Why Can't the Pro-Choice Crowd Be Honest?

[Zoom-boing]

The best way to find out if a pro-lifer is actually pro-life in principle is ask them their views on wars that aren't imminent to the defense of the United States.

Since there was no such thing as a Pro-Live Movement until after the Roe opinion, I think it is fairly obvious that the term deals specifically with the life of those being aborted.

That said, there are many pro-lifers who are also anti-war but war and abortion are two different issues.

But Allie said she cherished life and many of the pro-lifers say the same thing, if someone supposedly has that principle than it should extend to all issues.

But more often than not the supposed pro-life people are the ones beating the war drum the loudest, which makes you think the only reason they're pro choice is because either their bureacrats and talking heads tell them to be or because of their religion.

??

Or perhaps, just maybe, the reason pro-lifers are so vocal is because the unborn can't speak for themselves.

 

[manifold]

the reason pro-lifers are so vocal is because the unborn can't speak for themselves.

I can't argue with that. Rightwingnuts sure are fond of speaking for others.

 

[Immanuel]

The best way to find out if a pro-lifer is actually pro-life in principle is ask them their views on wars that aren't imminent to the defense of the United States.

Since there was no such thing as a Pro-Live Movement until after the Roe opinion, I think it is fairly obvious that the term deals specifically with the life of those being aborted.

That said, there are many pro-lifers who are also anti-war but war and abortion are two different issues.

But Allie said she cherished life and many of the pro-lifers say the same thing, if someone supposedly has that principle than it should extend to all issues.

But more often than not the supposed pro-life people are the ones beating the war drum the loudest, which makes you think the only reason they're pro choice is because either their bureacrats and talking heads tell them to be or because of their religion.

I don't see a lot of Pro-lifers beating the drums of war. Can you name some, please? I know I loosely supported the war in Iraq up to and only as far as the capture of Saddam Hussein. That was where my support (above and beyond the support of our troops who are doing their jobs) ended.

On this site and others I have participated in, I saw a lot of Republicans hoot and holler for Bush's wars, but how many of those would I consider to be pro-life for any other reason than that it is part of the Republican platform? That number would be pretty close to zero.

Immie

 

[Dr.Drock]

Since there was no such thing as a Pro-Live Movement until after the Roe opinion, I think it is fairly obvious that the term deals specifically with the life of those being aborted.

That said, there are many pro-lifers who are also anti-war but war and abortion are two different issues.

But Allie said she cherished life and many of the pro-lifers say the same thing, if someone supposedly has that principle than it should extend to all issues.

But more often than not the supposed pro-life people are the ones beating the war drum the loudest, which makes you think the only reason they're pro choice is because either their bureacrats and talking heads tell them to be or because of their religion.

I don't see a lot of Pro-lifers beating the drums of war. Can you name some, please? I know I loosely supported the war in Iraq up to and only as far as the capture of Saddam Hussein. That was where my support (above and beyond the support of our troops who are doing their jobs) ended.

On this site and others I have participated in, I saw a lot of Republicans hoot and holler for Bush's wars, but how many of those would I consider to be pro-life for any other reason than that it is part of the Republican platform? That number would be pretty close to zero.

Immie

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one Immie. In my interaction I'd say about 90-95% of those looking favorably on the Iraq War, those wanting war with Iran, those wanting war with North Korea and others tend to be pro-life on the abortion issue.

Which is stunning to me to say out of one side of your mouth that you cherish the life of the unborn, but you're demanding an action that you know will result in thousands upon thousands of dead born babies and children.

 

[Immanuel]

But Allie said she cherished life and many of the pro-lifers say the same thing, if someone supposedly has that principle than it should extend to all issues.

But more often than not the supposed pro-life people are the ones beating the war drum the loudest, which makes you think the only reason they're pro choice is because either their bureacrats and talking heads tell them to be or because of their religion.

I don't see a lot of Pro-lifers beating the drums of war. Can you name some, please? I know I loosely supported the war in Iraq up to and only as far as the capture of Saddam Hussein. That was where my support (above and beyond the support of our troops who are doing their jobs) ended.

On this site and others I have participated in, I saw a lot of Republicans hoot and holler for Bush's wars, but how many of those would I consider to be pro-life for any other reason than that it is part of the Republican platform? That number would be pretty close to zero.

Immie

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one Immie. In my interaction I'd say about 90-95% of those looking favorably on the Iraq War, those wanting war with Iran, those wanting war with North Korea and others tend to be pro-life on the abortion issue.

