Why does the left continue to HUMILIATE themselves on the WMD issue?

[IlarMeilyr]

I have no quarrel with Dubya BELIEVING that Saddam had stockpiles of WMD's. He is free to BELIEVE whatever the hell he wants to. I DO have a problem with his statements that there was ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY that stockpiles existed. THAT was a LIE... pure and simple.

There WAS NO LINK between Iraq and AQ prior to 9/11. Al Zarqawi may have been in Iraq prior to 9/11, but he was not there with the blessing of Saddam...AND, more importantly, he was not affiliated with OBL at that time in any case. He joined forces with OBL only after the invasion of Iraq. Team Bush LIED about the Prague meeting that supposedly happened prior to 9/11 and they did so to provide the link between Saddam's supposedly absolutely certain stockpiles of WMD's and the implication that he could and would give them to AQ for their use against US. Misleading by lies and fear. Truly despicable.

I don't give a rat's twat what you do or do not have a problem with.

But if you are man enough to concede that President Bush may have believed what he was saying, then even a moron like you should have enough sense not to (in about a half-a-breath) then call him a "liar." For if you say something that is not correct, it is not necessarily a "lie," you dingleberry.

A lie is a false statement made WITH the knowledge that it is untrue.

You babble incessantly, but almost without exception, when your claims get challenged and examined, they fall apart. Kind of continues to establish that you are the liar.

You suck even at internet political message board debate.

by the way, you fucking asshole lying liberal propagandist douchewad, when al Zarqawi went to Iraq, it was with Saddam's knowledge and permission. I defy you to prove your claim that it wasn't.

Now, I have done some additional research but am not yet ready to "go there." So, for now, I'll just recommend that you go jump in a lake.

If Bush had stated that he BELIEVED that Saddam had stockpiles od WMD's, it would not have been a lie. He knew, however, that the intelligence surrounding that issue was laden with caveats and qualifiers... Thus...when he said "There is NO doubt" that Saddam had stockpiles of WMD's, he most certainly knew that there was a degree of doubt. Ergo... It was a lie.

If you've got proof that Al Zarqawi was in Iraq with Saddam's knowledge and permission, please present it. All I have read indicates otherwise. But again, whether Saddam knew about him is less important than the fact at he was NOT affiliated with AQ until AFTER our invasion of Iraq.

My assertion stands unrefuted: there was no relationship between Saddam and OBL prior to 9/11. Telling the American people about a meeting between AQ and Saddam's agents in Prague prior to 9/11 was yet another LIE... And those TWO lies scared America into supporting the war and into letting congress know of their support...based upon two clear LIES from Team Bush.

If YOU have proof of YOUR claim that al Z did not have Saddam's permission, the feel obliged to share it.

AGAIN: if President Bush believed that we did know where the shit was (because he discounted all the obligatory waffling qualifiers), then he did not lie.

Your assertion is fucking irrelevant. Nobody said diddly dick about a relationship between Saddam and Osama bin Laden. What was said was that there had been some relationship between al qaeda and Saddam's Iraq. And that was simply true.

As for the Prague shit, let's just say that you are ever full of shit and leave it at that. Here. Educate your stupid ass dishonest self:

n the same Meet the Press interviews, Cheney implied a connection between Iraq and Mohamed Atta; "The Czech interior minister said today that an Iraqi intelligence officer met with Mohammed Atta, one of the ringleaders of the September 11 terrorists attacks on the United States, just five months before the synchronized hijackings and mass killings were carried out."[14] and "With respect to 9/11, of course, we’ve had the story that’s been public out there. The Czechs alleged that Mohamed Atta, the lead attacker, met in Prague with a senior Iraqi intelligence official five months before the attack, but we’ve never been able to develop any more of that yet either in terms of confirming it or discrediting it. We just don’t know."[15]

lifted directly from Wiki: Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda link allegations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

'WE haven't been able to confirm or refute. We just don't know.'

Yeah. Sure is selling the "lie" huh? You dishonest hack imbecile.

 

[expatriate]

I don't give a rat's twat what you do or do not have a problem with.

But if you are man enough to concede that President Bush may have believed what he was saying, then even a moron like you should have enough sense not to (in about a half-a-breath) then call him a "liar." For if you say something that is not correct, it is not necessarily a "lie," you dingleberry.

A lie is a false statement made WITH the knowledge that it is untrue.

You babble incessantly, but almost without exception, when your claims get challenged and examined, they fall apart. Kind of continues to establish that you are the liar.

You suck even at internet political message board debate.

by the way, you fucking asshole lying liberal propagandist douchewad, when al Zarqawi went to Iraq, it was with Saddam's knowledge and permission. I defy you to prove your claim that it wasn't.

Now, I have done some additional research but am not yet ready to "go there." So, for now, I'll just recommend that you go jump in a lake.

If Bush had stated that he BELIEVED that Saddam had stockpiles od WMD's, it would not have been a lie. He knew, however, that the intelligence surrounding that issue was laden with caveats and qualifiers... Thus...when he said "There is NO doubt" that Saddam had stockpiles of WMD's, he most certainly knew that there was a degree of doubt. Ergo... It was a lie.

If you've got proof that Al Zarqawi was in Iraq with Saddam's knowledge and permission, please present it. All I have read indicates otherwise. But again, whether Saddam knew about him is less important than the fact at he was NOT affiliated with AQ until AFTER our invasion of Iraq.

My assertion stands unrefuted: there was no relationship between Saddam and OBL prior to 9/11. Telling the American people about a meeting between AQ and Saddam's agents in Prague prior to 9/11 was yet another LIE... And those TWO lies scared America into supporting the war and into letting congress know of their support...based upon two clear LIES from Team Bush.

If YOU have proof of YOUR claim that al Z did not have Saddam's permission, the feel obliged to share it.

AGAIN: if President Bush believed that we did know where the shit was (because he discounted all the obligatory waffling qualifiers), then he did not lie.

Your assertion is fucking irrelevant. Nobody said diddly dick about a relationship between Saddam and Osama bin Laden. What was said was that there had been some relationship between al qaeda and Saddam's Iraq. And that was simply true.

As for the Prague shit, let's just say that you are ever full of shit and leave it at that. Here. Educate your stupid ass dishonest self:

n the same Meet the Press interviews, Cheney implied a connection between Iraq and Mohamed Atta; "The Czech interior minister said today that an Iraqi intelligence officer met with Mohammed Atta, one of the ringleaders of the September 11 terrorists attacks on the United States, just five months before the synchronized hijackings and mass killings were carried out."[14] and "With respect to 9/11, of course, we’ve had the story that’s been public out there. The Czechs alleged that Mohamed Atta, the lead attacker, met in Prague with a senior Iraqi intelligence official five months before the attack, but we’ve never been able to develop any more of that yet either in terms of confirming it or discrediting it. We just don’t know."[15]

lifted directly from Wiki: Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda link allegations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

'WE haven't been able to confirm or refute. We just don't know.'

Yeah. Sure is selling the "lie" huh? You dishonest hack imbecile.

Saying "there is NO doubt", when he was fully aware that there WAS doubt, even if he personally discounted it, was a LIE.

And yes... It was selling the lie. There was no meeting. There was no relationship between Iraq and AQ, but Team Bush was willing to promote the idea that there was. Intelligent people who understand the dynamics of Islamic extremism KNOW that the overriding mission of AQ was the destruction of all secular arab governments within the boundaries of the former caliphate. Saddam would NEVER give WMD's to an organization whose purpose was his destruction. But the sheeple didn't know that and TeaM Bush was not about to educate them.

 

[IlarMeilyr]

Good synopsis.

September 19, 2003 9:00 A.M.
No Question About It
Saddam and the terrorists.

By James S. Robbins

When President Bush stated that “we’ve had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with the September 11th” attacks, his critics quickly spun this into “Saddam Hussein had no links to terrorism.” This was despite the fact that in the same breath the president had said, “there’s no question that Saddam Hussein had al Qaeda ties.” According to Editor & Publisher, the story got little play, though it is certain to come back to haunt the president during the election campaign when Democrats seek to wedge the Iraq and al Qaeda issues. Thus, it is useful to review the bidding on the known facts of the relationship between the two.

