Why do the people who voted for Hillary want to pay more taxes?

[bripat9643]

I don't mean to be rude or unkind, but us "liberals" have different people bringing a multitude of problems to the table. Unlike "conservatives" that ban together and cause a problem. Don't lump me in with the non-christians, they bring their particular problems about religion to the table. There are other groups of people that vote "left", doesn't mean I identify with them. So to alleviate this problem you should ask are you a christian before you accuse them of not being.

What you "liberals" have are constinuencies with their hands out. What problem do conservatives cause?

 

[bripat9643]

Seriously, this is illogical and ignorant. So why do you want to keep less of your money and give more away to the government?

Be specific please

Sure I'll be specific. What is ignorant about thinking of taxes as a way to fund a standard of living? You don't '' give'' the government money. The government gets taxes which it uses to fund stuff like infrastructure, the military, education, pensions, etc. The reason we allow this is that the governments is better at certain types of stuff. I'm Belgian, my wife is American. We live in Europe, the reason being that our kid has more opportunities here. I'm willing to compare my quality of life against most Americans. A big part of that quality of life is funded by taxes that would make you blanch.

Taxes are money the government takes from you by force, and they don't fund any kind of "better lifestyle." They mostly go to fund parasites.

You want to compare quality of life? What's the average size of a home in Belgium? What's the price of gas there? What do you pay for electricity? How much does it cost to get on a golf course?

On the first question. I don't know but I'm very sure they are smaller on average than the US due to our population density. On the other hand since your graph didn't show it our home ownership rate is 71.3 compared to the 64.5 in the US.List of countries by home ownership rate - Wikipedia
Second question. Gas is more expensive, on the other hand the need for gas is less, since we are more condensed we use our bike more, this coupled with an extensive public transportation system makes getting around,easy and economical if you choose to be concious of the alternatives. Third question, I pay 0.05 cent more per kwh. Electricity prices around the world 2017 | Statista
more expensive but marginally so. Fourth I don't have the foggiest, golf isn't all that popular here. I know of 2 golf courses within half an hour driving time. On the other hand I've been able to play competitive soccer for near my entire life. Atm I'm playing in a Sunday league, my oldest team mate is 47. Most Americans aren't provided the chance to play competitive league sports after college if I'm not mistaking.
I have questions of my own. What percentage of people have health insurance? What's your average lifespan? How many people attend college and what is it's average price? How many days leave do you get if you get pregnant? Is that leave payed? What are the services provided for people who get sick or disabled and what is the cost of those services? What is the price of internet service etc? The examples you gave lead me to believe you did at least some research, on the other hand as I said I have actual first hand knowledge of both countries and that knowledge led me and my wife to choose to live in Belgium, this should tell you something about how the quality of live compares.

Your chart shows that Germany pays only 50% more than the USA for power, but the following chart shows that it pays three times more:

I don't think your chart is accurate.

So let's get this straight, you doubt the accuracy of my charts, because your chart that is of 2011, gives different information then my stats which are from 2018? Leaving aside the fact that I live in Belgium not in Germany. How much sense does that make? Oh and BTW if the best you can do is trying to discredit my information, but you refuse to answer even one of my questions, after I answered every single one of yours, this doesn't bode well for the strength of your argument.

The IEA is the source of my chart. That's the U.N. Energy organization, by the way. "Statista" is the source of your chart. What the fuck is that? I've never heard of it.

 

[bripat9643]

Your chart shows that Germany pays only 50% more than the USA for power, but the following chart shows that it pays three times more:

I don't think your chart is accurate.

European countries don't have our amazing natural resources but do just great until the GOP Rex the world economy again super dupe. Their houses are smaller but last forever lol. Americans are famous for being obsessed with bigness...

In other words, we live better than they do. We have bigger houses, more and bigger cars, much cheaper gas, much cheaper electricity. Almost every U.S. home has a dishwasher. I've seen on those HGTV shows that many European houses do not have a dishwasher. They do not have an American sized refrigerator. They do not have American sized ranges or ovens. They have tiny bathrooms. About 30 years ago I had a friend who was visiting from Germany. He loved America because he could play tennis for free at his condo recreation center. In Germany it would typically cost you $50 to get on a tennis court, and that was 30 years ago. Now it's probably more like $100.

That's wha socialism gets you, a meager lifestyle.

