Why do people hate Liberals?

[Pogo]

I read some of Pogo's postings, I don't necessarily agree with you. Pogo leans left, he has some positions that are farther left and some that are considered conservative like I have some positions that are considered far right and some that are considered liberal. Centrists generally lean right or left and often hold some views that may be considered extreme by the opposite side. Have you considered, given the tone of you response to me concerning Pogo, that maybe you're pretty far right and fall into that blind partisan category? Just a thought.
Oh and the far left probably talk about me the way you're talking about Pogo but to be honest with myself I do tend to go after the radical liberals more than I go after the reactionary right though I'm working on that.

Absolutely. Pogo sometimes drives me absolutely nuts because he THINKS like a modern American liberal which is extremely frustrating to the more pragmatic modern American conservative aka classical liberal aka libertarian. But even though he is usually wrong----he is civil with those who are civil, and he can at least articulate an argument which most modern liberals cannot. At least he thinks for himself, doesn't obfusicate and detract with huge blocks of copied and pasted nonsense, and he doesn't parrot the assigned talking points of the Left--Bush sucks. Republicans suck. Conservatives suck. Anybody right of center is hateful, greedy, selfish, and wants to dirty all the water, air, and soil on the planet and throw granny out on the street and dismantle all regulation, yadda yadda.

Those who do that are what give modern liberalism a bad name. But then debate via extremism from either the left or right diminishes the quality of USMB. But I would welcome any number of folks like Pogo to the forum.

This post should be in the dictionary as the definition of narcissism and haughty.

I suggest you actually pay attention to what conservatives and tea partiers are trying to DO in Washington, like dismantle the EPA and let polluters off the hook, cut life saving programs for the poor and allow Wall Street barracudas to feed on We, the People.

You are a perfect example of what conservatism is, and why conservatism is incompatible with democracy, prosperity, and civilization in general. It is a destructive system of inequality and prejudice that is founded on deception and has no place in the modern world.

....... ........

OK I really have to call this one out. Bfgrn, see post 2060; same applies to you.

You've got vital and well-thought-out points to make, but this my friend isn't one of them. Within the context of what we're discussing here, this post is bullshit. Foxy's at least extending a hand of respect here even if we still have ideological variances. That's a step toward open exchange. But here you seem to be pushing back toward polarization and division, and that just runs directly counter to the sentiment expressed.

We may not get there with the present thread; we may never get there at all. But let's not shoot ourselves in the proverbial foot and slam the door just because that's the way we've always done it. Nobody benefits when we push each other into corners. That's just wallowing in the same old message board shit. It's not good enough.

IMHO we all need to get off the addiction to the second personal pronoun and get onto the issues.

Sorry, this has to be said.

(/offtopic / rant off)

(for now )

 

[Foxfyre]

Absolutely. Pogo sometimes drives me absolutely nuts because he THINKS like a modern American liberal which is extremely frustrating to the more pragmatic modern American conservative aka classical liberal aka libertarian. But even though he is usually wrong----he is civil with those who are civil, and he can at least articulate an argument which most modern liberals cannot. At least he thinks for himself, doesn't obfusicate and detract with huge blocks of copied and pasted nonsense, and he doesn't parrot the assigned talking points of the Left--Bush sucks. Republicans suck. Conservatives suck. Anybody right of center is hateful, greedy, selfish, and wants to dirty all the water, air, and soil on the planet and throw granny out on the street and dismantle all regulation, yadda yadda.

Those who do that are what give modern liberalism a bad name. But then debate via extremism from either the left or right diminishes the quality of USMB. But I would welcome any number of folks like Pogo to the forum.

This post should be in the dictionary as the definition of narcissism and haughty.

I suggest you actually pay attention to what conservatives and tea partiers are trying to DO in Washington, like dismantle the EPA and let polluters off the hook, cut life saving programs for the poor and allow Wall Street barracudas to feed on We, the People.

You are a perfect example of what conservatism is, and why conservatism is incompatible with democracy, prosperity, and civilization in general. It is a destructive system of inequality and prejudice that is founded on deception and has no place in the modern world.

....... ........

OK I really have to call this one out. Bfgrn, see post 2060; same applies to you.

You've got vital and well-thought-out points to make, but this my friend isn't one of them. Within the context of what we're discussing here, this post is bullshit. Foxy's at least extending a hand of respect here even if we still have ideological variances. That's a step toward open exchange. But here you seem to be pushing back toward polarization and division, and that just runs directly counter to the sentiment expressed.

We may not get there with the present thread; we may never get there at all. But let's not shoot ourselves in the proverbial foot and slam the door just because that's the way we've always done it. Nobody benefits when we push each other into corners. That's just wallowing in the same old message board shit. It's not good enough.

