Who's to Blame: Big Government or Big Business?

[Derideo_Te]

The Government is taking in more revenue than it ever has. Revenue is not the problem....spending is. Both parties have responsibility in this area. U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time


The U.S. Government is issuing more regulation under Obama than any President in U.S. History.


"President Obama is “shattering all records” for imposing costly regulations on business, and Senate Democrats’ elimination of the filibuster to oppose presidential nominees will only worsen the problem, U.S. Chamber of Commerce President Thomas J. Donohue said Tuesday."



Chamber chief laments 'avalanche' of Obama regulations - Washington Times


Since you wanted links there you go. Government needs massive reform, we both agree. Oversight is impossible when Government officials lie to Congress and we the people as a matter of administration policy.

The problem is BOTH spending and revenue. If you don't want to address both then this is pointless. BTW the Moonie Times is not a credible source.

 

[Kosh]

It is funny to watch the far left posters who quote the far left Dogma on a regular basis claim they do not trust government. The far left does not trust government when the (R)'s control any part of the branch of government, otherwise they have no problems with far left controlling all of the government. If they didn't they would not vote far left religiously.

More damage has been done with the far left in charge than any other group.

Times of great prosperity in this country is when the government and businesses work together, when the government goes against businesses (like what is happening now) then you see the end result.

Balance is needed and blame falls on those that are corrupt in government and big business. The difference between the two is that a corrupt CEO can do jail time and be prosecuted, unlike the bulk of the politicians who make the laws.

So based on that government is more at fault as they rule with impunity.

To the far left you either vote for their guy or don't vote, that is the mantra. When you have two corrupt parties and the belief is there is only two choices, why vote at all when you see neither party doing what is right for the people. It seems that more choices should be available as the system was setup to allow anyone to run as president. Well that was until the rich elites made it monetarily impossible for just anyone to run.

 

[occupied]

It is funny to watch the far left posters who quote the far left Dogma on a regular basis claim they do not trust government. The far left does not trust government when the (R)'s control any part of the branch of government, otherwise they have no problems with far left controlling all of the government. If they didn't they would not vote far left religiously.

More damage has been done with the far left in charge than any other group.

Times of great prosperity in this country is when the government and businesses work together, when the government goes against businesses (like what is happening now) then you see the end result.

Balance is needed and blame falls on those that are corrupt in government and big business. The difference between the two is that a corrupt CEO can do jail time and be prosecuted, unlike the bulk of the politicians who make the laws.

So based on that government is more at fault as they rule with impunity.

To the far left you either vote for their guy or don't vote, that is the mantra. When you have two corrupt parties and the belief is there is only two choices, why vote at all when you see neither party doing what is right for the people. It seems that more choices should be available as the system was setup to allow anyone to run as president. Well that was until the rich elites made it monetarily impossible for just anyone to run.

If you think government is going against business right now then you are just not paying attention, giving us the business is far more accurate. The pentagon got all it's funding back and then some, almost no progress has been made to make sure 2008 never happens again and Wall street had another record year while jobs remain slow to recover. No, the government reflects the will of the people, in this case the big corporate person, and what we have is a reflection of big business's regard for us the citizen/consumer.

 

[Kosh]

It is funny to watch the far left posters who quote the far left Dogma on a regular basis claim they do not trust government. The far left does not trust government when the (R)'s control any part of the branch of government, otherwise they have no problems with far left controlling all of the government. If they didn't they would not vote far left religiously.

More damage has been done with the far left in charge than any other group.

Times of great prosperity in this country is when the government and businesses work together, when the government goes against businesses (like what is happening now) then you see the end result.

Balance is needed and blame falls on those that are corrupt in government and big business. The difference between the two is that a corrupt CEO can do jail time and be prosecuted, unlike the bulk of the politicians who make the laws.

So based on that government is more at fault as they rule with impunity.

To the far left you either vote for their guy or don't vote, that is the mantra. When you have two corrupt parties and the belief is there is only two choices, why vote at all when you see neither party doing what is right for the people. It seems that more choices should be available as the system was setup to allow anyone to run as president. Well that was until the rich elites made it monetarily impossible for just anyone to run.

