Why do the God-haters persist?

[Boss]

So yet again I have to point out that hating the belief in a god(s) is not the same as hating the god(s). Hating the believer is not the same as hating the god(s).

Is there a particular reason you assume atheists cannot hate either the belief or the believer and must, instead, hate the god(s)?

You can't hate what you do not believe exists. I don't know how else to explain that to you. In order to hate something, you have to believe it exists first. If you don't believe in God, why do you need to call him "sky daddy" and other assorted names? It makes no sense. Those are perjoratives designed to insult and infer hate or ridicule for something you very much do believe in but loathe. When you are obsessing with it, spending day after day here, doing the same thing, it is either a mental disorder or you honestly hate the God that you believe exists. There is not another rational explanation.

Now you are doing practically everything you can think of to avoid seeing my point. You've come up with every possible way to create and exception or explain a nuance instead of trying to understand my point, and I wonder why that is? Is it so you can keep on defending your personal God-hate? Is it because you are thick and obtuse? Or is it just because you like to win arguments on any front for the hell of it?

It doesn't really matter to me, if you're stubbornly going to refuse to see my point, there isn't much I can do about that. You just keep trying to sidestep it and carve out an exception... well, there are exceptions to everything. I've not said that 100% of the time in all cases this is true. It's my observation, I've made my point, and if you don't agree with me, that's fine.

Wow, pot meet kettle.

Once again! Hating a belief in god is not hating the god. Hating believers in god is not hating god. Are you able to understand that yet?

Each time I bring up hating not the god, but the belief in it or those who believe, you once again go right back to assuming any hatred must be of the god itself. That's simply untrue and a completely foolish assumption to make. Why is it only with god that a person cannot hate a belief? Certainly this board shows many people hating various political beliefs. Is that for some reason impossible with religious belief?

Clearly when someone uses the term 'sky daddy' it is an insult. However, only someone reaching for ways to fit things into their preconceived notions of god hate would think it is anything other than an insult to the believer. It is a dig at someone who believes in god. That doesn't indicate the insulter believes! I could call Santa Clause the fat fairy, it wouldn't indicate I believe in his existence!

I'm not sidestepping. I'm pointing out the clear differences that you seem incapable of accepting. Hating something you don't believe in isn't possible. Hating the idea of something, or the people who believe in the thing, certainly is. For some reason, in your mind, that doesn't seem to be true.

I have no idea what you mean by "pot meet kettle" ...you keep saying it, but you're failing to explain why the anecdote applies. I am not obsessively attacking something I don't believe exists. Find an example of me doing that and I will admit you got me.

Again, hating and loathing someone to the point of obsession the way some do here, is not indicative of people who don't believe in something. The God-haters firmly believe those who worship God gain some sort of benefit from it, and they detest this. They know that God influences these people and they don't like that. If that were not the case, it wouldn't matter, just as it doesn't matter that some people believe in Santa, the Easter Bunny, alien abductions, ghosts, etc. They're not obsessively attacking those people, are they?

Yes, you can say Santa is a fat fairy and it doesn't mean you believe in Santa... but if you spent nearly all your waking hours seeking out those who believe in Santa to ridicule and denigrate them in every imaginative way possible, one would have to conclude that you either have a mental problem or there was something about those people's belief that caused you great consternation. If you didn't believe there was anything to it, why would it bother you?

 

[Boss]

Once again the OP's canards are exposed!

Sorry, I am not seeing where I said I was in research there.

The "canard" seems to be your focus on my personal life instead of the thread OP.

your hole even deeper again?

When you "study behavior in humans" that is research. Fascinating how you don't even know the common terms and their meanings in your alleged own line of work.

Your credibility as the OP is what is in question now. Since you utterly failed to substantiate your OP and then tried to bolster yourself by alleging to be a "psychologist" it is perfectly legitimate to vet your latest claim.

That this claim appears to be as bogus as your OP comes as no surprise.

Hmm... Not seeing the word research anywhere in what I said. Sorry.
"I am a psychologist" --true statement, I have a degree in psychology from the University of Alabama, 1983.
"I study behavior in humans" ---true statement, does not denote "research" in any way.

 

[Derideo_Te]

You can't hate what you do not believe exists. I don't know how else to explain that to you. In order to hate something, you have to believe it exists first. If you don't believe in God, why do you need to call him "sky daddy" and other assorted names? It makes no sense. Those are perjoratives designed to insult and infer hate or ridicule for something you very much do believe in but loathe. When you are obsessing with it, spending day after day here, doing the same thing, it is either a mental disorder or you honestly hate the God that you believe exists. There is not another rational explanation.

Now you are doing practically everything you can think of to avoid seeing my point. You've come up with every possible way to create and exception or explain a nuance instead of trying to understand my point, and I wonder why that is? Is it so you can keep on defending your personal God-hate? Is it because you are thick and obtuse? Or is it just because you like to win arguments on any front for the hell of it?