IMHO we all need to get off the addiction to the second personal pronoun and get onto the issues.

Sorry, this has to be said.

(/offtopic / rant off)

(for now )

Damn, I still have to spread some rep before I can rep this one. But it only goes to show that even a stopped clock can be right twice a day. You definitely are not wrong here, you are living proof that a dedicated liberal can look past ideology to cause and effect, and I thank you for that.

 

[Bfgrn]

You are wrong. Conservatism has never been worthy of respect. They are the scourge of mankind. It's the manifestation of authoritarian parenting that metastasizes in adults.[/QUOTE]

projection is strong with this one...nice try but you just described you LIBERALS

Sorry Steph, liberals can't be bleeding hearts, weaklings, doves and peace-niks AND authoritarians.

Authoritarianism is wholly owned by the right.


While not all conservatives are authoritarians; all highly authoritarian personalities are political conservatives.
Robert Altmeyer - The Authoritarians

 

[RKMBrown]

projection is strong with this one...nice try but you just described you LIBERALS

Sorry Steph, liberals can't be bleeding hearts, weaklings, doves and peace-niks AND authoritarians.

Authoritarianism is wholly owned by the right.


While not all conservatives are authoritarians; all highly authoritarian personalities are political conservatives.
Robert Altmeyer - The Authoritarians

Define authoritarian. Then contrast that with libertarian. Then explain to me how no socialists on the left are authoritarian as they command our forces to kill citizens abroad, kill American citizens without due process, force social programs like Obama Care down our throat and FINE us if we don't agree to sign up...

How can the left be for taking away so many liberties and not be authoritarian at the same time?

 

[Bfgrn]

Absolutely. Pogo sometimes drives me absolutely nuts because he THINKS like a modern American liberal which is extremely frustrating to the more pragmatic modern American conservative aka classical liberal aka libertarian. But even though he is usually wrong----he is civil with those who are civil, and he can at least articulate an argument which most modern liberals cannot. At least he thinks for himself, doesn't obfusicate and detract with huge blocks of copied and pasted nonsense, and he doesn't parrot the assigned talking points of the Left--Bush sucks. Republicans suck. Conservatives suck. Anybody right of center is hateful, greedy, selfish, and wants to dirty all the water, air, and soil on the planet and throw granny out on the street and dismantle all regulation, yadda yadda.

Those who do that are what give modern liberalism a bad name. But then debate via extremism from either the left or right diminishes the quality of USMB. But I would welcome any number of folks like Pogo to the forum.

This post should be in the dictionary as the definition of narcissism and haughty.

I suggest you actually pay attention to what conservatives and tea partiers are trying to DO in Washington, like dismantle the EPA and let polluters off the hook, cut life saving programs for the poor and allow Wall Street barracudas to feed on We, the People.

You are a perfect example of what conservatism is, and why conservatism is incompatible with democracy, prosperity, and civilization in general. It is a destructive system of inequality and prejudice that is founded on deception and has no place in the modern world.

....... ........

OK I really have to call this one out. Bfgrn, see post 2060; same applies to you.

You've got vital and well-thought-out points to make, but this my friend isn't one of them. Within the context of what we're discussing here, this post is bullshit. Foxy's at least extending a hand of respect here even if we still have ideological variances. That's a step toward open exchange. But here you seem to be pushing back toward polarization and division, and that just runs directly counter to the sentiment expressed.

We may not get there with the present thread; we may never get there at all. But let's not shoot ourselves in the proverbial foot and slam the door just because that's the way we've always done it. Nobody benefits when we push each other into corners. That's just wallowing in the same old message board shit. It's not good enough.

IMHO we all need to get off the addiction to the second personal pronoun and get onto the issues.

Sorry, this has to be said.

(/offtopic / rant off)

(for now )

Well thank you for showing that a few compliments sent your way can deceive you. READ what the fuck she posts day in and day out, then THINK THROUGH what the consequences would be if those ideas were carried out to completion. It will lead to some group of people being thrown in the river so they can either instantly swim or PERISH. It is the very core of conservatism...people only learn by being punished.

I am a Kennedy liberal, I don't back down from always putting people first, especially the least among us.

Now, mind your OWN business...

 

[RKMBrown]

I am a Kennedy liberal, I don't back down from always putting people first, especially the least among us.

Now, mind your OWN business...

You mean the people on the left, correct? The people on the right you don't have any problem at all putting them last, correct?

 

[Bfgrn]

I am a Kennedy liberal, I don't back down from always putting people first, especially the least among us.

Now, mind your OWN business...

