Who's to Blame: Big Government or Big Business?

[eagle1462010]

Riddle me this.......................

1 Was Free Trade good for the country..........Yes or no.............

No, it has cost us jobs, and has helped decrease money velocity since the year 2000


2 Was creating Too Big to Fail Companies and Banks good for this country...........Yes or no........

No. The Graham Leahy Act did this.........It also allowed Shadow Trading and an explosion of Derivatives in the world leading to the crash.......The Gov't created the Dodd Frank Law instead of fixing what was broken. Which should have been the repeal of the Graham Leahy Act.


3 Was the repeal of the Glass Steagall Act good for this country...........Yes or no............

No. It caused consolidation of Banks with too much power. Thousands of Banks were swallowed up over the decades, leading to a small group of bankers taking over the whole thing. They in turn jacked up a pyramid scheme which slammed the entire economy of the world.


4 Are derivatives and Shadow Trading Good for this country...............Yes or no.........

No. period.

5 Are interest payments on the debt good for the future of this country..........Yes or no........

No. In a decade they will become the largest expenditure of the Federal Gov't.


6 Does printing currency to pay unfunded liabilities deflate the value of the dollar........Yes or no.......

Yes. The value of the dollar has been in decline for decades. Not in direct relation to inflation.


7 We should have bailed out the banks after the crash, including over 16 TRILLION in discount window loans ....................Yes or no............

No........Our policy has only propped up another Pyramid without real value backing it. Setting us up for another crash............Usurpery at it's finest...............


8 Capitalism doesn't work................Yes or no..........................

No.........Today's politics and arguments do not show true EQUITABLE CAPITALISM, but Crony or false capitalism.........Capitalism works when derived by real products instead of the Stock market BS.


9 We can balance the budget with spending reductions.............Yes or no...........

No and Yes...........The enormous task of dealing with this will require major reductions in spending and Revenues generated from taxation...........Repeal of Free Trade and income through tariffs being a good place to start. Trade agreements based on an equal playing field instead of one benefiting those that leave our country to countries with virtually no EPA Standards............

10 Earmarks are good to attach to spending bills.............Yes or No..........

No. Earmarks should not be attached to bills. They are a form of a bribe for a vote even though Congress will say they are to get rid of house keeping measures......They should be voted on in their own bill, and not attached like leaches to other bills..
Questions done to see if there is any common ground here..............

Agree with all but #9. Any spending cut that does not address the national debt is cosmetic. We cannot reduce spending enough to pay down the national debt. Therefore we need to be realistic about increasing revenues so that we solve BOTH spending and debt problems.

You are correct and I agree...........should have stated the debt and not the deficit...........Balancing the budget alone will not get rid of the debt.

Point well taken.

 

[BobPlumb]

If we could go with no deficits for 100 years, then a 17 trillion debt will not be so bad. Of course most all of us will probably be dead by then, so why should we care?

Note: Previous sentence is a lame attempt at sarcasm.

 

[eagle1462010]

If we could go with no deficits for 100 years, then a 17 trillion debt will no be so bad. Of course most all of us will probably be dead by then, so why should we care?

Note: Previous sentence is a lame attempt at sarcasm.

LOL

With the status quo politicians of today Sarcasm is required.

 

[billyerock1991]

here is what Rush Limbaugh said what the right wing should be.... yesterday I was scanning the channels, I came across a interview with Rush Limbaugh on Fox News ... he was talking about what he felt what conservatism should be .... Limbaugh said we should never compromise with democrats in anyway it takes away from our principals ....

Limbaugh said by compromising with the democrats it takes away from their Beliefs on how the country should run .... Limbaugh said the democrats have made the republicans look like racist, woman haters, and loathing the middle class and the poor, the democrats caused this ... I laughed ....

by doing this to the republicans it has cause them to look bad to the Voters and its the democrats fault for making them look this way ... now the Democrats have republicans running scared, he said ... that they don't know which way to turn, he said....so they try to compromise with democrats, just so they won't lose their reelection ... I thought to myself does this guy have a clue at all ... Ive seen threads on here telling us that republicans are now going in the plus in the polling for reelection ....they said the same shit about mit... I just shake my head .... nothing like following their party right off the cliff ... right down the toilet with the tea baggers bobbing in the water

so when I see the republicans here trying their best to try and convince us the republican party is the only way we should live, if that's not Communism I don't know what is ... its their way or no way at all ... that's what I call sad...

 

[billyerock1991]

It was meant to be over-simplified. Do we need a naval base in Italy? I really don't know if it would be better in Italy or Cyprus or Greece or Monaco or Morocco or Spain or France or Albania or where-ever. If I lived near 4th and Main, I could tell you more or less whether one is needed.

