Why don't people understand that this argument is already lost?

[TyroneSlothrop]

What liberals hate is double talking conservatives who say they don't want the government making personal decisions on their behalf, telling women that they must have a baby.

Yeah, and we get up all in your face and say women can't kill a newborn, too. Or a five year old. Or a ten year old. Or a Dragonlady.

We're such intrusive busy bodies!

a fetus an embryo is not a baby

 

[PaintMyHouse]

People should pay for their birth control. And their employer DAMN SURE shouldn't have to pay for it.

they should not pay for Viagra then either right ?

For gawd sakes man NO

One thing to keep in mind, as a capitalist I'd pay for birth control all day long. Pregnancy and babies are damned expensive. Happily married men and mothers do not knock out the work of others.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

TNHarley is a "hardliner" so to speak on not paying for Viagra ..,.its a damn joke attempt

 

[hazlnut]

20 Tips for Your First Abortion

Yeah. The argument is now that women should just say fuck it and go for it it because the money raising their kids would have costed is better spent on Beyonce tickets. We're not going to sway a public that thinks like that. The best we can do is go the way our abolitionist forefathers did and protect whom we can. We can't save the unborn but we can get the born the hell away from these "people," whether that means going through foster care or child protective services. No child deserves to be raised by parents who are incapable of loving them.

No child deserves to be raised in an orphanage, either. That's why I am pro-choice.

I'm anti-abortion, with the exception for the life of the Mother and in cases of rape and incest. I don't think abortion should be used as means of contraception.

And just what makes a rape or incest conception less worthy of life?

The notion that God creates life and every rape and act of incest is an "act of god" is the fridge right christian belief behind the total ban on all abortions.

God and God's grace has nothing to do with rape or incest (rape of a child by a parent) -- this is man's self-will run riot. Thus those babies are not part of God's plan.


And it's not about "worth" it's about quality. What kind of life will an unwanted child have -- or the child of an addict or mentally ill person. What kind of life will a severely deformed child have?

Not every person is meant to be a parent. And not every baby conceived is meant to be born.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

20 Tips for Your First Abortion

Yeah. The argument is now that women should just say fuck it and go for it it because the money raising their kids would have costed is better spent on Beyonce tickets. We're not going to sway a public that thinks like that. The best we can do is go the way our abolitionist forefathers did and protect whom we can. We can't save the unborn but we can get the born the hell away from these "people," whether that means going through foster care or child protective services. No child deserves to be raised by parents who are incapable of loving them.

No child deserves to be raised in an orphanage, either. That's why I am pro-choice.

I'm anti-abortion, with the exception for the life of the Mother and in cases of rape and incest. I don't think abortion should be used as means of contraception.

And just what makes a rape or incest conception less worthy of life?

The notion that God creates life and every rape and act of incest is an "act of god" is the fridge right christian belief behind the total ban on all abortions.

God and God's grace has nothing to do with rape or incest (rape of a child by a parent) -- this is man's self-will run riot. Thus those babies are not part of God's plan.


And it's not about "worth" it's about quality. What kind of life will an unwanted child have -- or the child of an addict or mentally ill person. What kind of life will a severely deformed child have?

Not every person is meant to be a parent. And not every baby conceived is meant to be born.

Hmmm, not so Pro-Life then eh?

 

[Unkotare]

The best way to decrease the number of abortions is to make it easier for a woman to care for their child and to stop demonizing single mothers. That involves creating support systems and programs to assist in the raising of these children, and being kind to the child and mother. Those are, of course, anathema to the people in this country who most want to end abortion..

That last bit of partisanship is, of course, nonsense.

 

[Unkotare]

20 Tips for Your First Abortion

Yeah. The argument is now that women should just say fuck it and go for it it because the money raising their kids would have costed is better spent on Beyonce tickets. We're not going to sway a public that thinks like that. The best we can do is go the way our abolitionist forefathers did and protect whom we can. We can't save the unborn but we can get the born the hell away from these "people," whether that means going through foster care or child protective services. No child deserves to be raised by parents who are incapable of loving them.