It doesn't really matter to me, if you're stubbornly going to refuse to see my point, there isn't much I can do about that. You just keep trying to sidestep it and carve out an exception... well, there are exceptions to everything. I've not said that 100% of the time in all cases this is true. It's my observation, I've made my point, and if you don't agree with me, that's fine.

Wow, pot meet kettle.

Once again! Hating a belief in god is not hating the god. Hating believers in god is not hating god. Are you able to understand that yet?

Each time I bring up hating not the god, but the belief in it or those who believe, you once again go right back to assuming any hatred must be of the god itself. That's simply untrue and a completely foolish assumption to make. Why is it only with god that a person cannot hate a belief? Certainly this board shows many people hating various political beliefs. Is that for some reason impossible with religious belief?

Clearly when someone uses the term 'sky daddy' it is an insult. However, only someone reaching for ways to fit things into their preconceived notions of god hate would think it is anything other than an insult to the believer. It is a dig at someone who believes in god. That doesn't indicate the insulter believes! I could call Santa Clause the fat fairy, it wouldn't indicate I believe in his existence!

I'm not sidestepping. I'm pointing out the clear differences that you seem incapable of accepting. Hating something you don't believe in isn't possible. Hating the idea of something, or the people who believe in the thing, certainly is. For some reason, in your mind, that doesn't seem to be true.

I have no idea what you mean by "pot meet kettle" ...you keep saying it, but you're failing to explain why the anecdote applies. I am not obsessively attacking something I don't believe exists. Find an example of me doing that and I will admit you got me.

Again, hating and loathing someone to the point of obsession the way some do here, is not indicative of people who don't believe in something. The God-haters firmly believe those who worship God gain some sort of benefit from it, and they detest this. They know that God influences these people and they don't like that. If that were not the case, it wouldn't matter, just as it doesn't matter that some people believe in Santa, the Easter Bunny, alien abductions, ghosts, etc. They're not obsessively attacking those people, are they?

Yes, you can say Santa is a fat fairy and it doesn't mean you believe in Santa... but if you spent nearly all your waking hours seeking out those who believe in Santa to ridicule and denigrate them in every imaginative way possible, one would have to conclude that you either have a mental problem or there was something about those people's belief that caused you great consternation. If you didn't believe there was anything to it, why would it bother you?

The God-haters firmly believe those who worship God gain some sort of benefit from it, and they detest this.

The OP has consistently FAILED to prove any of the following;

1. There are "god haters".

2. That "god haters" have any of the "beliefs" that he alleges they have.

3. That "god haters" "detest" whatever "benefit" those who worship God might obtain.

All of the above only exists in the OP's fevered imagination. He is utterly obsessed with these mythical "god haters" and goes around accusing people of being "god haters" much like the witch-finders of yore. Next thing he will be insisting upon using a ducking stool on innocent people to "prove" that they are "god haters" If they drown they are innocent and if they don't that means they must be "god haters".

 

[Derideo_Te]

Sorry, I am not seeing where I said I was in research there.

The "canard" seems to be your focus on my personal life instead of the thread OP.

your hole even deeper again?

When you "study behavior in humans" that is research. Fascinating how you don't even know the common terms and their meanings in your alleged own line of work.

Your credibility as the OP is what is in question now. Since you utterly failed to substantiate your OP and then tried to bolster yourself by alleging to be a "psychologist" it is perfectly legitimate to vet your latest claim.

That this claim appears to be as bogus as your OP comes as no surprise.

Hmm... Not seeing the word research anywhere in what I said. Sorry.
"I am a psychologist" --true statement, I have a degree in psychology from the University of Alabama, 1983.
"I study behavior in humans" ---true statement, does not denote "research" in any way.

Let me google that for you

 

[daws101]

Clinical psychologists have a wide range of clients. Who is included depends on the setting, the role, the interests, and the training of the particular psychologists in question. In a private practice focusing on life coaching, a broad sample of the general population would be seen. In an educational setting, both students and staff could be clients. In a hospital environment, patients with psychological issues affecting their physical health might be the focus (e.g., those with diabetes, cardiac disease, epilepsy, or chronic pain). In community mental health agencies, clients might include people with mental disorders, such as bipolar affective disorder, dissociative identity disorder (i.e., multiple personality disorders), schizophrenia, mental retardation, or significant life struggles (e.g., gender issues).

And what you are doing now is trying again to save face after demonstrating your ignorance. This is getting to be a habit with you. You stick your size 12 in your pie hole, then you have to come back and spin it to do damage control.

Again, psychologists do not have "clients." A psychiatrist (who has a degree in psychology) may have clients. An educator who has a degree in education and psychology, may have students. Hospitals and community health centers do not have psychologists, they sometimes have psychiatrists who have degrees in psychology. Most psychologists (who do not have medical degrees in psychiatry) work for research groups. Sometimes those research groups may be associated with a large medical center like Johns Hopkins. The psychologist still doesn't have "clients."

