Why Can't the Pro-Choice Crowd Be Honest?

[AllieBaba]

You don't even have an argument. Is telling me I should be involved in child advocacy an "argument"?

 

[Skynet]

You don't even have an argument. Is telling me I should be involved in child advocacy an "argument"?

no i asked the question as to if you care as much about living children as unborn children and you simply failed to answer. if you care as much about living children, i asked if you were involved in child advocacy? do you volunteer at school, and after school programs. do you promote parental responsibility and have children removed from unfit parents.

it seems to me that all you do is campaign against abortion, but you dont follow that same passion when it comes to actually affecting the lives of children.

"I am however, concerned about what they do to children."

those are your exact words. if that is really your concern, what else are you doing to help the children beside campaigning against abortion?

 

[Dr.Drock]

You don't even have an argument. Is telling me I should be involved in child advocacy an "argument"?

no i asked the question as to if you care as much about living children as unborn children and you simply failed to answer. if you care as much about living children, i asked if you were involved in child advocacy? do you volunteer at school, and after school programs. do you promote parental responsibility and have children removed from unfit parents.

it seems to me that all you do is campaign against abortion, but you dont follow that same passion when it comes to actually affecting the lives of children.

"I am however, concerned about what they do to children."

those are your exact words. if that is really your concern, what else are you doing to help the children beside campaigning against abortion?

The best way to find out if a pro-lifer is actually pro-life in principle is ask them their views on wars that aren't imminent to the defense of the United States.

 

[Skynet]

i always find it hard to believe that all these pro-lifers talk about the "children" and wanting them to have a voice, but you rarely find one of them that is actually involved in child advocacy (except for their own) on any level. they seem so enamored in abortion argument, they forget all about them once they are actually born.

 

[JBeukema]

this difference is that pro lifers and pro choicers have a differing opinion on when life begins

So you readily admit that the difference is that you're a lying sack of shit?

Earth is not flat. There is no room for 'what you think' when it comes to matters of scientifically verifiable facts about the universe.

whether it is at conception, or at birth and i do not think this will ever change.

So you freely admit that you will never stop lying or even consider the possibility of being honest because abortionism is a religion and it is a matter of faith to you?

Sorry, but evolution has been observed and creationism is not science. There is no rrom for your 'opinion' [religion] when it comes to matters of science

Have you been drinking that California water again?

 

[Skynet]

this difference is that pro lifers and pro choicers have a differing opinion on when life begins

So you readily admit that the difference is that you're a lying sack of shit?

Earth is not flat. There is no room for 'what you think' when it comes to matters of scientifically verifiable facts about the universe.

whether it is at conception, or at birth and i do not think this will ever change.

So you freely admit that you will never stop lying or even consider the possibility of being honest because abortionism is a religion and it is a matter of faith to you?

Sorry, but evolution has been observed and creationism is not science. There is no rrom for your 'opinion' [religion] when it comes to matters of science

Have you been drinking that California water again?

are you ready to admit that your dumbest piece of shit on planet? what they hell are you talking about? your mindless rant about the earth being flat, or abortion being a religion is about what?

you obviously cant comprehend english as im a pro choicer not a pro lifer, which hence mean for me life begins at birth (whether that is 20 weeks, 30 weeks or full term) not conception. every the courts still debate this.

 

[AllieBaba]

I love the "your a big fat idiot that don't know english" argument...

 

[grunt11b]

So we can assume that you are in favor of social programs in place to assist poor families and single mothers?

Yes.. they are called voluntary CHARITIES... feel free to VOLUNTARILY donate to them...

As for forced government entitlements, that's a different story

So you are fine with the government forcing women to birth their babies but are against the government helping them out after they are born.

At least someone admits it.

I am for someone being responsible enough to be able to support a child before they decide to spread their legs and place the responsibility off on the tax payer.
Not being able to afford a child is no reason to murder it, and lets be honest, that's no excuse anyways because like you said, the government will help right?

 

[AllieBaba]

You don't even have an argument. Is telling me I should be involved in child advocacy an "argument"?

no i asked the question as to if you care as much about living children as unborn children and you simply failed to answer. if you care as much about living children, i asked if you were involved in child advocacy? do you volunteer at school, and after school programs. do you promote parental responsibility and have children removed from unfit parents.

it seems to me that all you do is campaign against abortion, but you dont follow that same passion when it comes to actually affecting the lives of children.

"I am however, concerned about what they do to children."

those are your exact words. if that is really your concern, what else are you doing to help the children beside campaigning against abortion?

Campaigning to save their lives isn't enough?