If you think government is going against business right now then you are just not paying attention, giving us the business is far more accurate. The pentagon got all it's funding back and then some, almost no progress has been made to make sure 2008 never happens again and Wall street had another record year while jobs remain slow to recover. No, the government reflects the will of the people, in this case the big corporate person, and what we have is a reflection of big business's regard for us the citizen/consumer.

And I love it when the far left proves my points with their religious dogma.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Shelly Adelson can't fine people for not playing at his casinos.

 

[occupied]

It is funny to watch the far left posters who quote the far left Dogma on a regular basis claim they do not trust government. The far left does not trust government when the (R)'s control any part of the branch of government, otherwise they have no problems with far left controlling all of the government. If they didn't they would not vote far left religiously.

More damage has been done with the far left in charge than any other group.

Times of great prosperity in this country is when the government and businesses work together, when the government goes against businesses (like what is happening now) then you see the end result.

Balance is needed and blame falls on those that are corrupt in government and big business. The difference between the two is that a corrupt CEO can do jail time and be prosecuted, unlike the bulk of the politicians who make the laws.

So based on that government is more at fault as they rule with impunity.

To the far left you either vote for their guy or don't vote, that is the mantra. When you have two corrupt parties and the belief is there is only two choices, why vote at all when you see neither party doing what is right for the people. It seems that more choices should be available as the system was setup to allow anyone to run as president. Well that was until the rich elites made it monetarily impossible for just anyone to run.

If you think government is going against business right now then you are just not paying attention, giving us the business is far more accurate. The pentagon got all it's funding back and then some, almost no progress has been made to make sure 2008 never happens again and Wall street had another record year while jobs remain slow to recover. No, the government reflects the will of the people, in this case the big corporate person, and what we have is a reflection of big business's regard for us the citizen/consumer.

And I love it when the far left proves my points with their religious dogma.

Yeah and it just makes me sad when a conservative can't look past their partisan prejudice to see exactly who is ass-raping them.

 

[WelfareQueen]

Because the government at least has the potential to act in the interests of the people and often does. It's when they start acting in the interests of the already powerful that the real problems occur, changing the banking laws to accommodate too-big-to-fail, or failing to prosecute the resultant banking fraud, for instance. They are the only handle the regular person has on the independently powerful for a redress of grievances, without them we might as well just be a feudal society serving the rich as powerless serfs.

Okay...I kinda of agree in a very qualified way...although business can and does occasionally do some good in the community. But your response still doesn't get to the issue of trust.

Why do you implicitly trust Government more than Business? Is it because with Government theoretically you can redress grievances? (Really, only if you have a lot of money, time, and lawyers. You can do the same with business). You can also redress a grievance with business by not shopping with them anymore.

I am not seeing any reason to trust Government any more than business. Both are completely in bed with the other. Neither really gives a shit about the powerless and never has. IMO if liberal leaning folks were as skeptical about Government as the rest of us, America would be a far better place. But to be fair, I applaud liberals regarding their skepticism of big business. That has truly helped America. But the skepticism regarding both entities should be equal. It is certainly equally deserved.

I do not trust the government at all because I believe that we as a people have been betrayed into accepting a plutocracy and calling it capitalism, some even concider it a patriotic duty to allow the financially powerful as much freedom as possible to exploit us, so they will create more jobs I suppose. Look at what happens when people band together to call on the government to do something about the plutocrat problem (OWS), they get the riot police. Now look at what happens when people band together to say hands off big business lower the capital gains, slash corporate taxes and regs, they get congressmen elected. You may put this difference down to other things but to me it is clear that plutocrats only felt threatened by one and were probably responsible for the other.

Now is also a good time to bring up the inexplicable revulsion many conservatives have to the word "democracy", it has to the result of pro plutocracy propaganda. Americans used to treasure the concept and now we have Americans who think of themselves as patriotic almost spitting on it as they shrilly shout that we are a republic, as if that is somehow exclusive of democracy.

That more than anything has convinced me that we may have already lost the battle to have the government we need and instead have the one we deserve for giving up on democracy.

Thanks for the response. Yes, America is a plutocracy. Is this news? Money is power. Every Government on Earth is a plutocracy and always has been. I don't like it...neither to do. I don't see it changing any time soon. Both parties are bought and paid for. You blame Republicans...I blame both...that is where we differ.