While it is still debatable to what degree Saddam Hussein supported the global terrorist network, it is becoming increasingly clear that Iraq provided terror groups with some forms of logistical, intelligence, transportation, training, weapons, and other support. The emerging evidence points to the conclusion that al Qaeda had a cooperative relationship — that is, a strategic alliance — with Iraq. The conventional wisdom has been that this could not have been the case because bin Laden, an Islamic fanatic reactionary, and Saddam, a secular Baathist modernizer, could never align or cooperate. On a personal level, they probably hated each other. If intelligence analysts approach their task with the premise that a relationship could not exist, they will lack the analytical framework necessary to piece together the clues that could demonstrate that it did. Maybe an Elvis Presley/Richard Nixon-type photo of the two would convince them, but not much else.

INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS 101
But the premise is facile. The principle that drove Iraq and al Qaeda together is one of the oldest in international-relations theory — the enemy of my enemy is my friend. The motive for their alliance was a common hatred for the United States and Israel. Ideology seldom determines wartime-alliance structures, and for both Saddam and Osama the 1990s were wartime. The Iraq/al Qaeda combination is as reasonable as the temporary strategic alliance between the U.S. and the Soviet Union against Nazi Germany, or Syrian and American troops fighting side by side during Operation Desert Storm. (Note that it is hard to distinguish Syria from Iraq ideologically, and Baathist solidarity was certainly not a motivating factor in the relationship between the two countries.) Moreover, despite their personal dislike for each other, Saddam Hussein was the only state leader openly to praise bin Laden’s attacks on the U.S. (if not bin Laden himself).

Saddam Hussein showed no reluctance to support terrorism per se during his career. The fact that he gave money to the families of Palestinian suicide terrorists and had a close working relationship with the PLO was well known, and something he admitted. The Iraqi regime maintained a terrorist training camp at Salman Pak near Baghdad where foreign terrorists were instructed in methods of taking over commercial aircraft using weapons no more sophisticated than knives (interesting thought that). Saddam also harbored Abu Nidal and other members of his international terror organization (ANO) in Baghdad. Abu Nidal died under suspicious circumstances in Baghdad in August 2002, an apparent multiple gunshot suicide. Abd-al-Rahman Isa, ANO’s second in command based in Amman, Jordan, was kidnapped September 11, 2002, and has not been heard from since. Coalition forces did recently apprehend ANO member Khala Khadr al-Salahat, the man who reputedly made the bomb for the Libyans that brought down Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland. He was hiding out in Baghdad. Another bomb maker, Abdul Rahman Yasin, was also a Baghdad resident. He was one of the conspirators in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing who had fled there after being detained briefly by the FBI. Recent document finds in Tikrit show that Iraq supplied Yasin with both money and sanctuary. The 1993 WTC attack was masterminded by Yasin’s associate Ramzi Yousef, who received financial support from al Qaeda through Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, a key 9/11 planner.

There is also the case of Abu Zubayr, an officer in Saddam’s secret police who was also the ringleader of an al Qaeda cell in Morocco. He attended the September 5, 2001 meeting in Spain with other al Qaeda operatives, including Ramzi Bin-al-Shibh, the 9/11 financial chief. Abu Zubayr was apprehended in May, 2002, while putting together a plot to mount suicide attacks on U.S. ships passing through the straits of Gibraltar. He has allegedly since stated that Iraq trained and supplied chemical weapons to al Qaeda. In the fall of 2001 al Qaeda refugees from Afghanistan took refuge in northern Iraq until they were driven out by Coalition forces, and Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi, an al Qaeda terrorist active in Europe and North Africa, fled from Baghdad during Operation Iraqi Freedom. He has reportedly been sent back to Iraq to coordinate al Qaeda activities there.

Iraq made direct payments to the Philippine-based al Qaeda-affiliated Abu Sayyaf group. Hamsiraji Sali, an Abu Sayyaf leader on the U.S. most-wanted terrorist list, stated that his gang received about one million pesos (around $20,000) each year from Iraq, for chemicals to make bombs. The link was substantiated immediately after a bombing in Zamboanga City in October 2002 (in which three people were killed including an American Green Beret), when Abu Sayyaf leaders called up the deputy secretary of the Iraqi embassy in Manila, Husham Hussain. Six days later, the cell phone used to call Hussain was employed as the timer on a bomb set to go off near the Philippine military’s Southern Command headquarters. Fortunately, the bomb failed to detonate, and the phone yielded various contact numbers, including Hussain’s and Sali’s. This evidence, coupled with other intelligence the Philippine government would not release, led to Hussain’s expulsion in February 2003. In March, ten Iraqi nationals, some with direct links to al Qaeda, were rounded up in the Philippines and deported as undesirable aliens. In addition, two more consulate officials were expelled for spying.

The most intriguing potential link is reflected in documents found by Toronto Star reporter Mitch Potter in Baghdad in April, 2003. The documents detail direct links between al Qaeda and Saddam’s regime dating back at least to 1998, and mention Osama bin Laden by name. The find supports an October 2001 report by William Safire that noted, among other things, a 1998 meeting in Baghdad between al Qaeda #2 Ayman al Zawahiri and Saddam’s vice president, Taha Yasin Ramadan. Other reports have alleged bin Laden himself traveled to Iraq around that time, or at least planned to. Former Iraqi ambassador to Turkey, Farouk Hijazi, now in custody, allegedly met with bin Laden before the 9/11 attacks.

THE ATTA CASE
The alleged meeting between 9/11 team leader Mohammed Atta and Iraqi intelligence agents in Prague, Czech Republic (CR) is a unique case in that the Czechs have been more adamant about proving it than the United States. Interior Minister Stanislav Gross held a press conference on October 26, 2001, revealing the details of the Prague connection. According to Czech police, visa records indicate that Atta visited Prague twice in 2000. His first confirmed visit was while he was in transit from Hamburg to Newark, New Jersey, June 2-3, 2000. The German newspaper Das Bild reported on October 25, 2001 that according to unnamed FBI sources, Atta met with Iraqi diplomat Ahmad Samir al-Ani in a cafe in Prague on June 2. Another report has it that Atta did not leave the airport terminal since he lacked a visa. Later that summer Atta flew back to the CR. He stayed one night in the Prague Hilton, and may have spent a brief period of time in the town of Kutna Hora, 35 miles north of Prague, under the name Mohammed Sayed Ahmed. During his second visit, he allegedly met with Ahmed Hedshani, the former Iraqi ambassador to Turkey.

The more controversial part of the story is the alleged meeting between Atta and al-Ani in the Iraqi embassy in Prague in the spring of 2001. Atta was identified based on photographs published after the 9/11 attacks by an informer who was at the embassy at the time and had met Atta, though said he was “not 100 percent sure” it was him. The Czech counterintelligence service (BIS) gives it a 70 percent probability. Al-Ani was expelled from the Czech Republic in April 22, 2001, for “activities which conflicted with his status.” He was allegedly plotting an attack on Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty (RFE/RL), which was also supporting Radio Free Iraq.

But if they met, why? It is unlikely they were discussing the alleged RFE/RL operation, since Atta had more important things to do and the Iraqis did not need his help with that one anyway. They might have been discussing the 9/11 attacks, but there is no evidence to support that claim. The article in Das Bild raised another, more intriguing possibility: The Iraqis were supplying Atta with anthrax spores for use in attacks on the United States. The anthrax attacks had commenced shortly before the article was published, and the idea seemed plausible at the time. In fact, it still does — the anthrax used in the attacks was weapons grade, the attacks originated from areas near where the hijackers had been active, and two years of investigation have not turned up the presupposed domestic perpetrator. At some point, you would think Occam’s Razor would come into play.

The US Justice Department disputes most of the above. Because the US has no independent evidence that the 2001 meeting occurred, and since an examination of INS records published in May 2002 showed no movements corresponding to the Czech timeline, Justice concluded that the meeting could not have taken place. (The report did however show Atta going to Madrid for a week in January 2001, and to Zurich for twelve days in July 2001.) Yet, the Prague meeting came and went in a day or so. If Atta had traveled under an assumed name, a possibility the Justice Department acknowledged, he could have been there and back before anyone noticed. (Iraqi deputy prime minister, Tariq Aziz also denied the meetings took place.) The affair has been a matter of contention between the U.S. and CR. Interior Minister Gross, BIS chief Jiri Ruzek, and Jan Klas, chairman of the parliamentary commission overseeing the BIS, have stated that thus far they have seen no evidence to challenge their conclusions. Clearly, the essential person to talk to is al-Ani. He was reportedly apprehended by U.S. forces on July 2, 2003, though where he was caught, where he is now, and what he has had to say about the alleged meetings, are all unanswered questions.

