Why do the God-haters persist?

[ding]

And 90% of physical phenomena will never be explained by science.

Atheism and agnosticism only emerged as real options in the modern era, as consequences of secularization, the separation of church and state, and above all, the reliance on science for explanations of natural phenomena.

Though Jews tended to believe in certain shared concepts–e.g. one God who led them out of Egypt, the eventual messianic redemption–official beliefs or dogmas were not formulated until the Middle Ages.

Rabbinic Judaism, as well as biblical Judaism, has a concept of belief, but not–many would argue– in the sense of affirming propositions, e.g. asserting that God exists. Scholar Menachem Kellner, for one, points out that the biblical word emunah, “belief” or “faith” connotes trust, belief in, as opposed to the affirmation of propositions. Of course, one might argue that trusting in something implies that that something exists, but the distinction between belief in and belief that helps in understanding the priorities and emphases of the rabbinic worldview.

This approach to belief changed in the Middle Ages, when Jewish philosophers began proposing official doctrines of Judaism. Maimonides‘ thirteen principles of faith is the most famous list of creeds; it includes several dogmas about God including the assertion that God exists.

The actual principles articulated by Maimonides were not terribly revolutionary. What wasrevolutionary was Maimonides’ claim that belief in these principles was essential to one’s Jewish identity.

Traditionally, Jewish identity had been defined biologically. According to rabbinic Judaism, if one’s mother was Jewish, than one was Jewish, regardless of one’s actions or beliefs.

Many modern thinkers, particularly liberal theologians, have tried to reclaim the rabbinic attitude toward belief, stressing that religious dogma is anathema to Judaism and that the medieval creation of dogma was, in a sense, a corruption of Judaism. Though most of these thinkers, including Leo Baeck and Solomon Schechter, didn’t use this rejection of dogma to question the existence and relevance of God, others have.

The Evolution of God: Erich Fromm
Erich Fromm, in his radical interpretation of the Hebrew Bible, You Shall Be As Gods, describes how God becomes progressively less real (and relevant) in traditional Jewish literature. At the beginning of the Bible, God is an absolute ruler who can (and does) destroy the world when He is not happy with it. In the next stage, however, God relinquishes His absolute power by making a covenant with humankind. God’s power is limited because it is subject to the terms of the covenant.

The third stage of God’s evolution (or devolution) comes in His revelation to Moses, in which he presents Himself as a nameless God. The evolution of God does not stop with the Bible. Ironically, Maimonides takes it even further by positing that nothing can be said about God. We can venture to say what God isn’t, but God’s positive attributes are unthinkable.

The next step, says Fromm, should have been a rejection of God completely, but even he–a self-declared non-theistic mystic–acknowledges that this is impossible for religious Jews. He does, however, recognize that because Judaism has not been primarily concerned with beliefs per se, one who does not believe in God can still come very close to living a life that is fully Jewish in spirit.

Very interesting stuff.

God's creations can never know anything about God.
We only know how God manifests Himself.

Hilarious. So you don't know anything about god but you know how god manifests itself? How do you know this? You just admitted you know nothing about him.

And I'm sorry but isn't the bible telling the truth? Because it tells all about God. Funny you say you know nothing about god after reading all about him in the bible. Maybe you have reading comprehension issues.

And how come god stopped visiting? Doesn't seem fair. Of course the people who saw Jesus believe. But why should that get me to believe? I need to see it too.

I already explained this to you before. We can learn about Him through His creation.

You really can't learn anything about God through the creation.
Creation cannot be considered a subset of God.

If you created something tangible and I found it, could I learn things from it about you?

 

[IsaacNewton]

And having a relationship with God is not magic.

But gods are magic and miracles are magic. What word do you prefer? "Miraculous"? "Metaphysical"? "Spiritual"? I have to pick one to describe these beliefs. And I am going to use the same word for all manner of magical beliefs, like chiropractic, , Ouija boards, Wicca, Astrology, Voodoo, Homeopathic medicine.... all of this magical thought goes on the same shelf, for me. so, if not "magical",.... then, what? "Bullshit?" What?

And 90% of physical phenomena will never be explained by science.

Atheism and agnosticism only emerged as real options in the modern era, as consequences of secularization, the separation of church and state, and above all, the reliance on science for explanations of natural phenomena.