 

[Skynet]

You don't even have an argument. Is telling me I should be involved in child advocacy an "argument"?

no i asked the question as to if you care as much about living children as unborn children and you simply failed to answer. if you care as much about living children, i asked if you were involved in child advocacy? do you volunteer at school, and after school programs. do you promote parental responsibility and have children removed from unfit parents.

it seems to me that all you do is campaign against abortion, but you dont follow that same passion when it comes to actually affecting the lives of children.

"I am however, concerned about what they do to children."

those are your exact words. if that is really your concern, what else are you doing to help the children beside campaigning against abortion?

Campaigning to save their lives isn't enough?

what if their quality of life is in the gutter? are you gonna take care of that child when a parent cant? what if they are neglected or abused? what if they die from poverty? what are you doing about that?

 

[traveler52]

pro-abortion .

No person is "Pro-Abortion", they are simply supporting the Right of A Woman to choose for herself, what medical treatment she wants.

You however support the "Right of The Government to decide Medical Care".

You want the "Government in the Doctor's Office".

You want the "Government in The Operating Room".

You want the "Government to get inbetween Doctor and the Patient".

You want "The Government To Make Decisions best decided by the Doctor and the Patient".

You support Big Government.

Not Me. I respect the right of a Woman to choose for herself, absent any Governmental Involvement in a decision that the Government has no right to decide.

 

[Immanuel]

pro-abortion .

No person is "Pro-Abortion", they are simply supporting the Right of A Woman to choose for herself, what medical treatment she wants. With reservations, I disagree here. There are few people who are pro-abortion. But there are some. The vast majority of Pro-choice people are not pro-abortion. They believe rather that the government should stay out of the decision. That is different than being "pro"-abortion. Those who are would be the kind of people bent on creating a "master" race and unfortunately, they do still exist although they have been relegated to the corners of obscurity... may they rot there forever.

You however support the "Right of The Government to decide Medical Care". It is the liberals that forced Health Care Reform down our throats last year, not conservatives.

You want the "Government in the Doctor's Office". Health Care Reform?

You want the "Government in The Operating Room". Health Care Reform?

You want the "Government to get inbetween Doctor and the Patient". Health Care Reform?

You want "The Government To Make Decisions best decided by the Doctor and the Patient". Health Care Reform?

You support Big Government. Health Care Reform?

Not Me. I respect the right of a Woman to choose for herself, absent any Governmental Involvement in a decision that the Government has no right to decide. So as long as it is something you approve of you want the government to stay out, but in all other health related decisions, the government should decide?

It seems to be that both parties are pulling for big government and bureaucratic control of our health decisions.

Immie

 

[AllieBaba]

no i asked the question as to if you care as much about living children as unborn children and you simply failed to answer. if you care as much about living children, i asked if you were involved in child advocacy? do you volunteer at school, and after school programs. do you promote parental responsibility and have children removed from unfit parents.

it seems to me that all you do is campaign against abortion, but you dont follow that same passion when it comes to actually affecting the lives of children.



those are your exact words. if that is really your concern, what else are you doing to help the children beside campaigning against abortion?

Campaigning to save their lives isn't enough?

what if their quality of life is in the gutter? are you gonna take care of that child when a parent cant? what if they are neglected or abused? what if they die from poverty? what are you doing about that?

Die of poverty?

How does one *die of poverty*?

And why do I have to volunteer to take care of the children you want dead?

There is no justification for killing children. You don't kill children because you don't like the life you think they might eventually live. You don't kill children because you don't have the job you always dreamed of. You don't kill children because you have 2.3 other children already, and don't want anymore. You don't kill children because you want their money, and you don't kill children to protect your own money.

Because it still is just killing children. Murder is murder. Lots of murderers have justification, in their own minds, for the murder. So what? It's still murder.

 

[AllieBaba]

Hey my avie is back.

This is sort of fun..I don't know from one minute to the next what my avie or siggy is going to be....

 

[Skynet]

Campaigning to save their lives isn't enough?

what if their quality of life is in the gutter? are you gonna take care of that child when a parent cant? what if they are neglected or abused? what if they die from poverty? what are you doing about that?

Die of poverty?

How does one *die of poverty*?

And why do I have to volunteer to take care of the children you want dead?

There is no justification for killing children. You don't kill children because you don't like the life you think they might eventually live. You don't kill children because you don't have the job you always dreamed of. You don't kill children because you have 2.3 other children already, and don't want anymore. You don't kill children because you want their money, and you don't kill children to protect your own money.

Because it still is just killing children. Murder is murder. Lots of murderers have justification, in their own minds, for the murder. So what? It's still murder.

