Why Are We A Democracy?

[Windship]

We currently, have a Democracy...kinda. Saying we dont and never did, makes you look ignorant with an agenda.

The States are Democracies, the Federal Government isn't. The Founding Fathers wanted to prevent tyranny of the majority. In fact they never referred to the Federal government as a democracy and no one did until Democrats wanted to justify tyranny of the majority in the 20th century

Yeah. Like the right is doing with the word Republic. And A Republic is almost identical to a Democracy...lol.

No. They aren't. Which is why we have separate words to begin with

Go search the meanings, moron.

 

[Windship]

this is so stupid of you. The words are so close together that they're almost have the identical meaning, lmao...but you cant see that.

 

[yiostheoy]

We're a Constitutional Republic. Not a Democracy. Democracy is mob rule.

We (the USA) are a Constitutional Democratic Republic.

Constitutional means there is a written Constitution which governs what the majority may impose.

Democratic means all the people are entitled to vote.

Republic means that representatives are elected democratically and sent to the State Capitol or the National Capital to vote on legislation or to fill public office in the Administration.

A pure democracy would be like the ancient Athenians had -- where every citizen votes on all legislation. We are not a democracy.

A pure republic would be like the ancient Romans had -- where these senate seats are inherited. We are not a republic.

We are a Constitutional Democratic Republic.

If you paid attention in high school Civics then you got this right.

 

[Avatar4321]

We're not supposed to be a Democracy. The U.S. was set up to be a Constitution Republic with limits on government power - one important purpose of which is to protect minority (not racial, but political) rights. Pure Democracies always descend into raging mobs which persecute the political minority (which is a moving target based on arbitrary abuses of power).

There has never been a "pure democracy" on a national scale ever.

Mob rule cannot be organized that's why… LOL

Are you aware that every fascist movement started with the idea that democracy is poison, the masses are unfit to have a say in their government and a certain class/race/tribe alone has the moral certitude to rule? Democracy is not a system of government but if a government does not promote the ideal that all of "The People" must be included in the political structure and have a vote and the right to protest it is not a free country. Simply dismissing democracy as mob rule tells me you would be just fine in a fascist state as long as you were included in the ruling class.

I would think the fact that the masses gave us a choice between trump and Clinton should tell us all that sometimes, they need to be checked.

That's the beauty of how our republic was designed. It was created to have a balance between the masses, the state, and the feds. Unfortunately that balance was shifted toward the feds when the 17th amendment was passed

The election of the senate by undemocratic means had it's own problems, foremost of which was that senators used to pay to be elected, it's getting that way again where only deep pockets can afford to run for national office so maybe you have less to complain about than you think.

A problem that could easily be solved without handing the legislative branch that was to represent the state governments over to special interests

 

[Windship]

What can you do in a Republic that you can or cant do in a Democracy?

 

[kaz]

We currently, have a Democracy...kinda. Saying we dont and never did, makes you look ignorant with an agenda.

The States are Democracies, the Federal Government isn't. The Founding Fathers wanted to prevent tyranny of the majority. In fact they never referred to the Federal government as a democracy and no one did until Democrats wanted to justify tyranny of the majority in the 20th century

Yeah. Like the right is doing with the word Republic. And A Republic is almost identical to a Democracy...lol.

No. They aren't. Which is why we have separate words to begin with

The problem is there are variations of each word. That can leave them the same or different

 

[Windship]

Why are you even taking this to task? Cause you dont understand.

 

[Windship]

The problem is there are variations of each word. That can leave them the same or different[/QUOTE]

Is not hard to understand..."by the people for the people"....jeeze...whats next?...get rid of the Constitution?...yes. You for that too?

 

[kaz]

The problem is there are variations of each word. That can leave them the same or different

Is not hard to understand..."by the people for the people"....jeeze...whats next?...get rid of the Constitution?...yes. You for that too?

Where did I say that? What are you smoking?

This hair splitting argument is boring as shit

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

You deny Democracy because it checks capitalism and government so they can not be corrupted by corporations. The Democracy we had DID this and you know it. Thats your agenda. Greed and lies. The Republic you insist on and I agree, we are both, does pretty much the same thing.

