Why do the right struggle with the concept of hate crime ?

[meaner gene]

Inanity and Insanity - both often "complex."

Could it be a hate scenario that you chose to talk about a white guy shooting a black guy, when you could just as easily spoke about a black guy shooting white guy ? If you can get off your high horse long enough, you might try thinking about that.

Under the foreign terrorist statutes, that's an enhancement akin to a "hate crime". It's all about the motivation behind the crime.

 

[meaner gene]

A hate crime only gives another category of "premeditation"

wrong again,,
it gives another motive,,,

Strangely that motive is premeditation that the person could have held for a lifetime, and not just for the days or weeks before the commission of the crime.

I would think a lifetime of premeditation would be a greater enhancement, as we do the opposite when the crime is one of spontaneous actions.

 

[meaner gene]

As you pointed out. There are places where hate crimes don't produce murder convictions.

Where are those places? Is double jeopardy okay?

Actually it's separate jeopardy. The USSC explained that under "separate sovereigns"

 

[laferia52]

What is hate crime?

Find out how to identify the different types of hate crime and what you can do if you're a victim of hate crime.

www.met.police.uk

This is the argument -

If you are murdered then you are dead. The motivation is immaterial.

Which on the face of it is true. But incredibly simplistic and reflecting of a very limited view of the world.

Lets look at two murders and explain why it matters.

Murder 1 - Fred and Jim fall out over a business deal or a girl or a parking spot. Fred exercises his 2nd amendment right and blows Jims head off.

Murder 2 - Jim, a black guy, is walking through a "white" neighbourhood and is spotted by Fred. Fred is immediately alarmed and exercises his 2nd amendment right and blows Jims head off. Jim isnt doing anything, he is just the wrong person in the wrong place.

Which is the worse murder ?

Of course the 2nd one is the worst due to the randomness of the act. Murder 1 happened as a result of a specific set of circumstances that would be difficult to replicate. Murder 2 could happen at any time just because Fred hates black folks.

Im not sure if I can make it any simpler for you straw sucking shit kickers.

when a black guy attacks a police officer with a knife or hand gun and the officer drops him with his service weapon . is that racism?

 

[Tommy Tainant]

What is hate crime?

Find out how to identify the different types of hate crime and what you can do if you're a victim of hate crime.

www.met.police.uk

This is the argument -

If you are murdered then you are dead. The motivation is immaterial.

Which on the face of it is true. But incredibly simplistic and reflecting of a very limited view of the world.

Lets look at two murders and explain why it matters.

Murder 1 - Fred and Jim fall out over a business deal or a girl or a parking spot. Fred exercises his 2nd amendment right and blows Jims head off.

Murder 2 - Jim, a black guy, is walking through a "white" neighbourhood and is spotted by Fred. Fred is immediately alarmed and exercises his 2nd amendment right and blows Jims head off. Jim isnt doing anything, he is just the wrong person in the wrong place.

Which is the worse murder ?

Of course the 2nd one is the worst due to the randomness of the act. Murder 1 happened as a result of a specific set of circumstances that would be difficult to replicate. Murder 2 could happen at any time just because Fred hates black folks.

Im not sure if I can make it any simpler for you straw sucking shit kickers.

Is Jim a black guy in Murder 1?

He might be. It doesnt really matter in this instance. Fred might be a black man in Murder 1,again it doesnt really matter in this instance.

Sure it does if Jim's a black guy the murder could be charged as a hate crime.

Nope, not at all.
Why is it a hate crime ? They fell out over an issue not over skin colour. You misunderstand the basic nature of a hate crime.

I fully understand the nature of a hate crime. If Fred at anytime during his falling out with black Jim called him a racist slur or something someone else could view as racist, the murder could be charged as a hate crime. The problem with hate crime laws is they often require other to determine intent and they award unequal justice. In our example if murdered Jim is black Fred could face a harsher sentence. Fred should receive the same sentence for murder regardless of Jim's assigned at birth race.

Every crime requires a third party to establish intent. I suspect it would be difficult to prove in all but the most obvious cases.
But somebody guilty of a hate crime is a greater threat to society than a standard criminal and that should be reflected in any possible parole.