Your statement that Conservatives don't like Democracy? Dude...no offense...but WTF? No Conservative I know of would support that statement. It is crazy. But to be clear...we are a Republic...not a Democracy. Most Conservatives are very passionate about Democratic principles and governance. I think you left the reservation on that one point.


I think the following statement is almost axiomatic, and gives me cause for hope. Both liberals and conservatives are distrustful of big business...almost to a person. That comes through to me loud and clear. I think that is a good thing. I think liberals are much more trusting of Government power than Conservatives. I think that is a bad thing. I wish both sides could hold their respective positions but be equally skeptical of both.

 

[Kosh]

If you think government is going against business right now then you are just not paying attention, giving us the business is far more accurate. The pentagon got all it's funding back and then some, almost no progress has been made to make sure 2008 never happens again and Wall street had another record year while jobs remain slow to recover. No, the government reflects the will of the people, in this case the big corporate person, and what we have is a reflection of big business's regard for us the citizen/consumer.

And I love it when the far left proves my points with their religious dogma.

Yeah and it just makes me sad when a conservative can't look past their partisan prejudice to see exactly who is ass-raping them.

Irony alert!

And the far left propaganda continues without question or hesitation.

 

[eagle1462010]

Riddle me this.......................

1 Was Free Trade good for the country..........Yes or no.............

No, it has cost us jobs, and has helped decrease money velocity since the year 2000


2 Was creating Too Big to Fail Companies and Banks good for this country...........Yes or no........

No. The Graham Leahy Act did this.........It also allowed Shadow Trading and an explosion of Derivatives in the world leading to the crash.......The Gov't created the Dodd Frank Law instead of fixing what was broken. Which should have been the repeal of the Graham Leahy Act.


3 Was the repeal of the Glass Steagall Act good for this country...........Yes or no............

No. It caused consolidation of Banks with too much power. Thousands of Banks were swallowed up over the decades, leading to a small group of bankers taking over the whole thing. They in turn jacked up a pyramid scheme which slammed the entire economy of the world.


4 Are derivatives and Shadow Trading Good for this country...............Yes or no.........

No. period.

5 Are interest payments on the debt good for the future of this country..........Yes or no........

No. In a decade they will become the largest expenditure of the Federal Gov't.


6 Does printing currency to pay unfunded liabilities deflate the value of the dollar........Yes or no.......

Yes. The value of the dollar has been in decline for decades. Not in direct relation to inflation.


7 We should have bailed out the banks after the crash, including over 16 TRILLION in discount window loans ....................Yes or no............

No........Our policy has only propped up another Pyramid without real value backing it. Setting us up for another crash............Usurpery at it's finest...............


8 Capitalism doesn't work................Yes or no..........................

No.........Today's politics and arguments do not show true EQUITABLE CAPITALISM, but Crony or false capitalism.........Capitalism works when derived by real products instead of the Stock market BS.


9 We can balance the budget with spending reductions.............Yes or no...........

No and Yes...........The enormous task of dealing with this will require major reductions in spending and Revenues generated from taxation...........Repeal of Free Trade and income through tariffs being a good place to start. Trade agreements based on an equal playing field instead of one benefiting those that leave our country to countries with virtually no EPA Standards............

10 Earmarks are good to attach to spending bills.............Yes or No..........

No. Earmarks should not be attached to bills. They are a form of a bribe for a vote even though Congress will say they are to get rid of house keeping measures......They should be voted on in their own bill, and not attached like leaches to other bills..
Questions done to see if there is any common ground here..............

 

[Vox]

Big government in bed with a big business.

which always happens when the government grows exponentially

 

[occupied]

Okay...I kinda of agree in a very qualified way...although business can and does occasionally do some good in the community. But your response still doesn't get to the issue of trust.

Why do you implicitly trust Government more than Business? Is it because with Government theoretically you can redress grievances? (Really, only if you have a lot of money, time, and lawyers. You can do the same with business). You can also redress a grievance with business by not shopping with them anymore.

I am not seeing any reason to trust Government any more than business. Both are completely in bed with the other. Neither really gives a shit about the powerless and never has. IMO if liberal leaning folks were as skeptical about Government as the rest of us, America would be a far better place. But to be fair, I applaud liberals regarding their skepticism of big business. That has truly helped America. But the skepticism regarding both entities should be equal. It is certainly equally deserved.