Though Jews tended to believe in certain shared concepts–e.g. one God who led them out of Egypt, the eventual messianic redemption–official beliefs or dogmas were not formulated until the Middle Ages.

Rabbinic Judaism, as well as biblical Judaism, has a concept of belief, but not–many would argue– in the sense of affirming propositions, e.g. asserting that God exists. Scholar Menachem Kellner, for one, points out that the biblical word emunah, “belief” or “faith” connotes trust, belief in, as opposed to the affirmation of propositions. Of course, one might argue that trusting in something implies that that something exists, but the distinction between belief in and belief that helps in understanding the priorities and emphases of the rabbinic worldview.

This approach to belief changed in the Middle Ages, when Jewish philosophers began proposing official doctrines of Judaism. Maimonides‘ thirteen principles of faith is the most famous list of creeds; it includes several dogmas about God including the assertion that God exists.

The actual principles articulated by Maimonides were not terribly revolutionary. What wasrevolutionary was Maimonides’ claim that belief in these principles was essential to one’s Jewish identity.

Traditionally, Jewish identity had been defined biologically. According to rabbinic Judaism, if one’s mother was Jewish, than one was Jewish, regardless of one’s actions or beliefs.

Many modern thinkers, particularly liberal theologians, have tried to reclaim the rabbinic attitude toward belief, stressing that religious dogma is anathema to Judaism and that the medieval creation of dogma was, in a sense, a corruption of Judaism. Though most of these thinkers, including Leo Baeck and Solomon Schechter, didn’t use this rejection of dogma to question the existence and relevance of God, others have.

The Evolution of God: Erich Fromm
Erich Fromm, in his radical interpretation of the Hebrew Bible, You Shall Be As Gods, describes how God becomes progressively less real (and relevant) in traditional Jewish literature. At the beginning of the Bible, God is an absolute ruler who can (and does) destroy the world when He is not happy with it. In the next stage, however, God relinquishes His absolute power by making a covenant with humankind. God’s power is limited because it is subject to the terms of the covenant.

The third stage of God’s evolution (or devolution) comes in His revelation to Moses, in which he presents Himself as a nameless God. The evolution of God does not stop with the Bible. Ironically, Maimonides takes it even further by positing that nothing can be said about God. We can venture to say what God isn’t, but God’s positive attributes are unthinkable.

The next step, says Fromm, should have been a rejection of God completely, but even he–a self-declared non-theistic mystic–acknowledges that this is impossible for religious Jews. He does, however, recognize that because Judaism has not been primarily concerned with beliefs per se, one who does not believe in God can still come very close to living a life that is fully Jewish in spirit.

Very interesting stuff.

God's creations can never know anything about God.
We only know how God manifests Himself.

Hilarious. So you don't know anything about god but you know how god manifests itself? How do you know this? You just admitted you know nothing about him.

And I'm sorry but isn't the bible telling the truth? Because it tells all about God. Funny you say you know nothing about god after reading all about him in the bible. Maybe you have reading comprehension issues.

And how come god stopped visiting? Doesn't seem fair. Of course the people who saw Jesus believe. But why should that get me to believe? I need to see it too.

"Lo, and the lord thy god shall appear on darkened bread, and it will be good (with butter and apricot jam)."

 

[Indeependent]

Atheism and agnosticism only emerged as real options in the modern era, as consequences of secularization, the separation of church and state, and above all, the reliance on science for explanations of natural phenomena.

Though Jews tended to believe in certain shared concepts–e.g. one God who led them out of Egypt, the eventual messianic redemption–official beliefs or dogmas were not formulated until the Middle Ages.

Rabbinic Judaism, as well as biblical Judaism, has a concept of belief, but not–many would argue– in the sense of affirming propositions, e.g. asserting that God exists. Scholar Menachem Kellner, for one, points out that the biblical word emunah, “belief” or “faith” connotes trust, belief in, as opposed to the affirmation of propositions. Of course, one might argue that trusting in something implies that that something exists, but the distinction between belief in and belief that helps in understanding the priorities and emphases of the rabbinic worldview.

This approach to belief changed in the Middle Ages, when Jewish philosophers began proposing official doctrines of Judaism. Maimonides‘ thirteen principles of faith is the most famous list of creeds; it includes several dogmas about God including the assertion that God exists.