Which is stunning to me to say out of one side of your mouth that you cherish the life of the unborn, but you're demanding an action that you know will result in thousands upon thousands of dead born babies and children.

My point being that there is pro-life and then there is pro-life because of the Republican platform. Just as there are people who are pro-choice and then their are people who are devoutly pro-choice almost to the point of appearing pro-abortion. I'll name some or at least ID as I don't care to look up at least one of their names: Patricia Ireland, the founder of Emily's List, Kate Michelman? one time President of NARAL - pro-choice America, Margaret Sanger. These people are devoutly pro-choice. And then there are people such as yourself who are pro-choice because you want the government out of the lives of women.

Just because someone is against abortion because the Republican platform is opposed to abortion does not mean that they are "pro-life". Unless of course you want to put yourself in line with Margaret Sanger or Kate Michelman and admit that Pro-choice really means Pro-abortion.

Immie

 

[AllieBaba]

Pro-choice is pro-abortion.

We already established that, which caused the pro-abortion crowd to jump ship pre-board meltdown.

 

[Immanuel]

Pro-choice is pro-abortion.

We already established that, which caused the pro-abortion crowd to jump ship pre-board meltdown.

Well, I am sure in your own mind that has been established.

It seems that you are of the assumption that when you say something, that makes it to be true.

Unfortunately, I have seen not one person who is pro-choice "jump ship pre-board meltdown".

For the record, I do not recognize you as some kind of ultimate authority on this or any subject.

Immie

 

[Mr_Rockhead]

The best way to find out if a pro-lifer is actually pro-life in principle is ask them their views on wars that aren't imminent to the defense of the United States.

Since there was no such thing as a Pro-Live Movement until after the Roe opinion, I think it is fairly obvious that the term deals specifically with the life of those being aborted.

That said, there are many pro-lifers who are also anti-war but war and abortion are two different issues.

But Allie said she cherished life and many of the pro-lifers say the same thing, if someone supposedly has that principle than it should extend to all issues.

But more often than not the supposed pro-life people are the ones beating the war drum the loudest, which makes you think the only reason they're pro life is because either their bureacrats and talking heads tell them to be or because of their religion.

The only people I see trying to extend the meaning of the term (to include things like war or the death penalty) are people who are not pro-life and who do not have a clue what it means to be pro-life.

The term applies to one thing and one thing only – advocacy for the life of those who are killed during an abortion.

 

[AllieBaba]

I know, you don't recognize facts pretty much straight down the line.

Still, it's true. I posted the definitions of pro-choice and pro-abortion, and there was no doubt. At that time, Drock and GT determined there was no point to discussing the issue and announced they would not be discussing it anymore. Primarily because they couldn't answer simple questions without demonstrating their pro-abortion status.

 

[Mr_Rockhead]

Since there was no such thing as a Pro-Live Movement until after the Roe opinion, I think it is fairly obvious that the term deals specifically with the life of those being aborted.

That said, there are many pro-lifers who are also anti-war but war and abortion are two different issues.

But Allie said she cherished life and many of the pro-lifers say the same thing, if someone supposedly has that principle than it should extend to all issues.

But more often than not the supposed pro-life people are the ones beating the war drum the loudest, which makes you think the only reason they're pro choice is because either their bureacrats and talking heads tell them to be or because of their religion.

I'll go ahead and delete this post once you've corrected the typo/freudian slip.

I knew there was something confusing about this reply but I never saw it.

Good pick up.

 

[AllieBaba]

Since there was no such thing as a Pro-Live Movement until after the Roe opinion, I think it is fairly obvious that the term deals specifically with the life of those being aborted.

That said, there are many pro-lifers who are also anti-war but war and abortion are two different issues.

But Allie said she cherished life and many of the pro-lifers say the same thing, if someone supposedly has that principle than it should extend to all issues.

But more often than not the supposed pro-life people are the ones beating the war drum the loudest, which makes you think the only reason they're pro life is because either their bureacrats and talking heads tell them to be or because of their religion.

The only people I see trying to extend the meaning of the term (to include things like war or the death penalty) are people who are not pro-life and who do not have a clue what it means to be pro-life.

The term applies to one thing and one thing only – advocacy for the life of those who are killed during an abortion.

Logical fallacy.

 

[Zoom-boing]

the reason pro-lifers are so vocal is because the unborn can't speak for themselves.

I can't argue with that. Rightwingnuts sure are fond of speaking for others.

Wow, that was

 

[Mr_Rockhead]

Since there was no such thing as a Pro-Live Movement until after the Roe opinion, I think it is fairly obvious that the term deals specifically with the life of those being aborted.