 

[progressive hunter]

A hate crime only gives another category of "premeditation"

wrong again,,
it gives another motive,,,

Strangely that motive is premeditation that the person could have held for a lifetime, and not just for the days or weeks before the commission of the crime.

I would think a lifetime of premeditation would be a greater enhancement, as we do the opposite when the crime is one of spontaneous actions.

not if they dont act on it,,,

premed. is planning it,, motive is why,,

 

[meaner gene]

The problem with hate crime laws is they often require other to determine intent and they award unequal justice. In our example if murdered Jim is black Fred could face a harsher sentence. Fred should receive the same sentence for murder regardless of Jim's assigned at birth race.

The 1st amendment prevents us from taking action against somebody who ferments hate. Why let him off the hook after he kills somebody. His hate has made it a crime he's been premeditating for as long as he's had those beliefs.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

I obviously made it too complex for you.

Inanity and Insanity - both often "complex."

Could it be a hate scenario that you chose to talk about a white guy shooting a black guy, when you could just as easily spoke about a black guy shooting white guy ? If you can get off your high horse long enough, you might try thinking about that.

In fact the black on white USA murders would be the more relevant topic.
Here's why >

According to the most recent report of this kind ( the FBI’s Expanded Homicide data from 2018)

1. 8% of the reported murders of Black people were committed by white offenders (234).

2. 15.5% of the murders of white people were committed by Black offenders (514).

Note that blacks are only 13% of the US population, yet they kill twice as many whites, as the reverse.

You are very welcome to switch the races. The principle is the same. The stats that you quote are pretty redundant as you do not stat why these people were murdered. That would determine if they were hate crimes.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

"Perceived"? No one should be able to take this seriously.

No different than when a christian was killed because they looked jewish.

Or a SIkh for looking like a Muslim.

 

[there4eyeM]

I obviously made it too complex for you.

Inanity and Insanity - both often "complex."

Could it be a hate scenario that you chose to talk about a white guy shooting a black guy, when you could just as easily spoke about a black guy shooting white guy ? If you can get off your high horse long enough, you might try thinking about that.

In fact the black on white USA murders would be the more relevant topic.
Here's why >

According to the most recent report of this kind ( the FBI’s Expanded Homicide data from 2018)

1. 8% of the reported murders of Black people were committed by white offenders (234).

2. 15.5% of the murders of white people were committed by Black offenders (514).

Note that blacks are only 13% of the US population, yet they kill twice as many whites, as the reverse.

You are very welcome to switch the races. The principle is the same. The stats that you quote are pretty redundant as you do not stat why these people were murdered. That would determine if they were hate crimes.

No, apparently it suffices for anyone's perceptions to be that a hate crime is one.

 

[meaner gene]

when a black guy attacks a police officer with a knife or hand gun and the officer drops him with his service weapon . is that racism?

It depends on the circumstances. Such as we've seen where a black guy was 20-30 feet away from the officer with a knife, or a pipe or other close distance weapon. And the officer chose to use deadly force far before it was warranted.

 

[BrokeLoser]

What is hate crime?

Find out how to identify the different types of hate crime and what you can do if you're a victim of hate crime.

www.met.police.uk

This is the argument -

If you are murdered then you are dead. The motivation is immaterial.

Which on the face of it is true. But incredibly simplistic and reflecting of a very limited view of the world.

Lets look at two murders and explain why it matters.

Murder 1 - Fred and Jim fall out over a business deal or a girl or a parking spot. Fred exercises his 2nd amendment right and blows Jims head off.

Murder 2 - Jim, a black guy, is walking through a "white" neighbourhood and is spotted by Fred. Fred is immediately alarmed and exercises his 2nd amendment right and blows Jims head off. Jim isnt doing anything, he is just the wrong person in the wrong place.

Which is the worse murder ?

Of course the 2nd one is the worst due to the randomness of the act. Murder 1 happened as a result of a specific set of circumstances that would be difficult to replicate. Murder 2 could happen at any time just because Fred hates black folks.

Im not sure if I can make it any simpler for you straw sucking shit kickers.