Why we are waist-deep in this discussion, I do not know. It has nothing to do with the topic or OP. It's a bit of personal information I revealed about myself, and it appears you want to challenge that, for some odd reason. I guess it's because I've been kicking your ass around this place for so long, you are getting desperate to make any kind of point. Sorry, but challenging someone's professional credentials is usually not a real wise way to go about that. Just saying.

since you have no professional credentials ,unless they give them out for hubris..
the only one doing damage control and getting their ass hand to them is you...

 

[daws101]

no you claim to be a psychologist !
psychologists have to keep their religious views separate from their profession so as not to taint their advice to clients.
I've yet to see you take a neutral position in any of your posts..

A few points I need to correct you on here. First of all, psychologists do not have "clients" (...you may be thinking of psychiatrists.) A psychologist is a scientist who studies human behavior. Secondly, I do not post at USMB in an "official" capacity of my profession, but as an individual posting his opinion and viewpoint. Lastly, I have no "religious" views, other than the view that I don't condone or advocate any organized religious doctrine. I am a Spiritualist. I believe in a Spiritual Nature and Spiritual God.

Imagine that? Someone who claims to be a psychologist but doesn't even know that clinical/counseling psychologists treat patients (not "clients").

A psychologist evaluates, diagnoses, treats, and studies behavior and mental processes.[1] Some psychologists, such as clinical and counseling psychologists, provide mental health care, and some psychologists, such as social or organizational psychologists conduct research and provide consultation services..

Psychologist - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Furthermore it requires advanced degrees (mostly doctorates) to be classified as a psychologist with the only exception being a "school psychologist" but the OP claims to be in "research" and is a "scientist who studies human behavior" instead. (Makes one wonder why he picked an inane handle like "the boss" )

Nothing in the OP's posts indicate that he has any great depth of education, or that he has any insight into human behavior, or any grasp whatsoever of the scientific method. Quite the opposite in fact. He demonstrates an inability to express himself clearly and concisely, he has an all too obvious problem controlling his emotions and he posts logical fallacies on a regular basis.

So perhaps he is just a PsyINO!

bump

 

[daws101]

 

[Boss]

Ahh... Now I can rest assured I have made my point brilliantly! Dawsy is posting memes!

 

[daws101]

Ahh... Now I can rest assured I have made my point brilliantly! Dawsy is posting memes!

sure you can but as with everything you post it's false.
your meme phobia is truly telling.. do you have other ocd issues?

 

[Montrovant]

You can't hate what you do not believe exists. I don't know how else to explain that to you. In order to hate something, you have to believe it exists first. If you don't believe in God, why do you need to call him "sky daddy" and other assorted names? It makes no sense. Those are perjoratives designed to insult and infer hate or ridicule for something you very much do believe in but loathe. When you are obsessing with it, spending day after day here, doing the same thing, it is either a mental disorder or you honestly hate the God that you believe exists. There is not another rational explanation.

Now you are doing practically everything you can think of to avoid seeing my point. You've come up with every possible way to create and exception or explain a nuance instead of trying to understand my point, and I wonder why that is? Is it so you can keep on defending your personal God-hate? Is it because you are thick and obtuse? Or is it just because you like to win arguments on any front for the hell of it?

It doesn't really matter to me, if you're stubbornly going to refuse to see my point, there isn't much I can do about that. You just keep trying to sidestep it and carve out an exception... well, there are exceptions to everything. I've not said that 100% of the time in all cases this is true. It's my observation, I've made my point, and if you don't agree with me, that's fine.

Wow, pot meet kettle.

Once again! Hating a belief in god is not hating the god. Hating believers in god is not hating god. Are you able to understand that yet?

Each time I bring up hating not the god, but the belief in it or those who believe, you once again go right back to assuming any hatred must be of the god itself. That's simply untrue and a completely foolish assumption to make. Why is it only with god that a person cannot hate a belief? Certainly this board shows many people hating various political beliefs. Is that for some reason impossible with religious belief?

Clearly when someone uses the term 'sky daddy' it is an insult. However, only someone reaching for ways to fit things into their preconceived notions of god hate would think it is anything other than an insult to the believer. It is a dig at someone who believes in god. That doesn't indicate the insulter believes! I could call Santa Clause the fat fairy, it wouldn't indicate I believe in his existence!

I'm not sidestepping. I'm pointing out the clear differences that you seem incapable of accepting. Hating something you don't believe in isn't possible. Hating the idea of something, or the people who believe in the thing, certainly is. For some reason, in your mind, that doesn't seem to be true.

I have no idea what you mean by "pot meet kettle" ...you keep saying it, but you're failing to explain why the anecdote applies. I am not obsessively attacking something I don't believe exists. Find an example of me doing that and I will admit you got me.

Again, hating and loathing someone to the point of obsession the way some do here, is not indicative of people who don't believe in something. The God-haters firmly believe those who worship God gain some sort of benefit from it, and they detest this. They know that God influences these people and they don't like that. If that were not the case, it wouldn't matter, just as it doesn't matter that some people believe in Santa, the Easter Bunny, alien abductions, ghosts, etc. They're not obsessively attacking those people, are they?