That said, there are many pro-lifers who are also anti-war but war and abortion are two different issues.

But Allie said she cherished life and many of the pro-lifers say the same thing, if someone supposedly has that principle than it should extend to all issues.

But more often than not the supposed pro-life people are the ones beating the war drum the loudest, which makes you think the only reason they're pro choice is because either their bureacrats and talking heads tell them to be or because of their religion.

??

Or perhaps, just maybe, the reason pro-lifers are so vocal is because the unborn can't speak for themselves.

Yes, that is one of the main reasons I speak up for them.

Since they can’t look back at us and beg for their lives, I feel they need an advocate who can.

And I just wish I knew how to better get that message across.

 

[AllieBaba]

The best way to advocate is to stick to the facts; the pro-abortionists can't argue them, and won't. Instead they revert to personal attack, lies, and attempts to change term definitions. Just keep coming back to the truth.

 

[Mr_Rockhead]

The best way to advocate is to stick to the facts; the pro-abortionists can't argue them, and won't. Instead they revert to personal attack, lies, and attempts to change term definitions. Just keep coming back to the truth.

I started out as a pro-choice, sixties liberal but, through a long process of self-examination that lasted almost two decades, I finally had to swallow my pride and admit that the ones who truly needed my advocacy in this matter were the actual victims in the procedure.

So, until someone can provide me some cold, hard, scientific data that proves we are not dealing with a new, unique, human being, I will continue to come back for as long as it takes because I have a lot of making-up to do.

 

[AllieBaba]

I also feel differently than I did when I was younger. And (as I told RH privately) I have tremendous empathy for the women in this situation. I don't judge them, it's a legal procedure. I'm not naive enough to think that women won't get abortions anyway...they will find ways both illegal and illegal to do it (they do that now). But ultimately, it's still about a life. That can't be negotiated away, and the law absolutely shouldn't tell us specifically that it's a life that it's okay to take.

I think it's a mistake, as a society, to condone the killing of our own children, at whatever stage of development, at whatever state of sentience, at whatever shape, color or size. I think it's a hallmark of a civilization's death.

 

[Cecilie1200]

im out, enjoy the shortned life due to the high blood pressure and stress

And right on schedule, the talking-point troll blows through the last one on the list and runs away, to be replaced by the next troll on the rotation.

I wonder if they're at least getting minimum wage for this.

Sounds like you’ve been down this path before.

Did you have a chance to read the entire thread (I realize it's kinda long)? Right off the bat, some troll or other started out with this EXACT SAME spiel, almost word for word. We slapped him down with the EXACT SAME argument, and he ran off. Couple of pages later, BAM! There was another troll, spewing the same garbage, also in nearly the exact wording, as though it was something new and original and clever that he just thought up. We ran through the same debate, got to this point, and away he ran. Couple of pages later, voila! New troll, same argument, same air of "I'll bet you've never looked at it THIS way before". This one is at least the fourth or fifth, possibly more, JUST IN THIS THREAD, to present the same argument, in the same words, as though they're on some sort of hellish recording loop. And it happens every damned time this topic comes up.

 

[AllieBaba]

Yup.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The best way to find out if a pro-lifer is actually pro-life in principle is ask them their views on wars that aren't imminent to the defense of the United States.

Since there was no such thing as a Pro-Live Movement until after the Roe opinion, I think it is fairly obvious that the term deals specifically with the life of those being aborted.

That said, there are many pro-lifers who are also anti-war but war and abortion are two different issues.

But Allie said she cherished life and many of the pro-lifers say the same thing, if someone supposedly has that principle than it should extend to all issues.

But more often than not the supposed pro-life people are the ones beating the war drum the loudest, which makes you think the only reason they're pro life is because either their bureacrats and talking heads tell them to be or because of their religion.

Here's a thought, Dreck. Why don't you stick to articulating YOUR principles (if one can even call them that) and making THEM sound coherent (you have your work cut out for you), rather than trying to tell other people how they should articulate and practice THEIR principles? When I need a pro-abort to tell me how to be pro-life . . . well, I shall never need that, so stop wasting my time trying to pretend to a moral high ground you're light-years away from deserving.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The best way to advocate is to stick to the facts; the pro-abortionists can't argue them, and won't. Instead they revert to personal attack, lies, and attempts to change term definitions. Just keep coming back to the truth.

And rotating trolls to try to batter us down with inane, mindless repetitions of the same debunked arguments over and over. Don't forget that.