I would think the death of anyone whether they are loved or not would spur some sort of action.

As for the question, "how is it costly", it may be or may not be but in every case it would be cheaper to simply ask whoever is there most often (business, home, bus driver, etc...) their opinion.


You're assuming there is an opportunity to tell the neighbors. When I lived in Houston, I took what they called Park and Ride busses. At the time they were considering spending something like a billion dollars on a new rail system that would run from downtown to the shopping district. I went to 2 public meetings. Counting me and the Stenographer, there were 8 people in the audience--there were something like 12 board members. As I recall, some of the 8 were there because it was cold outside and they were homeless. This is the problem.



I knew it would become some sort of partisan nonsense eventually. sigh! And people like you are NEVER to blame...are they?

Yes I threw in partisan Mob rule type tactics. Because they exist. In the heat of the moment people will spend money that might be spent better else where. I believe in making the best decisions with the money they have. I was not comparing data for LARGE tax expenditures but expenditures on the small item of a simple traffic light.

You immediately went large to a transit system budget to counter my argument showing large sums of money spent on something else, instead of smaller sums on lights. I'm thinking the Andy Griffith Show, and your thinking New York City..........

Our Gov't needs to stop thinking, OH it's only this much........Not much in the overall picture. This is the WRONG MENTALITY...........They need to understand that even SMALL expenditures on items eventually add up to Large sums............We need them to be fiscally responsible............but they only suck up to their donors.............

Again, the traffic like is a simple example to a much larger problem. It is an apple's to orange's equation. Our problem is much more significant.

It's no larger than a voter taking responsibility to become informed, vote for a candidate that she/he thinks will do a good job, holding that elected official responsible, and acting accordingly.

If we do that or at least get 2X as many people to do that, it doesn't matter what the lobbyists do; votes will speak louder than money; ask Meg Whitman or that wrestling promoter out in Connecticut.

It really is no larger than that. Except for one thing I have overlooked; stop blaming the "other guy" and worry about your self.

the problem you have here is money ... it talks the loudest ... where the lobbyists have the loudest mouths ... we all know how brain damaged republicans are, if they are lied to by a lobbyists they buy it cause the republicans said it was a good idea ... oh say like not having affordable health care

 

[Wry Catcher]

Riddle me this.......................

1 Was Free Trade good for the country..........Yes or no.............

No, it has cost us jobs, and has helped decrease money velocity since the year 2000


2 Was creating Too Big to Fail Companies and Banks good for this country...........Yes or no........

No. The Graham Leahy Act did this.........It also allowed Shadow Trading and an explosion of Derivatives in the world leading to the crash.......The Gov't created the Dodd Frank Law instead of fixing what was broken. Which should have been the repeal of the Graham Leahy Act.


3 Was the repeal of the Glass Steagall Act good for this country...........Yes or no............

No. It caused consolidation of Banks with too much power. Thousands of Banks were swallowed up over the decades, leading to a small group of bankers taking over the whole thing. They in turn jacked up a pyramid scheme which slammed the entire economy of the world.


4 Are derivatives and Shadow Trading Good for this country...............Yes or no.........

No. period.

5 Are interest payments on the debt good for the future of this country..........Yes or no........

No. In a decade they will become the largest expenditure of the Federal Gov't.


6 Does printing currency to pay unfunded liabilities deflate the value of the dollar........Yes or no.......

Yes. The value of the dollar has been in decline for decades. Not in direct relation to inflation.


7 We should have bailed out the banks after the crash, including over 16 TRILLION in discount window loans ....................Yes or no............

No........Our policy has only propped up another Pyramid without real value backing it. Setting us up for another crash............Usurpery at it's finest...............


8 Capitalism doesn't work................Yes or no..........................

No.........Today's politics and arguments do not show true EQUITABLE CAPITALISM, but Crony or false capitalism.........Capitalism works when derived by real products instead of the Stock market BS.


9 We can balance the budget with spending reductions.............Yes or no...........

No and Yes...........The enormous task of dealing with this will require major reductions in spending and Revenues generated from taxation...........Repeal of Free Trade and income through tariffs being a good place to start. Trade agreements based on an equal playing field instead of one benefiting those that leave our country to countries with virtually no EPA Standards............

10 Earmarks are good to attach to spending bills.............Yes or No..........

No. Earmarks should not be attached to bills. They are a form of a bribe for a vote even though Congress will say they are to get rid of house keeping measures......They should be voted on in their own bill, and not attached like leaches to other bills..
Questions done to see if there is any common ground here..............