Last June, former CIA Director James Woolsey said that “there were enough connections [between al Qaeda] and Iraq and Iraqi intelligence that we ought to be looking at this very hard, as we capture files and people and hard disk drives in Iraq and so on, and see what we can turn up.” . . . .

No Question About It - James S. Robbins - National Review Online

 

[Faun]

April 17, 2008
Saddam and al-Qaeda
By Debra Baker
Claims that there were no links between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda are wrong. Documents just released by the Pentagon prove it.

In March 2008, the Pentagon released a document that details some of the classified documents from Saddam's regime. This document called the Iraqi Perspectives Project Saddam and Terrorism: Emerging Insights from Captured Iraqi Documents Volume 1 (Redacted) is an overview of "more than 600,000 original captured documents and several thousand hours of audio and video footage archived in a US Department of Defense (DOD) database. As of August 2006, only 15 percent of the captured documents have English translations."[1] This document provides insight into how Saddam operated his regime and his ties to terrorism.

al-Qaeda

Al-Qaeda is not a top-down hierarchical organization, but a mesh of organizations that work together to the same ends - destroying Zionists and Israelis by whatever means necessary. As described by Neil Patrick, a Middle East specialist, al-Qaeda is "a loose confederation with various assignments given to various groups."[2] Osama bin Ladin is at the helm of this loose confederation.

The Council on Foreign Relations states that al-Qaeda is affiliated with the following terrorist organizations:

Egyptian Islamic Jihad
The Libyan Islamic Fighting Group
Islamic Army of Aden (Yemen)
Jama'at al-Tawhid wal Jihad (Iraq)
Lashkar-e-Taiba and Jaish-e-Muhammad (Kashmir)
Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan
Salafist Group for Call and Combat and the Armed Islamic Group (Algeria)
Abu Sayyaf Group (Malaysia, Philippines)
Jemaah Islamiya (Southeast Asia)"[3]

These groups are interconnected; the Council on Foreign Relations states:

"bin Laden's terror network grew out of Egyptian extremist groups, and many of al-Qaeda's leaders are Egyptians. In recent years, bin Laden brought two leaders of Egyptian Islamic Jihad (EIJ), Ayman al-Zawahiri and the late Muhammad Atef, into the top echelons of al-Qaeda. In addition, some members of Jamaat al-Islamiyya have reportedly joined al-Qaeda. Overall, dozens of Egyptian militants passed through al-Qaeda training camps in Taliban-run Afghanistan."


Who is the Egyptian Islamic Jihad (EIJ)?

The EIJ "assassinated president Anwar Sadat in 1981 and later teamed up with Osama Bin Laden in the Afghan war against the Soviet occupation."[4] In 1998, the EIJ merged with al-Qaeda and "is now a wholly owned subsidiary of al-Qaeda," says Steven Cook, a Middle East expert and the Douglas A. Dillon fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations. The group's leader, Ayman al-Zawahiri, is widely regarded as Osama bin Laden's chief deputy."[5]

Now let's look closely at what the Pentagon papers state on Saddam and terrorism.

"Saddam's interest in, and support for, non-Iraqi non-state actors was spread across a wide variety of revolutionary, liberation, nationalist, and Islamic terrorist organizations. For years, Saddam maintained training camps for foreign ‘fighters' drawn from these diverse groups. In some cases, particularly for Palestinians, Saddam was also a strong financial supporter. Saddam supported groups that either associated directly with al-Qaeda (such as the Egyptian Islamic Jihad, led at one time by bin Laden's deputy, Ayman al-Zawahiri) or that generally shared al-Qaeda's stated goals and objectives."[6]


Is the EIJ associated with al-Qaeda? According to the Council on Foreign Affairs, the EIJ is a "wholly owned subsidiary of al-Qaeda."[7] Considering the September 11, 2001 attack on the US was conducted by both Ayman al-Zawahiri and Osama bin Laden, the facts support the Council on Foreign Affairs description of al-Qaeda. Ayman al-Zawahiri was the leader of the EIJ before it merged with al-Qaeda in 1998. Now let's take a closer look at Saddam and his regime of terror.

On page 16 of the Pentagon papers, there is a memorandum that lists the many terrorist groups that Iraq was supporting. The memorandum was written by the Iraqi Intelligence Service (IIS) and is labeled as Extract 10. The recipient of this memorandum was Saddam a decade before Operation Iraqi Freedom. In Extract 10 it lists the EIJ:

"Islamic Jihad Organization [Egyptian Islamic Jihad]


In a meeting in the Sudan we agreed to renew our relations with the Islamic Jihad Organization in Egypt. Our information on the group is as follows:

It was established in 1979.
Its goal is to apply the Islamic shari' a law and establish Islamic rule.
It is considered one of the most brutal Egyptian organizations.
It carried out numerous successful operations, including the assassination of Sadat.
We have previously met with the organization's representative and we agreed on a plan to carry out commando operations against the Egyptian regime."[8]


In Extract 12 on page 16 of the Pentagon papers, there is another memorandum that was drafted in Saddam's office which specifically shows that Saddam was directly financing and training the EIJ:

"Office of the President of the Republic - Secretary

Subject: Carrying out a directive

"There has been agreement since December 24, 1990, with the representative of the Islamic Group organization in Egypt on a plan to move against the Egyptian regime by carrying out commando operations provided that we guarantee them financing and training and provide them with the requirements in accordance with the honorable order of the President [Saddam Hussein] which calls for carrying out commando operations against hostile alliance governments. Afterwards, the operations will cease immediately after the ceasefire.

"With respect to the proposal of our special security agency [IIS] regarding calling a representative of the Islamic Group in Egypt to Iraq in our topsecret personal letter dated 11 March 1993. This letter was in response to the President directing that only financial support is available for now. Intelligence operatives and contacts should be maintained in any movement in the Arab homeland, as indicated by the President in a top-secret letter, dated 25 March 1992. [Emphasis added]"[9]


Saddam and State Terrorism

Saddam was in the business of terror. From the recruitment, training, financing, and support of terrorism, Saddam formed an alliance with terror. Of course Saddam obtained control of Iraq via his terrorist Baath party, but the Pentagon Papers on Saddam reveal much more to Saddam's terrorist ties. The UN sanctions imposed after the 1991 Gulf War,

"reduced Saddam's ability to shape regional and world events, steadily draining his military, economic, and military powers. The rise of Islamist fundamentalism in the region gave Saddam the opportunity to make terrorism, one of the few tools remaining in Saddam's "coercion" toolbox, not only cost effective but a formal instrument of state power."[10]


The UN sanctions were working, but Saddam being resourceful saw the jihadist movement as a vehicle to carry out his anti-American and anti-Israeli actions.

Terrorist Training Camps in Iraq

Saddam had terrorist training camps within Iraq. The Pentagon report on Saddam goes on to say that "captured Iraqi archives reveal that Saddam was training Arab fighters (non-Iraqi) in Iraqi training camps more than a decade prior to Operation Desert Storm (1991). A Saddam memorandum directed the IIS to submit a list of foreign nationals who were trained in Iraq and carried out operations during the 1991 war against the United States. In response, the IIS sent a list of one-hundred names of foreign national fighters, categorized by country"[11]

"[Foreign national fighters by country]

Palestine 38
Lebanon 10
Tunisia 8
Egypt 4
Libya 1
Sudan 18
Syria 10
Eritrea 7
Morocco 3
Unknown 1"[12]


The Pentagon papers on Saddam state:

"under Saddam, the Iraqi regime used its paramilitary Fedayeen Saddam training camps to train terrorists for use inside and outside Iraq. In 1999, the top ten graduates of each Fedayeen Saddam class were specifically chosen for assignment to London, from there to be ready to conduct operations anywhere in Europe."[13] Saddam was training non-Iraqi's to carry out terrorist actions throughout Europe.


