Why do the God-haters persist?

[Boss]

why chose the Crusades, other than the scripturally bound religion of the middle east it is difficult to believe ordinary people have an ongoing "hatred" for that historical event.

or, are you saying the Islamist (not just Atheists) hate God also rather than the misguided crusaders responsible for the bloodshed ?

Boss, where do you find the "love" in the actions of the crusaders ? -

do you find Love in the scriptures of Bible ?

I find nothing but Love in the teachings of Jesus Christ. If anyone can show me one single word ever spoken by Jesus that was not pure Love, I challenge them to do so. I'm not here to defend religious beliefs or actions of those misguided in their religious beliefs. I don't believe in a religious incarnation of God. We can see by the actions of radical Islamic fundamentalists, not all religious beliefs are good. Some are despicably evil. Men often do terrible things in the name of religion.

My God is Spiritual Nature. A force so profound that man can't wrap his mind around it. We've created religions in order to try and comprehend something we can't. I don't fault man for this, we're trying to do so with the best of intentions, but it's like ants trying to comprehend nuclear physics.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Then I wasn't talking about you, was I?

But there are posters who troll these forums and their sole purpose is to claim they are atheists out of one side of their mouths, while spouting vile garbage ABOUT GOD out of the other side of their mouths, while simultaneously attacking Christians and their right to worship as they please.

So explain to me...why would a so-called "atheist" feel compelled to call out a God they don't believe in, call a God they don't believe in various names, and make ridiculous statements like "If there is a God, he's an asshole because..." fill in the blank.

They can't seem to make up their minds....except on one thing. If there's a God, and they appear to be ambiguous in their belief that there isn't...then he's an asshole, and the people who believe in Him should be ostracized, ridiculed, imprisoned, or worse. They claim they're atheists...but they also profess their hatred of God (in the event that he might exist).

Either way. Charming people. Obviously superior to Christians in every way.

In lieu of acceptable evidence, the existence of G-d is one of those things that can be sensibly argued either way.

Pro-God:
If we had convincing evidence of G-d's existence, belief would be redundant. We'd simply submit ourselves to a being way higher on the food chain out of selfish best interest (not getting stepped on.) Also, if G-d exists, He may simply not feel the egotistical need to prove His existence to lowly humans just as we don't feel the need to constantly prove our existence to lower animals. Although, if G-d values being worshipped and obeyed then He obviously shares at least some psychology in common with us.
Proving His existence is also redundant. According to Torah, the Exodus Jews had such proof of G-d existing. They saw the miracles in Egypt against Pharaoh, then saw the sea split wide allowing their escape etc. Yet even with this proof of G-d, many still doubted Him and disobeyed Him. So having proof doesn't mean you then have compliance or faith too. So why give proof when asked?

Con-God:
Everything 'real' in the universe we know of so far has a science explaining how it works. Further, everythign 'real' is composed of particles (atoms, subatomic particles, etc.) If G-d is real like we are, then G-d MUST be composed of particles just as we are. Especially if He's able to communicate with us orally (for speech to occur some physical manifestation enabling it must exist.) So why in the history of religion has no one ever been able to even hypothesize how gods exist and do the things they do unless they simply don't exist. Can't prove something that doesn't exist doesn't exist (can't prove a negative et al..) But when things do exist, you can at least offer a possible explanation. But thus far religious 'proof' involves 'just believe it or else.' which is obviously unsatisfying and with so many religions all claiming to be right, the likelyhood a current religion is simply the descendent of some previous one becomes more likely than all of a sudden some faith got it right about G-d.

 

[koshergrl]

That's your belief, Boss....

But it doesn't make it right. You've got a lot about it right...except for the sad insistence that you created God, and a real God doesn't exist.

You'll make a fabulous Christian when the Holy Spirit enters in!

 

[Delta4Embassy]

why chose the Crusades, other than the scripturally bound religion of the middle east it is difficult to believe ordinary people have an ongoing "hatred" for that historical event.

or, are you saying the Islamist (not just Atheists) hate God also rather than the misguided crusaders responsible for the bloodshed ?