A very good effort to define the problem(s); we have become a nation run by a power elite, interests motivated by a lust for power and great wealth. How do we change that? Even well motivated individuals interested in equitable capitalism need to play by the rules to get and stay elected. It is easy for even the most honest and forthright individual to decide their election is too important not to accept the money from special interests and later to vote the way the special interests want, for in their mind the end (their election) justifies such an action.

 

[OODA_Loop]

he (Rush Limbaugh) was talking about what he felt what conservatism should be ....

Communism is what Rush Limbaugh felt conservatism should be ?

Why do Rush's feelings hurt you so ?

 

[occupied]

he (Rush Limbaugh) was talking about what he felt what conservatism should be ....

Communism is what Rush Limbaugh felt conservatism should be ?

Why do Rush's feelings hurt you so ?

Rush wants to be king of the gullible dumbasses without taking any responsibility for what happens when gullible dumbasses do what he says.

 

[OODA_Loop]

he (Rush Limbaugh) was talking about what he felt what conservatism should be ....

Communism is what Rush Limbaugh felt conservatism should be ?

Why do Rush's feelings hurt you so ?

Rush wants to be king of the gullible dumbasses without taking any responsibility for what happens when gullible dumbasses do what he says.

What did he say which someone did he needs to be responsible for ?

 

[occupied]

Yes I threw in partisan Mob rule type tactics. Because they exist. In the heat of the moment people will spend money that might be spent better else where. I believe in making the best decisions with the money they have. I was not comparing data for LARGE tax expenditures but expenditures on the small item of a simple traffic light.

You immediately went large to a transit system budget to counter my argument showing large sums of money spent on something else, instead of smaller sums on lights. I'm thinking the Andy Griffith Show, and your thinking New York City..........

Our Gov't needs to stop thinking, OH it's only this much........Not much in the overall picture. This is the WRONG MENTALITY...........They need to understand that even SMALL expenditures on items eventually add up to Large sums............We need them to be fiscally responsible............but they only suck up to their donors.............

Again, the traffic like is a simple example to a much larger problem. It is an apple's to orange's equation. Our problem is much more significant.

It's no larger than a voter taking responsibility to become informed, vote for a candidate that she/he thinks will do a good job, holding that elected official responsible, and acting accordingly.

If we do that or at least get 2X as many people to do that, it doesn't matter what the lobbyists do; votes will speak louder than money; ask Meg Whitman or that wrestling promoter out in Connecticut.

It really is no larger than that. Except for one thing I have overlooked; stop blaming the "other guy" and worry about your self.

the problem you have here is money ... it talks the loudest ... where the lobbyists have the loudest mouths ... we all know how brain damaged republicans are, if they are lied to by a lobbyists they buy it cause the republicans said it was a good idea ... oh say like not having affordable health care

Nearly all of them of both parties suckle at the teat of the lobbying industry and the ACA is good example of what happens when they gauge the will of the people by what industry lobbyists have to say.

 

[WelfareQueen]

here is what Rush Limbaugh said what the right wing should be.... yesterday I was scanning the channels, I came across a interview with Rush Limbaugh on Fox News ... he was talking about what he felt what conservatism should be .... Limbaugh said we should never compromise with democrats in anyway it takes away from our principals ....

Limbaugh said by compromising with the democrats it takes away from their Beliefs on how the country should run .... Limbaugh said the democrats have made the republicans look like racist, woman haters, and loathing the middle class and the poor, the democrats caused this ... I laughed ....

by doing this to the republicans it has cause them to look bad to the Voters and its the democrats fault for making them look this way ... now the Democrats have republicans running scared, he said ... that they don't know which way to turn, he said....so they try to compromise with democrats, just so they won't lose their reelection ... I thought to myself does this guy have a clue at all ... Ive seen threads on here telling us that republicans are now going in the plus in the polling for reelection ....they said the same shit about mit... I just shake my head .... nothing like following their party right off the cliff ... right down the toilet with the tea baggers bobbing in the water

so when I see the republicans here trying their best to try and convince us the republican party is the only way we should live, if that's not Communism I don't know what is ... its their way or no way at all ... that's what I call sad...

WGAS about Rush Limbaugh. He is a media idiot and a strawman. Let it go.

 

[billyerock1991]

he (Rush Limbaugh) was talking about what he felt what conservatism should be ....

Communism is what Rush Limbaugh felt conservatism should be ?

Why do Rush's feelings hurt you so ?

his idea of not compromising with dems "AT ALL" is what he said .... my comment was isn't that what Communism is ... not allowing the people to have a say in anything ...just what he has the say in how government should be or did you not comprehend that....