Yes, you can say Santa is a fat fairy and it doesn't mean you believe in Santa... but if you spent nearly all your waking hours seeking out those who believe in Santa to ridicule and denigrate them in every imaginative way possible, one would have to conclude that you either have a mental problem or there was something about those people's belief that caused you great consternation. If you didn't believe there was anything to it, why would it bother you?

There are multiple ways in which the pot calling the kettle black applies to you.

First, while you may not be obsessively posting about something you don't believe in, you are obsessively posting as well as insulting, which you deride the supposed god-haters for.

Next, you are clearly refusing to see my point, repeated multiple times, that one can easily hate the belief in god without believing the god exists, just as one can easily hate believers without believing the god exists. Each time I've pointed out that simple and obvious truth to you, you've fallen back on assuming that these atheists must believe in god.

If these god-haters think that believers gain some benefit from their belief, why assume they think the benefit is borne of the actions of god? Perhaps they believe society provides benefits to the believers and are jealous or resentful of those benefits.

Really, what bothers me most is probably that you admit that atheists don't believe in god, and when presented with self-professed atheists, rather than looking for a reason for their actions not rooted in belief in god, you instead go straight to that belief as your answer.

I completely agree, an atheist will not hate god because he/she doesn't believe in god. But that's the point! They don't believe, so why jump to the conclusion they do? Because being insulting and obsessively posting about a topic isn't rational? That's pretty much the M.O. of 75% of the posts on this board! Why is such behavior rational and acceptable in politics, but not religion?

Some people have a strong desire to try and convince others their views are correct. That's why we argue, particularly about subjects like these in which actually swaying someone to your view is such a rarity. Can you agree with those statements?

 

[Boss]

There are multiple ways in which the pot calling the kettle black applies to you.

First, while you may not be obsessively posting about something you don't believe in, you are obsessively posting as well as insulting, which you deride the supposed god-haters for.

No no no... I do not deride them for obsessively posting or insulting, I deride them for being dishonest players. If someone said, "I believe in God, I just hate the mofo!" I'm fine with that! If someone said, "I realize God is real and you believe in Him or have a sense of loyalty to Him and get some benefit from that, and I hate you for it!" I'm fine with that! No problem whatsoever!

Next, you are clearly refusing to see my point, repeated multiple times, that one can easily hate the belief in god without believing the god exists, just as one can easily hate believers without believing the god exists. Each time I've pointed out that simple and obvious truth to you, you've fallen back on assuming that these atheists must believe in god.

Well it's because it's not rational behavior when it becomes an obsession. There is no rational reason to hate something that doesn't exist, nor to hate the belief in something that is academic. It's pointless and irrational. Now some people are pointless and irrational, but most who behave this way are just dishonest.

If these god-haters think that believers gain some benefit from their belief, why assume they think the benefit is borne of the actions of god? Perhaps they believe society provides benefits to the believers and are jealous or resentful of those benefits.

Because there is no societal benefit to religious conviction of faith. The religious are the most persecuted people on the planet. They certainly don't get any breaks in society for believing in God. I'm not complaining about that, it's just a fact of life.

Really, what bothers me most is probably that you admit that atheists don't believe in god, and when presented with self-professed atheists, rather than looking for a reason for their actions not rooted in belief in god, you instead go straight to that belief as your answer.

Again, just because someone claims they are an Atheist, doesn't make it true. I contend there are some "Atheists" who are bigger believers in God than some so-called "Christians." People lie all the time about who they are.

I completely agree, an atheist will not hate god because he/she doesn't believe in god. But that's the point! They don't believe, so why jump to the conclusion they do? Because being insulting and obsessively posting about a topic isn't rational? That's pretty much the M.O. of 75% of the posts on this board! Why is such behavior rational and acceptable in politics, but not religion?

Because politics affect our lives and are very much real and believable things. People are passionate about what they believe in. They are not obsessed with what they don't believe exists or things they believe are pointless and superficial. I don't jump to the conclusion that a true Atheist actually believes in God, and I haven't made that argument.

Some people have a strong desire to try and convince others their views are correct. That's why we argue, particularly about subjects like these in which actually swaying someone to your view is such a rarity. Can you agree with those statements?

You try to sway the views of others when it matters to you, when it affects you personally, when you know and are aware of the opposing viewpoint being relevant and meaningful. If you don't believe the opposing view has validity or is meaningless, what difference does it make? How does that affect you? Why would you rationally obsess on something that has no merit or doesn't matter because it's superficial and not real? Makes no logical sense.

 

[daws101]

There are multiple ways in which the pot calling the kettle black applies to you.

First, while you may not be obsessively posting about something you don't believe in, you are obsessively posting as well as insulting, which you deride the supposed god-haters for.

No no no... I do not deride them for obsessively posting or insulting, I deride them for being dishonest players. If someone said, "I believe in God, I just hate the mofo!" I'm fine with that! If someone said, "I realize God is real and you believe in Him or have a sense of loyalty to Him and get some benefit from that, and I hate you for it!" I'm fine with that! No problem whatsoever!