You are right we have smaller houses and slightly smaller cars and most importantly no big refrigerator. We have only those unimportant things as universal Healthcare, the ability to send our kids to college without going in debt. Way less debt in general since we typically don't have credit cards to pay off other credit cards. The ability to keep doing organized sports into our adult life. Doctors, physical therapists and nurses coming to our house if we aren't mobile, something that helps make us live years longer on average, etc. That's what Socialism gets you.

Plus 4- 6 week vacations, good infrastructure daycare paid parental leave. The GOP has screwed Americans.

There's more but what's the point, bripat is interested in his prejudices being confirmed, not actual information

Your "information" is actually just propaganda. You're trying to make paying $10/gal for gas sound like a good thing. Driving a car is much preferable to mass transit. The latter is the transit that gets you from where you aren't to where you don't want to be. Yeah, everyone wants to live in a smaller house without modern appliances

Somehow playing soccer is supposed to be some big luxury. We have a thing here called intramural sports. Anyone who wants to can participate for very little money. The reason no one wants to play golf in Europe is the fact that it costs $200 for a round. Here you can get on a course for under $25.

 

[forkup]

European countries don't have our amazing natural resources but do just great until the GOP Rex the world economy again super dupe. Their houses are smaller but last forever lol. Americans are famous for being obsessed with bigness...

In other words, we live better than they do. We have bigger houses, more and bigger cars, much cheaper gas, much cheaper electricity. Almost every U.S. home has a dishwasher. I've seen on those HGTV shows that many European houses do not have a dishwasher. They do not have an American sized refrigerator. They do not have American sized ranges or ovens. They have tiny bathrooms. About 30 years ago I had a friend who was visiting from Germany. He loved America because he could play tennis for free at his condo recreation center. In Germany it would typically cost you $50 to get on a tennis court, and that was 30 years ago. Now it's probably more like $100.

That's wha socialism gets you, a meager lifestyle.

You are right we have smaller houses and slightly smaller cars and most importantly no big refrigerator. We have only those unimportant things as universal Healthcare, the ability to send our kids to college without going in debt. Way less debt in general since we typically don't have credit cards to pay off other credit cards. The ability to keep doing organized sports into our adult life. Doctors, physical therapists and nurses coming to our house if we aren't mobile, something that helps make us live years longer on average, etc. That's what Socialism gets you.

Plus 4- 6 week vacations, good infrastructure daycare paid parental leave. The GOP has screwed Americans.

There's more but what's the point, bripat is interested in his prejudices being confirmed, not actual information

Your "information" is actually just propaganda. You're trying to make paying $10/gal for gas sound like a good thing. Driving a car is much preferable to mass transit. The latter is the transit that gets you from where you aren't to where you don't want to be. Yeah, everyone wants to live in a smaller house without modern appliances

Somehow playing soccer is supposed to be some big luxury. We have a thing here called intramural sports. Anyone who wants to can participate for very little money. The reason no one wants to play golf in Europe is the fact that it costs $200 for a round. Here you can get on a course for under $25.

I pay a bit less than 5 dollars a gallon. How in the hell did you get the idea I live in a house that has no modern appliances. In fact I just bought an LG oled TV last week. I use a car myself, an SUV btw. If you use golf as a way to establish a higher quality of live, why can't I use my own sport of preference. And if you call my information propaganda you are of course capable of providing me with a list of the errors? As to my link, it's number 5 when you Google average electricity prize by country. It's the link I used because it was the first which had current statistical data and had Belgium included. Give me data that disputes the numbers and you might have a point. Until you do the fact that your outdated chart didn't have the same numbers as mine proves nothing

 

[ThisIsMe]

I never said I had all the answers, I'm not ashamed to admit, my argument may be flawed, but, one thing is for certain, there is an inequality happening between the rights of believers and the rights of non believers.

Admitting you don't have the answer is a start, but there is no way you can justify concessions for your religion that aren't offered for others. I know that is disappointing for you.

Not at all, and it's not "my" religion were talking about. It's all religion. I believe that the Muslim butcher should be allowed to refuse to process pork products, just like a baker should be allowed to refuse to bake cakes for a gay wedding, because both go against their religious beliefs.

Are you trying to justify your desire for extra rights, or just trying to trash another religion? Justify your demands, and then we will discuss others demands.

No, I'm trying to justify that the rights of one group are equal to the rights of another group. If you show up at a shop and request a service, and that shop owner says they can't do that based on religious beliefs, then you must respect that, and move along to another shop that will fulfill your request, rather than taking them to court to try and force them to do it.