No, a democracy was appropriately rejected by the Founding Generation because it’s an inferior form of government to a Constitutional Republic.

We see evidence of the failing of democracy in Europe today, in their failed attempts to address Muslim immigration.

Some European democracies have enacted punitive measures for expressing hatred or bigotry toward Muslim immigrants, a dangerous threat to freedom of speech and expression. And those accused of bigotry have no legal recourse because such laws are enacted as a result of the ‘will of the people,’ where the people are the ultimate legal authority.

Fortunately, that’s not the case in our Constitutional Republic, where the rule of law is the ultimate authority, as hate speech and expressions of bigotry and racism are entitled to Constitutional protections, and citizens are at liberty to exhibit their fear, ignorance, and hate with impunity, but may not seek to codify that fear, ignorance, and hate because Muslims are likewise entitled to Constitutional protections, guaranteed by the First Amendment.

The genius of the American Republic is its respect for, and acknowledgement of, the Constitution, its case law, and the rule of law – far superior to any democracy.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

george bush wasnt appointed by the supreme court....wow...and I go to search to find the articles Ive had before?....and I find nothing. Not one single morsal. Nothing....gone.

Well that's besides the fact most everybody agrees that even if the recounts were allowed to take place, Bush still would have won. If you need that article, I'll post the FactCheck link.

In a per curiam decision, the Court ruled that there was an Equal Protection Clause violation in using different standards of counting in different counties and ruled that no alternative method could be established within the time limit set by Title 3 of the United States Code (3 U.S.C.), § 5 ("Determination of controversy as to appointment of electors"), which was December 12.[1] The vote regarding the Equal Protection Clause was 7–2, and regarding the lack of an alternative method was 5–4.[2] Three concurring justices also asserted that the Florida Supreme Court had violated Article II, § 1, cl. 2 of the Constitution, by misinterpreting Florida election law that had been enacted by the Florida Legislature.

Bush v. Gore - Wikipedia

 

[yiostheoy]

So, back to the original question, somewhat cleaned up -- "Why are we (the USA) a Constitutional Democratic Republic?"

Well, because the Freemasons of Colonial English North America decided to rebel from their king, George The 3rd, they having decided that the Medieval idea of the Devine Right Of Kings was a fallacy and no longer valid.

So in keeping with the political philosophy of John Locke and similar others, the Founding Freemason rebels first raised a rebel army and a rebel navy with a rebel marine corps too, and then wrote Articles Of Confederation and then later replaced them with a federal U.S. Constitution that spelled out how the Democratic Republic was going to work, with separation of powers between the Federal Legislature (which they called a Congress), the Federal Administration (which they called a Presidency), and the Federal Courts (which included one Supreme Court at the top of the court structure).

That's why.

Like Benjamin Franklin (the grandmaster of the Philadelphia grand lodge of F&AM's) said, they had to hang together or else they would hang one by one.

With luck and help from France, the American rebellion succeeded and became the American Revolution.

It was foolish for the King Of France, Louis The 16th, to help the American colonists however. He did so out of hatred for the English King. However the rebellion in America soon spread to France too, and Louis was beheaded as was his wife Marie Antoinette.

No good dead goes unpunished.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Why Are We A Democracy?
We are not a democracy....Bush Jr. didn't win the popular vote in 2000, the Supreme Court overruled the popular vote.

What is this ignorance? The popular vote was never going to determine that election. Electoral votes determine the presidency. And George Bush won them no matter how many times democrats demanded recounts.

The popular vote wont matter this election. For example Gary Johnson may come in third in the popular vote. But if McMullin is the only third party candidate with electoral votes, when this race goes to the House to will be between Clinton, Trump, and McMullin instead of Johnson.

And its very possible Clinton could win the popular vote and not become president.

Really? Then why did gb have to be appointed by the supreme court?

Presidents are elected by the states, not the people, consistent with the fact that we’re a Constitutional Republic not a democracy.

GWB was elected president by the states with 271 EC votes, that a majority of Americans voted for Al Gore over Bush is Constitutionally irrelevant, and further proof that we’re not a democracy.

 

[kaz]

You deny Democracy because it checks capitalism and government so they can not be corrupted by corporations. The Democracy we had DID this and you know it. Thats your agenda. Greed and lies. The Republic you insist on and I agree, we are both, does pretty much the same thing.