The actual principles articulated by Maimonides were not terribly revolutionary. What wasrevolutionary was Maimonides’ claim that belief in these principles was essential to one’s Jewish identity.

Traditionally, Jewish identity had been defined biologically. According to rabbinic Judaism, if one’s mother was Jewish, than one was Jewish, regardless of one’s actions or beliefs.

Many modern thinkers, particularly liberal theologians, have tried to reclaim the rabbinic attitude toward belief, stressing that religious dogma is anathema to Judaism and that the medieval creation of dogma was, in a sense, a corruption of Judaism. Though most of these thinkers, including Leo Baeck and Solomon Schechter, didn’t use this rejection of dogma to question the existence and relevance of God, others have.

The Evolution of God: Erich Fromm
Erich Fromm, in his radical interpretation of the Hebrew Bible, You Shall Be As Gods, describes how God becomes progressively less real (and relevant) in traditional Jewish literature. At the beginning of the Bible, God is an absolute ruler who can (and does) destroy the world when He is not happy with it. In the next stage, however, God relinquishes His absolute power by making a covenant with humankind. God’s power is limited because it is subject to the terms of the covenant.

The third stage of God’s evolution (or devolution) comes in His revelation to Moses, in which he presents Himself as a nameless God. The evolution of God does not stop with the Bible. Ironically, Maimonides takes it even further by positing that nothing can be said about God. We can venture to say what God isn’t, but God’s positive attributes are unthinkable.

The next step, says Fromm, should have been a rejection of God completely, but even he–a self-declared non-theistic mystic–acknowledges that this is impossible for religious Jews. He does, however, recognize that because Judaism has not been primarily concerned with beliefs per se, one who does not believe in God can still come very close to living a life that is fully Jewish in spirit.

Very interesting stuff.

God's creations can never know anything about God.
We only know how God manifests Himself.

Hilarious. So you don't know anything about god but you know how god manifests itself? How do you know this? You just admitted you know nothing about him.

And I'm sorry but isn't the bible telling the truth? Because it tells all about God. Funny you say you know nothing about god after reading all about him in the bible. Maybe you have reading comprehension issues.

And how come god stopped visiting? Doesn't seem fair. Of course the people who saw Jesus believe. But why should that get me to believe? I need to see it too.

I already explained this to you before. We can learn about Him through His creation.

Didn’t buy it then or now

That's because you are ignorant on how science and logic work.

We already settled the fact that sealy has an accredited PhD in Google Search.

 

[sealybobo]

God's creations can never know anything about God.
We only know how God manifests Himself.

Hilarious. So you don't know anything about god but you know how god manifests itself? How do you know this? You just admitted you know nothing about him.

And I'm sorry but isn't the bible telling the truth? Because it tells all about God. Funny you say you know nothing about god after reading all about him in the bible. Maybe you have reading comprehension issues.

And how come god stopped visiting? Doesn't seem fair. Of course the people who saw Jesus believe. But why should that get me to believe? I need to see it too.

I already explained this to you before. We can learn about Him through His creation.

Didn’t buy it then or now

That's because you are ignorant on how science and logic work.

We already settled the fact that sealy has an accredited PhD in Google Search.

Lots of smart people believe in god. Cognitive dissonance.

 

[ScienceRocks]

God makes people murder other people because they wish to question the world around them.

There's no evidence for GOD! None at all. The question that should be asked is why do people persist on believing in that isn't real?

 

[Indeependent]

Hilarious. So you don't know anything about god but you know how god manifests itself? How do you know this? You just admitted you know nothing about him.

And I'm sorry but isn't the bible telling the truth? Because it tells all about God. Funny you say you know nothing about god after reading all about him in the bible. Maybe you have reading comprehension issues.

And how come god stopped visiting? Doesn't seem fair. Of course the people who saw Jesus believe. But why should that get me to believe? I need to see it too.

I already explained this to you before. We can learn about Him through His creation.

Didn’t buy it then or now

That's because you are ignorant on how science and logic work.

We already settled the fact that sealy has an accredited PhD in Google Search.

Lots of smart people believe in god. Cognitive dissonance.

Atheist pointing to verses out of context...how shocking!

 

[sealybobo]

I already explained this to you before. We can learn about Him through His creation.

Didn’t buy it then or now

That's because you are ignorant on how science and logic work.