Some so called Christians believe in racial purity. SHould they be allowed to refuse Blacks? Ancient Jewish religion didn't allow anyone with a disability into the Temple. Should someone practicing that form of the religion be allowed to kick out all the handicapped? Any rules have to apply to everyone. Where do you draw the line? That's why we, as a country aren't allowed to give special allowances to any specific religion. Which religion gets told Your religion isn't as worthy of special allowances?

I dont know of any Christian religion that advocates racial purity, unless you are referring to Nazi positive Christianity, which was isn't a religion at all, that was made up by Hitler and the Nazi party.

As far as Jewish religions that discriminate against handicapped, again, I'm not sure what those are because the old testament (torah) advocates helping the handicapped, unless you are referring to a religion that pre dates the Torah, in which case, I have no idea.

 

[ThisIsMe]

It's not my wants, it's equality of the law. You can't say it's wrong for a Christian baker to refuse to bake a cake for a gay wedding, but then say it's ok for a Muslim butcher to refuse to process hogs for someone. It has to be one way or the other, it can't be both.

Quit whining. It's making you look pathetic.

Lol, that's good. I'm trying to have a civil debate, and you go for the insult. That is fine, whatever floats your boat. I thought we were having a discussion here, I realize now that i was wrong.

Did you have something else to offer in your effort to explain why your religion should be given special dispensation from our laws?

What special dispensation do you think im asking for? Im not asking that religious people have special consideration, I'm asking that religious people get the same consideration as those who don't believe.

I'm not aware of any atheist baker whining about having to serve ALL the public equally.

The fact that they don't means they are fine with serving whomever, but that is because they don't have any religious convictions to go by.

I promise, I'm not trying to be a religious zealot here, I'm trying to show that, under the current system, people with religious beliefs really have no rights, because the courts have been taking them away. In your example of the public accommodation laws, that is an example of a law restricting the rights of those who own Christian businesses being force to male concessions against the first amendment, which states that Congress shall make no law preventing the free exercise of religion.

 

[rightwinger]

So have kids, buy a home and live the American dream, don't smoke and drink and get married

Why should I have to?
You do realize that by not having kids that I use less government services don't you?

Your choice

The services are still available

ROFL! I pay for them whether I use them or not. That's the leftwing conception of a "free choice."

That is the way society works
As a whole you make out better than you would by yourself

By who's accounting? Who decides what is "better" for you?

By any accounting you are better off as part of a society than as an individual.
Save your taxes and try surviving without roads, bridges, clean water, police and military protection, free education, safe food and drugs

 

[BULLDOG]

Quit whining. It's making you look pathetic.

Lol, that's good. I'm trying to have a civil debate, and you go for the insult. That is fine, whatever floats your boat. I thought we were having a discussion here, I realize now that i was wrong.

Did you have something else to offer in your effort to explain why your religion should be given special dispensation from our laws?

What special dispensation do you think im asking for? Im not asking that religious people have special consideration, I'm asking that religious people get the same consideration as those who don't believe.

I'm not aware of any atheist baker whining about having to serve ALL the public equally.

The fact that they don't means they are fine with serving whomever, but that is because they don't have any religious convictions to go by.

I promise, I'm not trying to be a religious zealot here, I'm trying to show that, under the current system, people with religious beliefs really have no rights, because the courts have been taking them away. In your example of the public accommodation laws, that is an example of a law restricting the rights of those who own Christian businesses being force to male concessions against the first amendment, which states that Congress shall make no law preventing the free exercise of religion.

I realize you are trying really hard to show that, but it's just not so. I'm sure the loss of advantages that religous people are used to is quite disappointing, but you still have the same rights that everybody else has. You are free to exercize your religion all you want. You just aren't allowed to put YOUR religious symbols all over OUR public property. YOUR religion doesn't override OUR public accomodation laws. MY right to be treated fairly by a business serving the public shouldn't be limited because YOUR religion doesnt want to treat everybody fairly.

 

[forkup]

Quit whining. It's making you look pathetic.

Lol, that's good. I'm trying to have a civil debate, and you go for the insult. That is fine, whatever floats your boat. I thought we were having a discussion here, I realize now that i was wrong.

Did you have something else to offer in your effort to explain why your religion should be given special dispensation from our laws?