The Pentagon papers on Saddam go on to explain the following specific training that was supplied in Iraq:

"Re-equipping and training Palestinian fighters in al-Quds training camps [in Iraq].
Establishing and activating a course to train Arab Liberation Front fighters on martyrdom operations.
Establishing fighter schools for Arab volunteers and later Iraqi volunteers.
Re-establishing and re-equipping the military base of the Arab Liberation Front.
Training groups from the occupied territories [Palestine] on light weapons and tanks in secret thirty-day courses." [14]


State Support of Terrorism

Saddam provided support to terrorists that only a state could provide by issuing passports to known terrorists so they could move about freely. The Pentagon papers on Saddam state the

"M8 annual report also notes that among the 699 passports, renewals, and other official documentation that the IIS issued, many were issued to known members of terrorist organizations."[15]


A specific example of Saddam issuing passports to and harboring a known terrorist is Abu aI-Abbas, a Palestinian Liberation Front leader. Saddam allowed Abu aI-Abbas and his wife to live in Iraq under Saddam's protection. Saddam went so far as to issue both Abu aI-Abbas and his wife diplomatic passports so they could travel the Middle East freely. "Abu aI-Abbas originally fled to Iraq to avoid an Italian warrant imposing five life terms for his part in the 1985 hijacking of the Italian cruise liner Achille Lauro and the murder of an American citizen." [16]

Funding of Terrorism

Not only did Saddam provide training and support to terrorists, Saddam readily financed them.

Saddam was financing the EIJ from at least 1990 and after based on the letter drafted by the Office of the President of the Republic -- Secretary (Extract 12). A specific example is a memo that was "drafted in Saddam's office, it refers to an agreement with Islamic terrorists to conduct operations against the Egyptian regime during the first Gulf War (1991) and for continued financial support for the terrorists after hostilities ended."[17]

In conclusion, the Pentagon Papers clearly show that Saddam had direct ties to the EIJ. Saddam was both financing and training EIJ members from as far back as 1990. The support Saddam was providing was ongoing. According to the Council on Foreign Relations, the EIJ merged with al-Qaeda in 1998. Therefore, Saddam was financing and training al-Qaeda.

The Pentagon papers only stated the EIJ link, not specifically the al-Qaeda link. The second in command of al-Qaeda and the person who masterminded 9/11 is Ayman al-Zawahiri. Ayman al-Zawahiri was the leader of the EIJ prior to its 1998 merging with al-Qaeda. This truth has been subverted by the media. All the major media outlets have just quoted what is written in the Executive Summary of the document which states that there is no "smoking gun[18]." But upon further investigation of the EIJ, a direct link between al-Qaeda and Saddam's Iraq is seen.

Archived-Articles: Saddam and al-Qaeda

Now, you Fauny, scurry off to provide your usual withering retort. It must include some play on my username. You must use a lot of the logical fallacy known as "arguing to the man" rather than to the point. You must make some idiotic fallacious argument attacking the "messenger" (in this case your target, beyond me, should be "American Thinker"). Deny everything and do some of your standard bluff and bluster.

In the end, though, you will remain wrong.

All you prove with that is just how fucking retarded and gullible you are. The Pentagon, after researching the matter, found no link between the two. You offer a response to that which does nothing to refute that.

Everything in that article which tries desperately to draw a connection between Iraq and Al-Qaeda centers on some connections between Iraq and EIJ -- but those connections ended even before EIJ joined up with Al-Qaeda.

Desperate, yes. But no connection to Al-Qaeda.

You may now continue with your bitter-induced rants.

 

[IlarMeilyr]

April 17, 2008
Saddam and al-Qaeda
By Debra Baker
Claims that there were no links between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda are wrong. Documents just released by the Pentagon prove it.

In March 2008, the Pentagon released a document that details some of the classified documents from Saddam's regime. This document called the Iraqi Perspectives Project Saddam and Terrorism: Emerging Insights from Captured Iraqi Documents Volume 1 (Redacted) is an overview of "more than 600,000 original captured documents and several thousand hours of audio and video footage archived in a US Department of Defense (DOD) database. As of August 2006, only 15 percent of the captured documents have English translations."[1] This document provides insight into how Saddam operated his regime and his ties to terrorism.

al-Qaeda

Al-Qaeda is not a top-down hierarchical organization, but a mesh of organizations that work together to the same ends - destroying Zionists and Israelis by whatever means necessary. As described by Neil Patrick, a Middle East specialist, al-Qaeda is "a loose confederation with various assignments given to various groups."[2] Osama bin Ladin is at the helm of this loose confederation.

The Council on Foreign Relations states that al-Qaeda is affiliated with the following terrorist organizations:

Egyptian Islamic Jihad
The Libyan Islamic Fighting Group
Islamic Army of Aden (Yemen)
Jama'at al-Tawhid wal Jihad (Iraq)
Lashkar-e-Taiba and Jaish-e-Muhammad (Kashmir)
Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan
Salafist Group for Call and Combat and the Armed Islamic Group (Algeria)
Abu Sayyaf Group (Malaysia, Philippines)
Jemaah Islamiya (Southeast Asia)"[3]

These groups are interconnected; the Council on Foreign Relations states:

"bin Laden's terror network grew out of Egyptian extremist groups, and many of al-Qaeda's leaders are Egyptians. In recent years, bin Laden brought two leaders of Egyptian Islamic Jihad (EIJ), Ayman al-Zawahiri and the late Muhammad Atef, into the top echelons of al-Qaeda. In addition, some members of Jamaat al-Islamiyya have reportedly joined al-Qaeda. Overall, dozens of Egyptian militants passed through al-Qaeda training camps in Taliban-run Afghanistan."


Who is the Egyptian Islamic Jihad (EIJ)?

The EIJ "assassinated president Anwar Sadat in 1981 and later teamed up with Osama Bin Laden in the Afghan war against the Soviet occupation."[4] In 1998, the EIJ merged with al-Qaeda and "is now a wholly owned subsidiary of al-Qaeda," says Steven Cook, a Middle East expert and the Douglas A. Dillon fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations. The group's leader, Ayman al-Zawahiri, is widely regarded as Osama bin Laden's chief deputy."[5]

Now let's look closely at what the Pentagon papers state on Saddam and terrorism.

"Saddam's interest in, and support for, non-Iraqi non-state actors was spread across a wide variety of revolutionary, liberation, nationalist, and Islamic terrorist organizations. For years, Saddam maintained training camps for foreign ‘fighters' drawn from these diverse groups. In some cases, particularly for Palestinians, Saddam was also a strong financial supporter. Saddam supported groups that either associated directly with al-Qaeda (such as the Egyptian Islamic Jihad, led at one time by bin Laden's deputy, Ayman al-Zawahiri) or that generally shared al-Qaeda's stated goals and objectives."[6]


Is the EIJ associated with al-Qaeda? According to the Council on Foreign Affairs, the EIJ is a "wholly owned subsidiary of al-Qaeda."[7] Considering the September 11, 2001 attack on the US was conducted by both Ayman al-Zawahiri and Osama bin Laden, the facts support the Council on Foreign Affairs description of al-Qaeda. Ayman al-Zawahiri was the leader of the EIJ before it merged with al-Qaeda in 1998. Now let's take a closer look at Saddam and his regime of terror.

On page 16 of the Pentagon papers, there is a memorandum that lists the many terrorist groups that Iraq was supporting. The memorandum was written by the Iraqi Intelligence Service (IIS) and is labeled as Extract 10. The recipient of this memorandum was Saddam a decade before Operation Iraqi Freedom. In Extract 10 it lists the EIJ:

"Islamic Jihad Organization [Egyptian Islamic Jihad]


In a meeting in the Sudan we agreed to renew our relations with the Islamic Jihad Organization in Egypt. Our information on the group is as follows:

It was established in 1979.
Its goal is to apply the Islamic shari' a law and establish Islamic rule.
It is considered one of the most brutal Egyptian organizations.
It carried out numerous successful operations, including the assassination of Sadat.
We have previously met with the organization's representative and we agreed on a plan to carry out commando operations against the Egyptian regime."[8]


In Extract 12 on page 16 of the Pentagon papers, there is another memorandum that was drafted in Saddam's office which specifically shows that Saddam was directly financing and training the EIJ:

"Office of the President of the Republic - Secretary

Subject: Carrying out a directive

"There has been agreement since December 24, 1990, with the representative of the Islamic Group organization in Egypt on a plan to move against the Egyptian regime by carrying out commando operations provided that we guarantee them financing and training and provide them with the requirements in accordance with the honorable order of the President [Saddam Hussein] which calls for carrying out commando operations against hostile alliance governments. Afterwards, the operations will cease immediately after the ceasefire.