You mean the people on the left, correct? The people on the right you don't have any problem at all putting them last, correct?

I never side with the executioners. If you want to use the only tool conservatives learned, punishment, then I am your worst nightmare. I will fight you scum bags tooth and nail.

"It is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners"
Albert Camus

 

[numan]

'
America !! Divided We Fall !!

I hope you are all enjoying hanging separately?

.

 

[Moonglow]

'
America !! Divided We Fall !!

I hope you are all enjoying hanging separately?

.

no shit, that's has been the US's weakness all along.

 

[Pogo]

This post should be in the dictionary as the definition of narcissism and haughty.

I suggest you actually pay attention to what conservatives and tea partiers are trying to DO in Washington, like dismantle the EPA and let polluters off the hook, cut life saving programs for the poor and allow Wall Street barracudas to feed on We, the People.

You are a perfect example of what conservatism is, and why conservatism is incompatible with democracy, prosperity, and civilization in general. It is a destructive system of inequality and prejudice that is founded on deception and has no place in the modern world.

....... ........

OK I really have to call this one out. Bfgrn, see post 2060; same applies to you.

You've got vital and well-thought-out points to make, but this my friend isn't one of them. Within the context of what we're discussing here, this post is bullshit. Foxy's at least extending a hand of respect here even if we still have ideological variances. That's a step toward open exchange. But here you seem to be pushing back toward polarization and division, and that just runs directly counter to the sentiment expressed.

We may not get there with the present thread; we may never get there at all. But let's not shoot ourselves in the proverbial foot and slam the door just because that's the way we've always done it. Nobody benefits when we push each other into corners. That's just wallowing in the same old message board shit. It's not good enough.

IMHO we all need to get off the addiction to the second personal pronoun and get onto the issues.

Sorry, this has to be said.

(/offtopic / rant off)

(for now )

Well thank you for showing that a few compliments sent your way can deceive you. READ what the fuck she posts day in and day out, then THINK THROUGH what the consequences would be if those ideas were carried out to completion. It will lead to some group of people being thrown in the river so they can either instantly swim or PERISH. It is the very core of conservatism...people only learn by being punished.

I am a Kennedy liberal, I don't back down from always putting people first, especially the least among us.

Now, mind your OWN business...

Oh I'm well familiar with what she posts day by day; I've tangled with Foxy from near the beginning of the time I got here. Even now she's referring to me as a "stopped clock" (she'll hear about that). And I'm aware she's as obdurate as they come; I'm not blind.

Here's what you're missing.

When your adversary holds out an olive branch, however lightly, you don't respond by biting her hand. That's classless. If that's your approach, go with it, and I have no doubt you'll ultimately get absolutely nowhere with your points. That's what happens when you back people into a corner. You know this as well as I; we get this crap all the time being called "libtards" and "Obamabots" and such. It puts the adversary on the defensive. It baits them into overstepping their own beliefs, just because they're being attacked. That accomplishes nothing.

But respond with a little grace, and your point may still get nowhere but at least you'll be listened to. And that's a start.

... that is, if our objective is to be heard. Because if that's not our objective, then all we do here is swim in a soup of self-indulgence.



I can't help recalling a fairy tale from childhood -- the Sun and the Wind were arguing over who was more powerful. The Sun says, "see that man down there? I can make him take his coat off. Can you do that?"

"Sure" says the Wind. "I can blow it off with my great strength". And he blew, and blew, and blew harder, but the man only clutched his coat tighter and took shelter.

So the Sun came in and warmed things up with benevolent rays, the man got warmed up, and took off his coat.

Moral: an understanding grok-approach will usually work better than simply trying to blow things away with brute force.

Or the short version:
Lighten up. Damn.

 

[Moonglow]

many here have no grace.

 

[Bfgrn]

....... ........

OK I really have to call this one out. Bfgrn, see post 2060; same applies to you.

You've got vital and well-thought-out points to make, but this my friend isn't one of them. Within the context of what we're discussing here, this post is bullshit. Foxy's at least extending a hand of respect here even if we still have ideological variances. That's a step toward open exchange. But here you seem to be pushing back toward polarization and division, and that just runs directly counter to the sentiment expressed.

We may not get there with the present thread; we may never get there at all. But let's not shoot ourselves in the proverbial foot and slam the door just because that's the way we've always done it. Nobody benefits when we push each other into corners. That's just wallowing in the same old message board shit. It's not good enough.

IMHO we all need to get off the addiction to the second personal pronoun and get onto the issues.

Sorry, this has to be said.