Boss, where do you find the "love" in the actions of the crusaders ? -

do you find Love in the scriptures of Bible ?

I find nothing but Love in the teachings of Jesus Christ. If anyone can show me one single word ever spoken by Jesus that was not pure Love, I challenge them to do so. I'm not here to defend religious beliefs or actions of those misguided in their religious beliefs. I don't believe in a religious incarnation of God. We can see by the actions of radical Islamic fundamentalists, not all religious beliefs are good. Some are despicably evil. Men often do terrible things in the name of religion.

My God is Spiritual Nature. A force so profound that man can't wrap his mind around it. We've created religions in order to try and comprehend something we can't. I don't fault man for this, we're trying to do so with the best of intentions, but it's like ants trying to comprehend nuclear physics.

Luke I think it is, "If you don't own a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." Not exactly love. Nor is Matthew and Mark when he curses a fig tree for not yielding fruit (even though it was out of season) making it wither and die.

Couple examples off the top of my head.

 

[koshergrl]

We're supposed to love fig trees as people?

See this is the basic disconnect of the god/Christian haters. They don't understand the innate value of humanity, and think there is no more value in a human than in a stick.

Regarding the sword....

"
Cited in isolation, the verse suggests that swords and violence are a possibility. It seems as if all of the disciples should go out and buy one each. After the death and burial of Jesus, they would have to face the world alone without him, so they thought.
However, what happens to the apparent meaning of the verse when it is not read in isolation, but in context? Did Jesus really wield a sword and want all of the disciples to buy one each?
Exegesis of Luke 22:36
The historical context of Luke 22:36 demonstrates that for three years Jesus avoided making a public, triumphal entry of his visits to Jerusalem because he understood that when he set foot in the holy city in this way, he would fulfill his mission to die, in a death that looked like one of a common criminal, just as Isaiah the prophet had predicted hundreds of years before (Is. 53:12). He needed to complete his work outside of Jerusalem.
Now, however, Jesus finally enters the city famous for killing her prophets (Luke 13:33-34), a few days before his arrest, trial and crucifixion, all of which he predicted. Religious leaders were spying on him and asked him trick questions, so they could incriminate him (Luke 20:20). These insincere questions, though they were also asked before he entered the city, increased in frequency during these compacted tense days. But he answered impressively, avoiding their traps. Despite the tension, each day Jesus taught in the temple, and crowds gathered around him, so the authorities could not arrest him, for fear of the people. Then Judas volunteered to betray him, saying that he would report back to the authorities when no crowd was present (Luke 22:1-6).
As Passover drew near, Jesus asked some of his disciples to prepare the Last Supper (most likely the Seder). He elevated the bread and the wine, representing his body and blood, which was broken and shed for the sins of the world in the New Covenant (Luke 22:17-20). However, during the meal, Judas slipped out to search for the authorities because he knew that it was the custom of Jesus to go to the Mount of Olives to pray (Luke 21:37), and that night would be no different.
At this point we pick up the textual context of Luke 22:36 (bold print). He is eating the Last Supper on the night he was betrayed.
Luke 22:35-38 says:

35 [Jesus] asked them [the eleven apostles], "When I sent you out without a purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?"
They said, "No, not a thing."
36 He said to them, "But now the one who has a purse must take it, and likewise a bag. And the one who has no sword must sell his cloak and buy one. 37 For I tell you, this scripture must be fulfilled in me: ‘And he was numbered among the lawless’; and indeed what is written about me is being fulfilled."
38 They [the disciples] said, "See, Lord, here are two swords."
"It is enough," he replied. (NRSV)
​