Next, you are clearly refusing to see my point, repeated multiple times, that one can easily hate the belief in god without believing the god exists, just as one can easily hate believers without believing the god exists. Each time I've pointed out that simple and obvious truth to you, you've fallen back on assuming that these atheists must believe in god.

Well it's because it's not rational behavior when it becomes an obsession. There is no rational reason to hate something that doesn't exist, nor to hate the belief in something that is academic. It's pointless and irrational. Now some people are pointless and irrational, but most who behave this way are just dishonest.



Because there is no societal benefit to religious conviction of faith. The religious are the most persecuted people on the planet. They certainly don't get any breaks in society for believing in God. I'm not complaining about that, it's just a fact of life.



Again, just because someone claims they are an Atheist, doesn't make it true. I contend there are some "Atheists" who are bigger believers in God than some so-called "Christians." People lie all the time about who they are.

I completely agree, an atheist will not hate god because he/she doesn't believe in god. But that's the point! They don't believe, so why jump to the conclusion they do? Because being insulting and obsessively posting about a topic isn't rational? That's pretty much the M.O. of 75% of the posts on this board! Why is such behavior rational and acceptable in politics, but not religion?

Because politics affect our lives and are very much real and believable things. People are passionate about what they believe in. They are not obsessed with what they don't believe exists or things they believe are pointless and superficial. I don't jump to the conclusion that a true Atheist actually believes in God, and I haven't made that argument.

Some people have a strong desire to try and convince others their views are correct. That's why we argue, particularly about subjects like these in which actually swaying someone to your view is such a rarity. Can you agree with those statements?

You try to sway the views of others when it matters to you, when it affects you personally, when you know and are aware of the opposing viewpoint being relevant and meaningful. If you don't believe the opposing view has validity or is meaningless, what difference does it make? How does that affect you? Why would you rationally obsess on something that has no merit or doesn't matter because it's superficial and not real? Makes no logical sense.

the award for best unessential rationalizing goes to.....

 

[Montrovant]

There are multiple ways in which the pot calling the kettle black applies to you.

First, while you may not be obsessively posting about something you don't believe in, you are obsessively posting as well as insulting, which you deride the supposed god-haters for.

No no no... I do not deride them for obsessively posting or insulting, I deride them for being dishonest players. If someone said, "I believe in God, I just hate the mofo!" I'm fine with that! If someone said, "I realize God is real and you believe in Him or have a sense of loyalty to Him and get some benefit from that, and I hate you for it!" I'm fine with that! No problem whatsoever!

Next, you are clearly refusing to see my point, repeated multiple times, that one can easily hate the belief in god without believing the god exists, just as one can easily hate believers without believing the god exists. Each time I've pointed out that simple and obvious truth to you, you've fallen back on assuming that these atheists must believe in god.

Well it's because it's not rational behavior when it becomes an obsession. There is no rational reason to hate something that doesn't exist, nor to hate the belief in something that is academic. It's pointless and irrational. Now some people are pointless and irrational, but most who behave this way are just dishonest.



Because there is no societal benefit to religious conviction of faith. The religious are the most persecuted people on the planet. They certainly don't get any breaks in society for believing in God. I'm not complaining about that, it's just a fact of life.



Again, just because someone claims they are an Atheist, doesn't make it true. I contend there are some "Atheists" who are bigger believers in God than some so-called "Christians." People lie all the time about who they are.

I completely agree, an atheist will not hate god because he/she doesn't believe in god. But that's the point! They don't believe, so why jump to the conclusion they do? Because being insulting and obsessively posting about a topic isn't rational? That's pretty much the M.O. of 75% of the posts on this board! Why is such behavior rational and acceptable in politics, but not religion?

Because politics affect our lives and are very much real and believable things. People are passionate about what they believe in. They are not obsessed with what they don't believe exists or things they believe are pointless and superficial. I don't jump to the conclusion that a true Atheist actually believes in God, and I haven't made that argument.

Some people have a strong desire to try and convince others their views are correct. That's why we argue, particularly about subjects like these in which actually swaying someone to your view is such a rarity. Can you agree with those statements?

You try to sway the views of others when it matters to you, when it affects you personally, when you know and are aware of the opposing viewpoint being relevant and meaningful. If you don't believe the opposing view has validity or is meaningless, what difference does it make? How does that affect you? Why would you rationally obsess on something that has no merit or doesn't matter because it's superficial and not real? Makes no logical sense.

If you think the religious beliefs of others have no effect on you, you are in the minority IMO. People of all different beliefs feel they are persecuted or looked down upon, that people of other beliefs are setting policy which contradicts or suppresses their own beliefs, etc. etc.

Have you read this board? A large portion of the arguments revolve around things that don't effect the posters any more than religion (which, as I already pointed out, can have a large effect on people's lives). You seem to be making another assumption; that the religion of others is unimportant to most people, or even just to atheists. I have no idea what that assumption is based on.