What special dispensation do you think im asking for? Im not asking that religious people have special consideration, I'm asking that religious people get the same consideration as those who don't believe.

I'm not aware of any atheist baker whining about having to serve ALL the public equally.

The fact that they don't means they are fine with serving whomever, but that is because they don't have any religious convictions to go by.

I promise, I'm not trying to be a religious zealot here, I'm trying to show that, under the current system, people with religious beliefs really have no rights, because the courts have been taking them away. In your example of the public accommodation laws, that is an example of a law restricting the rights of those who own Christian businesses being force to male concessions against the first amendment, which states that Congress shall make no law preventing the free exercise of religion.

If you refuse services on the bases of religion, sex, sexual orientation, or race you aren't exercising freedom of speech or religion but you are going against the Civil rights act. By the way in what way does providing service to someone goes against religious beliefs?

 

[BULLDOG]

Quit whining. It's making you look pathetic.

Lol, that's good. I'm trying to have a civil debate, and you go for the insult. That is fine, whatever floats your boat. I thought we were having a discussion here, I realize now that i was wrong.

Did you have something else to offer in your effort to explain why your religion should be given special dispensation from our laws?

What special dispensation do you think im asking for? Im not asking that religious people have special consideration, I'm asking that religious people get the same consideration as those who don't believe.

I'm not aware of any atheist baker whining about having to serve ALL the public equally.

The fact that they don't means they are fine with serving whomever, but that is because they don't have any religious convictions to go by.

I promise, I'm not trying to be a religious zealot here, I'm trying to show that, under the current system, people with religious beliefs really have no rights, because the courts have been taking them away. In your example of the public accommodation laws, that is an example of a law restricting the rights of those who own Christian businesses being force to male concessions against the first amendment, which states that Congress shall make no law preventing the free exercise of religion.

Your implication that lack of belief in any religious doctrine is grounds for you forcing your belief on them is nuts. There is no reason why a person has to adhere to a religion.

 

[ThisIsMe]

Lol, that's good. I'm trying to have a civil debate, and you go for the insult. That is fine, whatever floats your boat. I thought we were having a discussion here, I realize now that i was wrong.

Did you have something else to offer in your effort to explain why your religion should be given special dispensation from our laws?

What special dispensation do you think im asking for? Im not asking that religious people have special consideration, I'm asking that religious people get the same consideration as those who don't believe.

I'm not aware of any atheist baker whining about having to serve ALL the public equally.

The fact that they don't means they are fine with serving whomever, but that is because they don't have any religious convictions to go by.

I promise, I'm not trying to be a religious zealot here, I'm trying to show that, under the current system, people with religious beliefs really have no rights, because the courts have been taking them away. In your example of the public accommodation laws, that is an example of a law restricting the rights of those who own Christian businesses being force to male concessions against the first amendment, which states that Congress shall make no law preventing the free exercise of religion.

I realize you are trying really hard to show that, but it's just not so. I'm sure the loss of advantages that religous people are used to is quite disappointing, but you still have the same rights that everybody else has. You are free to exercize your religion all you want. You just aren't allowed to put YOUR religious symbols all over OUR public property. YOUR religion doesn't override OUR public accomodation laws. MY right to be treated fairly by a business serving the public shouldn't be limited because YOUR religion doesnt want to treat everybody fairly.

So, in your opinion, your right to public accommodation overrides a business owners right to refuse service based on religious beliefs? Then by that inference, you agree that a Muslim butcher cannot refuse to process pork products or shellfish. Also, businesses cannot refuse service to someone open carrying a gun if the state laws allow open carry.

 

[ThisIsMe]

Lol, that's good. I'm trying to have a civil debate, and you go for the insult. That is fine, whatever floats your boat. I thought we were having a discussion here, I realize now that i was wrong.

Did you have something else to offer in your effort to explain why your religion should be given special dispensation from our laws?

What special dispensation do you think im asking for? Im not asking that religious people have special consideration, I'm asking that religious people get the same consideration as those who don't believe.

I'm not aware of any atheist baker whining about having to serve ALL the public equally.

The fact that they don't means they are fine with serving whomever, but that is because they don't have any religious convictions to go by.

I promise, I'm not trying to be a religious zealot here, I'm trying to show that, under the current system, people with religious beliefs really have no rights, because the courts have been taking them away. In your example of the public accommodation laws, that is an example of a law restricting the rights of those who own Christian businesses being force to male concessions against the first amendment, which states that Congress shall make no law preventing the free exercise of religion.