P.S.
Rush doesn't hurt me in any way... it makes me laugh at republican who follow this moron ... republicans fear him if they cross him ... its people like me who make his ideals look immoral ... he's not bright enough to realize what his Ideals did ... he made himself look immoral... not dems ... no republican could ever hurt my feelings ... they're too stupid ...

 

[WelfareQueen]

I do not trust the government at all because I believe that we as a people have been betrayed into accepting a plutocracy and calling it capitalism, some even concider it a patriotic duty to allow the financially powerful as much freedom as possible to exploit us, so they will create more jobs I suppose. Look at what happens when people band together to call on the government to do something about the plutocrat problem (OWS), they get the riot police. Now look at what happens when people band together to say hands off big business lower the capital gains, slash corporate taxes and regs, they get congressmen elected. You may put this difference down to other things but to me it is clear that plutocrats only felt threatened by one and were probably responsible for the other.

Now is also a good time to bring up the inexplicable revulsion many conservatives have to the word "democracy", it has to the result of pro plutocracy propaganda. Americans used to treasure the concept and now we have Americans who think of themselves as patriotic almost spitting on it as they shrilly shout that we are a republic, as if that is somehow exclusive of democracy.

That more than anything has convinced me that we may have already lost the battle to have the government we need and instead have the one we deserve for giving up on democracy.

Thanks for the response. Yes, America is a plutocracy. Is this news? Money is power. Every Government on Earth is a plutocracy and always has been. I don't like it...neither to do. I don't see it changing any time soon. Both parties are bought and paid for. You blame Republicans...I blame both...that is where we differ.

Your statement that Conservatives don't like Democracy? Dude...no offense...but WTF? No Conservative I know of would support that statement. It is crazy. But to be clear...we are a Republic...not a Democracy. Most Conservatives are very passionate about Democratic principles and governance. I think you left the reservation on that one point.


I think the following statement is almost axiomatic, and gives me cause for hope. Both liberals and conservatives are distrustful of big business...almost to a person. That comes through to me loud and clear. I think that is a good thing. I think liberals are much more trusting of Government power than Conservatives. I think that is a bad thing. I wish both sides could hold their respective positions but be equally skeptical of both.

Look at Kosh here, He would do everything short of handing big business our first-born and totally tie the hands of government to do a thing about it. Now there is a load of misplaced trust

As to your statement that conservatives treasure democracy I just do not see any sign of that when it goes against what they wanted instead. Didn't get the president they wanted, talk of revolt. Didn't beat ACA, sabotage. Hippies protesting banks, call out the goon squad. They might treasure democracy but it is conditional on it coming out in their favor.

 

[OODA_Loop]

he (Rush Limbaugh) was talking about what he felt what conservatism should be ....

Communism is what Rush Limbaugh felt conservatism should be ?

Why do Rush's feelings hurt you so ?

his idea of not compromising with dems "AT ALL" is what he said .... my comment was isn't that what Communism is ... not allowing the people to have a say in anything ...just what he has the say in how government should be or did you not comprehend that....

My elected officials not compromising with Dems at all is my say.

Do you not comprehend the push-back response to your political will are others' same duly elected, political freewill ?

 

[OODA_Loop]

its people like me who make his ideals look immoral ... he's not bright enough to realize what his Ideals did ... he made himself look immoral... not dems ... no republican could ever hurt my feelings ... they're too stupid ...

Example of one of his more immoral quotes ?

 

[Mac1958]

We the People need to recognize the role that government plays as a useful and effective tool in a civilized society and fund it accordingly. But until we do so we will continue to suffer with the current problems.

At a macro, 20,000-foot level, there are four variables here:

• The amount of funding to the government
• The efficiency of government spending
• The effectiveness of government spending
• The tipping point at which dependency on the government becomes a net negative to a society and culture

I'd guess many would agree about the variables, but not on the degrees of the variables.

.

 

[billyerock1991]

here is what Rush Limbaugh said what the right wing should be.... yesterday I was scanning the channels, I came across a interview with Rush Limbaugh on Fox News ... he was talking about what he felt what conservatism should be .... Limbaugh said we should never compromise with democrats in anyway it takes away from our principals ....