"With respect to the proposal of our special security agency [IIS] regarding calling a representative of the Islamic Group in Egypt to Iraq in our topsecret personal letter dated 11 March 1993. This letter was in response to the President directing that only financial support is available for now. Intelligence operatives and contacts should be maintained in any movement in the Arab homeland, as indicated by the President in a top-secret letter, dated 25 March 1992. [Emphasis added]"[9]


Saddam and State Terrorism

Saddam was in the business of terror. From the recruitment, training, financing, and support of terrorism, Saddam formed an alliance with terror. Of course Saddam obtained control of Iraq via his terrorist Baath party, but the Pentagon Papers on Saddam reveal much more to Saddam's terrorist ties. The UN sanctions imposed after the 1991 Gulf War,

"reduced Saddam's ability to shape regional and world events, steadily draining his military, economic, and military powers. The rise of Islamist fundamentalism in the region gave Saddam the opportunity to make terrorism, one of the few tools remaining in Saddam's "coercion" toolbox, not only cost effective but a formal instrument of state power."[10]


The UN sanctions were working, but Saddam being resourceful saw the jihadist movement as a vehicle to carry out his anti-American and anti-Israeli actions.

Terrorist Training Camps in Iraq

Saddam had terrorist training camps within Iraq. The Pentagon report on Saddam goes on to say that "captured Iraqi archives reveal that Saddam was training Arab fighters (non-Iraqi) in Iraqi training camps more than a decade prior to Operation Desert Storm (1991). A Saddam memorandum directed the IIS to submit a list of foreign nationals who were trained in Iraq and carried out operations during the 1991 war against the United States. In response, the IIS sent a list of one-hundred names of foreign national fighters, categorized by country"[11]

"[Foreign national fighters by country]

Palestine 38
Lebanon 10
Tunisia 8
Egypt 4
Libya 1
Sudan 18
Syria 10
Eritrea 7
Morocco 3
Unknown 1"[12]


The Pentagon papers on Saddam state:

"under Saddam, the Iraqi regime used its paramilitary Fedayeen Saddam training camps to train terrorists for use inside and outside Iraq. In 1999, the top ten graduates of each Fedayeen Saddam class were specifically chosen for assignment to London, from there to be ready to conduct operations anywhere in Europe."[13] Saddam was training non-Iraqi's to carry out terrorist actions throughout Europe.


The Pentagon papers on Saddam go on to explain the following specific training that was supplied in Iraq:

"Re-equipping and training Palestinian fighters in al-Quds training camps [in Iraq].
Establishing and activating a course to train Arab Liberation Front fighters on martyrdom operations.
Establishing fighter schools for Arab volunteers and later Iraqi volunteers.
Re-establishing and re-equipping the military base of the Arab Liberation Front.
Training groups from the occupied territories [Palestine] on light weapons and tanks in secret thirty-day courses." [14]


State Support of Terrorism

Saddam provided support to terrorists that only a state could provide by issuing passports to known terrorists so they could move about freely. The Pentagon papers on Saddam state the

"M8 annual report also notes that among the 699 passports, renewals, and other official documentation that the IIS issued, many were issued to known members of terrorist organizations."[15]


A specific example of Saddam issuing passports to and harboring a known terrorist is Abu aI-Abbas, a Palestinian Liberation Front leader. Saddam allowed Abu aI-Abbas and his wife to live in Iraq under Saddam's protection. Saddam went so far as to issue both Abu aI-Abbas and his wife diplomatic passports so they could travel the Middle East freely. "Abu aI-Abbas originally fled to Iraq to avoid an Italian warrant imposing five life terms for his part in the 1985 hijacking of the Italian cruise liner Achille Lauro and the murder of an American citizen." [16]

Funding of Terrorism

Not only did Saddam provide training and support to terrorists, Saddam readily financed them.

Saddam was financing the EIJ from at least 1990 and after based on the letter drafted by the Office of the President of the Republic -- Secretary (Extract 12). A specific example is a memo that was "drafted in Saddam's office, it refers to an agreement with Islamic terrorists to conduct operations against the Egyptian regime during the first Gulf War (1991) and for continued financial support for the terrorists after hostilities ended."[17]

In conclusion, the Pentagon Papers clearly show that Saddam had direct ties to the EIJ. Saddam was both financing and training EIJ members from as far back as 1990. The support Saddam was providing was ongoing. According to the Council on Foreign Relations, the EIJ merged with al-Qaeda in 1998. Therefore, Saddam was financing and training al-Qaeda.

The Pentagon papers only stated the EIJ link, not specifically the al-Qaeda link. The second in command of al-Qaeda and the person who masterminded 9/11 is Ayman al-Zawahiri. Ayman al-Zawahiri was the leader of the EIJ prior to its 1998 merging with al-Qaeda. This truth has been subverted by the media. All the major media outlets have just quoted what is written in the Executive Summary of the document which states that there is no "smoking gun[18]." But upon further investigation of the EIJ, a direct link between al-Qaeda and Saddam's Iraq is seen.

Archived-Articles: Saddam and al-Qaeda

Now, you Fauny, scurry off to provide your usual withering retort. It must include some play on my username. You must use a lot of the logical fallacy known as "arguing to the man" rather than to the point. You must make some idiotic fallacious argument attacking the "messenger" (in this case your target, beyond me, should be "American Thinker"). Deny everything and do some of your standard bluff and bluster.

In the end, though, you will remain wrong.

All you prove with that is just how fucking retarded and gullible you are. The Pentagon, after researching the matter, found no link between the two. You offer a response to that which does nothing to refute that.

Everything in that article which tries desperately to draw a connection between Iraq and Al-Qaeda centers on some connections between Iraq and EIJ -- but those connections ended even before EIJ joined up with Al-Qaeda.

Desperate, yes. But no connection to Al-Qaeda.

You may now continue with your bitter-induced rants.

No no, you dishonest imbecile.

That is NOT what the Pentagon "found."

You are such a fucking lowlife utterly dishonest tool, you can't even be honest when the material gets quoted for you.

There was no operational relationship found, Then again, no such claim had ever been made.

Now, get back to flinging poo, you inept failure loser boy.

 

[Faun]

I have to stop doing Fauny's homework. It's pointless, obviously. There's no chance he will be able to learn anything.

But let's just put another one of his endless lies to bed:

For example, no one disputes that Abu Musab al Zarqawi, who once ran an Al-Qaeda training camp in Afghanistan and is leading Al-Qaeda terrorist attacks in Iraq today, was in Iraq BEFORE the war started getting medical care. In and of itself, that would seem to strongly suggest a significant connection.

But wait, there’s more!

Consider this comment by former CIA Director George Tenet in a letter to the Senate Intelligence Committee on October 7, 2002:

“Credible reporting states that al Qaeda leaders sought contacts in Iraq who could help them acquire WMD capabilities. The reporting also stated that Iraq has provided training to al Qaeda members in the areas of poisons and gases and making conventional bombs.”​

Here’s more from Richard Miniter, author of “Losing Bin Laden: How Bill Clinton’s Failures Unleashed Global Terror“:

* Abdul Rahman Yasin was the only member of the al Qaeda cell that detonated the 1993 World Trade Center bomb to remain at large in the Clinton years. He fled to Iraq. U.S. forces recently discovered a cache of documents in Tikrit, Saddam’s hometown, that show that Iraq gave Mr. Yasin both a house and monthly salary.* Bin Laden met at least eight times with officers of Iraq’s Special Security Organization, a secret police agency run by Saddam’s son Qusay, and met with officials from Saddam’s mukhabarat, its external intelligence service, according to intelligence made public by Secretary of State Colin Powell, who was speaking before the United Nations Security Council on February 6, 2003.

* In 1998, Abbas al-Janabi, a longtime aide to Saddam’s son Uday, defected to the West. At the time, he repeatedly told reporters that there was a direct connection between Iraq and al Qaeda.

