now they have the GOP propaganda machine everywhere. A whole new set of facts LOL to confuse people with.

Oh, and what do you think the meaning of socialism is, Comrade?

All that is good?

Like Wikipedia and every real history book you'll ever not read, I believe that there have been three evolving definitions of socialism. First the theoretical Marxist definition, secondly the USSR and it's supposed somewhat Democratic and capitalistic Outlook, revealed to be spurious in the twenties and thirties, and the modern definition of democratic socialism, that is fair capitalism with a good safety net that is the type of government and economy of the modern world. With the United States and it's GOP rip off of the non rich I would say just outside. The next time the Democrats get in with 60 votes in the Senate we will have universal Health Care and Democratic socialism. And shove your GOP BS fear-mongering about communism up your ass. GOP Dupe voters are the stupidest voters in the modern world. The GOP giveaway to the rich and screwing the country and the non Rich has given us the worst inequality and upward Mobility ever and in the modern world by far, dumbass chumps of the greedy idiot rich --change the channel.

You are the second type, the bourgeois socialist.


24 —
How do communists differ from socialists?
The so-called socialists are divided into three categories.


[ Reactionary Socialists: ]
The first category consists of adherents of a feudal and patriarchal society which has already been destroyed, and is still daily being destroyed, by big industry and world trade and their creation, bourgeois society. This category concludes, from the evils of existing society, that feudal and patriarchal society must be restored because it was free of such evils. In one way or another, all their proposals are directed to this end.

This category of reactionary socialists, for all their seeming partisanship and their scalding tears for the misery of the proletariat, is nevertheless energetically opposed by the communists for the following reasons:

(i) It strives for something which is entirely impossible.

(ii) It seeks to establish the rule of the aristocracy, the guildmasters, the small producers, and their retinue of absolute or feudal monarchs, officials, soldiers, and priests – a society which was, to be sure, free of the evils of present-day society but which brought it at least as many evils without even offering to the oppressed workers the prospect of liberation through a communist revolution.

(iii) As soon as the proletariat becomes revolutionary and communist, these reactionary socialists show their true colors by immediately making common cause with the bourgeoisie against the proletarians.


[ Bourgeois Socialists: ]
The second category consists of adherents of present-day society who have been frightened for its future by the evils to which it necessarily gives rise. What they want, therefore, is to maintain this society while getting rid of the evils which are an inherent part of it.

To this end, some propose mere welfare measures – while others come forward with grandiose systems of reform which, under the pretense of re-organizing society, are in fact intended to preserve the foundations, and hence the life, of existing society.

Communists must unremittingly struggle against these bourgeois socialists because they work for the enemies of communists and protect the society which communists aim to overthrow.


[ Democratic Socialists: ]
Finally, the third category consists of democratic socialists who favor some of the same measures the communists advocate, as described in Question 18, not as part of the transition to communism, however, but as measures which they believe will be sufficient to abolish the misery and evils of present-day society.

These democratic socialists are either proletarians who are not yet sufficiently clear about the conditions of the liberation of their class, or they are representatives of the petty bourgeoisie, a class which, prior to the achievement of democracy and the socialist measures to which it gives rise, has many interests in common with the proletariat.

It follows that, in moments of action, the communists will have to come to an understanding with these democratic socialists, and in general to follow as far as possible a common policy with them – provided that these socialists do not enter into the service of the ruling bourgeoisie and attack the communists.

It is clear that this form of co-operation in action does not exclude the discussion of differences.

The Principles of Communism

 

[Tehon]

Actually, dunce, I have a master's in history a lot of 20th century.of course lenin ruled from the top and the Soviets took orders and watched people. Saying that Lenin was really Democratic is idiocy. That was Soviet propaganda. People figured it out and then smart people stopped calling communism socialism. It is a right-wing thing. right wing propaganda Loves confusing socialism and communism and Marxism and now Nazism even. No connection to reality at all. Now everyone outside the GOP bubble Of BS knows it.

You must have gotten that masters from a Cracker Jack box. My DOG knows more history than you.

You are historically illiterate.

It's sad that this traitor ignoramus was allowed to teach his filth to children.

So Lenin was a great hero of democracy LOL you're absolutely out of your mind, super duper. Everything you know is wrong LOL.

The Structure of the Soviet State

John Reed hoped...

He was there, were you?

 

[francoHFW]

/lit/ - Literature - Search:

You can say that, but it doesn't change that what she wrote in Atlas Shrugged, has happened in real life. So you can say she is full of crap until you pass out.... doesn't change the fact that she has been proven right over and over again.

You can say that, but it doesn't change that what she wrote in Atlas Shrugged, has happened in real life. So you can say she is full of crap until you pass out.... doesn't change the fact that she has been proven right over and over again

The Virtue of Stupidity: A Critique of Ayn Rand and Objectivism

You can also say her cult of Objectivism appeals more to religious bigots than anyone who's seriously searching for objective reality.

