Why do the God-haters persist?

[sealybobo]

What happened to the people who claimed Hitler was an atheist? I asked them to show me when exactly all the German people in the 1930's converted to atheism and when exactly did Germany move back to a christian nation exactly? This is history I don't know about. I'm assuming 90% of the Germans were christians in the 30's and 40's so saying atheists killed the jews or started ww2 is rather rediculous.

To people who believe in god(s), hitler and the nazi's were either christians or worse. The Nazi Party reportedly grew out of several occult groups that sprang up in the late 19th century. These groups spoke of the coming of a new Messiah that would save Germany. Hitler developed the notion that perhaps he was the chosen one to save the German people.

Of course sealybobo those people know all those Nazi's were christians. That's why they don't reply.

“
Atheism inspired Nazism is not true. An ad hominem deflection which demonstrates a failure to understand that atheism is simply a lack of belief in god(s), with no inherit moral, political or philosophical baggage, and thus no line can be drawn from it to the aforementioned ideologies. In the same vein, democracy could be called atheistic.
Hitler was religious and publicly decried atheism. Stalinism and Communism exercised gosateizm (state atheism) based on the ideology of Marxism-Leninism. Atheism was a means to an end, not a cause. Social Darwinism and Eugenics supplant actual natural selection with an unobjective personal perception of ‘fitness’. They are based on bad biology (genetic variability is actually very important for a species) and are completely independent of atheism.
Darwin observed and described evolution the same way Newton did for gravity. It was simply a discovery of a fact about the world – not an engineered philosophy on how to behave. Just as we do not blame Newton for the fact that gravity is used as a tool in the deployment of bombs, we cannot blame Darwin for individually misguided applications of ‘natural selection’.

 

[sealybobo]

“We were convinced that the people need and require this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.” – Adolf Hitler

 

[sealybobo]

Religious people say, "Believers are persecuted by atheists." Really? Look at the Blue Laws. Anti-atheist laws. Discrimination against atheists. The written penalty for apostasy (leaving a religion) in most religions is death.
Believers claim the victim and imply that non-theists gang up on them, or rally against them.

The bar theists set for perceived atheist hostility appears to be anyone simply voicing a dissenting opinion or mentioning an inclination towards non-belief. Claiming ‘persecution’ is simply a deflection for theists who are unwilling or unable to deal with open criticism.
When Atheists aren’t considered the least trustworthy group and when we comprise more than 70% of the population, then we’ll talk about persecution.

1. Why can’t atheists just leave theists alone? Because religion has been, and continues to be, responsible for countless horrors throughout human history.
2. For all the problems we face as a society, many theists choose not only to do nothing to help, but actually engage in sabotage by actively preventing solutions from being instigated, usually by supporting irrational political positions e.g. stem-cell research, contraception, women’s rights, sexual equality and even global warming.
3. Because belief in a god taps into mankind’s natural tendency to defer moral decision making to authority figures (including priests, prophets, holy books, popes, ayatollahs and imams). Acting out ‘God’s plan’ or ‘God’s will’ is a sure-fire way to absolve one’s-self of responsibility for one’s actions.
4. Because as a functional member of society it benefits everyone if your decision making process is founded on evidence and reason, not on superstition. Faith isn’t a virtue; it is the glorification of voluntary ignorance.
5.Because religious superstition erects an absolute monarchy in a person’s mind. It teaches them to be satisfied with with not understanding the world and represents a surrendering to ignorance under the pretension of ‘divine knowledge’. Many of the greatest thinkers in human history have been repressed, sometimes forcefully, by those with faith. It is not skeptics or explorers but fanatics and ideologues who menace decency and progress.

 

[GISMYS]

FEELING VANQUISHED??? LIVING IN FEAR??? WHY DO YOU COME HERE AND SCREAM THAT GODIS NOT REAL IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD? WHY WASTE YOUR TIME??? OR IS IT YOU JUST HOPE THERE IS NO GOD because you fear judgment and want to live in your pet sin??