* Mohamed Mansour Shahab, a smuggler hired by Iraq to transport weapons to bin Laden in Afghanistan, was arrested by anti-Hussein Kurdish forces in May, 2000. He later told his story to American intelligence and a reporter for the New Yorker magazine.​

Here’s more from Weekly Standard columnist Stephen Hayes, author of “The Connection : How al Qaeda’s Collaboration with Saddam Hussein Has Endangered America“:

“Evan Bayh, Democrat from Indiana, has described the Iraq-al Qaeda connection as a relationship of “mutual exploitation.” Joe Lieberman said, “There are extensive contacts between Saddam Hussein’s government and al Qaeda.” George Tenet, too, has spoken of those contacts and goes further, claiming Iraqi “training” of al Qaeda terrorists on WMDs and provision of “safe haven” for al Qaeda in Baghdad. Richard Clarke once said the U.S. government was “sure” Iraq had provided a chemical-weapons precursor to an al Qaeda-linked pharmaceutical plant in Sudan. Even Hillary Clinton cited the Iraq-al Qaeda connection as one reason she voted for the Iraq War.”​

So is there proof that Saddam Hussein and Al-Qaeda worked together to hit targets in the US? No. But, is there extensive evidence that they had ties and worked together at times? Absolutely.

Debunking 8 Anti-War Myths About The Conflict In Iraq | Right Wing News

Fauny, you little hack bitch, get back here and lie your ass off some more.

Holy shit!!

rightwingnews.com!!!!!

That site is so retarded, it explains why you're so stupid, since they're apparently responsible for some of your education.

For example, they cite Yasin fleeing to Iraq after the WTC'93 attack -- but they fail to mention that Hussein had him locked up in prison.

It cites Tenet stating in a letter that 'al Qaeda leaders sought contacts in Iraq who could help them acquire WMD capabilities,' but fails to note that years later, Tenet expressed regret for the contents of that letter in an interview on CNN, which he called, sloppy.

Then it cites Even Bayh inferring a connection between Hussein and Al-Qaeda, but it fails to mention in the same interview, he also said a lot of the intelligence is based on speculation and conjecture.

That leaves you with the same idiocy that led you to falsely believe that Iraq sought yellowcake from Niger -- based on speculation and conjecture.

You have no facts. Just speculation and conjecture. And here you are, posting from moronic sites like rightwingnews.com, which paint just half of the picture so as to paint the picture they want rightwingidiots like you to believe.

 

[Faun]

Archived-Articles: Saddam and al-Qaeda

Now, you Fauny, scurry off to provide your usual withering retort. It must include some play on my username. You must use a lot of the logical fallacy known as "arguing to the man" rather than to the point. You must make some idiotic fallacious argument attacking the "messenger" (in this case your target, beyond me, should be "American Thinker"). Deny everything and do some of your standard bluff and bluster.

In the end, though, you will remain wrong.

All you prove with that is just how fucking retarded and gullible you are. The Pentagon, after researching the matter, found no link between the two. You offer a response to that which does nothing to refute that.

Everything in that article which tries desperately to draw a connection between Iraq and Al-Qaeda centers on some connections between Iraq and EIJ -- but those connections ended even before EIJ joined up with Al-Qaeda.

Desperate, yes. But no connection to Al-Qaeda.

You may now continue with your bitter-induced rants.

No no, you dishonest imbecile.

That is NOT what the Pentagon "found."

You are such a fucking lowlife utterly dishonest tool, you can't even be honest when the material gets quoted for you.

There was no operational relationship found, Then again, no such claim had ever been made.

Now, get back to flinging poo, you inept failure loser boy.

You're too retarded to understand this, but I'll post it for the benefit of those here who can ...

Hussein's Iraq and al Qaeda not linked, Pentagon says

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The U.S. military's first and only study looking into ties between Saddam Hussein's Iraq and al Qaeda showed no connection between the two, according to a military report released by the Pentagon.

The report released by the Joint Forces Command five years after the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq said it found no "smoking gun" after reviewing about 600,000 Iraqi documents captured in the invasion and looking at interviews of key Iraqi leadership held by the United States, Pentagon officials said.​

 

[Misty]

What I find frustrating is the left's constant denial that every prominent democrat spoke out about saddam having WMD's and how he had to be stopped.

And that over 100 democrats in congress, including Obama's vice president and former and present secretary of state, voted for the Iraq war.

 

[Faun]

Good synopsis.

September 19, 2003 9:00 A.M.
No Question About It
Saddam and the terrorists.

By James S. Robbins

When President Bush stated that “we’ve had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with the September 11th” attacks, his critics quickly spun this into “Saddam Hussein had no links to terrorism.” This was despite the fact that in the same breath the president had said, “there’s no question that Saddam Hussein had al Qaeda ties.” According to Editor & Publisher, the story got little play, though it is certain to come back to haunt the president during the election campaign when Democrats seek to wedge the Iraq and al Qaeda issues. Thus, it is useful to review the bidding on the known facts of the relationship between the two.

While it is still debatable to what degree Saddam Hussein supported the global terrorist network, it is becoming increasingly clear that Iraq provided terror groups with some forms of logistical, intelligence, transportation, training, weapons, and other support. The emerging evidence points to the conclusion that al Qaeda had a cooperative relationship — that is, a strategic alliance — with Iraq. The conventional wisdom has been that this could not have been the case because bin Laden, an Islamic fanatic reactionary, and Saddam, a secular Baathist modernizer, could never align or cooperate. On a personal level, they probably hated each other. If intelligence analysts approach their task with the premise that a relationship could not exist, they will lack the analytical framework necessary to piece together the clues that could demonstrate that it did. Maybe an Elvis Presley/Richard Nixon-type photo of the two would convince them, but not much else.

INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS 101
But the premise is facile. The principle that drove Iraq and al Qaeda together is one of the oldest in international-relations theory — the enemy of my enemy is my friend. The motive for their alliance was a common hatred for the United States and Israel. Ideology seldom determines wartime-alliance structures, and for both Saddam and Osama the 1990s were wartime. The Iraq/al Qaeda combination is as reasonable as the temporary strategic alliance between the U.S. and the Soviet Union against Nazi Germany, or Syrian and American troops fighting side by side during Operation Desert Storm. (Note that it is hard to distinguish Syria from Iraq ideologically, and Baathist solidarity was certainly not a motivating factor in the relationship between the two countries.) Moreover, despite their personal dislike for each other, Saddam Hussein was the only state leader openly to praise bin Laden’s attacks on the U.S. (if not bin Laden himself).

Saddam Hussein showed no reluctance to support terrorism per se during his career. The fact that he gave money to the families of Palestinian suicide terrorists and had a close working relationship with the PLO was well known, and something he admitted. The Iraqi regime maintained a terrorist training camp at Salman Pak near Baghdad where foreign terrorists were instructed in methods of taking over commercial aircraft using weapons no more sophisticated than knives (interesting thought that). Saddam also harbored Abu Nidal and other members of his international terror organization (ANO) in Baghdad. Abu Nidal died under suspicious circumstances in Baghdad in August 2002, an apparent multiple gunshot suicide. Abd-al-Rahman Isa, ANO’s second in command based in Amman, Jordan, was kidnapped September 11, 2002, and has not been heard from since. Coalition forces did recently apprehend ANO member Khala Khadr al-Salahat, the man who reputedly made the bomb for the Libyans that brought down Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland. He was hiding out in Baghdad. Another bomb maker, Abdul Rahman Yasin, was also a Baghdad resident. He was one of the conspirators in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing who had fled there after being detained briefly by the FBI. Recent document finds in Tikrit show that Iraq supplied Yasin with both money and sanctuary. The 1993 WTC attack was masterminded by Yasin’s associate Ramzi Yousef, who received financial support from al Qaeda through Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, a key 9/11 planner.

There is also the case of Abu Zubayr, an officer in Saddam’s secret police who was also the ringleader of an al Qaeda cell in Morocco. He attended the September 5, 2001 meeting in Spain with other al Qaeda operatives, including Ramzi Bin-al-Shibh, the 9/11 financial chief. Abu Zubayr was apprehended in May, 2002, while putting together a plot to mount suicide attacks on U.S. ships passing through the straits of Gibraltar. He has allegedly since stated that Iraq trained and supplied chemical weapons to al Qaeda. In the fall of 2001 al Qaeda refugees from Afghanistan took refuge in northern Iraq until they were driven out by Coalition forces, and Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi, an al Qaeda terrorist active in Europe and North Africa, fled from Baghdad during Operation Iraqi Freedom. He has reportedly been sent back to Iraq to coordinate al Qaeda activities there.