If you refuse services on the bases of religion, sex, sexual orientation, or race you aren't exercising freedom of speech or religion but you are going against the Civil rights act. By the way in what way does providing service to someone goes against religious beliefs?

Just because someone refuses service based on one of those criteria doesn't mean it's a civil rights violation, if it's not based on a racial or physiological characteristic. If it is because your religion says you shouldn't participate, then it's a religious belief.

In the case of the bakers, they were not refusing service. They would have sold them any cake in the store already prepared, they just didn't want participate in the ceremony by making a special cake for it.

 

[ThisIsMe]

Lol, that's good. I'm trying to have a civil debate, and you go for the insult. That is fine, whatever floats your boat. I thought we were having a discussion here, I realize now that i was wrong.

Did you have something else to offer in your effort to explain why your religion should be given special dispensation from our laws?

What special dispensation do you think im asking for? Im not asking that religious people have special consideration, I'm asking that religious people get the same consideration as those who don't believe.

I'm not aware of any atheist baker whining about having to serve ALL the public equally.

The fact that they don't means they are fine with serving whomever, but that is because they don't have any religious convictions to go by.

I promise, I'm not trying to be a religious zealot here, I'm trying to show that, under the current system, people with religious beliefs really have no rights, because the courts have been taking them away. In your example of the public accommodation laws, that is an example of a law restricting the rights of those who own Christian businesses being force to male concessions against the first amendment, which states that Congress shall make no law preventing the free exercise of religion.

Your implication that lack of belief in any religious doctrine is grounds for you forcing your belief on them is nuts. There is no reason why a person has to adhere to a religion.

I'm not trying to force a religion on anybody, I'm saying you shouldn't be allowed to force your atheism on believers.

 

[BULLDOG]

Did you have something else to offer in your effort to explain why your religion should be given special dispensation from our laws?

What special dispensation do you think im asking for? Im not asking that religious people have special consideration, I'm asking that religious people get the same consideration as those who don't believe.

I'm not aware of any atheist baker whining about having to serve ALL the public equally.

The fact that they don't means they are fine with serving whomever, but that is because they don't have any religious convictions to go by.

I promise, I'm not trying to be a religious zealot here, I'm trying to show that, under the current system, people with religious beliefs really have no rights, because the courts have been taking them away. In your example of the public accommodation laws, that is an example of a law restricting the rights of those who own Christian businesses being force to male concessions against the first amendment, which states that Congress shall make no law preventing the free exercise of religion.

If you refuse services on the bases of religion, sex, sexual orientation, or race you aren't exercising freedom of speech or religion but you are going against the Civil rights act. By the way in what way does providing service to someone goes against religious beliefs?

Just because someone refuses service based on one of those criteria doesn't mean it's a civil rights violation, if it's not based on a racial or physiological characteristic. If it is because your religion says you shouldn't participate, then it's a religious belief.

In the case of the bakers, they were not refusing service. They would have sold them any cake in the store already prepared, they just didn't want participate in the ceremony by making a special cake for it.

That is the main way you can tell the baker was trying desperately to excuse their misbehavior. Baking a cake is in no way participating in the ceremony any more than the electric company supplying electricity is participating in the ceremony.

 

[BULLDOG]

Did you have something else to offer in your effort to explain why your religion should be given special dispensation from our laws?

What special dispensation do you think im asking for? Im not asking that religious people have special consideration, I'm asking that religious people get the same consideration as those who don't believe.

I'm not aware of any atheist baker whining about having to serve ALL the public equally.

The fact that they don't means they are fine with serving whomever, but that is because they don't have any religious convictions to go by.

I promise, I'm not trying to be a religious zealot here, I'm trying to show that, under the current system, people with religious beliefs really have no rights, because the courts have been taking them away. In your example of the public accommodation laws, that is an example of a law restricting the rights of those who own Christian businesses being force to male concessions against the first amendment, which states that Congress shall make no law preventing the free exercise of religion.

Your implication that lack of belief in any religious doctrine is grounds for you forcing your belief on them is nuts. There is no reason why a person has to adhere to a religion.

I'm not trying to force a religion on anybody, I'm saying you shouldn't be allowed to force your atheism on believers.

How does performing the service you are in business to perform have anything to do with anything?

 

[ThisIsMe]

What special dispensation do you think im asking for? Im not asking that religious people have special consideration, I'm asking that religious people get the same consideration as those who don't believe.

I'm not aware of any atheist baker whining about having to serve ALL the public equally.

The fact that they don't means they are fine with serving whomever, but that is because they don't have any religious convictions to go by.

I promise, I'm not trying to be a religious zealot here, I'm trying to show that, under the current system, people with religious beliefs really have no rights, because the courts have been taking them away. In your example of the public accommodation laws, that is an example of a law restricting the rights of those who own Christian businesses being force to male concessions against the first amendment, which states that Congress shall make no law preventing the free exercise of religion.

Your implication that lack of belief in any religious doctrine is grounds for you forcing your belief on them is nuts. There is no reason why a person has to adhere to a religion.

I'm not trying to force a religion on anybody, I'm saying you shouldn't be allowed to force your atheism on believers.

How does performing the service you are in business to perform have anything to do with anything?

If you create anything for specific cause, then you are working on behalf of that cause, which means you are participating.

 

[Dragonlady]

Conservatives are so stupid that when a conservative politician says that liberals want 'bigger government', they believe them.

Nope, liberals don't particularly want 'bigger government'.

But one thing is for sure, 'tax and spend' is a whole lot smarter than 'not tax and spend'.

If they don't want bigger government, then why do they always call for spending increases?

Only on the rich, dupe, because they are getting away with murder and the middle class and the country are going to hell. Great job scumbag GOP and silly dupes like you.

I said the are calling for bigger spending. I didn't say anything about taxes, moron.

Can't resist the insult can we.
I'm still waiting for your PhD.
I keep asking, just get. Moron!!!
Our baby boy obviously isn't a millionaire.
My dad (and I) are
Dad "I love paying more taxes this year, means I screwed the uneducated out of more than last year."
The rich don't mind paying, don't miss it.
On the other hand the Vegas friend of. Don got a $600000000 tax refund

1. Your writing sucks.
2. Use commas.
3. Who was it that got a $600 mil tax refund? Gonna need a link to that one.

How could anyone get a tax refund this year when Trump’s tax cuts didn’t take effect until the 2018 tax year?

 

[BULLDOG]

I'm not aware of any atheist baker whining about having to serve ALL the public equally.

The fact that they don't means they are fine with serving whomever, but that is because they don't have any religious convictions to go by.

I promise, I'm not trying to be a religious zealot here, I'm trying to show that, under the current system, people with religious beliefs really have no rights, because the courts have been taking them away. In your example of the public accommodation laws, that is an example of a law restricting the rights of those who own Christian businesses being force to male concessions against the first amendment, which states that Congress shall make no law preventing the free exercise of religion.

Your implication that lack of belief in any religious doctrine is grounds for you forcing your belief on them is nuts. There is no reason why a person has to adhere to a religion.

I'm not trying to force a religion on anybody, I'm saying you shouldn't be allowed to force your atheism on believers.

How does performing the service you are in business to perform have anything to do with anything?

If you create anything for specific cause, then you are working on behalf of that cause, which means you are participating.

Right. The electric company was part of the wedding party, along with the people who sold them the ice for the punch.

 

[rightwinger]

Yeah, you just keep moving those goalposts, mm-kay?

I just woke up..i wasn't moving the goal posts I asked the full question on here like 30 times.

You haven't woken up. You're still sound asleep.

Trump is burying our children under more and more debt. He gave handout to special interests which saddled our children with another $1.5 trillion of debt, and the tards were dancing in the streets.

Trump has made you all in Keynesians and you didn't even notice.

Wakey wakey!

And Obama spent almost a trillion dollars and the UE went up...

Wow. That's some delusion you have there.

Once again can't you read a graph ? UE went up after Obama signed the stimulus.

Actually it decreased almost immediately.
The stock market also reversed its decline

 

[edward37]

Seriously, this is illogical and ignorant.

Illogical and ignorant is running trillon dollar deficits in good times and voting for lying assholes like this:

Coulda been worse. Coulda been hildaskank.

No one lies worse than Trump and Clinton would be way more fiscally restrained. Trump stright up doesn't give a shit about deficits (except of course to bullshit you during campaign about how he will EASILY balance the budget)

Clinton wouldn't be blowing up trade wars either.

And wouldn't be giving pardons to repub scumbags