Who's to Blame: Big Government or Big Business?

[bripat9643]

The reason the TP'ers failed to accomplish their stated goals is because they are far more interested in pursuing their partisan agenda than their principles. Taking down "RINOs" is yet another fool's errand. All of those RINOs backed the insanity of the TP'ers when they shut down the government and you you intend to repay them by throwing them out of office? That is called a betrayal and that is why the establishment GOP now sees the TP as a threat instead of an ally

.

Principles................The TEA Party principles are right in line with their stated principles......Less Gov't, and full repeal of Obamacare..............

Those "principles" are just LIBERTARIAN dogma!.

They are common sense, in other words.

The goals of eliminating corruption and reducing spending were SACRIFICED on the partisan alter of unrealistic libertarian idealism which is why the Tea Party ended up being rejected by We the People.

The corruption issue is a red herring. It's a side issue. You harp on solely so you have an excuse to harp on the TEA party. Spending is the big issue, and turds like you have opposed the TEA party at every step.

In essence you are calling everyone a RINO who doesn't embrace extremist Libertarianism. Your real agenda is to hijack the GOP and turn it into the Libertarian Party instead. No wonder there is a civil war inside the Republican party.

But thanks for being honest. I do appreciate knowing where you actually stand politically speaking.

Yeah, cutting spending by even 1% is "extremist." That's what all the squealing about the sequester showed. Libturds simply have no credibility when it comes to calling their critics "extremists."

 

[bripat9643]

It don't think its grass roots are bad.
Like a few leftist organizations, possibly including OWS, the Tea Party is vulnerable to capture from above by unseen economic elites.
By injecting third party candidates into the US Congress, we could begin a process that would limit the amount of influence Big Money has on our federal government; however, it's a valid question as to the influence wealth would have on the new members of the House and Senate.

Yeah, let's introduce a flood of leftwing third party candidates.

That might be the only way for Republicans to remain relevant.

"Right-wing[edit]
This section includes any party that advocates positions associated with American conservatism, including both Old Right and New Right tendencies.

"America First Party
Christian Liberty Party
America's Party
Independent American Party"

Tell me what doesn't Change if one hundred Democrats AND one hundred Republicans are FLUSHED from DC in a single news cycle next November?

Third party (United States) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If that could be accomplished at the push of a button, I would be first in line to push it. However, we both know that voting third party is only going to get the Democrat or Republican you prefer defeated.

 

[bripat9643]

The Tea Party goals of reducing corruption and spending are great in principle. In practice they have focused on petty partisan politics and destroyed their credibility. Hence their low ratings by We the People.

The claim that turds like you want to reduce spending simply isn't believable. The main reason you oppose the TEA party is the fact that they have actually tried to cut spending. That's what you are calling "partisan politics."

Or maybe the Tea Party proves its partisan politics by which aspects of government spending it wants to cut and which 1% of American citizens it wants to protect from paying higher taxes?

Has it even said what parts of government it wants to cut? The TEA party supported the sequester, which cut everything, and it cut defense spending the most. So it appears the TEA Party's critics are the partisans.

 

[OnePercenter]

Sure less taxes for everyone.

Because the richest 0.1% need more money?

"This carried interest loophole benefits managers of financial partnerships such as hedge funds, private equity funds, venture capital funds and real estate funds — who are among the highest-paid people in the world.

"John Paulson, a hedge fund manager in New York City, made $4.9 billion last year, top of the chart for hedge fund managers, according to AR Magazine, which follows hedge funds.

"That’s equivalent to the average per capita income of 184,000 Americans, according to my back-of-envelope calculations based on Census Bureau figures.

"Mr. Paulson declined to comment on this tax break, but here’s how it works. These fund managers are compensated mostly with a performance bonus of 20 percent or more of the profits they make.

"Under this carried interest loophole, that 20 percent is eligible to be taxed at the long-term capital gains rate (if the fund’s underlying assets are held long enough) of just 15 percent rather than the regular personal income rate of 35 percent."

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/07/opinion/07kristof.html?_r=0

Where did you get the idea that the federal government is authorized to decide how much money you have? Oh, and why shouldn't a capital gain be treated like a capital gain?