Limbaugh said by compromising with the democrats it takes away from their Beliefs on how the country should run .... Limbaugh said the democrats have made the republicans look like racist, woman haters, and loathing the middle class and the poor, the democrats caused this ... I laughed ....

by doing this to the republicans it has cause them to look bad to the Voters and its the democrats fault for making them look this way ... now the Democrats have republicans running scared, he said ... that they don't know which way to turn, he said....so they try to compromise with democrats, just so they won't lose their reelection ... I thought to myself does this guy have a clue at all ... Ive seen threads on here telling us that republicans are now going in the plus in the polling for reelection ....they said the same shit about mit... I just shake my head .... nothing like following their party right off the cliff ... right down the toilet with the tea baggers bobbing in the water

so when I see the republicans here trying their best to try and convince us the republican party is the only way we should live, if that's not Communism I don't know what is ... its their way or no way at all ... that's what I call sad...

WGAS about Rush Limbaugh. He is a media idiot and a strawman. Let it go.

the point I was trying to get across here is, how many time a day do we hear the right here call us Dems commies ... but none of them can ever define what a commie is... they say they are being force to do liberals ideas ... then turn around and broadcast what the republican way of life as being free constitutionalists capitalist ... an putting smilly faces all over their post

 

[eagle1462010]

Yes I threw in partisan Mob rule type tactics. Because they exist. In the heat of the moment people will spend money that might be spent better else where. I believe in making the best decisions with the money they have. I was not comparing data for LARGE tax expenditures but expenditures on the small item of a simple traffic light.

You immediately went large to a transit system budget to counter my argument showing large sums of money spent on something else, instead of smaller sums on lights. I'm thinking the Andy Griffith Show, and your thinking New York City..........

Our Gov't needs to stop thinking, OH it's only this much........Not much in the overall picture. This is the WRONG MENTALITY...........They need to understand that even SMALL expenditures on items eventually add up to Large sums............We need them to be fiscally responsible............but they only suck up to their donors.............

Again, the traffic like is a simple example to a much larger problem. It is an apple's to orange's equation. Our problem is much more significant.

It's no larger than a voter taking responsibility to become informed, vote for a candidate that she/he thinks will do a good job, holding that elected official responsible, and acting accordingly.

If we do that or at least get 2X as many people to do that, it doesn't matter what the lobbyists do; votes will speak louder than money; ask Meg Whitman or that wrestling promoter out in Connecticut.

It really is no larger than that. Except for one thing I have overlooked; stop blaming the "other guy" and worry about your self.

the problem you have here is money ... it talks the loudest ... where the lobbyists have the loudest mouths ... we all know how brain damaged republicans are, if they are lied to by a lobbyists they buy it cause the republicans said it was a good idea ... oh say like not having affordable health care

Billy bob speaks.............Only the Republicans...............

LOL

You as always are useless to me.............

 

[occupied]

Thanks for the response. Yes, America is a plutocracy. Is this news? Money is power. Every Government on Earth is a plutocracy and always has been. I don't like it...neither to do. I don't see it changing any time soon. Both parties are bought and paid for. You blame Republicans...I blame both...that is where we differ.

Your statement that Conservatives don't like Democracy? Dude...no offense...but WTF? No Conservative I know of would support that statement. It is crazy. But to be clear...we are a Republic...not a Democracy. Most Conservatives are very passionate about Democratic principles and governance. I think you left the reservation on that one point.


I think the following statement is almost axiomatic, and gives me cause for hope. Both liberals and conservatives are distrustful of big business...almost to a person. That comes through to me loud and clear. I think that is a good thing. I think liberals are much more trusting of Government power than Conservatives. I think that is a bad thing. I wish both sides could hold their respective positions but be equally skeptical of both.

Look at Kosh here, He would do everything short of handing big business our first-born and totally tie the hands of government to do a thing about it. Now there is a load of misplaced trust

As to your statement that conservatives treasure democracy I just do not see any sign of that when it goes against what they wanted instead. Didn't get the president they wanted, talk of revolt. Didn't beat ACA, sabotage. Hippies protesting banks, call out the goon squad. They might treasure democracy but it is conditional on it coming out in their favor.

What a terrible attempt at rebuttal, You could back that up with some examples that come close to the 5 year infantile temper-tantrum that the TP manics have had or their instant hatred of everything occupy tried to accomplish. I know Bush pissed off a lot of people but there was no talk of rebellion or any attempt by democrats to destroy the government in response.

 

[Ava]

Who's to Blame: Big Government or Big Business?

Big government, of course.

Wednesday, December 25, 2013

Twenty-nine percent (29%) of Likely U.S. Voters think the country is heading in the right direction, according to a new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey for the week ending December 22.

That’s up three points from 26% the previous week and the highest level of confidence since early September. In early October during the federal government shutdown, confidence in the country’s course fell to 13%, the lowest finding in five years. A year ago, 35% said the country was heading in the right direction.

more: Right Direction or Wrong Track - Rasmussen Reports?