The textual context reveals at least two truths. First, Jesus contrasts his ministry before his arrival in Jerusalem with the tense few days in Jerusalem when spies and the authorities themselves were seeking to trap him. Does the tension play a part in understanding why he told his disciples to go out and buy swords? This is answered, below. Second, he says that he would be arrested and tried as a criminal, as the prophecy in Is. 53:12 predicted. Does this have anything to do with swords? Do criminals carry them around? This too is explained, below. Jesus may have a deeper meaning in mind than the violent use of the swords. What is it?
The interpretation of the verses can follow either a strictly physical direction in which swords must be used, or a nonphysical one in which swords must not be used, during Jesus’ last hours. The surest and clearest direction is the nonliteral one, but first we analyze why the literal one will not fit into Luke 22:34-38 and into the passage about the arrest in the Garden of Gethsemane (Luke 22:39-53).
Violent use of the swords
Jesus says to the disciples to buy swords, but when they show him two, Jesus says the two are enough. The first direction, the literal one, is inadequate for two reasons.
First, the obvious question is: two swords are enough for what? Are they enough for a physical fight to resist arrest? This is hardly the case because during Jesus’ arrest a disciple (Peter according to John 18:10) took out his sword and cut off the ear of the servant (Malchus according to John 18:10) of the high priest. Jesus sternly tells Peter to put away his sword, "No more of this!" and then he heals the servant, restoring his ear (Luke 22:49-51). Resisting arrest cannot be the purpose of the two swords.
Second, were the two swords enough for an armed rebellion to resist the authorities and to impose the new Jesus movement in a political and military way? Jesus denounces this purpose in Luke 22:52, as the authorities are in the process of arresting him: "Am I leading a rebellion that you have come with swords and clubs?" The answer is no, as he is seized and led away (v. 54).
So the physical interpretation of Luke 22:36 (the two swords were intended to be used) will not work in the larger context. Two swords are not enough to resist arrest, to pull off a revolt of some kind, or to fully protect themselves in the Garden of Gethsemane."

A Brief Explanation of the Sword in Luke 22:36

 

[koshergrl]

"
Jesus wanted the disciples to buy swords, so scripture could be fulfilled when His disciples wielded swords and made themselves "transgressors" for Jesus to be "reckoned among the transgressors."

Calling All Christians: Luke 22:36 is NOT license to fight the government. (VANITY)

Christ told Peter to put away his sword when he drew it. But they needed the swords for the scripture to be fulfilled. It's that simple.

 

[Boss]

Everything 'real' in the universe we know of so far has a science explaining how it works. Further, everythign 'real' is composed of particles (atoms, subatomic particles, etc.) If G-d is real like we are, then G-d MUST be composed of particles just as we are.

But science has shown this not to be true. The universe is 96% dark energy and dark matter. This is not atoms and particles. So is 96% of our universe "unreal?"

Luke I think it is, "If you don't own a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." Not exactly love. Nor is Matthew and Mark when he curses a fig tree for not yielding fruit (even though it was out of season) making it wither and die.

I would have to read the entire context of these statements/events, but I don't believe they teach anything contradictory to Love. It could be a perception thing or a translational barrier, without researching it fully, I couldn't tell you. I just know that Jesus' teachings were about love and forgiveness. He preached this even as he was being crucified on the cross.

 

[GISMYS]

"
Jesus wanted the disciples to buy swords, so scripture could be fulfilled when His disciples wielded swords and made themselves "transgressors" for Jesus to be "reckoned among the transgressors."

Calling All Christians: Luke 22:36 is NOT license to fight the government. (VANITY)

Christ told Peter to put away his sword when he drew it. But they needed the swords for the scripture to be fulfilled. It's that simple.[/QUOTE===============WHAT A WILD CRAZY IDEA!!! GET REAL. GOD WANTS NO ONE TO DO EVIL,GOD WILL NOT TELL PEOPLE TO SIN. THINK!

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Everything 'real' in the universe we know of so far has a science explaining how it works. Further, everythign 'real' is composed of particles (atoms, subatomic particles, etc.) If G-d is real like we are, then G-d MUST be composed of particles just as we are.