We already settled the fact that sealy has an accredited PhD in Google Search.

Lots of smart people believe in god. Cognitive dissonance.

Atheist pointing to verses out of context...how shocking!

We’ve all had some great conversations regarding this subject. I discussed with people who are much more intellectually honest than you. Your tactic doesn’t work on us. You aren’t smart. I don’t care if you have a PhD in magic. It’s insane anyone could study it that deeply and not realize it’s all made up. Well that’s what wishful thinking will do.

You have never been in a good discussion about god. Anyone who believes the creation story and denies evolution can’t be taken seriously. And cherry pickers are only slightly better

 

[ding]

Didn’t buy it then or now

That's because you are ignorant on how science and logic work.

We already settled the fact that sealy has an accredited PhD in Google Search.

Lots of smart people believe in god. Cognitive dissonance.

Atheist pointing to verses out of context...how shocking!

We’ve all had some great conversations regarding this subject. I discussed with people who are much more intellectually honest than you. Your tactic doesn’t work on us. You aren’t smart. I don’t care if you have a PhD in magic. It’s insane anyone could study it that deeply and not realize it’s all made up. Well that’s what wishful thinking will do.

You have never been in a good discussion about god. Anyone who believes the creation story and denies evolution can’t be taken seriously. And cherry pickers are only slightly better

I don't know how you can look at the universe and not conclude that rather than being a late outgrowth, intelligence has always existed as the source or matrix for physical stuff.

 

[BreezeWood]

.

It’s insane anyone could study it that deeply and not realize it’s all made up.

or see the forgeries (lies) that negate their writings to pedestrian goals and self indulgence - indeependent ... working hand in hand.

 

[sealybobo]

That's because you are ignorant on how science and logic work.

We already settled the fact that sealy has an accredited PhD in Google Search.

Lots of smart people believe in god. Cognitive dissonance.

Atheist pointing to verses out of context...how shocking!

We’ve all had some great conversations regarding this subject. I discussed with people who are much more intellectually honest than you. Your tactic doesn’t work on us. You aren’t smart. I don’t care if you have a PhD in magic. It’s insane anyone could study it that deeply and not realize it’s all made up. Well that’s what wishful thinking will do.

You have never been in a good discussion about god. Anyone who believes the creation story and denies evolution can’t be taken seriously. And cherry pickers are only slightly better

I don't know how you can look at the universe and not conclude that rather than being a late outgrowth, intelligence has always existed as the source or matrix for physical stuff.

Maybe not. Look at the beginning of earth. Single cell aren’t smart. We are the only way the universe knows itself. As far as we know. Three billion years ago it may have been mars. 20 million years ago dinosaurs and trilobites ruled. They weren’t intelligent.

And I just don’t conclude anything.

 

[Indeependent]

Didn’t buy it then or now

That's because you are ignorant on how science and logic work.

We already settled the fact that sealy has an accredited PhD in Google Search.

Lots of smart people believe in god. Cognitive dissonance.

Atheist pointing to verses out of context...how shocking!

We’ve all had some great conversations regarding this subject. I discussed with people who are much more intellectually honest than you. Your tactic doesn’t work on us. You aren’t smart. I don’t care if you have a PhD in magic. It’s insane anyone could study it that deeply and not realize it’s all made up. Well that’s what wishful thinking will do.

You have never been in a good discussion about god. Anyone who believes the creation story and denies evolution can’t be taken seriously. And cherry pickers are only slightly better

Yes, I'm sure you made a quick phone call to your cigar smoking, beer drinking poker pal and he set you straight.
This is your all time dumbest post.

 

[Indeependent]

.

It’s insane anyone could study it that deeply and not realize it’s all made up.

or see the forgeries (lies) that negate their writings to pedestrian goals and self indulgence - indeependent ... working hand in hand.

Such as?

 

[Indeependent]

That's because you are ignorant on how science and logic work.

We already settled the fact that sealy has an accredited PhD in Google Search.

Lots of smart people believe in god. Cognitive dissonance.

Atheist pointing to verses out of context...how shocking!

We’ve all had some great conversations regarding this subject. I discussed with people who are much more intellectually honest than you. Your tactic doesn’t work on us. You aren’t smart. I don’t care if you have a PhD in magic. It’s insane anyone could study it that deeply and not realize it’s all made up. Well that’s what wishful thinking will do.