Extra income?

 

[georgephillip]

The claim that turds like you want to reduce spending simply isn't believable. The main reason you oppose the TEA party is the fact that they have actually tried to cut spending. That's what you are calling "partisan politics."

Or maybe the Tea Party proves its partisan politics by which aspects of government spending it wants to cut and which 1% of American citizens it wants to protect from paying higher taxes?

That is a straw man argument. That is the classic example of Using Class Warfare strategies in politics.........................

While I don't speak for the TEA Party itself, I have time and time again proposed spending cuts across the board which would include the military. I have used Historical data in order to do so............ And historically our revenues have been approximately 18 % of the GDP irregardless of tax rates since WWII.......With small spikes over time.........

We are now spending at a rate of nearly 25% of the GDP which is unsustainable...........

I have proposed Flat tax rates with no deductions. Getting Rid of the current Loop Holes that so many use across the range of incomes to pay less, not at all, or etc.............

In other words the KISS PRINCIPLE..........Keep It Simple Stupid............

A whole different thread which has been pounded on time and time again.

While I openly condemn the markets and currency manipulation I DO NOT TRASH ALL who make a lot of money...........That is BS.........

If they made it HONEST, then they earned it. If they made it through USURPERY then they can kiss my butt.

IMHO, you're confusing the concrete historical fact of class war with an attempt to create an illusion of denying a superficially similar yet inequivalent proposition. The 0.001% of US citizens who control the US money supply have no doubt about the existence of a class war that has been going on for thousands of years; probably since the first private fortunes lurched into existence, underwritten by human chattel slavery. The reason we are now spending at nearly 25% of GDP is due to our oligarchs nearly crashing the global economy in 2008. Neither minion of Big Government/Business, Republicans NOR Democrats, has done anything to prosecute those responsible for the Great Recession or ensure the next CRASH won't be even louder. Oligarchy or Democracy: you can't make the right choice without recognizing the class war that creates the choice in the first place.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Because the richest 0.1% need more money?

"This carried interest loophole benefits managers of financial partnerships such as hedge funds, private equity funds, venture capital funds and real estate funds — who are among the highest-paid people in the world.

"John Paulson, a hedge fund manager in New York City, made $4.9 billion last year, top of the chart for hedge fund managers, according to AR Magazine, which follows hedge funds.

"That’s equivalent to the average per capita income of 184,000 Americans, according to my back-of-envelope calculations based on Census Bureau figures.

"Mr. Paulson declined to comment on this tax break, but here’s how it works. These fund managers are compensated mostly with a performance bonus of 20 percent or more of the profits they make.

"Under this carried interest loophole, that 20 percent is eligible to be taxed at the long-term capital gains rate (if the fund’s underlying assets are held long enough) of just 15 percent rather than the regular personal income rate of 35 percent."

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/07/opinion/07kristof.html?_r=0

Where did you get the idea that the federal government is authorized to decide how much money you have? Oh, and why shouldn't a capital gain be treated like a capital gain?

Extra income?

Why should capital gains be given special treatment at a lower tax rate? It isn't as though it is income earned through hard work. The people who did all the work to increase the value of the capital should not be taxed at a higher rate than the person who just loaned out some spare cash that he had lying around.

 

[georgephillip]

Yeah, let's introduce a flood of leftwing third party candidates.

That might be the only way for Republicans to remain relevant.

"Right-wing[edit]
This section includes any party that advocates positions associated with American conservatism, including both Old Right and New Right tendencies.

"America First Party
Christian Liberty Party
America's Party
Independent American Party"

Tell me what doesn't Change if one hundred Democrats AND one hundred Republicans are FLUSHED from DC in a single news cycle next November?

Third party (United States) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If that could be accomplished at the push of a button, I would be first in line to push it. However, we both know that voting third party is only going to get the Democrat or Republican you prefer defeated.

That's more true for presidential candidates than for congressional ones, IMHO.
What I think your missing is the power of the tool we are communicating with at this very moment. Internet based social networking has the potential to convince millions of us to select our congressional representatives from established third party candidates that already appear on our ballots next November. For those without third party candidates on their ballots, they would have to bite the bullet and vote against their incumbents in DC even if that meant voting for a party they've never supported before.