You seem to think that selecting a larger text size, somehow magically creates credibility to what you type.

You remind me of the guy that hasn't had a date in his life, but buys a sports car. Trying to compensate for something there sparky?

Regardless.... I don't understand why you keep posting stuff, that I don't care about. No matter how big your font size is, and no matter how many lame links you post.... the fact remains that we have seen Atlas Shrugged play out in real life. Rand was right. (not on everything, but on economics, she was right).

"What Happens When You Believe in Ayn Rand and Modern Economic Theory
The reality of unfettered self-interest"

What Happens When You Believe in Ayn Rand and Modern Economic Theory - Evonomics

And yet you still can't argue against the fact that what she said would happen, happened.

Bologna. And what was that, dingbat?

 

[francoHFW]

You must have gotten that masters from a Cracker Jack box. My DOG knows more history than you.

You are historically illiterate.

It's sad that this traitor ignoramus was allowed to teach his filth to children.

So Lenin was a great hero of democracy LOL you're absolutely out of your mind, super duper. Everything you know is wrong LOL.

The Structure of the Soviet State

John Reed hoped...

He was there, were you?

He was wrong, as events proved. The Bolsheviks were total assholes.

 

[francoHFW]

I'm afraid their meaning of socialism is confused like most Americans... It is the bastion of democracy and Cold War beliefs after all. And besides that now they have the GOP propaganda machine everywhere. A whole new set of facts LOL to confuse people with.

Oh, and what do you think the meaning of socialism is, Comrade?

All that is good?

Like Wikipedia and every real history book you'll ever not read, I believe that there have been three evolving definitions of socialism. First the theoretical Marxist definition, secondly the USSR and it's supposed somewhat Democratic and capitalistic Outlook, revealed to be spurious in the twenties and thirties, and the modern definition of democratic socialism, that is fair capitalism with a good safety net that is the type of government and economy of the modern world. With the United States and it's GOP rip off of the non rich I would say just outside. The next time the Democrats get in with 60 votes in the Senate we will have universal Health Care and Democratic socialism. And shove your GOP BS fear-mongering about communism up your ass. GOP Dupe voters are the stupidest voters in the modern world. The GOP giveaway to the rich and screwing the country and the non Rich has given us the worst inequality and upward Mobility ever and in the modern world by far, dumbass chumps of the greedy idiot rich --change the channel.

You are the second type, the bourgeois socialist.


24 —
How do communists differ from socialists?
The so-called socialists are divided into three categories.


[ Reactionary Socialists: ]
The first category consists of adherents of a feudal and patriarchal society which has already been destroyed, and is still daily being destroyed, by big industry and world trade and their creation, bourgeois society. This category concludes, from the evils of existing society, that feudal and patriarchal society must be restored because it was free of such evils. In one way or another, all their proposals are directed to this end.

This category of reactionary socialists, for all their seeming partisanship and their scalding tears for the misery of the proletariat, is nevertheless energetically opposed by the communists for the following reasons:

(i) It strives for something which is entirely impossible.

(ii) It seeks to establish the rule of the aristocracy, the guildmasters, the small producers, and their retinue of absolute or feudal monarchs, officials, soldiers, and priests – a society which was, to be sure, free of the evils of present-day society but which brought it at least as many evils without even offering to the oppressed workers the prospect of liberation through a communist revolution.

(iii) As soon as the proletariat becomes revolutionary and communist, these reactionary socialists show their true colors by immediately making common cause with the bourgeoisie against the proletarians.


[ Bourgeois Socialists: ]
The second category consists of adherents of present-day society who have been frightened for its future by the evils to which it necessarily gives rise. What they want, therefore, is to maintain this society while getting rid of the evils which are an inherent part of it.

To this end, some propose mere welfare measures – while others come forward with grandiose systems of reform which, under the pretense of re-organizing society, are in fact intended to preserve the foundations, and hence the life, of existing society.

Communists must unremittingly struggle against these bourgeois socialists because they work for the enemies of communists and protect the society which communists aim to overthrow.


[ Democratic Socialists: ]
Finally, the third category consists of democratic socialists who favor some of the same measures the communists advocate, as described in Question 18, not as part of the transition to communism, however, but as measures which they believe will be sufficient to abolish the misery and evils of present-day society.

These democratic socialists are either proletarians who are not yet sufficiently clear about the conditions of the liberation of their class, or they are representatives of the petty bourgeoisie, a class which, prior to the achievement of democracy and the socialist measures to which it gives rise, has many interests in common with the proletariat.

It follows that, in moments of action, the communists will have to come to an understanding with these democratic socialists, and in general to follow as far as possible a common policy with them – provided that these socialists do not enter into the service of the ruling bourgeoisie and attack the communists.

It is clear that this form of co-operation in action does not exclude the discussion of differences.

The Principles of Communism

And you are stuck in Marxist ideology and the early stages of the USSR before the Bolsheviks turned it into a nightmare. And then Stalin made it even worse. Give up on communism for crying out loud LOL...