I do not trust the government at all because I believe that we as a people have been betrayed into accepting a plutocracy and calling it capitalism, some even concider it a patriotic duty to allow the financially powerful as much freedom as possible to exploit us, so they will create more jobs I suppose. Look at what happens when people band together to call on the government to do something about the plutocrat problem (OWS), they get the riot police. Now look at what happens when people band together to say hands off big business lower the capital gains, slash corporate taxes and regs, they get congressmen elected. You may put this difference down to other things but to me it is clear that plutocrats only felt threatened by one and were probably responsible for the other.

Now is also a good time to bring up the inexplicable revulsion many conservatives have to the word "democracy", it has to the result of pro plutocracy propaganda. Americans used to treasure the concept and now we have Americans who think of themselves as patriotic almost spitting on it as they shrilly shout that we are a republic, as if that is somehow exclusive of democracy.

That more than anything has convinced me that we may have already lost the battle to have the government we need and instead have the one we deserve for giving up on democracy.

Thanks for the response. Yes, America is a plutocracy. Is this news? Money is power. Every Government on Earth is a plutocracy and always has been. I don't like it...neither to do. I don't see it changing any time soon. Both parties are bought and paid for. You blame Republicans...I blame both...that is where we differ.

Your statement that Conservatives don't like Democracy? Dude...no offense...but WTF? No Conservative I know of would support that statement. It is crazy. But to be clear...we are a Republic...not a Democracy. Most Conservatives are very passionate about Democratic principles and governance. I think you left the reservation on that one point.


I think the following statement is almost axiomatic, and gives me cause for hope. Both liberals and conservatives are distrustful of big business...almost to a person. That comes through to me loud and clear. I think that is a good thing. I think liberals are much more trusting of Government power than Conservatives. I think that is a bad thing. I wish both sides could hold their respective positions but be equally skeptical of both.

Look at Kosh here, He would do everything short of handing big business our first-born and totally tie the hands of government to do a thing about it. Now there is a load of misplaced trust

As to your statement that conservatives treasure democracy I just do not see any sign of that when it goes against what they wanted instead. Didn't get the president they wanted, talk of revolt. Didn't beat ACA, sabotage. Hippies protesting banks, call out the goon squad. They might treasure democracy but it is conditional on it coming out in their favor.

 

[OODA_Loop]

Official Site of the City of Phoenix - Street Light Repair Request Form

The municipality maintains the infrastructure built and dedicated to the public by developers.

Your posted form is to repair street lights.

Because you're wrong.

How so ?

From your link:

These guidelines have been prepared to inform and assist private developers in detailing their responsibility and the submittal requirements for street lights for new developments. Installation of street lights is a required off-site improvement for new developments. All developers of residential, commercial, and industrial properties are responsible for the design, materials, and installation of street lights and their associated cost on all public streets adjacent and within their projects.

The developer will be responsible for providing the approved Street Light Plans to the utility company (APS or SRP) serving the area of the development. Upon receipt of the plans APS or SRP will begin designing the dry utility street lighting system. All light installations are to be permitted and installed by the developer’s contractor. When completed a Street Light Installation inspection is required.

 

[candycorn]

Over simplified example.

But why the hell not................

1. How is it costly to ask for the DMV to do a computer check at this location to see if it really needs a stop light? Perhaps at this location a recent wreck has caused the death of some members of the community that ever one loved. Causing the neighbors to shout and yell that we need a traffic light.

It was meant to be over-simplified. Do we need a naval base in Italy? I really don't know if it would be better in Italy or Cyprus or Greece or Monaco or Morocco or Spain or France or Albania or where-ever. If I lived near 4th and Main, I could tell you more or less whether one is needed.

I would think the death of anyone whether they are loved or not would spur some sort of action.

As for the question, "how is it costly", it may be or may not be but in every case it would be cheaper to simply ask whoever is there most often (business, home, bus driver, etc...) their opinion.


You're assuming there is an opportunity to tell the neighbors. When I lived in Houston, I took what they called Park and Ride busses. At the time they were considering spending something like a billion dollars on a new rail system that would run from downtown to the shopping district. I went to 2 public meetings. Counting me and the Stenographer, there were 8 people in the audience--there were something like 12 board members. As I recall, some of the 8 were there because it was cold outside and they were homeless. This is the problem.