I am confident that many atheists feel the religious get benefits in our society they do not. Just look at our politicians, who nearly all express religious belief. Look at any poll as to the religious identification of adults in this country : the vast majority claim some sort of religious belief. Atheists are most certainly a small minority, and as such, are probably more at risk of being the outcasts, the outsiders. Any member of a 'different' group has a risk of that. Your posts in this thread can be seen as an example of it!

So atheists must be logical and rational. Is there any other group you feel must be lying if they do not act in ways you consider logical and rational? Apparently political affiliations are given a pass. Do believers need to act logically and rationally, or can they be as obsessive as they want?

I find it amazing and pretty hilarious that you claim people will only act in ways you find acceptable or reasonable. Especially as I would say most of your arguments here are anything but.

 

[Boss]

If you think the religious beliefs of others have no effect on you, you are in the minority IMO. People of all different beliefs feel they are persecuted or looked down upon, that people of other beliefs are setting policy which contradicts or suppresses their own beliefs, etc. etc.

I'm not an Atheist who doesn't believe in a God or that religious people are practicing a pointless endeavor. Whether other people feel persecuted has nothing to do with my point. Religious people are persecuted every single day. There is no "social advantage" for the religious. You made that baseless claim, not me.

Have you read this board? A large portion of the arguments revolve around things that don't effect the posters any more than religion (which, as I already pointed out, can have a large effect on people's lives). You seem to be making another assumption; that the religion of others is unimportant to most people, or even just to atheists. I have no idea what that assumption is based on.

Again, it doesn't matter what other arguments are being made or how they affect others. That's not the point of our conversation. Has nothing to do with it whatsoever. The assumption I'm making is based on the fact that Atheists don't believe in God and don't believe worshiping God has any purpose. God-haters obviously believe differently, which is why they obsess and hate. Religion of others is very important to them.

I am confident that many atheists feel the religious get benefits in our society they do not. Just look at our politicians, who nearly all express religious belief. Look at any poll as to the religious identification of adults in this country : the vast majority claim some sort of religious belief. Atheists are most certainly a small minority, and as such, are probably more at risk of being the outcasts, the outsiders. Any member of a 'different' group has a risk of that. Your posts in this thread can be seen as an example of it!

You can be confident all you like, you've not listed a single social benefit to being religious. My post? Hell, have you been reading the same comments as me? Doesn't look as if I am winning any favor here with my viewpoint, does it? What fucking "advantage" do you see me getting out of this?

So atheists must be logical and rational. Is there any other group you feel must be lying if they do not act in ways you consider logical and rational? Apparently political affiliations are given a pass. Do believers need to act logically and rationally, or can they be as obsessive as they want?

I did not say they must be logical and rational, did I? No... In fact, I admitted that sometimes people aren't logical and rational. I've also not said a thing about legitimate Atheists, you are again trying to confuse Atheists with God-haters... two different animals.

I find it amazing and pretty hilarious that you claim people will only act in ways you find acceptable or reasonable. Especially as I would say most of your arguments here are anything but.

I didn't say people have to behave the way I want them to, did I? NOPE! Again, we see that you are just making shit up as you go along. No wonder you have the view you do about my arguments, you're going out of your way to twist my arguments into absurdities you can contradict. When you do that, it automatically makes you biased toward my arguments. I can't fucking make you stop, dude. If you want to distort what I say into things you can trash and bash, there's not a damn thing in the world I can do about that.

 

[Montrovant]

If you think the religious beliefs of others have no effect on you, you are in the minority IMO. People of all different beliefs feel they are persecuted or looked down upon, that people of other beliefs are setting policy which contradicts or suppresses their own beliefs, etc. etc.

I'm not an Atheist who doesn't believe in a God or that religious people are practicing a pointless endeavor. Whether other people feel persecuted has nothing to do with my point. Religious people are persecuted every single day. There is no "social advantage" for the religious. You made that baseless claim, not me.

Have you read this board? A large portion of the arguments revolve around things that don't effect the posters any more than religion (which, as I already pointed out, can have a large effect on people's lives). You seem to be making another assumption; that the religion of others is unimportant to most people, or even just to atheists. I have no idea what that assumption is based on.

Again, it doesn't matter what other arguments are being made or how they affect others. That's not the point of our conversation. Has nothing to do with it whatsoever. The assumption I'm making is based on the fact that Atheists don't believe in God and don't believe worshiping God has any purpose. God-haters obviously believe differently, which is why they obsess and hate. Religion of others is very important to them.



You can be confident all you like, you've not listed a single social benefit to being religious. My post? Hell, have you been reading the same comments as me? Doesn't look as if I am winning any favor here with my viewpoint, does it? What fucking "advantage" do you see me getting out of this?

So atheists must be logical and rational. Is there any other group you feel must be lying if they do not act in ways you consider logical and rational? Apparently political affiliations are given a pass. Do believers need to act logically and rationally, or can they be as obsessive as they want?