You have never been in a good discussion about god. Anyone who believes the creation story and denies evolution can’t be taken seriously. And cherry pickers are only slightly better

I don't know how you can look at the universe and not conclude that rather than being a late outgrowth, intelligence has always existed as the source or matrix for physical stuff.

I'll keep that in mind the next time an ant behaves not like an ant.
Only humans can so the unexpected.

 

[sealybobo]

We already settled the fact that sealy has an accredited PhD in Google Search.

Lots of smart people believe in god. Cognitive dissonance.

Atheist pointing to verses out of context...how shocking!

We’ve all had some great conversations regarding this subject. I discussed with people who are much more intellectually honest than you. Your tactic doesn’t work on us. You aren’t smart. I don’t care if you have a PhD in magic. It’s insane anyone could study it that deeply and not realize it’s all made up. Well that’s what wishful thinking will do.

You have never been in a good discussion about god. Anyone who believes the creation story and denies evolution can’t be taken seriously. And cherry pickers are only slightly better

I don't know how you can look at the universe and not conclude that rather than being a late outgrowth, intelligence has always existed as the source or matrix for physical stuff.

I'll keep that in mind the next time an ant behaves not like an ant.
Only humans can so the unexpected.

This is your dumbest post

 

[Indeependent]

Lots of smart people believe in god. Cognitive dissonance.

Atheist pointing to verses out of context...how shocking!

We’ve all had some great conversations regarding this subject. I discussed with people who are much more intellectually honest than you. Your tactic doesn’t work on us. You aren’t smart. I don’t care if you have a PhD in magic. It’s insane anyone could study it that deeply and not realize it’s all made up. Well that’s what wishful thinking will do.

You have never been in a good discussion about god. Anyone who believes the creation story and denies evolution can’t be taken seriously. And cherry pickers are only slightly better

I don't know how you can look at the universe and not conclude that rather than being a late outgrowth, intelligence has always existed as the source or matrix for physical stuff.

I'll keep that in mind the next time an ant behaves not like an ant.
Only humans can so the unexpected.

This is your dumbest post

I’m flattered by your originality.

 

[hobelim]

That's because you are ignorant on how science and logic work.

We already settled the fact that sealy has an accredited PhD in Google Search.

Lots of smart people believe in god. Cognitive dissonance.

Atheist pointing to verses out of context...how shocking!

We’ve all had some great conversations regarding this subject. I discussed with people who are much more intellectually honest than you. Your tactic doesn’t work on us. You aren’t smart. I don’t care if you have a PhD in magic. It’s insane anyone could study it that deeply and not realize it’s all made up. Well that’s what wishful thinking will do.

You have never been in a good discussion about god. Anyone who believes the creation story and denies evolution can’t be taken seriously. And cherry pickers are only slightly better

Yes, I'm sure you made a quick phone call to your cigar smoking, beer drinking poker pal and he set you straight.
This is your all time dumbest post.

You have to feel sorry for someone like this.

He was deceived since childhood, subjected to greek orthodox religion, grew some pubic hair and realized it was all bullshit. He then wagered that all religion is bullshit without studying or reading anything other than playboy magazine. Then, realizing that he was naked, he latched on to science and exchanged his individuality, his birthright as a human being, to become an insignificant part of a self-negating multiplicity. Thats why he always refers to himself as "we scientists" (lol) even though he doesn't even own a lab coat and never went to college...

I think his dumbest post was bragging about going to church and pretending to be a Christian to pick up chicks...

lol..


And some people do not believe in Gehenna.

Imagine that!

 

[ding]

We already settled the fact that sealy has an accredited PhD in Google Search.

Lots of smart people believe in god. Cognitive dissonance.

Atheist pointing to verses out of context...how shocking!

We’ve all had some great conversations regarding this subject. I discussed with people who are much more intellectually honest than you. Your tactic doesn’t work on us. You aren’t smart. I don’t care if you have a PhD in magic. It’s insane anyone could study it that deeply and not realize it’s all made up. Well that’s what wishful thinking will do.

You have never been in a good discussion about god. Anyone who believes the creation story and denies evolution can’t be taken seriously. And cherry pickers are only slightly better

I don't know how you can look at the universe and not conclude that rather than being a late outgrowth, intelligence has always existed as the source or matrix for physical stuff.