But science has shown this not to be true. The universe is 96% dark energy and dark matter. This is not atoms and particles. So is 96% of our universe "unreal?"

Luke I think it is, "If you don't own a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." Not exactly love. Nor is Matthew and Mark when he curses a fig tree for not yielding fruit (even though it was out of season) making it wither and die.

I would have to read the entire context of these statements/events, but I don't believe they teach anything contradictory to Love. It could be a perception thing or a translational barrier, without researching it fully, I couldn't tell you. I just know that Jesus' teachings were about love and forgiveness. He preached this even as he was being crucified on the cross.

Dark matter and energy are in fact 'particles.'

"Dark matter fills the universe, and exerts a gravitational pull on the "normal" matter, like stars and planets, around it. Yet it produces no detectable form of energy – no light, heat, radio waves, or anything else. Some physicists believe that dark matter is a form of particle that was produced in the Big Bang but that has not yet been detected."

"Dark energy, of course, is still in the early stages of study. Physicists who feel that vacuum energy has too many problems are looking for other solutions, and one contender is a new type of particle. Dark-energy particles likely would have been created in the Big Bang as well, and would permeate the entire universe."
New Physics, Or Particle X - Dark Energy - HETDEX

 

[GISMYS]

ROFLMAO!!! What was "true" in science yesterday is proved wrong today!!!

 

[Boss]

That's your belief, Boss....

But it doesn't make it right. You've got a lot about it right...except for the sad insistence that you created God, and a real God doesn't exist.

You'll make a fabulous Christian when the Holy Spirit enters in!

Hold on here... where did I insist that I created God or a real God doesn't exist? Has someone hacked my account and posted that? I don't think it's something I would ever insinuate.

We are created by the power of God. A very real God. My belief is, as humans we are completely unable to comprehend God. Therefore, we need to apply human attributes to God in order to imagine Him. I don't know that I am right, that's just what I personally believe.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Why science is science and religion is religion. Religion by it's very nature cannot change regardless of discoveries that disprove specific assertions. Science can change as new or better experiments confirm its' assertions.

 

[GISMYS]

Why science is science and religion is religion. Religion by it's very nature cannot change regardless of discoveries that disprove specific assertions. Science can change as new or better experiments confirm its' assertions.

YES!!! GOD AND TRUTH are unchanging for all eternity.man's silly ideas and opinions come and go for them what was true yesterday is proven false the next day or year.

 

[G.T.]

Why science is science and religion is religion. Religion by it's very nature cannot change regardless of discoveries that disprove specific assertions. Science can change as new or better experiments confirm its' assertions.

YES!!! GOD AND TRUTH are unchanging for all eternity.man's silly ideas and opinions come and go for them what was true yesterday is proven false the next day or year.

rapture any day now!!! pack your bags!!

 

[Boss]

Everything 'real' in the universe we know of so far has a science explaining how it works. Further, everythign 'real' is composed of particles (atoms, subatomic particles, etc.) If G-d is real like we are, then G-d MUST be composed of particles just as we are.

But science has shown this not to be true. The universe is 96% dark energy and dark matter. This is not atoms and particles. So is 96% of our universe "unreal?"

Luke I think it is, "If you don't own a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." Not exactly love. Nor is Matthew and Mark when he curses a fig tree for not yielding fruit (even though it was out of season) making it wither and die.

I would have to read the entire context of these statements/events, but I don't believe they teach anything contradictory to Love. It could be a perception thing or a translational barrier, without researching it fully, I couldn't tell you. I just know that Jesus' teachings were about love and forgiveness. He preached this even as he was being crucified on the cross.

Dark matter and energy are in fact 'particles.'

"Dark matter fills the universe, and exerts a gravitational pull on the "normal" matter, like stars and planets, around it. Yet it produces no detectable form of energy – no light, heat, radio waves, or anything else. Some physicists believe that dark matter is a form of particle that was produced in the Big Bang but that has not yet been detected."