I did not say they must be logical and rational, did I? No... In fact, I admitted that sometimes people aren't logical and rational. I've also not said a thing about legitimate Atheists, you are again trying to confuse Atheists with God-haters... two different animals.

I find it amazing and pretty hilarious that you claim people will only act in ways you find acceptable or reasonable. Especially as I would say most of your arguments here are anything but.

I didn't say people have to behave the way I want them to, did I? NOPE! Again, we see that you are just making shit up as you go along. No wonder you have the view you do about my arguments, you're going out of your way to twist my arguments into absurdities you can contradict. When you do that, it automatically makes you biased toward my arguments. I can't fucking make you stop, dude. If you want to distort what I say into things you can trash and bash, there's not a damn thing in the world I can do about that.

Actually, you did say that people have to behave the way you want them to, in that you said atheists will not be obsessive about believers or belief or god, they will not insult and spew vitriol about god or believers, etc. What you have said is basically that in order to be a 'true' atheist, a person must not divert from your set of behavioral standards. I don't have to distort anything. When you say atheists will not do certain things which have nothing to do with what makes them atheists, especially when you don't feel the same standards apply to other kinds of belief or lack of belief, you speak for yourself.

You said it would not be rational for atheists to argue 'obsessively' about god. What would be the point of that argument if you think atheists often act irrationally? Wouldn't that kind of undermine your entire god-hater idea?

I should have been more specific. You are correct that those with unusual religious or spiritual beliefs are unlikely to get much societal benefit from those beliefs. They, like atheists, are in the minority, and so will find themselves on the outside looking in at times.

Atheists do not need to believe that worshiping god serves no purpose. They just don't believe in the existence of god. That doesn't mean religion cannot serve a purpose. Once again, you set standards for the belief or behavior of atheists beyond the definition of atheism.

Use your own definition of atheism if you like. If you want to argue anything about atheists, however, you might want to clearly state that definition rather than assume others know and agree with the one you are using which is neither a dictionary definition nor a common use one.

I'm not making shit up as I go along. I'm taking your posts and responding to the things you are saying. I'm sorry if you don't mean what you are saying.

 

[BreezeWood]

just curious Boss, have the Santa Clause believers ever tortured to death those who question their beliefs ?

Well I hardly believe anyone here was affected by the Crusades. But even so, if the God-haters simply admitted they hate God because of the Crusades, I would totally understand the justifications for their vitriolic hate.

... they hate God because of the Crusades


why chose the Crusades, other than the scripturally bound religion of the middle east it is difficult to believe ordinary people have an ongoing "hatred" for that historical event.

or, are you saying the Islamist (not just Atheists) hate God also rather than the misguided crusaders responsible for the bloodshed ?

Boss, where do you find the "love" in the actions of the crusaders ? -

do you find Love in the scriptures of Bible ?

.

 

[koshergrl]

Wow, pot meet kettle.

Once again! Hating a belief in god is not hating the god. Hating believers in god is not hating god. Are you able to understand that yet?

Each time I bring up hating not the god, but the belief in it or those who believe, you once again go right back to assuming any hatred must be of the god itself. That's simply untrue and a completely foolish assumption to make. Why is it only with god that a person cannot hate a belief? Certainly this board shows many people hating various political beliefs. Is that for some reason impossible with religious belief?

Clearly when someone uses the term 'sky daddy' it is an insult. However, only someone reaching for ways to fit things into their preconceived notions of god hate would think it is anything other than an insult to the believer. It is a dig at someone who believes in god. That doesn't indicate the insulter believes! I could call Santa Clause the fat fairy, it wouldn't indicate I believe in his existence!

I'm not sidestepping. I'm pointing out the clear differences that you seem incapable of accepting. Hating something you don't believe in isn't possible. Hating the idea of something, or the people who believe in the thing, certainly is. For some reason, in your mind, that doesn't seem to be true.

I have no idea what you mean by "pot meet kettle" ...you keep saying it, but you're failing to explain why the anecdote applies. I am not obsessively attacking something I don't believe exists. Find an example of me doing that and I will admit you got me.

Again, hating and loathing someone to the point of obsession the way some do here, is not indicative of people who don't believe in something. The God-haters firmly believe those who worship God gain some sort of benefit from it, and they detest this. They know that God influences these people and they don't like that. If that were not the case, it wouldn't matter, just as it doesn't matter that some people believe in Santa, the Easter Bunny, alien abductions, ghosts, etc. They're not obsessively attacking those people, are they?

Yes, you can say Santa is a fat fairy and it doesn't mean you believe in Santa... but if you spent nearly all your waking hours seeking out those who believe in Santa to ridicule and denigrate them in every imaginative way possible, one would have to conclude that you either have a mental problem or there was something about those people's belief that caused you great consternation. If you didn't believe there was anything to it, why would it bother you?

The God-haters firmly believe those who worship God gain some sort of benefit from it, and they detest this.