 

[OnePercenter]

Where did you get the idea that the federal government is authorized to decide how much money you have? Oh, and why shouldn't a capital gain be treated like a capital gain?

Extra income?

Why should capital gains be given special treatment at a lower tax rate? It isn't as though it is income earned through hard work. The people who did all the work to increase the value of the capital should not be taxed at a higher rate than the person who just loaned out some spare cash that he had lying around.

The majority of capital gains is gained by rich people. Capital gains rules were written during Republican majorities.

 

[Intense]

According to Einstein, we are asking the wrong question.

"Who’s to Blame … Big Government or Big Business?

"Conservatives tend to believe that the captains of industry are virtuous and that the government can’t be trusted.

"Liberals tend to believe that government servants are virtuous and that corporations can’t be trusted.

"But the truth is that psychopaths are psychopaths … whether they’re in the private sector or government.

"And there is no such thing as representative government or free market capitalism anymore. Big corporate money has coopted the government; and ill-guided politicians have destroyed the free market."

Al also supplied one possible answer to this (False) dilemma:

"Albert Einstein said:

"A foolish faith in authority is the worst enemy of the truth.

"Indeed, scientists have shown that people will go to absurd lengths - and engage in mental gymnastics – in order to cling to their belief in what those in authority have said.

"Part of the reason so many are so vulnerable to naive belief in authority is that we evolved in small tribes … and we assume that the super-elites are just like us.

"In reality, there are millions of psychopaths in the world … and they are largely running D.C. and on Wall Street."

Albert Einstein: ?A Foolish Faith In Authority Is The Worst Enemy Of The Truth? | Global Research

FLUSH the DC toilet in 2014!

It's like you are comparing different types of sharks in a shark tank. The World is a bigger place than that. There is more out there than predators. There is good and bad in most every camp. Most sound people are not impressed by injustice. That's always a good place to start when trying to effect change. Part of the key here is to Not compound the problem with poorly thought out so called solutions. Baby steps.

 

[georgephillip]

According to Einstein, we are asking the wrong question.

"Who’s to Blame … Big Government or Big Business?

"Conservatives tend to believe that the captains of industry are virtuous and that the government can’t be trusted.

"Liberals tend to believe that government servants are virtuous and that corporations can’t be trusted.

"But the truth is that psychopaths are psychopaths … whether they’re in the private sector or government.

"And there is no such thing as representative government or free market capitalism anymore. Big corporate money has coopted the government; and ill-guided politicians have destroyed the free market."

Al also supplied one possible answer to this (False) dilemma:

"Albert Einstein said:

"A foolish faith in authority is the worst enemy of the truth.

"Indeed, scientists have shown that people will go to absurd lengths - and engage in mental gymnastics – in order to cling to their belief in what those in authority have said.

"Part of the reason so many are so vulnerable to naive belief in authority is that we evolved in small tribes … and we assume that the super-elites are just like us.

"In reality, there are millions of psychopaths in the world … and they are largely running D.C. and on Wall Street."

Albert Einstein: ?A Foolish Faith In Authority Is The Worst Enemy Of The Truth? | Global Research

FLUSH the DC toilet in 2014!

It's like you are comparing different types of sharks in a shark tank. The World is a bigger place than that. There is more out there than predators. There is good and bad in most every camp. Most sound people are not impressed by injustice. That's always a good place to start when trying to effect change. Part of the key here is to Not compound the problem with poorly thought out so called solutions. Baby steps.

Are the inmates running the asylum?

If it's true that 4% of Americans qualify as conscienceless sociopaths, then we have 12 million citizens of the US with no empathy or affectionate feelings for human beings or other animals.

The most brilliant of those sociopaths attend the finest universities, and some come from elite families. They aren't waiting at the end of your block to beat you like a rented mule and pilfer your pockets; they lurk on Wall Street and in DC and they "succeed" by stealing your pension and house (and freedom).