Since their budget is cut by spending there. 20th and Main doesn't get a traffic light, even though it has 1 fatality a year, and has wrecks there often. But that community didn't protest. Didn't go bat shit crazy as the other.............

So the Mob Won. They pat themselves on the back and say look what we did.............


As the intersection down the road, which needed the light more, continues to kill people at a rate of 1 a year...............

That is the mob. Simple incidents, while tragic, running the show. Instead of looking at reason instead of RULING AND SPENDING BY THE MOMENT.

Which also shows the mentality of the left. Ignoring facts and figures for the Mob mentality.

I knew it would become some sort of partisan nonsense eventually. sigh! And people like you are NEVER to blame...are they?

Yes I threw in partisan Mob rule type tactics. Because they exist. In the heat of the moment people will spend money that might be spent better else where. I believe in making the best decisions with the money they have. I was not comparing data for LARGE tax expenditures but expenditures on the small item of a simple traffic light.

You immediately went large to a transit system budget to counter my argument showing large sums of money spent on something else, instead of smaller sums on lights. I'm thinking the Andy Griffith Show, and your thinking New York City..........

Our Gov't needs to stop thinking, OH it's only this much........Not much in the overall picture. This is the WRONG MENTALITY...........They need to understand that even SMALL expenditures on items eventually add up to Large sums............We need them to be fiscally responsible............but they only suck up to their donors.............

Again, the traffic like is a simple example to a much larger problem. It is an apple's to orange's equation. Our problem is much more significant.

It's no larger than a voter taking responsibility to become informed, vote for a candidate that she/he thinks will do a good job, holding that elected official responsible, and acting accordingly.

If we do that or at least get 2X as many people to do that, it doesn't matter what the lobbyists do; votes will speak louder than money; ask Meg Whitman or that wrestling promoter out in Connecticut.

It really is no larger than that. Except for one thing I have overlooked; stop blaming the "other guy" and worry about your self.

 

[Wry Catcher]

According to Einstein, we are asking the wrong question.

"Who’s to Blame … Big Government or Big Business?

"Conservatives tend to believe that the captains of industry are virtuous and that the government can’t be trusted.

"Liberals tend to believe that government servants are virtuous and that corporations can’t be trusted.

"But the truth is that psychopaths are psychopaths … whether they’re in the private sector or government.

"And there is no such thing as representative government or free market capitalism anymore. Big corporate money has coopted the government; and ill-guided politicians have destroyed the free market."

Al also supplied one possible answer to this (False) dilemma:

"Albert Einstein said:

"A foolish faith in authority is the worst enemy of the truth.

"Indeed, scientists have shown that people will go to absurd lengths - and engage in mental gymnastics – in order to cling to their belief in what those in authority have said.

"Part of the reason so many are so vulnerable to naive belief in authority is that we evolved in small tribes … and we assume that the super-elites are just like us.

"In reality, there are millions of psychopaths in the world … and they are largely running D.C. and on Wall Street."

Albert Einstein: ?A Foolish Faith In Authority Is The Worst Enemy Of The Truth? | Global Research

FLUSH the DC toilet in 2014!

Greed, self interest and the callous disregard for others have infected both big and small business and elected and appointed officials at every strata of our culture. That includes organized religions and the popular culture as seen on TV, in Movies, Internet forums and even in literature.

Some people are saying our nation was founded on Judeo-Christian ethos, where, on any thread can the reader of my remarks point to a thread which expresses self sacrifice for others or even concern for our fellow citizens or future generations?

The point of the OP is well expressed, but he leaves us out of the equation; thus the problem expressed in the OP cannot be solved until We the People change way of thinking and acting.

We are here but for a short time, and how many of us give more than lip service to our posterity, or even to other generations which share the earth with us today?

 

[Kosh]

I do not trust the government at all because I believe that we as a people have been betrayed into accepting a plutocracy and calling it capitalism, some even concider it a patriotic duty to allow the financially powerful as much freedom as possible to exploit us, so they will create more jobs I suppose. Look at what happens when people band together to call on the government to do something about the plutocrat problem (OWS), they get the riot police. Now look at what happens when people band together to say hands off big business lower the capital gains, slash corporate taxes and regs, they get congressmen elected. You may put this difference down to other things but to me it is clear that plutocrats only felt threatened by one and were probably responsible for the other.