 

[PostmodernProph]

Are you a fucking retard or do you not read what I write to you?

Because religion has been, and continues to be, responsible for countless horrors throughout human history. Religiously motivated animosity, violence and oppression and discrimination.
For all the problems we face as a society, many theists choose not only to do nothing to help, but actually engage in sabotage by actively preventing solutions from being instigated, usually by supporting irrational political positions e.g. stem-cell research, contraception, women’s rights, sexual equality and even global warming.
Because belief in a god taps into mankind’s natural tendency to defer moral decision making to authority figures (including priests, prophets, holy books, popes, ayatollahs and imams). Acting out ‘God’s plan’ or ‘God’s will’ is a sure-fire way to absolve one’s-self of responsibility for one’s actions.
Because as a functional member of society it benefits everyone if your decision making process is founded on evidence and reason, not on superstition. Faith isn’t a virtue; it is the glorification of voluntary ignorance.
Because religious superstition erects an absolute monarchy in a person’s mind. It teaches them to be satisfied with not understanding the world and represents a surrendering to ignorance under the pretension of ‘divine knowledge’. Many of the greatest thinkers in human history have been repressed, sometimes forcefully, by those with faith. It is not skeptics or explorers but fanatics and ideologues who menace decency and progress. See also: Hypatia, Galileo Galilei, Giordano Bruno,

YES!!! EVIL MAN HAS DONE MUCH HARM IN THE NAME OF RELIGION BUT ATHIEST HAS DONE FAR MORE EVIL!!! ============RELIGION IS NOT THE POINT!!!! YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH ALMIGHTY GOD IS WHAT IS ""ALL"" IMPORTANT!!!! THERE IS NO DOWNSIDE TO LIVING A HAPPY,BLESSED LIFE AS A son OF ALMIGHTY GOD!!!

Why is it now that we have developed rational inquiry we hear only a deafening silence from a god who once supposedly engaged regularly in human affairs? Why does god not simply speak to us or appear before us as he supposedly used to? Why are we the losers in the dice roll of time? If a god places such a high value on us worshipping and believing then why not simply make its existence obvious to us? If one accepts the prevailing scientific understanding of the development of the universe, yet also believes in one of the major religions, then presumably a god sat idle for 13.7 billion years

If Jesus is God then presumably he is omniscient. If this is true, then when he allowed himself to be sacrificed, didn’t he do this with the knowledge that he was immortal? If so, then how exactly was it a sacrifice for him? What did he sacrifice?

is it difficult for you to imagine that for a creating deity, the sacrifice didn't begin on the cross.....it began when he chose to incarnate himself in the fragile vessel of a mere human being......the sacrifice began at Bethlehem, not Calvary.....

 

[Hollie]

YES!!! EVIL MAN HAS DONE MUCH HARM IN THE NAME OF RELIGION BUT ATHIEST HAS DONE FAR MORE EVIL!!! ============RELIGION IS NOT THE POINT!!!! YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH ALMIGHTY GOD IS WHAT IS ""ALL"" IMPORTANT!!!! THERE IS NO DOWNSIDE TO LIVING A HAPPY,BLESSED LIFE AS A son OF ALMIGHTY GOD!!!

Why is it now that we have developed rational inquiry we hear only a deafening silence from a god who once supposedly engaged regularly in human affairs? Why does god not simply speak to us or appear before us as he supposedly used to? Why are we the losers in the dice roll of time? If a god places such a high value on us worshipping and believing then why not simply make its existence obvious to us? If one accepts the prevailing scientific understanding of the development of the universe, yet also believes in one of the major religions, then presumably a god sat idle for 13.7 billion years

If Jesus is God then presumably he is omniscient. If this is true, then when he allowed himself to be sacrificed, didn’t he do this with the knowledge that he was immortal? If so, then how exactly was it a sacrifice for him? What did he sacrifice?

is it difficult for you to imagine that for a creating deity, the sacrifice didn't begin on the cross.....it began when he chose to incarnate himself in the fragile vessel of a mere human being......the sacrifice began at Bethlehem, not Calvary.....

The myth of god incarnate.

PROBLEMS WITH THE INCARNATION or THE MYTH OF GOD INCARNATE I am God and not man

 

[Boss]

Why is it now that we have developed rational inquiry we hear only a deafening silence from a god who once supposedly engaged regularly in human affairs? Why does god not simply speak to us or appear before us as he supposedly used to? Why are we the losers in the dice roll of time? If a god places such a high value on us worshipping and believing then why not simply make its existence obvious to us? If one accepts the prevailing scientific understanding of the development of the universe, yet also believes in one of the major religions, then presumably a god sat idle for 13.7 billion years

If Jesus is God then presumably he is omniscient. If this is true, then when he allowed himself to be sacrificed, didn’t he do this with the knowledge that he was immortal? If so, then how exactly was it a sacrifice for him? What did he sacrifice?

Let me pose some questions for you to ponder here... What does time mean to something which resides outside the spacetime continuum we experience in our universe? Why would an omnipotent and immortal entity have "wants and desires" or place "value" on anything?

Try to wrap your mind around it, God is not a physical entity. God does not exist as part of a physical reality we experience through time. There is no invisible man sitting on a cloud. Until you can grasp the concept of what a spiritual entity is, you can't rationalize any of this because it makes no sense.

People worship and believe in God not because God commands it, but because they feel it will please God for them to do so. But does God experience pleasure? You see, everything we try and relate to God simply doesn't apply to God. We create an incarnation of something that is like humans, has human attributes and emotions, is effected by time, has desires, needs, wants, gets angry or shows compassion... these are humanistic attributes that do not apply to a spiritual entity. But since we can't comprehend it, we create these things to supposedly help us better understand it. We're flawed... totally fucked up creatures. Sometimes our worst adversary is our own minds.

 

[Hollie]

Why is it now that we have developed rational inquiry we hear only a deafening silence from a god who once supposedly engaged regularly in human affairs? Why does god not simply speak to us or appear before us as he supposedly used to? Why are we the losers in the dice roll of time? If a god places such a high value on us worshipping and believing then why not simply make its existence obvious to us? If one accepts the prevailing scientific understanding of the development of the universe, yet also believes in one of the major religions, then presumably a god sat idle for 13.7 billion years

If Jesus is God then presumably he is omniscient. If this is true, then when he allowed himself to be sacrificed, didn’t he do this with the knowledge that he was immortal? If so, then how exactly was it a sacrifice for him? What did he sacrifice?

Let me pose some questions for you to ponder here... What does time mean to something which resides outside the spacetime continuum we experience in our universe? Why would an omnipotent and immortal entity have "wants and desires" or place "value" on anything?

Try to wrap your mind around it, God is not a physical entity. God does not exist as part of a physical reality we experience through time. There is no invisible man sitting on a cloud. Until you can grasp the concept of what a spiritual entity is, you can't rationalize any of this because it makes no sense.

People worship and believe in God not because God commands it, but because they feel it will please God for them to do so. But does God experience pleasure? You see, everything we try and relate to God simply doesn't apply to God. We create an incarnation of something that is like humans, has human attributes and emotions, is effected by time, has desires, needs, wants, gets angry or shows compassion... these are humanistic attributes that do not apply to a spiritual entity. But since we can't comprehend it, we create these things to supposedly help us better understand it. We're flawed... totally fucked up creatures. Sometimes our worst adversary is our own minds.

"We're flawed... totally fucked up creatures."

The above is a hallmark of Christian mythology. Man is evil and base and in need of salvation through Hey-zeus. The christian cannot withstand a world wherein humans are the final owners of our destiny. Our acts need to be watched over and adjudicated by an angry father figure from on high (and never seen), and that human progress is inherently hindered, impossible without guidance from the father figure. Finally, the Christian is in a psychological dilemma of superiority/inferiority -- they are so vaunted by their gods that the entire realm of existence was created exclusively for them, but they are so unworthy that they are nothing in the sight of their deities. That is a prescription for a maladjusted personality, and again, it's evident by the self-hate and virulent anger that theistic belief has whipped up time and time again.

 

[jillian]

Why is it now that we have developed rational inquiry we hear only a deafening silence from a god who once supposedly engaged regularly in human affairs? Why does god not simply speak to us or appear before us as he supposedly used to? Why are we the losers in the dice roll of time? If a god places such a high value on us worshipping and believing then why not simply make its existence obvious to us? If one accepts the prevailing scientific understanding of the development of the universe, yet also believes in one of the major religions, then presumably a god sat idle for 13.7 billion years

If Jesus is God then presumably he is omniscient. If this is true, then when he allowed himself to be sacrificed, didn’t he do this with the knowledge that he was immortal? If so, then how exactly was it a sacrifice for him? What did he sacrifice?

Let me pose some questions for you to ponder here... What does time mean to something which resides outside the spacetime continuum we experience in our universe? Why would an omnipotent and immortal entity have "wants and desires" or place "value" on anything?

Try to wrap your mind around it, God is not a physical entity. God does not exist as part of a physical reality we experience through time. There is no invisible man sitting on a cloud. Until you can grasp the concept of what a spiritual entity is, you can't rationalize any of this because it makes no sense.

People worship and believe in God not because God commands it, but because they feel it will please God for them to do so. But does God experience pleasure? You see, everything we try and relate to God simply doesn't apply to God. We create an incarnation of something that is like humans, has human attributes and emotions, is effected by time, has desires, needs, wants, gets angry or shows compassion... these are humanistic attributes that do not apply to a spiritual entity. But since we can't comprehend it, we create these things to supposedly help us better understand it. We're flawed... totally fucked up creatures. Sometimes our worst adversary is our own minds.

If G-d has no wants and desires, then why does he care what you do?

 

[GISMYS]

"" humans are the final owners of our destiny. "" you are free to choose to believe in GOD AND ACCEPT HIS LOVE,BLESSINGS AND FORGIVNESS OR YOU CAN CHOSE TO REJECT GOD AND GO TO HELL!!! ALL YOUR CHOICE!

 

[sealybobo]

Why is it now that we have developed rational inquiry we hear only a deafening silence from a god who once supposedly engaged regularly in human affairs? Why does god not simply speak to us or appear before us as he supposedly used to? Why are we the losers in the dice roll of time? If a god places such a high value on us worshipping and believing then why not simply make its existence obvious to us? If one accepts the prevailing scientific understanding of the development of the universe, yet also believes in one of the major religions, then presumably a god sat idle for 13.7 billion years

If Jesus is God then presumably he is omniscient. If this is true, then when he allowed himself to be sacrificed, didn’t he do this with the knowledge that he was immortal? If so, then how exactly was it a sacrifice for him? What did he sacrifice?

Let me pose some questions for you to ponder here... What does time mean to something which resides outside the spacetime continuum we experience in our universe? Why would an omnipotent and immortal entity have "wants and desires" or place "value" on anything?

Try to wrap your mind around it, God is not a physical entity. God does not exist as part of a physical reality we experience through time. There is no invisible man sitting on a cloud. Until you can grasp the concept of what a spiritual entity is, you can't rationalize any of this because it makes no sense.

People worship and believe in God not because God commands it, but because they feel it will please God for them to do so. But does God experience pleasure? You see, everything we try and relate to God simply doesn't apply to God. We create an incarnation of something that is like humans, has human attributes and emotions, is effected by time, has desires, needs, wants, gets angry or shows compassion... these are humanistic attributes that do not apply to a spiritual entity. But since we can't comprehend it, we create these things to supposedly help us better understand it. We're flawed... totally fucked up creatures. Sometimes our worst adversary is our own minds.

The use of burial rituals is evidence of religious activity, but there is no other evidence that religion existed in human culture before humans reached behavioral modernity.

In this set of theories, the religious mind is one consequence of a brain that is large enough to formulate religious and philosophical ideas. During human evolution, the hominid brain tripled in size, peaking 500,000 years ago. Much of the brain's expansion took place in the neocortex. This part of the brain is involved in processing higher order cognitive functions that are connected with human religiosity.

More than half of adult Americans report they have had a spiritual experience that changed their lives. Now, scientists from universities like Harvard, Pennsylvania and Johns Hopkins are using new technologies to analyze the brains of people who claim they have touched the spiritual — from Christians who speak in tongues to Buddhist monks to people who claim to have had near-death experiences. Hear what they have discovered in this controversial field, as the science of spirituality continues to evolve. Is This Your Brain On God? : NPR

The appearance of complexity and order in the universe is the result of spontaneous self-organisation and pattern formation, caused by chaotic feedback between simple physical laws and rules. All the complexity of the universe, all its apparent richness, even life itself, arises from simple, mindless rules repeated over and over again for billions of years. Current scientific theories are able to clearly explain how complexity and order arise in physical systems. Any lack of understanding does not immediately imply ‘god’.

Using ‘god’ to explain something explains nothing. God’s supposed powers and how they work are a mystery. An explanation is intended to clarify and extend knowledge. Attributing a phenomenon to the magical powers of a supernatural being does neither. Worse still, this presumption acts to prevent any deeper investigation, being little more than a form of blissful ignorance.

Note: By using ‘god’ to fill gaps in their knowledge theists inadvertently provide a shrinking role for their god as science advances. They also predicate god’s existence on a lack of knowledge, not on any positive argument or evidence.

Until we understand something we “do not know”. Positing a ‘god’ in place of admitting personal ignorance is an unfounded leap which demonstrates a fundamental lack of humility.

The existence and non-existence of a god are not equally probable outcomes. The majority of things we can possibly imagine do not exist. Thus, belief is not as valid a position as skepticism when dealing with unsupported or unfalsifiable claims. Agnostic atheism is the most rational position.

There is a truth and reality independent of our desires. Faith simply reinforces your belief in what you would like to be true, rather than what really is. In order to better under understand this reality and discover the truth we must look for evidence outside ourselves. Faith isn’t a virtue; it is the glorification of voluntary ignorance.
Being open-minded does not mean accepting claims outright, it means demonstrating the willingness to consider new ones. An open-minded person is receptive to new ideas, opinions and arguments and wants to discover their real truth-value before accepting them. Atheists are generally very open-minded.

Unjustified belief in the supernatural does not automatically make someone open-minded and, conversely, disbelief – pending further evidence – does not automatically make someone close-minded.

Athiests simply do not usually exhibit gullibility or credulity. They maintain a standard of evidence proportional to the extraordinary nature of certain claims. They are usually open to the idea of god, but so far unconvinced by any evidence or argument put forward to support it.

 

[sealybobo]

"" humans are the final owners of our destiny. "" you are free to choose to believe in GOD AND ACCEPT HIS LOVE,BLESSINGS AND FORGIVNESS OR YOU CAN CHOSE TO REJECT GOD AND GO TO HELL!!! ALL YOUR CHOICE!

I don’t want to go to hell/You will go to hell.

Pascal’s Wager does not actually argue in support of the existence of a god, rather, it simply attempts to coerce insincere worship. There are several issues with this approach:

Multiple inconsistent and contradictory revelations (Which god/hell?)
Hell is incompatible with an omnibenevolent god.

A god could reward reasoning/skepticism.

An omniscient god would see through feigned belief as a result of coercion.

If a god wanted everyone to believe and knew exactly what was needed to convince people, then why are there atheists at all? Is god unable to prevent transgression of his will?