Elected Republicans AND Democrats currently depend on 1% of US voters to fund their election campaigns and retirements. That same one percent depend on sociopaths on Wall Street to manage their wealth. I don't see how you solve this problem by voting for the lessor predator in DC?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

According to Einstein, we are asking the wrong question.

"Who’s to Blame … Big Government or Big Business?

"Conservatives tend to believe that the captains of industry are virtuous and that the government can’t be trusted.

"Liberals tend to believe that government servants are virtuous and that corporations can’t be trusted.

I can tell you one thing: you sir are NO Einstein

Neither of your statements are true

 

[bripat9643]

Extra income?

Why should capital gains be given special treatment at a lower tax rate? It isn't as though it is income earned through hard work. The people who did all the work to increase the value of the capital should not be taxed at a higher rate than the person who just loaned out some spare cash that he had lying around.

The majority of capital gains is gained by rich people. Capital gains rules were written during Republican majorities.

The last cut in the capital gains tax was signed by Bill Clinton.

 

[georgephillip]

According to Einstein, we are asking the wrong question.

"Who’s to Blame … Big Government or Big Business?

"Conservatives tend to believe that the captains of industry are virtuous and that the government can’t be trusted.

"Liberals tend to believe that government servants are virtuous and that corporations can’t be trusted.

I can tell you one thing: you sir are NO Einstein

Neither of your statements are true

"The Assistant Secretary of Defense for Public Affairs told Morley Safer of 60 Minutes and CBS News:
Look, if you think any American official is going to tell you the truth, then you’re stupid. Did you hear that? — stupid"

Albert Einstein: ?A Foolish Faith In Authority Is The Worst Enemy Of The Truth? | Global Research

 

[jc456]

According to Einstein, we are asking the wrong question.

"Who’s to Blame … Big Government or Big Business?

"Conservatives tend to believe that the captains of industry are virtuous and that the government can’t be trusted.

"Liberals tend to believe that government servants are virtuous and that corporations can’t be trusted.

"But the truth is that psychopaths are psychopaths … whether they’re in the private sector or government.

"And there is no such thing as representative government or free market capitalism anymore. Big corporate money has coopted the government; and ill-guided politicians have destroyed the free market."

Al also supplied one possible answer to this (False) dilemma:

"Albert Einstein said:

"A foolish faith in authority is the worst enemy of the truth.

"Indeed, scientists have shown that people will go to absurd lengths - and engage in mental gymnastics – in order to cling to their belief in what those in authority have said.

"Part of the reason so many are so vulnerable to naive belief in authority is that we evolved in small tribes … and we assume that the super-elites are just like us.

"In reality, there are millions of psychopaths in the world … and they are largely running D.C. and on Wall Street."

Albert Einstein: ?A Foolish Faith In Authority Is The Worst Enemy Of The Truth? | Global Research

FLUSH the DC toilet in 2014!

So are unions a business? I would say that public Union money is more detrimental to our policies in DC than any big corporation. Any.

 

[bripat9643]

Extra income?

Why should capital gains be given special treatment at a lower tax rate? It isn't as though it is income earned through hard work. The people who did all the work to increase the value of the capital should not be taxed at a higher rate than the person who just loaned out some spare cash that he had lying around.

The majority of capital gains is gained by rich people. Capital gains rules were written during Republican majorities.

In other words, envy is the justification.

 

[Derideo_Te]

According to Einstein, we are asking the wrong question.

"Who’s to Blame … Big Government or Big Business?

"Conservatives tend to believe that the captains of industry are virtuous and that the government can’t be trusted.

"Liberals tend to believe that government servants are virtuous and that corporations can’t be trusted.

"But the truth is that psychopaths are psychopaths … whether they’re in the private sector or government.

"And there is no such thing as representative government or free market capitalism anymore. Big corporate money has coopted the government; and ill-guided politicians have destroyed the free market."

Al also supplied one possible answer to this (False) dilemma:

"Albert Einstein said:

"A foolish faith in authority is the worst enemy of the truth.

"Indeed, scientists have shown that people will go to absurd lengths - and engage in mental gymnastics – in order to cling to their belief in what those in authority have said.