No child deserves to be raised in an orphanage, either. That's why I am pro-choice.

I'm anti-abortion, with the exception for the life of the Mother and in cases of rape and incest. I don't think abortion should be used as means of contraception.

And just what makes a rape or incest conception less worthy of life?

The notion that God creates life and every rape and act of incest is an "act of god" is the fridge right christian belief behind the total ban on all abortions.

God and God's grace has nothing to do with rape or incest (rape of a child by a parent) -- this is man's self-will run riot. Thus those babies are not part of God's plan.


And it's not about "worth" it's about quality. What kind of life will an unwanted child have -- or the child of an addict or mentally ill person. What kind of life will a severely deformed child have?

Not every person is meant to be a parent. And not every baby conceived is meant to be born.

Who the fuck are you to say perfectly innocent life doesn't deserve to be?

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

I'm pro-choice because our own personal matters, particularly those concerning our bodies, are none of the government's damn business.

 

[TheOldSchool]

The best way to decrease the number of abortions is to make it easier for a woman to care for their child and to stop demonizing single mothers. That involves creating support systems and programs to assist in the raising of these children, and being kind to the child and mother. Those are, of course, anathema to the people in this country who most want to end abortion..

That last bit of partisanship is, of course, nonsense.

You didn't see how hostile Randall Flagg was to the idea? He's the type I'm talking about.

 

[hazlnut]

20 Tips for Your First Abortion

Yeah. The argument is now that women should just say fuck it and go for it it because the money raising their kids would have costed is better spent on Beyonce tickets. We're not going to sway a public that thinks like that. The best we can do is go the way our abolitionist forefathers did and protect whom we can. We can't save the unborn but we can get the born the hell away from these "people," whether that means going through foster care or child protective services. No child deserves to be raised by parents who are incapable of loving them.

All the tips are great.

Abortion is a private sadness.

No woman should have to pay for one or feel ashamed in anyway.

Shaming a woman who has an abortion is the same as shaming the parents of a down syndrome child. Both are brave choices.

 

[Dragonlady]

There are 100,000 kids going into the foster care system each year who will never be adopted. You're proposing adding up to a million more to that number.

20 Tips for Your First Abortion

Yeah. The argument is now that women should just say fuck it and go for it it because the money raising their kids would have costed is better spent on Beyonce tickets. We're not going to sway a public that thinks like that. The best we can do is go the way our abolitionist forefathers did and protect whom we can. We can't save the unborn but we can get the born the hell away from these "people," whether that means going through foster care or child protective services. No child deserves to be raised by parents who are incapable of loving them.

It's worse than that. The libs went mental because the singer Adele said motherhood made her feel complete.

They don't want women to have babies at all.

Bullshit. I am sick and tired of conservatives telling me that liberals hate babies. It's a flat out lie.

What liberals hate is double talking conservatives who say they don't want the government making personal decisions on their behalf, telling women that they must have a baby. No decision is more personal. The idea that a woman should have a baby as some kind of punishment for immoral behaviour just boggles the mind, especially given that unwanted children have a higher dropout rate, and a higher rate of juvenile delinquency. If someone doesn't want to have a baby, don't force them to have a baby.

And you can't say you'd make an exception for rape or incest. Then it becomes even more obvious that you are simply punishing poor women for have sex.

"There are 100,000 kids going into the foster care system each year who will never be adopted. You're proposing adding up to a million more to that number."

So the solution is? To abort them?[/QUOTE]

The solution is to provide proper support for the families of the working poor. Health care, paid maternity leave and job security for pregnant women (like the rest of the civilized world), subsidized day care, more money being spent on students in inner city schools, more recreation centres in poor neighbourhoods.

If the US stopped villifying the poor and started providing much needed resources for poor families, they would be more inclined to have the baby, and be able to afford to raise it with the supports available. Like in every other first world country where abortion is fully legal.

Fully 80% of all women who have abortions, do so for financial reasons, and they are living either below the poverty line, or with income of less than 100% above the poverty line. