Why Can't the Pro-Choice Crowd Be Honest?

[AllieBaba]

I am more than a fetus. I am more than a blastocryst. I am more than an embryo.

No, you aren't (unless by "more", you're referring to mass. In which case, Michael Moore is, presumably, "more" than you). You're just different than they are, the same as you are different from an infant or a toddler (again, we're probably just talking about mass, since this post didn't impress me with your difference in intelligence from your average toddler).
no we are talking about feelings, intellect, thoughts, sensations...everything that makes us alive and human. everything we use to describe the human experience.


In much the same way I feel no need to declare my superiority to others based on my skin pigment, I feel no need to declare my superiority to others based on size and chronology. But then, unlike some people, I have something REAL in my life to be proud of.
what pride in not respecting women as full people who control their bodies?


"Pre-life"? Well, now we know WHY you have nothing to be proud of other than "Look how many cells I've managed to acquire!" Scientific acumen is clearly out of the realm of possibility for you.

Congratulations on your outstanding cellular production, though. We're very proud of you. :at, pat::

and even if they were - no one has the right to use my body or anyone else's. no one has the right to feed off of another or intrude on their rights.

you can't have fetal rights and have women still be treated as autonomous, dignified people

What kind of dumb **** discusses nature and biology in terms of "rights", as though there's some sort of Supreme Court of the Universe to which one can appeal the "unfairness" of one's anatomy? Oh, yeah, the kind of dumb **** who fucks around without protections and NEEDS to be able to kill her own child.

I find it very, very amusing that YOU are concerned about being treated as "dignified", though.

sorry you have no self respect and lash out against your own.

from any angle you cut it, a woman is a person and if she wants to end a pregnancy its her right and her choice.

Not when she kills another person, the baby, in ending the pregnancy.

Nobody has the right to kill another. Not for any reason.

 

[Vanquish]

I've still never heard a good response to the question...

Why, if abortion could be murder...would you take the chance.
At best you have a 50/50 chance of murdering someone if you perform abortions.
If you dont, then you know for sure that you're not murdering someone.

There's never been a decent reply to that. Not here in this thread...or in any abortion discussion I've ever had.

 

[Mr_Rockhead]

But, eventually, I just jumped in because abortion is one of the topics I like to debate.

May I ask why?

It's filled with over dramatic shmoes who will call you evil for disagreeing with them.

And really it all boils down to "Do you think a human life is valuable all the time or just when they're sentient/capable of pain/whatever"

There's no possible way to answer that question objectively.

All I ever see is stupid slippery slopes and yelling.

I guess I like the topic because there is very little middle ground.

And, I agree, that it does boil down to “what point we choose to place a value on another human’s life”.

Also, I think an objective answer to the question might be: since another person’s life always has value to them, it should always have value to me.

 

[Mr_Rockhead]

I am more than a fetus. I am more than a blastocryst. I am more than an embryo.

if you are not, thats on you.

those pre-life forms are not my equal.

and even if they were - no one has the right to use my body or anyone else's. no one has the right to feed off of another or intrude on their rights.

you can't have fetal rights and have women still be treated as autonomous, dignified people

In your mind, a fetus might be all the things you say but, legally, it is, indeed, your equal (even during some of the “feeding off another” stages you mentioned).

And, by the way, the only person “using” your body during this time is mother nature. The fetal person had absolutely no say say in the matter.

 

[Gadawg73]

A woman becomes pregnant and her doctor states that because of her health she should have an abortion. She could die with child birth. The local district attorney has a mandate from his constituents and local churches NOT to allow such abortions.
Who makes the decision? The local district attorney or the family with their doctor?
Conservatives want less government and believe in family.
Liberals want big government, do not want the family making that decision as that is a government decision and liberals want government to take action.

Lie, false premise.

Please show me proposed legislation that would require women who are in danger would be denied a D&C.

You won't, because it doesn't exist. Pro lifers have never proposed that women who need to abort for medical reasons be prevented from doing so. It happens very, very rarely, but when it happens, it usually happens suddenly and even before abortion was legal, there was no problem in treatment to save the mother's life.

Nobody has ever been forced to have a baby that would kill her as a result of abortion law. Never.

But continue to pretend this is an issue. Just like you pretend that the existence of the evolution theory proves ... something....about the creation of the world, life, and the existence of God.

You also do not understand reality and this also went 20 feet over your head.
Imagine that.
WHO makes the decision that the doctor was right with his diagnosis?
If you do not know that anyone can find a doctor to write whatever they want as a diagnosis you are naive, gullibe, stupid, or in your case Allie; all 3.
I have worked worker's comp and disability cases for 30 years.
Claimant's doctor: "The patient is 90% disabled with x, y, z cindition and can not work at all."
Insurance company doctor: "The patient was hurt and is now 100% recovered and can work full time for the rest of his life.'
You folks live in LAH LAH land. Real world situations you ignore.
Doctors can be PAID CASH to write whatever you want.
Unbelievable you folks do not know this. This is the way IT WAS when abortion was illegal.
But you folks are too young to know any better.

 

[logical4u]

The number of unborn babies murdered in the human sacrifice rite (abortion) is approximately 50,000,000 and counting. The "pro-choice" supporters must be so proud.

 

[traveler52]

Why Can't The "Pro-Life" Be Honest and Admit That They Believe In "Big Government"?

They want "The Government" to decide who does and does not get Certain Medical Procedures.

They want "The Government" in the Doctor's Office.

They want "The Government" in the Operating Room.

They want "The Government" to Women What Medical Procedures They Can/Cannot Receive.

They want "The Government" to Decide Medical Care.

 

[Chris]

The number of unborn babies murdered in the human sacrifice rite (abortion) is approximately 50,000,000 and counting. The "pro-choice" supporters must be so proud.

I am extremely proud.

An embryo is NOT A HUMAN BEING. If it was, all the frozen embryos in labs around the country would have the right to carry guns.

Unwanted children are MUCH more likely to be abused. So you are pro child abuse.

War, guns, pollution, child abuse...is there no evil the Republican Party won't support?

 

[Gadawg73]

Why Can't The "Pro-Life" Be Honest and Admit That They Believe In "Big Government"?

They want "The Government" to decide who does and does not get Certain Medical Procedures.

They want "The Government" in the Doctor's Office.

They want "The Government" in the Operating Room.

They want "The Government" to Women What Medical Procedures They Can/Cannot Receive.

They want "The Government" to Decide Medical Care.

They are closet socialist liberals every one.
Sheeple too weak to know any better.

 

[Vanquish]

Why Can't The "Pro-Life" Be Honest and Admit That They Believe In "Big Government"?

They want "The Government" to decide who does and does not get Certain Medical Procedures.

They want "The Government" in the Doctor's Office.

They want "The Government" in the Operating Room.

They want "The Government" to Women What Medical Procedures They Can/Cannot Receive.

They want "The Government" to Decide Medical Care.

They are closet socialist liberals every one.
Sheeple too weak to know any better.

Thanks to both posts. Exactly on point.

 

[Mr_Rockhead]

The number of unborn babies murdered in the human sacrifice rite (abortion) is approximately 50,000,000 and counting. The "pro-choice" supporters must be so proud.

I am extremely proud.

An embryo is NOT A HUMAN BEING. If it was, all the frozen embryos in labs around the country would have the right to carry guns.

Unwanted children are MUCH more likely to be abused. So you are pro child abuse.

War, guns, pollution, child abuse...is there no evil the Republican Party won't support?

A (human) embryo may not look like what you, personally, think a human being should look like, but that does not mean it is not a human being. Sure, it may not be a baby yet, but it is just as human as the rest of us (it just happens to look a little different).

Also, once that human embryo grows old enough, it will have the right to carry a gun just like everyone else who is fortunate enough to live that long.

And, speaking of evil, do you honestly feel “unwanted children” would be better off dead simply because they might be abused? (This argument always amazes me every time I see it.)

 

[AllieBaba]

It's not just that...they want to kill off all POTENTIAL criminals before birth.

So based on the off chance that a poor child born to a young, unwed mother could turn into a criminal, it's perfectly okay to kill that child.

 

[AllieBaba]

While at the same time, they will bend over backwards to excuse and justify criminal behavior of their brethren....lib politicians, teachers, you name it.

THOSE criminals are perfectly justified.

 

[traveler52]

The number of unborn babies murdered in the human sacrifice rite (abortion) is approximately 50,000,000 and counting. The "pro-choice" supporters must be so proud.

I am extremely proud.

An embryo is NOT A HUMAN BEING. If it was, all the frozen embryos in labs around the country would have the right to carry guns.

Unwanted children are MUCH more likely to be abused. So you are pro child abuse.

War, guns, pollution, child abuse...is there no evil the Republican Party won't support?

A (human) embryo may not look like what you, personally, think a human being should look like, but that does not mean it is not a human being. Sure, it may not be a baby yet, but it is just as human as the rest of us (it just happens to look a little different).

Also, once that human embryo grows old enough, it will have the right to carry a gun just like everyone else who is fortunate enough to live that long.

And, speaking of evil, do you honestly feel “unwanted children” would be better off dead simply because they might be abused? (This argument always amazes me every time I see it.)

The ConJobsRepug/Teabaggers love to talk to death about "The Right To Life". "The Right To Life" ends at birth.

After being born, children don't school Childen do not need food. Children do not a roof over their head.

ConJobsRepugs/Teabaggers want only one thing. An under educated, easily led and poorly paid workforce.

 

[Mr_Rockhead]

I am extremely proud.

An embryo is NOT A HUMAN BEING. If it was, all the frozen embryos in labs around the country would have the right to carry guns.

Unwanted children are MUCH more likely to be abused. So you are pro child abuse.

War, guns, pollution, child abuse...is there no evil the Republican Party won't support?

A (human) embryo may not look like what you, personally, think a human being should look like, but that does not mean it is not a human being. Sure, it may not be a baby yet, but it is just as human as the rest of us (it just happens to look a little different).

Also, once that human embryo grows old enough, it will have the right to carry a gun just like everyone else who is fortunate enough to live that long.

And, speaking of evil, do you honestly feel “unwanted children” would be better off dead simply because they might be abused? (This argument always amazes me every time I see it.)

The ConJobsRepug/Teabaggers love to talk to death about "The Right To Life". "The Right To Life" ends at birth.

After being born, children don't school Childen do not need food. Children do not a roof over their head.

ConJobsRepugs/Teabaggers want only one thing. An under educated, easily led and poorly paid workforce.

Admittedly, I am not sure what you are trying to say, but I think you are hinting it is better to have these children dead rather than burden us with the need to feed and educate them.

Well, I guess times really have changed because, back when I was pro-choice, I could never have bought-into that particular line of thinking. Nope, never, ever.

Just curious, if the unborn people could somehow look back at you and beg for their lives, would you still feel the same way about them?

Also, rather than just making broad, unproven accusations about the pro-life movement, why not try to counter some of the pro-life arguments posted here with some good, well-thought-out arguments of your own?

 

[Patrick2]

Admittedly, I am not sure what you are trying to say, but I think you are hinting it is better to have these children dead rather than burden us with the need to feed and educate them.

That's exactly what he's trying to say. Leftwingers advocate death as a solution for a number of problems:

1. Don't want to have a baby now? Get in there with the scalpels and vaccuum.

2. Relative been comotose too long? Pull the plug.

And coming soon:

3. Old people taking up too much of the obamacare budget? Crank up the death panel.

 

[Gadawg73]

Admittedly, I am not sure what you are trying to say, but I think you are hinting it is better to have these children dead rather than burden us with the need to feed and educate them.

That's exactly what he's trying to say. Leftwingers advocate death as a solution for a number of problems:

1. Don't want to have a baby now? Get in there with the scalpels and vaccuum.

2. Relative been comotose too long? Pull the plug.

And coming soon:

3. Old people taking up too much of the obamacare budget? Crank up the death panel.

There are death panels now. INSURANCE COMPANIES.

 

[Chris]

Why can't the anti abortion crowd be honest?

You want to bring MILLIONS OF UNWANTED CHILDREN into the world. Unwanted children are MUCH MORE LIKELY to be abused.

You are pro child abuse.

Is there no evil in the world that the Republican Party won't support?

 

[Chris]

The number of unborn babies murdered in the human sacrifice rite (abortion) is approximately 50,000,000 and counting. The "pro-choice" supporters must be so proud.

I am extremely proud.

An embryo is NOT A HUMAN BEING. If it was, all the frozen embryos in labs around the country would have the right to carry guns.

Unwanted children are MUCH more likely to be abused. So you are pro child abuse.

War, guns, pollution, child abuse...is there no evil the Republican Party won't support?

A (human) embryo may not look like what you, personally, think a human being should look like, but that does not mean it is not a human being. Sure, it may not be a baby yet, but it is just as human as the rest of us (it just happens to look a little different).

Also, once that human embryo grows old enough, it will have the right to carry a gun just like everyone else who is fortunate enough to live that long.

And, speaking of evil, do you honestly feel “unwanted children” would be better off dead simply because they might be abused? (This argument always amazes me every time I see it.)

An embryo is NOT A HUMAN BEING.

If it were all the thousands of frozen embryos in labs in this country would have the right to own guns.

 

[Gadawg73]

Why can't the anti abortion crowd be honest?

You want to bring MILLIONS OF UNWANTED CHILDREN into the world. Unwanted children are MUCH MORE LIKELY to be abused.

You are pro child abuse.

Is there no evil in the world that the Republican Party won't support?

I do not know of anyone that is "pro abortion". I am anti abortion.
But I am anti government being the judge of who can legally receive one and who can't.
Abortion is a family decision that no law ever stops.