No, a democracy was appropriately rejected by the Founding Generation because it’s an inferior form of government to a Constitutional Republic.

We see evidence of the failing of democracy in Europe today, in their failed attempts to address Muslim immigration.

Some European democracies have enacted punitive measures for expressing hatred or bigotry toward Muslim immigrants, a dangerous threat to freedom of speech and expression. And those accused of bigotry have no legal recourse because such laws are enacted as a result of the ‘will of the people,’ where the people are the ultimate legal authority.

Fortunately, that’s not the case in our Constitutional Republic, where the rule of law is the ultimate authority, as hate speech and expressions of bigotry and racism are entitled to Constitutional protections, and citizens are at liberty to exhibit their fear, ignorance, and hate with impunity, but may not seek to codify that fear, ignorance, and hate because Muslims are likewise entitled to Constitutional protections, guaranteed by the First Amendment.

The genius of the American Republic is its respect for, and acknowledgement of, the Constitution, its case law, and the rule of law – far superior to any democracy.

Wow, amazing, this is incredibly lucid for you, Clayton. Well done.

Now read what you just wrote and start doing it

 

[kaz]

Why Are We A Democracy?
We are not a democracy....Bush Jr. didn't win the popular vote in 2000, the Supreme Court overruled the popular vote.

What is this ignorance? The popular vote was never going to determine that election. Electoral votes determine the presidency. And George Bush won them no matter how many times democrats demanded recounts.

The popular vote wont matter this election. For example Gary Johnson may come in third in the popular vote. But if McMullin is the only third party candidate with electoral votes, when this race goes to the House to will be between Clinton, Trump, and McMullin instead of Johnson.

And its very possible Clinton could win the popular vote and not become president.

Really? Then why did gb have to be appointed by the supreme court?

Presidents are elected by the states, not the people, consistent with the fact that we’re a Constitutional Republic not a democracy.

GWB was elected president by the states with 271 EC votes, that a majority of Americans voted for Al Gore over Bush is Constitutionally irrelevant, and further proof that we’re not a democracy.

Not disagreeing with you on this, just commenting. To make it work, the States/Republics do have to be Democracies though, and they all are

 

[yiostheoy]

george bush wasnt appointed by the supreme court....wow...and I go to search to find the articles Ive had before?....and I find nothing. Not one single morsal. Nothing....gone.

Bush v. Gore - Wikipedia

Though technically NOT an "appointment" is was de facto one.

 

[yiostheoy]

Not disagreeing with you on this, just commenting. To make it work, the States/Republics do have to be Democracies though, and they all are

The "states" are NOT democracies either.

They are instead mini democratic republics themselves.

Some states call themselves commonwealths.

Some call themselves republics.

But none of them calls itself a "democracy" simply because they are indeed NOT democracies.

Not even the cities are democracies either.

 

[kaz]

george bush wasnt appointed by the supreme court....wow...and I go to search to find the articles Ive had before?....and I find nothing. Not one single morsal. Nothing....gone.

Bush v. Gore - Wikipedia

Though technically NOT an "appointment" is was de facto one.

Florida counted the votes, Bush won. Florida recounted the votes, Bush won. The Florida legislature had created the laws for certifying the election. The Florida Executive branch followed those laws.

How on earth can even in your partisan Democrat mind do you find "appointed" or "de facto" appointed out of that?

 

[Windship]

The problem is there are variations of each word. That can leave them the same or different

Is not hard to understand..."by the people for the people"....jeeze...whats next?...get rid of the Constitution?...yes. You for that too?

Where did I say that? What are you smoking?

This hair splitting argument is boring as shit

Yeah, I thought there might be some confusion. I should not have used your quote. I wasnt speaking of you, sorry.

 

[kaz]

Not disagreeing with you on this, just commenting. To make it work, the States/Republics do have to be Democracies though, and they all are

The "states" are NOT democracies either.

They are also mini democratic republics.

Some states call themselves commonwealths.

Some call themselves republics.

But none of them calls itself a "democracy" simply because they are indeed NOT democracies.

Not even the cities are democracies either.

They are not pure Democracies, but they are representative Democracies