Iraq made direct payments to the Philippine-based al Qaeda-affiliated Abu Sayyaf group. Hamsiraji Sali, an Abu Sayyaf leader on the U.S. most-wanted terrorist list, stated that his gang received about one million pesos (around $20,000) each year from Iraq, for chemicals to make bombs. The link was substantiated immediately after a bombing in Zamboanga City in October 2002 (in which three people were killed including an American Green Beret), when Abu Sayyaf leaders called up the deputy secretary of the Iraqi embassy in Manila, Husham Hussain. Six days later, the cell phone used to call Hussain was employed as the timer on a bomb set to go off near the Philippine military’s Southern Command headquarters. Fortunately, the bomb failed to detonate, and the phone yielded various contact numbers, including Hussain’s and Sali’s. This evidence, coupled with other intelligence the Philippine government would not release, led to Hussain’s expulsion in February 2003. In March, ten Iraqi nationals, some with direct links to al Qaeda, were rounded up in the Philippines and deported as undesirable aliens. In addition, two more consulate officials were expelled for spying.

The most intriguing potential link is reflected in documents found by Toronto Star reporter Mitch Potter in Baghdad in April, 2003. The documents detail direct links between al Qaeda and Saddam’s regime dating back at least to 1998, and mention Osama bin Laden by name. The find supports an October 2001 report by William Safire that noted, among other things, a 1998 meeting in Baghdad between al Qaeda #2 Ayman al Zawahiri and Saddam’s vice president, Taha Yasin Ramadan. Other reports have alleged bin Laden himself traveled to Iraq around that time, or at least planned to. Former Iraqi ambassador to Turkey, Farouk Hijazi, now in custody, allegedly met with bin Laden before the 9/11 attacks.

THE ATTA CASE
The alleged meeting between 9/11 team leader Mohammed Atta and Iraqi intelligence agents in Prague, Czech Republic (CR) is a unique case in that the Czechs have been more adamant about proving it than the United States. Interior Minister Stanislav Gross held a press conference on October 26, 2001, revealing the details of the Prague connection. According to Czech police, visa records indicate that Atta visited Prague twice in 2000. His first confirmed visit was while he was in transit from Hamburg to Newark, New Jersey, June 2-3, 2000. The German newspaper Das Bild reported on October 25, 2001 that according to unnamed FBI sources, Atta met with Iraqi diplomat Ahmad Samir al-Ani in a cafe in Prague on June 2. Another report has it that Atta did not leave the airport terminal since he lacked a visa. Later that summer Atta flew back to the CR. He stayed one night in the Prague Hilton, and may have spent a brief period of time in the town of Kutna Hora, 35 miles north of Prague, under the name Mohammed Sayed Ahmed. During his second visit, he allegedly met with Ahmed Hedshani, the former Iraqi ambassador to Turkey.

The more controversial part of the story is the alleged meeting between Atta and al-Ani in the Iraqi embassy in Prague in the spring of 2001. Atta was identified based on photographs published after the 9/11 attacks by an informer who was at the embassy at the time and had met Atta, though said he was “not 100 percent sure” it was him. The Czech counterintelligence service (BIS) gives it a 70 percent probability. Al-Ani was expelled from the Czech Republic in April 22, 2001, for “activities which conflicted with his status.” He was allegedly plotting an attack on Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty (RFE/RL), which was also supporting Radio Free Iraq.

But if they met, why? It is unlikely they were discussing the alleged RFE/RL operation, since Atta had more important things to do and the Iraqis did not need his help with that one anyway. They might have been discussing the 9/11 attacks, but there is no evidence to support that claim. The article in Das Bild raised another, more intriguing possibility: The Iraqis were supplying Atta with anthrax spores for use in attacks on the United States. The anthrax attacks had commenced shortly before the article was published, and the idea seemed plausible at the time. In fact, it still does — the anthrax used in the attacks was weapons grade, the attacks originated from areas near where the hijackers had been active, and two years of investigation have not turned up the presupposed domestic perpetrator. At some point, you would think Occam’s Razor would come into play.

The US Justice Department disputes most of the above. Because the US has no independent evidence that the 2001 meeting occurred, and since an examination of INS records published in May 2002 showed no movements corresponding to the Czech timeline, Justice concluded that the meeting could not have taken place. (The report did however show Atta going to Madrid for a week in January 2001, and to Zurich for twelve days in July 2001.) Yet, the Prague meeting came and went in a day or so. If Atta had traveled under an assumed name, a possibility the Justice Department acknowledged, he could have been there and back before anyone noticed. (Iraqi deputy prime minister, Tariq Aziz also denied the meetings took place.) The affair has been a matter of contention between the U.S. and CR. Interior Minister Gross, BIS chief Jiri Ruzek, and Jan Klas, chairman of the parliamentary commission overseeing the BIS, have stated that thus far they have seen no evidence to challenge their conclusions. Clearly, the essential person to talk to is al-Ani. He was reportedly apprehended by U.S. forces on July 2, 2003, though where he was caught, where he is now, and what he has had to say about the alleged meetings, are all unanswered questions.

Last June, former CIA Director James Woolsey said that “there were enough connections [between al Qaeda] and Iraq and Iraqi intelligence that we ought to be looking at this very hard, as we capture files and people and hard disk drives in Iraq and so on, and see what we can turn up.” . . . .

No Question About It - James S. Robbins - National Review Online

Holy fuck! How gullible are you, ChoardBreath???

That Atta in Prague bullshit has been debunked.

Yet idiots like you, who continue to fluff Bush, can't let it go.

 

[expatriate]

What I find frustrating is the left's constant denial that every prominent democrat spoke out about saddam having WMD's and how he had to be stopped.

And that over 100 democrats in congress, including Obama's vice president and former and present secretary of state, voted for the Iraq war.

A majority of democrats in congress voted AGAINST the resolution. And of all the democrats who spoke about Saddam and WMD's... all but one or two couched their language to avoid conveying the impression of certainty. Team Bush was unanimous in their LIE of certainty where none existed.

 

[jtpr312]

Having viable chemical weapons in the 1980's is NOT synonymous with having them two decades later. The shelf life on those things is like strawberries.

And nothing Saddan EVER had - even if it WERE viable - would create a "mushroom cloud over an American city".

Well you're obviously misinformed. A small nuclear device, easily transportable, is quite capable of creating a mushroom cloud over an American city and that was one of the things sadam was trying to aquire, but that's irelevent. Sadam showed he had the ability to lauch missles into neighboring nations, such as Israel, so what would stop him from creating a mushroom cloud over an allie's city? Furthermore, though the shelf life on a chemical agent, ONCE MIXED, is relatively short, such as 5yrs for some agents, the chemical compounds needed to produce them are easily available, easily stockpiled and eaisly stored for long periods of time, meaning since we KNOW he used them as late as 1991, there was a better than even chance of him still retaining these compounds 10yrs later. We also KNOW that sadam started a Biological Weapons program in the 80's and these types of weapon payloads often times have shlf lives of decades and longer. We KNOW that as late as 91 the sadam government had weaponized 6,000 liters of B. anthracis spores and 12,000 liters of botulinum toxin in aerial bombs, rockets, and missile warheads that were deployed but never used. The Mukhabarat was know to have continued research and developement of biological weapons up till the late 90's and beyond into the early part of the new century.

Again and again and again. Dubya himself admitted that the primary reason for invading Iraq was to disarm him of his WMD's, but HE DIDN'T HAVE ANY. The lie about WMD's and the lie about an Al Qaeda connection were both necessary to scare the American sheeple into supporting a war against Iraq.

Well, maybe like so many of his fellow Americans, you know like the idiots that voted for obama twice, he was duped by the slick words and lies of the democratic party, words they spouted even as late as 2002-2003.

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by:
Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by:
Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them."
Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do"
Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

Guess Bush was too stupid to know that liberal democrats are liars and should never be trusted.