Now is also a good time to bring up the inexplicable revulsion many conservatives have to the word "democracy", it has to the result of pro plutocracy propaganda. Americans used to treasure the concept and now we have Americans who think of themselves as patriotic almost spitting on it as they shrilly shout that we are a republic, as if that is somehow exclusive of democracy.

That more than anything has convinced me that we may have already lost the battle to have the government we need and instead have the one we deserve for giving up on democracy.

Thanks for the response. Yes, America is a plutocracy. Is this news? Money is power. Every Government on Earth is a plutocracy and always has been. I don't like it...neither to do. I don't see it changing any time soon. Both parties are bought and paid for. You blame Republicans...I blame both...that is where we differ.

Your statement that Conservatives don't like Democracy? Dude...no offense...but WTF? No Conservative I know of would support that statement. It is crazy. But to be clear...we are a Republic...not a Democracy. Most Conservatives are very passionate about Democratic principles and governance. I think you left the reservation on that one point.


I think the following statement is almost axiomatic, and gives me cause for hope. Both liberals and conservatives are distrustful of big business...almost to a person. That comes through to me loud and clear. I think that is a good thing. I think liberals are much more trusting of Government power than Conservatives. I think that is a bad thing. I wish both sides could hold their respective positions but be equally skeptical of both.

Look at Kosh here, He would do everything short of handing big business our first-born and totally tie the hands of government to do a thing about it. Now there is a load of misplaced trust

As to your statement that conservatives treasure democracy I just do not see any sign of that when it goes against what they wanted instead. Didn't get the president they wanted, talk of revolt. Didn't beat ACA, sabotage. Hippies protesting banks, call out the goon squad. They might treasure democracy but it is conditional on it coming out in their favor.

And the far left propaganda continues based on their hatred of anything that does not follow the far left dogma without question of hesitation.

 

[Kosh]

It was meant to be over-simplified. Do we need a naval base in Italy? I really don't know if it would be better in Italy or Cyprus or Greece or Monaco or Morocco or Spain or France or Albania or where-ever. If I lived near 4th and Main, I could tell you more or less whether one is needed.

I would think the death of anyone whether they are loved or not would spur some sort of action.

As for the question, "how is it costly", it may be or may not be but in every case it would be cheaper to simply ask whoever is there most often (business, home, bus driver, etc...) their opinion.


You're assuming there is an opportunity to tell the neighbors. When I lived in Houston, I took what they called Park and Ride busses. At the time they were considering spending something like a billion dollars on a new rail system that would run from downtown to the shopping district. I went to 2 public meetings. Counting me and the Stenographer, there were 8 people in the audience--there were something like 12 board members. As I recall, some of the 8 were there because it was cold outside and they were homeless. This is the problem.



I knew it would become some sort of partisan nonsense eventually. sigh! And people like you are NEVER to blame...are they?

Yes I threw in partisan Mob rule type tactics. Because they exist. In the heat of the moment people will spend money that might be spent better else where. I believe in making the best decisions with the money they have. I was not comparing data for LARGE tax expenditures but expenditures on the small item of a simple traffic light.

You immediately went large to a transit system budget to counter my argument showing large sums of money spent on something else, instead of smaller sums on lights. I'm thinking the Andy Griffith Show, and your thinking New York City..........

Our Gov't needs to stop thinking, OH it's only this much........Not much in the overall picture. This is the WRONG MENTALITY...........They need to understand that even SMALL expenditures on items eventually add up to Large sums............We need them to be fiscally responsible............but they only suck up to their donors.............

Again, the traffic like is a simple example to a much larger problem. It is an apple's to orange's equation. Our problem is much more significant.

It's no larger than a voter taking responsibility to become informed, vote for a candidate that she/he thinks will do a good job, holding that elected official responsible, and acting accordingly.

If we do that or at least get 2X as many people to do that, it doesn't matter what the lobbyists do; votes will speak louder than money; ask Meg Whitman or that wrestling promoter out in Connecticut.

It really is no larger than that. Except for one thing I have overlooked; stop blaming the "other guy" and worry about your self.

Irony alert!

The far left Obama drone (who voted for Obama twice without hesitation or question) posts their irony filled post.

 

[Kosh]

According to Einstein, we are asking the wrong question.

"Who’s to Blame … Big Government or Big Business?