Why do the right struggle with the concept of hate crime ?
The better and far more obvious question that should be asked often is:
Why does the Left pretend that crime committed by dark people should be the least of our worry despite the fact that more than 50% of violent crime is committed by the minority / dark people?

“Major Findings
• Police and the justice system are not biased against minorities.
Crime Rates
• Blacks are seven times more likely than people of other races to commit mur- der, and eight times more likely to commit robbery.
• When blacks commit crimes of violence, they are nearly three times more likely than non-blacks to use a gun, and more than twice as likely to use a knife.
• Hispanics commit violent crimes at roughly three times the white rate, and Asians commit violent crimes at about one quarter the white rate.
• The single best indicator of violent crime levels in an area is the percentage of the population that is black and Hispanic.
Interracial Crime
• Of the nearly 770,000 violent interracial crimes committed every year involv- ing blacks and whites, blacks commit 85 percent and whites commit 15 percent.
• Blacks commit more violent crime against whites than against blacks. Forty- five percent of their victims are white, 43 percent are black, and 10 percent are Hispanic. When whites commit violent crime, only three percent of their victims are black.
• Blacks are an estimated 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against a white than vice versa, and 136 times more likely to commit robbery.
• Blacks are 2.25 times more likely to commit officially-designated hate crimes against whites than vice versa.
Gangs
• Only 10 percent of youth gang members are white.
• Hispanics are 19 times more likely than whites to be members of youth gangs. Blacks are 15 times more likely, and Asians are nine times more likely.
Incarceration
• Between 1980 and 2003 the US incarceration rate more than tripled, from 139 to 482 per 100,000, and the number of prisoners increased from 320,000 to 1.39 million.
• Blacks are seven times more likely to be in prison than whites. Hispanics are three times more likely.
likely.
• If New York City were all white, the murder rate would drop by 91 percent, the robbery rate by 81 percent, and the shootings rate by 97 percent.
• In an all-white Chicago, murder would decline 90 percent, rape by 81 percent, and robbery by 90 percent.”

http://2kpcwh2r7phz1nq4jj237m22.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/2005-Color-of-Crime-Report.pdf

 

[meaner gene]

I would think a lifetime of premeditation would be a greater enhancement, as we do the opposite when the crime is one of spontaneous actions.

not if they dont act on it,,,

premed. is planning it,, motive is why,,

And hate is more than just motive. The person has been thinking about the crime for a lifetime. A predisposition.

Which is an enhancement, since it precludes rehabilitation.

 

[progressive hunter]

The problem with hate crime laws is they often require other to determine intent and they award unequal justice. In our example if murdered Jim is black Fred could face a harsher sentence. Fred should receive the same sentence for murder regardless of Jim's assigned at birth race.

The 1st amendment prevents us from taking action against somebody who ferments hate. Why let him off the hook after he kills somebody. His hate has made it a crime he's been premeditating for as long as he's had those beliefs.

how does it do that??

 

[progressive hunter]

I would think a lifetime of premeditation would be a greater enhancement, as we do the opposite when the crime is one of spontaneous actions.

not if they dont act on it,,,

premed. is planning it,, motive is why,,

And hate is more than just motive. The person has been thinking about the crime for a lifetime. A predisposition.

Which is an enhancement, since it precludes rehabilitation.

are you saying to hate something or someone is a crime???

 

[Tommy Tainant]

I obviously made it too complex for you.

Inanity and Insanity - both often "complex."

Could it be a hate scenario that you chose to talk about a white guy shooting a black guy, when you could just as easily spoke about a black guy shooting white guy ? If you can get off your high horse long enough, you might try thinking about that.

In fact the black on white USA murders would be the more relevant topic.
Here's why >

According to the most recent report of this kind ( the FBI’s Expanded Homicide data from 2018)

1. 8% of the reported murders of Black people were committed by white offenders (234).

2. 15.5% of the murders of white people were committed by Black offenders (514).

Note that blacks are only 13% of the US population, yet they kill twice as many whites, as the reverse.

You are very welcome to switch the races. The principle is the same. The stats that you quote are pretty redundant as you do not stat why these people were murdered. That would determine if they were hate crimes.