(/offtopic / rant off)

(for now )

Well thank you for showing that a few compliments sent your way can deceive you. READ what the fuck she posts day in and day out, then THINK THROUGH what the consequences would be if those ideas were carried out to completion. It will lead to some group of people being thrown in the river so they can either instantly swim or PERISH. It is the very core of conservatism...people only learn by being punished.

I am a Kennedy liberal, I don't back down from always putting people first, especially the least among us.

Now, mind your OWN business...

Oh I'm well familiar with what she posts day by day; I've tangled with Foxy from near the beginning of the time I got here. Even now she's referring to me as a "stopped clock" (she'll hear about that). And I'm aware she's as obdurate as they come; I'm not blind.

Here's what you're missing.

When your adversary holds out an olive branch, however lightly, you don't respond by biting her hand. That's classless. If that's your approach, go with it, and I have no doubt you'll ultimately get absolutely nowhere with your points. That's what happens when you back people into a corner. You know this as well as I; we get this crap all the time being called "libtards" and "Obamabots" and such. It puts the adversary on the defensive. It baits them into overstepping their own beliefs, just because they're being attacked. That accomplishes nothing.

But respond with a little grace, and your point may still get nowhere but at least you'll be listened to. And that's a start.

... that is, if our objective is to be heard. Because if that's not our objective, then all we do here is swim in a soup of self-indulgence.



I can't help recalling a fairy tale from childhood -- the Sun and the Wind were arguing over who was more powerful. The Sun says, "see that man down there? I can make him take his coat off. Can you do that?"

"Sure" says the Wind. "I can blow it off with my great strength". And he blew, and blew, and blew harder, but the man only clutched his coat tighter and took shelter.

So the Sun came in and warmed things up with benevolent rays, the man got warmed up, and took off his coat.

Moral: an understanding grok-approach will usually work better than simply trying to blow things away with brute force.

Or the short version:
Lighten up. Damn.

Maybe you need to learn the difference between an olive branch and a pat on the head.

 

[RKMBrown]

I am a Kennedy liberal, I don't back down from always putting people first, especially the least among us.

Now, mind your OWN business...

You mean the people on the left, correct? The people on the right you don't have any problem at all putting them last, correct?

I never side with the executioners. If you want to use the only tool conservatives learned, punishment, then I am your worst nightmare. I will fight you scum bags tooth and nail.

"It is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners"
Albert Camus

So everyone is either with you or against you. There is no room in your world for anyone who does not worship the ground you walk on. Basically you see yourself as a god among men. That about sum up your personal viewpoint on life?

 

[Stephanie]

You mean the people on the left, correct? The people on the right you don't have any problem at all putting them last, correct?

I never side with the executioners. If you want to use the only tool conservatives learned, punishment, then I am your worst nightmare. I will fight you scum bags tooth and nail.

"It is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners"
Albert Camus

So everyone is either with you or against you. There is no room in your world for anyone who does not worship the ground you walk on. Basically you see yourself as a god among men. That about sum up your personal viewpoint on life?

you summed it up right on the money

 

[KevinWestern]

I never side with the executioners. If you want to use the only tool conservatives learned, punishment, then I am your worst nightmare. I will fight you scum bags tooth and nail.

"It is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners"
Albert Camus

There are executioners on both sides of the political spectrum. Bush was one, and so is Obama.

Change will come when real people begin banding together in real, organic gatherings. We must not hate each other, as that will surely be our downfall.

 

[Foxfyre]

I never side with the executioners. If you want to use the only tool conservatives learned, punishment, then I am your worst nightmare. I will fight you scum bags tooth and nail.

"It is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners"
Albert Camus

There are executioners on both sides of the political spectrum. Bush was one, and so is Obama.

Change will come when real people begin banding together in real, organic gatherings. We must not hate each other, as that will surely be our downfall.

I think though that the definition of 'executioner' is pretty different in the two administrations. However ill advised or counter productive it might have been, George W. Bush's infamous enemies list included such targets as rogue terrorist nations, economic bullies, and "islamofacist extremists intent on destroying us."

Barack Obama doesn't talk much about terrorist nations, economic bullies, or Muslim extremists except for whatever part we might have played in making them mad at us. His enemy list seems to be anybody running for office against Democrats (especially him), anybody who is successful in business but hasn't contributed to his campaigns, any person who gains media attention criticizing his policies, members of the media who refuse to be his personal advocates, conservative groups and organizations, and Republicans.

Just another reason liberalism is out of favor with freedom loving people.

But again I don't hate liberals, even when they accuse me of calling them a stopped clock which I didn't. At least in that case. As Pogo said, if we can't even have a civil conversation re our differences, how do we ever get to cooperation on concepts important to us all? But I do hate the liberalism that proclaims itself to be superior to all others but refuses to acknowledge or even discuss the unintended consequences it creates.