 

[jtpr312]

This topic always seems to devolve into minutia. Like arguing for days about how many angels can dnance on the head of a pin. The overarching fact is: Team Dubya scared us by telling us there was an absolute certainty that Saddam had weapons of MASS destruction. They talked about mushroom clouds and yellowcake and told us with absolute certainty that not only did Saddam have these enormous stockpiles of weapons of MASS destruction, but that he was in cahoots with Osama bin Laden - AND HAD BEEN SINCE BEFORE 9/11 - and he would, no doubt, give those weapons of MASS destruction to Osama to use against US if we didn't immediately invade conquer and occupy Iraq. Bush scared the sheeple with lies. And to this day, republicans continue to deny that fact. Sad.

Here's the overarching fact son. Years BEFORE Bush came to DC, and during his first 3yrs in office for that matter, the democrats scared us by repeatedly telling us there was an absolute certainty that Saddam had weapons of MASS destruction. They talked about mushroom clouds and told us with absolute certainty that not only did Saddam have these enormous stockpiles of weapons of MASS destruction but that he would probably use them.


"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
--Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
--Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by:
-- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
-Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
-- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by:
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them."
-- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
-- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do"
-- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
-- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

 

[Faun]

Well you're obviously misinformed. A small nuclear device, easily transportable, is quite capable of creating a mushroom cloud over an American city and that was one of the things sadam was trying to aquire, but that's irelevent. Sadam showed he had the ability to lauch missles into neighboring nations, such as Israel, so what would stop him from creating a mushroom cloud over an allie's city? Furthermore, though the shelf life on a chemical agent, ONCE MIXED, is relatively short, such as 5yrs for some agents, the chemical compounds needed to produce them are easily available, easily stockpiled and eaisly stored for long periods of time, meaning since we KNOW he used them as late as 1991, there was a better than even chance of him still retaining these compounds 10yrs later. We also KNOW that sadam started a Biological Weapons program in the 80's and these types of weapon payloads often times have shlf lives of decades and longer. We KNOW that as late as 91 the sadam government had weaponized 6,000 liters of B. anthracis spores and 12,000 liters of botulinum toxin in aerial bombs, rockets, and missile warheads that were deployed but never used. The Mukhabarat was know to have continued research and developement of biological weapons up till the late 90's and beyond into the early part of the new century.

Again and again and again. Dubya himself admitted that the primary reason for invading Iraq was to disarm him of his WMD's, but HE DIDN'T HAVE ANY. The lie about WMD's and the lie about an Al Qaeda connection were both necessary to scare the American sheeple into supporting a war against Iraq.

Well, maybe like so many of his fellow Americans, you know like the idiots that voted for obama twice, he was duped by the slick words and lies of the democratic party, words they spouted even as late as 2002-2003.

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by:
Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by:
Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them."
Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do"
Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

Guess Bush was too stupid to know that liberal democrats are liars and should never be trusted.

Umm, which of those Democrats had access to the full 96 page classified NIE that Bush had?

 

[editec]

What I find frustrating is the left's constant denial that every prominent democrat spoke out about saddam having WMD's and how he had to be stopped.

And that over 100 democrats in congress, including Obama's vice president and former and present secretary of state, voted for the Iraq war.

I'm completely on board with that sentiment, Misty.

Fucking weaklings in the DEM party ought to be removed from office.

Senator Byrd stood up like a true Dem when this issue was in the news.

And believe me when I say I never ever thought I'd think of Byrd as one of the GOOD GUYS in the D party.

But there he was..a voice of sanity in a sea of madness.

 

[zeke]

So whats up with the fact that the Dems voted along with Bush.

Are you saying that Bush was lying and the Dems were lying to?

Are you saying that IF the Dems hadn't bought the lie, that the war wouldn't have happened?

Are you saying that Bush thought he was telling the truth and that the Dems knew he was lying, so they went along to hurt Bush.

Are you saying that the Dem politicians were so scared after 9/11, that they were afraid they wouldn't be re elected if Bush was right and they were wrong about Saddam. So they went along to get along?

Are you saying the CIC had to have the Dems on board to go to war?

Are you saying that the Dems are the ones to drive Bush to going to war.

WTF are you all saying when you bring up the Dems who went along? That they were stupid and wrong? Or that Bush was stupid and wrong?

Somewhere there has to be a reason that you all think the Dems, who were followers in this debacle, were somehow responsible for the decisions of the CIC and his hench men.

 

[expatriate]

This topic always seems to devolve into minutia. Like arguing for days about how many angels can dnance on the head of a pin. The overarching fact is: Team Dubya scared us by telling us there was an absolute certainty that Saddam had weapons of MASS destruction. They talked about mushroom clouds and yellowcake and told us with absolute certainty that not only did Saddam have these enormous stockpiles of weapons of MASS destruction, but that he was in cahoots with Osama bin Laden - AND HAD BEEN SINCE BEFORE 9/11 - and he would, no doubt, give those weapons of MASS destruction to Osama to use against US if we didn't immediately invade conquer and occupy Iraq. Bush scared the sheeple with lies. And to this day, republicans continue to deny that fact. Sad.

Here's the overarching fact son. Years BEFORE Bush came to DC, and during his first 3yrs in office for that matter, the democrats scared us by repeatedly telling us there was an absolute certainty that Saddam had weapons of MASS destruction. They talked about mushroom clouds and told us with absolute certainty that not only did Saddam have these enormous stockpiles of weapons of MASS destruction but that he would probably use them.


"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
--Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
--Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by:
-- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
-Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
-- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by:
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them."
-- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
-- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do"
-- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
-- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

::yawn::

It never ceases to amaze and amuse me how righties on the internet repatedly show what troglodytes they are when it comes to the wonderful, subtle nuances available to educated folks who really can use words and the english language like artists use paint. In contrast, righties can only use words like a house painter uses paint.

An experienced reader would quickly ascertain that only one of those many quotes from democrats actually DOES express absolute certainty that Saddam possessed stockpiles of WMD's.

To educated adults, words have meanings, not merely approximations of meaning. That difference is ONE of the reasons folks on opposite sides seem to be talking PAST each other instead of communicating WITH each other. For all intents and purposes, we speak two different languages

 

[Truthmatters]

The dems were backing a move to protect the country and made that decision on a stack of lies they were given by the then president of the US.


Yes they made the wrong decision but post 911 was a pretty scary time for most Americans.

They were lied to just like we were

 

[expatriate]

And I also am amazed that jtpr312 felt compelled to spam the board with identical lengthy cut and paste jobs in consecutive posts. I see moronic American tourists like him walking the streets of my town all the time. They ask a native a question in English, and when they are met with an incomprehending stare, they simply repeat themselves... usually at a higher volume. I expect jtpr312 to use a larger font next time.

 

[Mac1958]

And I also am amazed that jtpr312 felt compelled to spam the board with identical lengthy cut and paste jobs in consecutive posts. I see moronic American tourists like him walking the streets of my town all the time. They ask a native a question in English, and when they are met with an incomprehending stare, they simply repeat themselves... usually at a higher volume. I expect jtpr312 to use a larger font next time.

They're not trying to convince you.

They're trying to convince themselves.

.

 

[jtpr312]

Again and again and again. Dubya himself admitted that the primary reason for invading Iraq was to disarm him of his WMD's, but HE DIDN'T HAVE ANY. The lie about WMD's and the lie about an Al Qaeda connection were both necessary to scare the American sheeple into supporting a war against Iraq.

Well, maybe like so many of his fellow Americans, you know like the idiots that voted for obama twice, he was duped by the slick words and lies of the democratic party, words they spouted even as late as 2002-2003.

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by:
Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by:
Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them."
Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do"
Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

Guess Bush was too stupid to know that liberal democrats are liars and should never be trusted.

Umm, which of those Democrats had access to the full 96 page classified NIE that Bush had?

You're kidding right? Most of these democrats had access to ALL the intelligence available. You do understand that Bill Clinton WAS THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, right? You do know Madeleine Albright Sectratary of State right? You do know that Pelosi was a member of the House Intelligence Committee right? You do know that Sandy Berger was the NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISON right? You do know that Sen Bob Graham was a 10yr member of the Senate Intelligence committee right? You do know that Sen Hillary Clinton was married to THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, right? Piss off dude, it's obvious you get your information from Chris Matthews, Kieth Oberlman or Racheal Madcow. It would be a good idea to actually research a subjectbefore you bloviate on that subject. You also do know that the NIE you're speaking of came out in Oct 02 right? These dems where warning aobut he weapons they KNEW sadam had WMD's throughout the 90's and after.