Maybe not. Look at the beginning of earth. Single cell aren’t smart. We are the only way the universe knows itself. As far as we know. Three billion years ago it may have been mars. 20 million years ago dinosaurs and trilobites ruled. They weren’t intelligent.

And I just don’t conclude anything.

Do you have any idea how much information is required to make a single cell function?

 

[Indeependent]

Lots of smart people believe in god. Cognitive dissonance.

Atheist pointing to verses out of context...how shocking!

We’ve all had some great conversations regarding this subject. I discussed with people who are much more intellectually honest than you. Your tactic doesn’t work on us. You aren’t smart. I don’t care if you have a PhD in magic. It’s insane anyone could study it that deeply and not realize it’s all made up. Well that’s what wishful thinking will do.

You have never been in a good discussion about god. Anyone who believes the creation story and denies evolution can’t be taken seriously. And cherry pickers are only slightly better

I don't know how you can look at the universe and not conclude that rather than being a late outgrowth, intelligence has always existed as the source or matrix for physical stuff.

Maybe not. Look at the beginning of earth. Single cell aren’t smart. We are the only way the universe knows itself. As far as we know. Three billion years ago it may have been mars. 20 million years ago dinosaurs and trilobites ruled. They weren’t intelligent.

And I just don’t conclude anything.

Do you have any idea how much information is required to make a single cell function?

I don’t.

 

[sealybobo]

Atheist pointing to verses out of context...how shocking!

We’ve all had some great conversations regarding this subject. I discussed with people who are much more intellectually honest than you. Your tactic doesn’t work on us. You aren’t smart. I don’t care if you have a PhD in magic. It’s insane anyone could study it that deeply and not realize it’s all made up. Well that’s what wishful thinking will do.

You have never been in a good discussion about god. Anyone who believes the creation story and denies evolution can’t be taken seriously. And cherry pickers are only slightly better

I don't know how you can look at the universe and not conclude that rather than being a late outgrowth, intelligence has always existed as the source or matrix for physical stuff.

Maybe not. Look at the beginning of earth. Single cell aren’t smart. We are the only way the universe knows itself. As far as we know. Three billion years ago it may have been mars. 20 million years ago dinosaurs and trilobites ruled. They weren’t intelligent.

And I just don’t conclude anything.

Do you have any idea how much information is required to make a single cell function?

I don’t.

Ding said "intelligence has always existed as the source or matrix for physical stuff"

What does he mean by that? Can he explain or prove this comment is true?

 

[sealybobo]

Lots of smart people believe in god. Cognitive dissonance.

Atheist pointing to verses out of context...how shocking!

We’ve all had some great conversations regarding this subject. I discussed with people who are much more intellectually honest than you. Your tactic doesn’t work on us. You aren’t smart. I don’t care if you have a PhD in magic. It’s insane anyone could study it that deeply and not realize it’s all made up. Well that’s what wishful thinking will do.

You have never been in a good discussion about god. Anyone who believes the creation story and denies evolution can’t be taken seriously. And cherry pickers are only slightly better

I don't know how you can look at the universe and not conclude that rather than being a late outgrowth, intelligence has always existed as the source or matrix for physical stuff.

Maybe not. Look at the beginning of earth. Single cell aren’t smart. We are the only way the universe knows itself. As far as we know. Three billion years ago it may have been mars. 20 million years ago dinosaurs and trilobites ruled. They weren’t intelligent.

And I just don’t conclude anything.

Do you have any idea how much information is required to make a single cell function?

My mom created me. She didn't know anything other than take my dads pee pee and put it in her yoo hoo. She is intelligent I guess but how much information did she need to make me?

How much information does a chicken need to know to lay and egg? Yet even a stupid chicken can create life.

The big bang is like the chicken. In fact a chicken is smarter because it has a brain. DING wants to believe that an intelligent creator created the big bang and then purposely created us like a scientist in a lab.

In other words Ding thinks some god that looks like us is sitting in his laboratory and intentionally making birds and mosqueto and fish and frogs. He's thinking it through. He's doing it for a reason. There is a purpose.

Where I think that the single cell just multiplied by itself and because the diversity that we see today. No god told the single cell to split one day. It just did. God didn't decide to make polar bears. Nature happened and it wasn't intelligent design.