 

[KevinWestern]

I never side with the executioners. If you want to use the only tool conservatives learned, punishment, then I am your worst nightmare. I will fight you scum bags tooth and nail.

"It is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners"
Albert Camus

There are executioners on both sides of the political spectrum. Bush was one, and so is Obama.

Change will come when real people begin banding together in real, organic gatherings. We must not hate each other, as that will surely be our downfall.

I think though that the definition of 'executioner' is pretty different in the two administrations. However ill advised or counter productive it might have been, George W. Bush's infamous enemies list included such targets as rogue terrorist nations, economic bullies, and "islamofacist extremists intent on destroying us."

Barack Obama doesn't talk much about terrorist nations, economic bullies, or Muslim extremists except for whatever part we might have played in making them mad at us. His enemy list seems to be anybody running for office against Democrats (especially him), anybody who is successful in business but hasn't contributed to his campaigns, any person who gains media attention criticizing his policies, members of the media who refuse to be his personal advocates, conservative groups and organizations, and Republicans.

Just another reason liberalism is out of favor with freedom loving people.

But again I don't hate liberals, even when they accuse me of calling them a stopped clock which I didn't. At least in that case. As Pogo said, if we can't even have a civil conversation re our differences, how do we ever get to cooperation on concepts important to us all? But I do hate the liberalism that proclaims itself to be superior to all others but refuses to acknowledge or even discuss the unintended consequences it creates.

I can agree with a lot of that.

 

[Foxfyre]

There are executioners on both sides of the political spectrum. Bush was one, and so is Obama.

Change will come when real people begin banding together in real, organic gatherings. We must not hate each other, as that will surely be our downfall.

I think though that the definition of 'executioner' is pretty different in the two administrations. However ill advised or counter productive it might have been, George W. Bush's infamous enemies list included such targets as rogue terrorist nations, economic bullies, and "islamofacist extremists intent on destroying us."

Barack Obama doesn't talk much about terrorist nations, economic bullies, or Muslim extremists except for whatever part we might have played in making them mad at us. His enemy list seems to be anybody running for office against Democrats (especially him), anybody who is successful in business but hasn't contributed to his campaigns, any person who gains media attention criticizing his policies, members of the media who refuse to be his personal advocates, conservative groups and organizations, and Republicans.

Just another reason liberalism is out of favor with freedom loving people.

But again I don't hate liberals, even when they accuse me of calling them a stopped clock which I didn't. At least in that case. As Pogo said, if we can't even have a civil conversation re our differences, how do we ever get to cooperation on concepts important to us all? But I do hate the liberalism that proclaims itself to be superior to all others but refuses to acknowledge or even discuss the unintended consequences it creates.

I can agree with a lot of that.

Well if you had any sense, you would agree with all of it. (Just kidding )

 

[Bfgrn]

You mean the people on the left, correct? The people on the right you don't have any problem at all putting them last, correct?

I never side with the executioners. If you want to use the only tool conservatives learned, punishment, then I am your worst nightmare. I will fight you scum bags tooth and nail.

"It is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners"
Albert Camus

So everyone is either with you or against you. There is no room in your world for anyone who does not worship the ground you walk on. Basically you see yourself as a god among men. That about sum up your personal viewpoint on life?

Projection identified. Nice try at twisting what I said into some evil.

I always put people first, that is the core of liberalism. Especially the least among us, the young, the old, the disabled and the poor. If you cause harm to people either directly or through some sick ideology that creates sick policies based of social Darwinism, then you are one of the executioners. I never side with the executioners.

"Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history."
President Dwight D. Eisenhower

 

[RKMBrown]

I never side with the executioners. If you want to use the only tool conservatives learned, punishment, then I am your worst nightmare. I will fight you scum bags tooth and nail.

"It is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners"
Albert Camus

So everyone is either with you or against you. There is no room in your world for anyone who does not worship the ground you walk on. Basically you see yourself as a god among men. That about sum up your personal viewpoint on life?

Projection identified. Nice try at twisting what I said into some evil.

I always put people first, that is the core of liberalism. Especially the least among us, the young, the old, the disabled and the poor. If you cause harm to people either directly or through some sick ideology that creates sick policies based of social Darwinism, then you are one of the executioners. I never side with the executioners.

"Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history."
President Dwight D. Eisenhower

Modern liberals have been pushing vile despicable social policies of redistributing wealth for decades. There is no excuse for it. Hand ups work hand outs do not work. Conservatives are in favor of hand ups not hand outs. You are therefore, evil. Satan's spawn.