"Dark energy, of course, is still in the early stages of study. Physicists who feel that vacuum energy has too many problems are looking for other solutions, and one contender is a new type of particle. Dark-energy particles likely would have been created in the Big Bang as well, and would permeate the entire universe."
New Physics, Or Particle X - Dark Energy - HETDEX

You start by proclaiming dark energy "is in fact" particles, then you reveal this is a theory that some scientists believe. Which one is it? Fact or belief?

The fact is, we don't know what dark energy and dark matter is, but it's not atoms. Now previously you intimated that things which are not atoms or particles can't be real. So what we now see is scientists imagining there must be this mysterious particle we haven't yet defined, which explains this phenomena. That's all well and good, but it's far from a "fact."

 

[GISMYS]

Why science is science and religion is religion. Religion by it's very nature cannot change regardless of discoveries that disprove specific assertions. Science can change as new or better experiments confirm its' assertions.

YES!!! GOD AND TRUTH are unchanging for all eternity.man's silly ideas and opinions come and go for them what was true yesterday is proven false the next day or year.

rapture any day now!!! pack your bags!!

YES!!! I AM READY!!! THERE is no upside to being left behind to try to stay alive on a world ruled by evil and under the judgments of OUR JUST GOD ALMIGHTY!

 

[G.T.]

YES!!! GOD AND TRUTH are unchanging for all eternity.man's silly ideas and opinions come and go for them what was true yesterday is proven false the next day or year.

rapture any day now!!! pack your bags!!

YES!!! I AM READY!!! THERE is no upside to being left behind to try to stay alive on a world ruled by evil and under the judgments of OUR JUST GOD ALMIGHTY!

My world isn't ruled by evil.

Where are you living?

 

[GISMYS]

rapture any day now!!! pack your bags!!

YES!!! I AM READY!!! THERE is no upside to being left behind to try to stay alive on a world ruled by evil and under the judgments of OUR JUST GOD ALMIGHTY!

My world isn't ruled by evil.

Where are you living?

WATCH TV NEWS,READ A NEWSAPER AND YOU SEE war and rumor of war,murder,abortion,sexual perversion,stealing, liars,crime and more crime and you blinded see no evil???

 

[koshergrl]

Science is wrong all the time. Science doesn't prove anything. People prove what they want, using scientific methods...of the time. But the one thing we know for sure about science is that it can be used to *prove* one thing..and then be used to *prove* the exact opposite almost immediately thereafter. Or maybe years later. But there are scientific *truths* that were accepted as incontrovertible...that are now recognized as complete and utter tripe.

Place science next to God...and place your money on God every time. There are no lies, no bribes, and no mistakes with God. He knows it all, he knows the truth, and he has no agenda except the salvation of mankind.

 

[koshergrl]

why chose the Crusades, other than the scripturally bound religion of the middle east it is difficult to believe ordinary people have an ongoing "hatred" for that historical event.

or, are you saying the Islamist (not just Atheists) hate God also rather than the misguided crusaders responsible for the bloodshed ?

Boss, where do you find the "love" in the actions of the crusaders ? -

do you find Love in the scriptures of Bible ?

I find nothing but Love in the teachings of Jesus Christ. If anyone can show me one single word ever spoken by Jesus that was not pure Love, I challenge them to do so. I'm not here to defend religious beliefs or actions of those misguided in their religious beliefs. I don't believe in a religious incarnation of God. We can see by the actions of radical Islamic fundamentalists, not all religious beliefs are good. Some are despicably evil. Men often do terrible things in the name of religion.

My God is Spiritual Nature. A force so profound that man can't wrap his mind around it. We've created religions in order to try and comprehend something we can't. I don't fault man for this, we're trying to do so with the best of intentions, but it's like ants trying to comprehend nuclear physics.

Well I agree with you that God is of a spiritual nature.though he is also of a physical nature. I thought that you also said that God was a manmade concept, but in this quote you say that religion is....

I don't believe that is true, but I am comforted that you don't think God is likewise created by man.