"Conservatives tend to believe that the captains of industry are virtuous and that the government can’t be trusted.

"Liberals tend to believe that government servants are virtuous and that corporations can’t be trusted.

"But the truth is that psychopaths are psychopaths … whether they’re in the private sector or government.

"And there is no such thing as representative government or free market capitalism anymore. Big corporate money has coopted the government; and ill-guided politicians have destroyed the free market."

Al also supplied one possible answer to this (False) dilemma:

"Albert Einstein said:

"A foolish faith in authority is the worst enemy of the truth.

"Indeed, scientists have shown that people will go to absurd lengths - and engage in mental gymnastics – in order to cling to their belief in what those in authority have said.

"Part of the reason so many are so vulnerable to naive belief in authority is that we evolved in small tribes … and we assume that the super-elites are just like us.

"In reality, there are millions of psychopaths in the world … and they are largely running D.C. and on Wall Street."

Albert Einstein: ?A Foolish Faith In Authority Is The Worst Enemy Of The Truth? | Global Research

FLUSH the DC toilet in 2014!

Greed, self interest and the callous disregard for others have infected both big and small business and elected and appointed officials at every strata of our culture. That includes organized religions and the popular culture as seen on TV, in Movies, Internet forums and even in literature.

Some people are saying our nation was founded on Judeo-Christian ethos, where, on any thread can the reader of my remarks point to a thread which expresses self sacrifice for others or even concern for our fellow citizens or future generations?

The point of the OP is well expressed, but he leaves us out of the equation; thus the problem expressed in the OP cannot be solved until We the People change way of thinking and acting.

We are here but for a short time, and how many of us give more than lip service to our posterity, or even to other generations which share the earth with us today?

Can the far left post without using far left talking points/propaganda?

 

[Derideo_Te]

Riddle me this.......................

1 Was Free Trade good for the country..........Yes or no.............

No, it has cost us jobs, and has helped decrease money velocity since the year 2000


2 Was creating Too Big to Fail Companies and Banks good for this country...........Yes or no........

No. The Graham Leahy Act did this.........It also allowed Shadow Trading and an explosion of Derivatives in the world leading to the crash.......The Gov't created the Dodd Frank Law instead of fixing what was broken. Which should have been the repeal of the Graham Leahy Act.


3 Was the repeal of the Glass Steagall Act good for this country...........Yes or no............

No. It caused consolidation of Banks with too much power. Thousands of Banks were swallowed up over the decades, leading to a small group of bankers taking over the whole thing. They in turn jacked up a pyramid scheme which slammed the entire economy of the world.


4 Are derivatives and Shadow Trading Good for this country...............Yes or no.........

No. period.

5 Are interest payments on the debt good for the future of this country..........Yes or no........

No. In a decade they will become the largest expenditure of the Federal Gov't.


6 Does printing currency to pay unfunded liabilities deflate the value of the dollar........Yes or no.......

Yes. The value of the dollar has been in decline for decades. Not in direct relation to inflation.


7 We should have bailed out the banks after the crash, including over 16 TRILLION in discount window loans ....................Yes or no............

No........Our policy has only propped up another Pyramid without real value backing it. Setting us up for another crash............Usurpery at it's finest...............


8 Capitalism doesn't work................Yes or no..........................

No.........Today's politics and arguments do not show true EQUITABLE CAPITALISM, but Crony or false capitalism.........Capitalism works when derived by real products instead of the Stock market BS.


9 We can balance the budget with spending reductions.............Yes or no...........

No and Yes...........The enormous task of dealing with this will require major reductions in spending and Revenues generated from taxation...........Repeal of Free Trade and income through tariffs being a good place to start. Trade agreements based on an equal playing field instead of one benefiting those that leave our country to countries with virtually no EPA Standards............

10 Earmarks are good to attach to spending bills.............Yes or No..........

No. Earmarks should not be attached to bills. They are a form of a bribe for a vote even though Congress will say they are to get rid of house keeping measures......They should be voted on in their own bill, and not attached like leaches to other bills..
Questions done to see if there is any common ground here..............

Agree with all but #9. Any spending cut that does not address the national debt is cosmetic. We cannot reduce spending enough to pay down the national debt. Therefore we need to be realistic about increasing revenues so that we solve BOTH spending and debt problems.