No, apparently it suffices for anyone's perceptions to be that a hate crime is one.

You still have to prove that.

 

[meaner gene]

Why let him off the hook after he kills somebody. His hate has made it a crime he's been premeditating for as long as he's had those beliefs.

how does it do that??

By taking away the enhancement of "hate crime".

Someone could commit a hate crime, and be charged with a lesser charge.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

What is hate crime?

Find out how to identify the different types of hate crime and what you can do if you're a victim of hate crime.

www.met.police.uk

This is the argument -

If you are murdered then you are dead. The motivation is immaterial.

Which on the face of it is true. But incredibly simplistic and reflecting of a very limited view of the world.

Lets look at two murders and explain why it matters.

Murder 1 - Fred and Jim fall out over a business deal or a girl or a parking spot. Fred exercises his 2nd amendment right and blows Jims head off.

Murder 2 - Jim, a black guy, is walking through a "white" neighbourhood and is spotted by Fred. Fred is immediately alarmed and exercises his 2nd amendment right and blows Jims head off. Jim isnt doing anything, he is just the wrong person in the wrong place.

Which is the worse murder ?

Of course the 2nd one is the worst due to the randomness of the act. Murder 1 happened as a result of a specific set of circumstances that would be difficult to replicate. Murder 2 could happen at any time just because Fred hates black folks.

Im not sure if I can make it any simpler for you straw sucking shit kickers.

Why do the right struggle with the concept of hate crime ?
The better and far more obvious question that should be asked often is:
Why does the Left pretend that crime committed by dark people should be the least of our worry despite the fact that more than 50% of violent crime is committed by the minority / dark people?

“Major Findings
• Police and the justice system are not biased against minorities.
Crime Rates
• Blacks are seven times more likely than people of other races to commit mur- der, and eight times more likely to commit robbery.
• When blacks commit crimes of violence, they are nearly three times more likely than non-blacks to use a gun, and more than twice as likely to use a knife.
• Hispanics commit violent crimes at roughly three times the white rate, and Asians commit violent crimes at about one quarter the white rate.
• The single best indicator of violent crime levels in an area is the percentage of the population that is black and Hispanic.
Interracial Crime
• Of the nearly 770,000 violent interracial crimes committed every year involv- ing blacks and whites, blacks commit 85 percent and whites commit 15 percent.
• Blacks commit more violent crime against whites than against blacks. Forty- five percent of their victims are white, 43 percent are black, and 10 percent are Hispanic. When whites commit violent crime, only three percent of their victims are black.
• Blacks are an estimated 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against a white than vice versa, and 136 times more likely to commit robbery.
• Blacks are 2.25 times more likely to commit officially-designated hate crimes against whites than vice versa.
Gangs
• Only 10 percent of youth gang members are white.
• Hispanics are 19 times more likely than whites to be members of youth gangs. Blacks are 15 times more likely, and Asians are nine times more likely.
Incarceration
• Between 1980 and 2003 the US incarceration rate more than tripled, from 139 to 482 per 100,000, and the number of prisoners increased from 320,000 to 1.39 million.
• Blacks are seven times more likely to be in prison than whites. Hispanics are three times more likely.
likely.
• If New York City were all white, the murder rate would drop by 91 percent, the robbery rate by 81 percent, and the shootings rate by 97 percent.
• In an all-white Chicago, murder would decline 90 percent, rape by 81 percent, and robbery by 90 percent.”

http://2kpcwh2r7phz1nq4jj237m22.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/2005-Color-of-Crime-Report.pdf

You rely on skin colour as your sole indicator. That is pretty laughable.

 

[progressive hunter]

Why let him off the hook after he kills somebody. His hate has made it a crime he's been premeditating for as long as he's had those beliefs.

how does it do that??

By taking away the enhancement of "hate crime".

Someone could commit a hate crime, and be charged with a lesser charge.

hate crime is a made up term to divide the people further than they already are,,,

 

[meaner gene]

are you saying to hate something or someone is a crime???

I'm saying since we can't make it a crime before someone kills someone because of it. We should at least make it an enhancement to add deterrence.