Infallible foreknowledge is incompatible with free will (Are atheists predestined for hell?)

Most people adhere to the religion they were born into, they have not examined all other religions.
What is the fate of the unlearned? What happens to people who have not encountered the specific religion in which hell is an issue.

 

[Hollie]

"" humans are the final owners of our destiny. "" you are free to choose to believe in GOD AND ACCEPT HIS LOVE,BLESSINGS AND FORGIVNESS OR YOU CAN CHOSE TO REJECT GOD AND GO TO HELL!!! ALL YOUR CHOICE!

Ah. "Make him an offer he can't refuse".

Is your god a mafia capo?

AND YOU??????

 

[sealybobo]

"" humans are the final owners of our destiny. "" you are free to choose to believe in GOD AND ACCEPT HIS LOVE,BLESSINGS AND FORGIVNESS OR YOU CAN CHOSE TO REJECT GOD AND GO TO HELL!!! ALL YOUR CHOICE!

You really are stupid.

I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking. The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there’s little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.” – Carl Sagan

“I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.” - Mark Twain

 

[sealybobo]

"" humans are the final owners of our destiny. "" you are free to choose to believe in GOD AND ACCEPT HIS LOVE,BLESSINGS AND FORGIVNESS OR YOU CAN CHOSE TO REJECT GOD AND GO TO HELL!!! ALL YOUR CHOICE!

“The significance of our lives and our fragile planet is determined only by our own wisdom and courage. We are the custodians of life’s meaning. We long for a Parent to care for us, to forgive us our errors, to save us from our childish mistakes. But knowledge is preferable to ignorance. Better by far to embrace the hard truth than a reassuring fable. If we crave some cosmic purpose, then let us find ourselves a worthy goal.” – Carl Sagan

 

[sealybobo]

"" humans are the final owners of our destiny. "" you are free to choose to believe in GOD AND ACCEPT HIS LOVE,BLESSINGS AND FORGIVNESS OR YOU CAN CHOSE TO REJECT GOD AND GO TO HELL!!! ALL YOUR CHOICE!

When I became convinced that the universe was natural, that all the ghosts and gods were myths, there entered into my brain, into my soul, into every drop of my blood, the sense, the feeling, the joy of freedom. The walls of my prison crumbled and fell. The dungeon was flooded with light and all the bolts and bars and manacles turned to dust. I was no longer a servant, a serf, or a slave. There was for me no master in all the wide world, not even in infinite space.

I was free to think. Free to express my thoughts, free to live in my own ideal. Free to live for myself and those I loved. Free to use all my faculties, all my senses. Free to spread imagination’s wings, free to investigate, to guess, and dream and hope. Free to judge and determine for myself. Free to reject all ignorant and cruel creeds, all the inspired books that savages have produced, and the barbarous legends of the past. Free from sanctified mistakes and “holy” lies. Free from the fear of eternal pain, free from the winged monsters of the night. Free from devils, ghosts and gods. For the first time I was free.

There were no prohibited places in all of the realm of thought. No error, no space where fancy could not spread her painted wings. No chains for my limbs. No lashes for my back. No flames for my flesh. No Master’s frown or threat, no following in another’s steps. No need to bow or cringe or crawl, or utter lying words. I was free; I stood erect and fearlessly, joyously faced all worlds.

My heart was filled with gratitude, with thankfulness, and went out in love to all the heros, the thinkers who gave their lives for liberty of hand and brain, for the freedom of labor and thought to those who fell on the fierce fields of war. To those who died in dungeons, bound in chains, to those by fire consumed, to all the wise, the good, the brave of every land whose thoughts and deeds have given freedom to the sons of men. And then, I vowed to grasp the torch that they held, and hold it high, That light might conquer darkness still.