You can die of poverty yes, its called affects of malnutrition or access to basic services such as shelter, clothing and medical care.

you should also read the definition of murder... since you probably havent here it is:

Murder - the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought.

since not part of abortion meets this definition, abortion does not equal murder. you may think so in your mind, but in legal world and world in which we live they are not one in the same.

any what point during this entire discussion did i say i wanted children "dead?" cause id love to see where i used those actual words. you simply making things up to suit your argument once again. this whole time i have been simply pro choice. leaving the decision of abortion to the mother, not you, not the government, not the church no one else but the mother. i do not condone murder of anyone, and especially not children. you think because someone advocate for a womans right to choose that equals advocating for murder? you are sorely mistaken. i see this as a decision that only a woman and her doctor should discuss and have control over.

what gives you the right to tell a woman what to do with her body?

 

[Skynet]

pro-abortion .

No person is "Pro-Abortion", they are simply supporting the Right of A Woman to choose for herself, what medical treatment she wants. With reservations, I disagree here. There are few people who are pro-abortion. But there are some. The vast majority of Pro-choice people are not pro-abortion. They believe rather that the government should stay out of the decision. That is different than being "pro"-abortion. Those who are would be the kind of people bent on creating a "master" race and unfortunately, they do still exist although they have been relegated to the corners of obscurity... may they rot there forever.

You however support the "Right of The Government to decide Medical Care". It is the liberals that forced Health Care Reform down our throats last year, not conservatives.

You want the "Government in the Doctor's Office". Health Care Reform?

You want the "Government in The Operating Room". Health Care Reform?

You want the "Government to get inbetween Doctor and the Patient". Health Care Reform?

You want "The Government To Make Decisions best decided by the Doctor and the Patient". Health Care Reform?

You support Big Government. Health Care Reform?

Not Me. I respect the right of a Woman to choose for herself, absent any Governmental Involvement in a decision that the Government has no right to decide. So as long as it is something you approve of you want the government to stay out, but in all other health related decisions, the government should decide?

It seems to be that both parties are pulling for big government and bureaucratic control of our health decisions.

Immie

Can you please cite and reference specific sections of the health care bill that will back up your claims?

Because i have read the bill and no where in the bill is does it state the government will have control over doctor patient decisions.

 

[Immanuel]

No person is "Pro-Abortion", they are simply supporting the Right of A Woman to choose for herself, what medical treatment she wants. With reservations, I disagree here. There are few people who are pro-abortion. But there are some. The vast majority of Pro-choice people are not pro-abortion. They believe rather that the government should stay out of the decision. That is different than being "pro"-abortion. Those who are would be the kind of people bent on creating a "master" race and unfortunately, they do still exist although they have been relegated to the corners of obscurity... may they rot there forever.

You however support the "Right of The Government to decide Medical Care". It is the liberals that forced Health Care Reform down our throats last year, not conservatives.

You want the "Government in the Doctor's Office". Health Care Reform?

You want the "Government in The Operating Room". Health Care Reform?

You want the "Government to get inbetween Doctor and the Patient". Health Care Reform?

You want "The Government To Make Decisions best decided by the Doctor and the Patient". Health Care Reform?

You support Big Government. Health Care Reform?

Not Me. I respect the right of a Woman to choose for herself, absent any Governmental Involvement in a decision that the Government has no right to decide. So as long as it is something you approve of you want the government to stay out, but in all other health related decisions, the government should decide?

It seems to be that both parties are pulling for big government and bureaucratic control of our health decisions.

Immie

Can you please cite and reference specific sections of the health care bill that will back up your claims?

Because i have read the bill and no where in the bill is does it state the government will have control over doctor patient decisions.

You have read the entire bill?

Somehow I doubt this.

Health Care Reform is the first step in the direction of Single Payer Health Insurance. Our beloved President informed us that the goal was SPHI in 15 to 20 years. SPHI is governmental interference to the max.

Thank God that the Republicans won the house in 2010, maybe having done so will end (or at least hinder) this idiotic attempt to put us all at the mercy of bureaucrats.

Edit: Although, the Republicans are no less interested in such a plan as the Democrats. The Republicans would be just as happy to let the Dems take responsibility for that removal of our rights as the Dems were when Bush and Co. squandered our civil rights with the Patriot Act.

Immie

 

[AllieBaba]

what if their quality of life is in the gutter? are you gonna take care of that child when a parent cant? what if they are neglected or abused? what if they die from poverty? what are you doing about that?

Die of poverty?

How does one *die of poverty*?

And why do I have to volunteer to take care of the children you want dead?

There is no justification for killing children. You don't kill children because you don't like the life you think they might eventually live. You don't kill children because you don't have the job you always dreamed of. You don't kill children because you have 2.3 other children already, and don't want anymore. You don't kill children because you want their money, and you don't kill children to protect your own money.