The OP has consistently FAILED to prove any of the following;

1. There are "god haters".

2. That "god haters" have any of the "beliefs" that he alleges they have.

3. That "god haters" "detest" whatever "benefit" those who worship God might obtain.

All of the above only exists in the OP's fevered imagination. He is utterly obsessed with these mythical "god haters" and goes around accusing people of being "god haters" much like the witch-finders of yore. Next thing he will be insisting upon using a ducking stool on innocent people to "prove" that they are "god haters" If they drown they are innocent and if they don't that means they must be "god haters".

God haters and anti-Christian bigots post on here every day.

Every. Single. Day.

And they claim they are atheists.

 

[GISMYS]

just curious Boss, have the Santa Clause believers ever tortured to death those who question their beliefs ?

Well I hardly believe anyone here was affected by the Crusades. But even so, if the God-haters simply admitted they hate God because of the Crusades, I would totally understand the justifications for their vitriolic hate.

... they hate God because of the Crusades


why chose the Crusades, other than the scripturally bound religion of the middle east it is difficult to believe ordinary people have an ongoing "hatred" for that historical event.

or, are you saying the Islamist (not just Atheists) hate God also rather than the misguided crusaders responsible for the bloodshed ?

Boss, where do you find the "love" in the actions of the crusaders ? -

do you find Love in the scriptures of Bible ?

.

Why would any "thinking" person try to blame God for the sins of so called crusaders 1000 years ago????

 

[Steven_R]

I have no idea what you mean by "pot meet kettle" ...you keep saying it, but you're failing to explain why the anecdote applies. I am not obsessively attacking something I don't believe exists. Find an example of me doing that and I will admit you got me.

Again, hating and loathing someone to the point of obsession the way some do here, is not indicative of people who don't believe in something. The God-haters firmly believe those who worship God gain some sort of benefit from it, and they detest this. They know that God influences these people and they don't like that. If that were not the case, it wouldn't matter, just as it doesn't matter that some people believe in Santa, the Easter Bunny, alien abductions, ghosts, etc. They're not obsessively attacking those people, are they?

Yes, you can say Santa is a fat fairy and it doesn't mean you believe in Santa... but if you spent nearly all your waking hours seeking out those who believe in Santa to ridicule and denigrate them in every imaginative way possible, one would have to conclude that you either have a mental problem or there was something about those people's belief that caused you great consternation. If you didn't believe there was anything to it, why would it bother you?

The God-haters firmly believe those who worship God gain some sort of benefit from it, and they detest this.

The OP has consistently FAILED to prove any of the following;

1. There are "god haters".

2. That "god haters" have any of the "beliefs" that he alleges they have.

3. That "god haters" "detest" whatever "benefit" those who worship God might obtain.

All of the above only exists in the OP's fevered imagination. He is utterly obsessed with these mythical "god haters" and goes around accusing people of being "god haters" much like the witch-finders of yore. Next thing he will be insisting upon using a ducking stool on innocent people to "prove" that they are "god haters" If they drown they are innocent and if they don't that means they must be "god haters".

God haters and anti-Christian bigots post on here every day.

Every. Single. Day.

And they claim they are atheists.

Hardly. If you get some kind of inner peace from believing you are communing with the Almighty and it relieves some of your stress or angst or whatever and you end up as a happier, better person for it, then by all means get whatever comfort you can from your god(s) and holy book(s). I'll never stop you. But I don't believe what benefit you get is from on high.

Not only will I never stop you from believing in the tenents of your religion and your ability to practice it, I regularly fight on your side when it comes to restrictions on the First Amendment. Everyone should have the right to believe what they want and practice their own religion (provided no one else is harmed in the process and it doesn't require government intervention).

I don't even claim to be an atheist so much as I'm an agnostic. I can't say for certain there is a God, there is no God, there are or aren't multiple gods, Nature spirits, the Force, whatever. I have no data either way. If I had to pick one based on what I know, I'd have to choose the Deist conceptualization of God who put the universe in motion and then promptly did nothing with it. But based on what I do know about science and history and archaeology I don't believe Jehovah is any more real than Zeus, Ganesh, Ra or a thousand other gods people have come up with over time.

I don't hate religion or people who derive some benefit from it. I just don't understand how some adults still believe in fairy tales.

 

[koshergrl]

Then I wasn't talking about you, was I?

But there are posters who troll these forums and their sole purpose is to claim they are atheists out of one side of their mouths, while spouting vile garbage ABOUT GOD out of the other side of their mouths, while simultaneously attacking Christians and their right to worship as they please.

So explain to me...why would a so-called "atheist" feel compelled to call out a God they don't believe in, call a God they don't believe in various names, and make ridiculous statements like "If there is a God, he's an asshole because..." fill in the blank.

They can't seem to make up their minds....except on one thing. If there's a God, and they appear to be ambiguous in their belief that there isn't...then he's an asshole, and the people who believe in Him should be ostracized, ridiculed, imprisoned, or worse. They claim they're atheists...but they also profess their hatred of God (in the event that he might exist).

Either way. Charming people. Obviously superior to Christians in every way.