-Robert Green Ingersoll (1833-1899)

 

[GISMYS]

"" humans are the final owners of our destiny. "" you are free to choose to believe in GOD AND ACCEPT HIS LOVE,BLESSINGS AND FORGIVNESS OR YOU CAN CHOSE TO REJECT GOD AND GO TO HELL!!! ALL YOUR CHOICE!

You really are stupid.

I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking. The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there’s little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.” – Carl Sagan

“I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.” - Mark Twain

YOU TELL ME WHAT carl sagan and mark twain said,WHILE I TELL YOU WHAT ALMIGHTY GOD SAYS!!! GOD SAYS,"BELIEVER AND HAVE FAITH!!! YOU ALL READY HAVE ALL YOU NEED=YOU SALL READY GOT IT!!!===http://www.awmi.net/tv/this_week

 

[Montrovant]

Why is it now that we have developed rational inquiry we hear only a deafening silence from a god who once supposedly engaged regularly in human affairs? Why does god not simply speak to us or appear before us as he supposedly used to? Why are we the losers in the dice roll of time? If a god places such a high value on us worshipping and believing then why not simply make its existence obvious to us? If one accepts the prevailing scientific understanding of the development of the universe, yet also believes in one of the major religions, then presumably a god sat idle for 13.7 billion years

If Jesus is God then presumably he is omniscient. If this is true, then when he allowed himself to be sacrificed, didn’t he do this with the knowledge that he was immortal? If so, then how exactly was it a sacrifice for him? What did he sacrifice?

Let me pose some questions for you to ponder here... What does time mean to something which resides outside the spacetime continuum we experience in our universe? Why would an omnipotent and immortal entity have "wants and desires" or place "value" on anything?

Try to wrap your mind around it, God is not a physical entity. God does not exist as part of a physical reality we experience through time. There is no invisible man sitting on a cloud. Until you can grasp the concept of what a spiritual entity is, you can't rationalize any of this because it makes no sense.

People worship and believe in God not because God commands it, but because they feel it will please God for them to do so. But does God experience pleasure? You see, everything we try and relate to God simply doesn't apply to God. We create an incarnation of something that is like humans, has human attributes and emotions, is effected by time, has desires, needs, wants, gets angry or shows compassion... these are humanistic attributes that do not apply to a spiritual entity. But since we can't comprehend it, we create these things to supposedly help us better understand it. We're flawed... totally fucked up creatures. Sometimes our worst adversary is our own minds.

Couple of things I wanted to respond to here.

I tend to agree that, if there is a god that created the universe, is not affected by time as we are, etc.....we likely could not understand the behavior or motivations of such a being. That doesn't mean it would not have desires or wants, or not have human-like emotions. It means there's no real way for us to know or predict what such a being is like.

I find it strange that you call humans flawed, totally fucked up creatures, yet used an expectation of rational behavior as one of your reasons that religion cannot be based on human imaginings. Why couldn't such flawed, fucked up creatures go on believing in what amounts to a fairy tale, even if doing so is irrational?

 

[sealybobo]

"" humans are the final owners of our destiny. "" you are free to choose to believe in GOD AND ACCEPT HIS LOVE,BLESSINGS AND FORGIVNESS OR YOU CAN CHOSE TO REJECT GOD AND GO TO HELL!!! ALL YOUR CHOICE!

You really are stupid.

I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking. The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there’s little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.” – Carl Sagan

“I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.” - Mark Twain

YOU TELL ME WHAT carl sagan and mark twain said,WHILE I TELL YOU WHAT ALMIGHTY GOD SAYS!!! GOD SAYS,"BELIEVER AND HAVE FAITH!!! YOU ALL READY HAVE ALL YOU NEED=YOU SALL READY GOT IT!!!===http://www.awmi.net/tv/this_week

There is no god and even if there is, he never talked to anyone on earth except for ancient superstitious stories from 2000 years ago or wack jobs in evangelical churches. No exorcisms, witches, ghosts, angels or god.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Isn't this like asking why we still have poor people?