"Part of the reason so many are so vulnerable to naive belief in authority is that we evolved in small tribes … and we assume that the super-elites are just like us.

"In reality, there are millions of psychopaths in the world … and they are largely running D.C. and on Wall Street."

Albert Einstein: ?A Foolish Faith In Authority Is The Worst Enemy Of The Truth? | Global Research

FLUSH the DC toilet in 2014!

So are unions a business? I would say that public Union money is more detrimental to our policies in DC than any big corporation. Any.

Teddy Rooseveldt said that you are wrong in that regard.

 

[bripat9643]

According to Einstein, we are asking the wrong question.

"Who’s to Blame … Big Government or Big Business?

"Conservatives tend to believe that the captains of industry are virtuous and that the government can’t be trusted.

"Liberals tend to believe that government servants are virtuous and that corporations can’t be trusted.

"But the truth is that psychopaths are psychopaths … whether they’re in the private sector or government.

"And there is no such thing as representative government or free market capitalism anymore. Big corporate money has coopted the government; and ill-guided politicians have destroyed the free market."

Al also supplied one possible answer to this (False) dilemma:

"Albert Einstein said:

"A foolish faith in authority is the worst enemy of the truth.

"Indeed, scientists have shown that people will go to absurd lengths - and engage in mental gymnastics – in order to cling to their belief in what those in authority have said.

"Part of the reason so many are so vulnerable to naive belief in authority is that we evolved in small tribes … and we assume that the super-elites are just like us.

"In reality, there are millions of psychopaths in the world … and they are largely running D.C. and on Wall Street."

Albert Einstein: ?A Foolish Faith In Authority Is The Worst Enemy Of The Truth? | Global Research

FLUSH the DC toilet in 2014!

So are unions a business? I would say that public Union money is more detrimental to our policies in DC than any big corporation. Any.

Teddy Rooseveldt said that you are wrong in that regard.

Teddy Roosevelt was a goose-stepping jackass.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

According to Einstein, we are asking the wrong question.

"Who’s to Blame … Big Government or Big Business?

"Conservatives tend to believe that the captains of industry are virtuous and that the government can’t be trusted.

"Liberals tend to believe that government servants are virtuous and that corporations can’t be trusted.

I can tell you one thing: you sir are NO Einstein

Neither of your statements are true

"The Assistant Secretary of Defense for Public Affairs told Morley Safer of 60 Minutes and CBS News:
Look, if you think any American official is going to tell you the truth, then you’re stupid. Did you hear that? — stupid"

Albert Einstein: ?A Foolish Faith In Authority Is The Worst Enemy Of The Truth? | Global Research

You too like others confused about words and terms and how they are used in specific contexts?

"Faith in authority" no one I know has 'faith' in authority. Not these days.

context: Speaking to Reporters/The Press - The Vietnam War and the year 1966(?) Has Morley Safer Ever Told John Miller This Story?: "Look, If You Think Any American Official Is Going to Tell You the Truth, Then You're Stupid" | MichaelMoore.com

ABOUT THE ARTICLE

Arthur Sylvester, assistant secretary of defense in charge of public affairs, said Wednesday that no government official should lie when giving out information about the country.

He said it was all right to withhold information to safeguard the country. He was testifying before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. This article is one correspondent's report of Sylvester's statement about truth in public affairs one year ago.

THIS article is excerpted from "Dateline 1966: Covering War," a publication of the Overseas Press Club of America.

---

your lack of critical thinking skills is frightening

 

[Dragonlady]

The Tea Party started as a populist movement to oppose big government, but it's been co-opted and funded by the Koch Brothers and has become a tool of an extremist right wing, anti-union agenda to oppose any new taxes on the wealthy.

 

[bripat9643]

The Tea Party started as a populist movement to oppose big government, but it's been co-opted and funded by the Koch Brothers and has become a tool of an extremist right wing, anti-union agenda to oppose any new taxes on the wealthy.

In other words it opposes big government. Did you think people who oppose big government support more revenue for the government and big unions?

BTW, the Koch brothers also oppose big government.

This pretension that you can support the TEA Party but also support tax increases and big unions is entertaining.