 

[occupied]

Thanks for the response. Yes, America is a plutocracy. Is this news? Money is power. Every Government on Earth is a plutocracy and always has been. I don't like it...neither to do. I don't see it changing any time soon. Both parties are bought and paid for. You blame Republicans...I blame both...that is where we differ.

Your statement that Conservatives don't like Democracy? Dude...no offense...but WTF? No Conservative I know of would support that statement. It is crazy. But to be clear...we are a Republic...not a Democracy. Most Conservatives are very passionate about Democratic principles and governance. I think you left the reservation on that one point.


I think the following statement is almost axiomatic, and gives me cause for hope. Both liberals and conservatives are distrustful of big business...almost to a person. That comes through to me loud and clear. I think that is a good thing. I think liberals are much more trusting of Government power than Conservatives. I think that is a bad thing. I wish both sides could hold their respective positions but be equally skeptical of both.

Look at Kosh here, He would do everything short of handing big business our first-born and totally tie the hands of government to do a thing about it. Now there is a load of misplaced trust

As to your statement that conservatives treasure democracy I just do not see any sign of that when it goes against what they wanted instead. Didn't get the president they wanted, talk of revolt. Didn't beat ACA, sabotage. Hippies protesting banks, call out the goon squad. They might treasure democracy but it is conditional on it coming out in their favor.

And the far left propaganda continues based on their hatred of anything that does not follow the far left dogma without question of hesitation.

Say something substantial to the conversation or shut the fuck up. Liberal bashing is fine but try not to seem like such a total retard while doing it. Making the other conservatives look bad by association.

 

[eagle1462010]

It was meant to be over-simplified. Do we need a naval base in Italy? I really don't know if it would be better in Italy or Cyprus or Greece or Monaco or Morocco or Spain or France or Albania or where-ever. If I lived near 4th and Main, I could tell you more or less whether one is needed.

I would think the death of anyone whether they are loved or not would spur some sort of action.

As for the question, "how is it costly", it may be or may not be but in every case it would be cheaper to simply ask whoever is there most often (business, home, bus driver, etc...) their opinion.


You're assuming there is an opportunity to tell the neighbors. When I lived in Houston, I took what they called Park and Ride busses. At the time they were considering spending something like a billion dollars on a new rail system that would run from downtown to the shopping district. I went to 2 public meetings. Counting me and the Stenographer, there were 8 people in the audience--there were something like 12 board members. As I recall, some of the 8 were there because it was cold outside and they were homeless. This is the problem.



I knew it would become some sort of partisan nonsense eventually. sigh! And people like you are NEVER to blame...are they?

Yes I threw in partisan Mob rule type tactics. Because they exist. In the heat of the moment people will spend money that might be spent better else where. I believe in making the best decisions with the money they have. I was not comparing data for LARGE tax expenditures but expenditures on the small item of a simple traffic light.

You immediately went large to a transit system budget to counter my argument showing large sums of money spent on something else, instead of smaller sums on lights. I'm thinking the Andy Griffith Show, and your thinking New York City..........

Our Gov't needs to stop thinking, OH it's only this much........Not much in the overall picture. This is the WRONG MENTALITY...........They need to understand that even SMALL expenditures on items eventually add up to Large sums............We need them to be fiscally responsible............but they only suck up to their donors.............

Again, the traffic like is a simple example to a much larger problem. It is an apple's to orange's equation. Our problem is much more significant.

It's no larger than a voter taking responsibility to become informed, vote for a candidate that she/he thinks will do a good job, holding that elected official responsible, and acting accordingly.

If we do that or at least get 2X as many people to do that, it doesn't matter what the lobbyists do; votes will speak louder than money; ask Meg Whitman or that wrestling promoter out in Connecticut.

It really is no larger than that. Except for one thing I have overlooked; stop blaming the "other guy" and worry about your self.

We don't have an informed public............Most want to just live their lives and hope for the best..............

They just look at the political adds and what is fed to them by the media and make a choice on who to vote for in the next election.........and do so while wishing the dang media would shut up as they are tired of seeing the commercials..................Back to the Football game, or latest T.V. show...................

That is a problem, and who's version of the truth should apply...................

That truth should be found not by the stinking media whores, but by individuals doing their own research and finding the truth for themselves...............Not what they are told to think by politically hacked media..............Both sides.....................