Because it still is just killing children. Murder is murder. Lots of murderers have justification, in their own minds, for the murder. So what? It's still murder.

You can die of poverty yes, its called affects of malnutrition or access to basic services such as shelter, clothing and medical care.

you should also read the definition of murder... since you probably havent here it is:

Murder - the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought.

since not part of abortion meets this definition, abortion does not equal murder. you may think so in your mind, but in legal world and world in which we live they are not one in the same.

any what point during this entire discussion did i say i wanted children "dead?" cause id love to see where i used those actual words. you simply making things up to suit your argument once again. this whole time i have been simply pro choice. leaving the decision of abortion to the mother, not you, not the government, not the church no one else but the mother. i do not condone murder of anyone, and especially not children. you think because someone advocate for a womans right to choose that equals advocating for murder? you are sorely mistaken. i see this as a decision that only a woman and her doctor should discuss and have control over.

what gives you the right to tell a woman what to do with her body?

I reserve the right to tell women they should not kill children, even their own.

 

[Skynet]

Die of poverty?

How does one *die of poverty*?

And why do I have to volunteer to take care of the children you want dead?

There is no justification for killing children. You don't kill children because you don't like the life you think they might eventually live. You don't kill children because you don't have the job you always dreamed of. You don't kill children because you have 2.3 other children already, and don't want anymore. You don't kill children because you want their money, and you don't kill children to protect your own money.

Because it still is just killing children. Murder is murder. Lots of murderers have justification, in their own minds, for the murder. So what? It's still murder.

You can die of poverty yes, its called affects of malnutrition or access to basic services such as shelter, clothing and medical care.

you should also read the definition of murder... since you probably havent here it is:

Murder - the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought.

since not part of abortion meets this definition, abortion does not equal murder. you may think so in your mind, but in legal world and world in which we live they are not one in the same.

any what point during this entire discussion did i say i wanted children "dead?" cause id love to see where i used those actual words. you simply making things up to suit your argument once again. this whole time i have been simply pro choice. leaving the decision of abortion to the mother, not you, not the government, not the church no one else but the mother. i do not condone murder of anyone, and especially not children. you think because someone advocate for a womans right to choose that equals advocating for murder? you are sorely mistaken. i see this as a decision that only a woman and her doctor should discuss and have control over.

what gives you the right to tell a woman what to do with her body?

I reserve the right to tell women they should not kill children, even their own.

again, thank you for ignoring 90% of my argument again. but anyways....

since abortion is not "illegal" it is still not equal to say "murder", "kill", "butcher" or whatever other moniker you want to use.

and yes you can tell a woman she shouldnt have an abortion, but you dont have the legal standing to stop her, nor should you. you have no right to tell a woman how to make a medical decision. that is for her an her doctor, you just fail to see this.

 

[Cecilie1200]

So tell me, how can you sleep at night knowing you are completely fabricating a story in order to justify legalized slaughter of our most vulnerable population? Doesn't it give you pause when you dismiss the evidence which points to the polar opposite of what you claim? Do you dismiss all evidence in other areas of your life, if the facts don't jibe with your world view? How can a person live that way?

At the end of the day, you see these foetus's as human being, while others don't. That's the bottom line. I consider the US part of the civilised world, yet they are the only country in that spectrum that has this debate. The rest of us have moved on, albeit with a very small minority in most countries objecting to abortions.

The reason the US is on a different plain to the rest of us is due mainly to the religious zealotry of the Fundie Christians. I'm not saying that all people who are anti abortion are Christians, or even fundie Christians, but the vast majority are. And once you start with that argument - and you do fit that bill Allie - then you lose. Keep your religious beliefs out of other peoples' business.

Missed this post earlier. I think you are very wrong as to the reason the U.S. still debates this as vigorously as we do.

My belief is that the reason this goes on as it does is because of our political system and the two parties that govern us. Because of the obscurity of our current laws in this regard and the fact that it is such a heated topic, Both parties use this topic as a wedge between the voters. If Roe had not been so poorly decided and so frigging vague, things would be different here. We could have come to some sort of common ground and common sense solutions long ago. Instead the parties and the extremists on both sides don't want that. They have the voters right where they want them... at each others throats. The party that wins is the party that gets the most voters on their side.

May the parties rot in hell!

Immie

The debate goes on because the people were never given a say in the issue, and for the most part, this is not a country that takes well to being handed fait accompli from The Powers On High. Had this been decided by the people and/or their elected representatives, there would still be disagreement and attempts to change things, but I doubt it would have this level of vitriol.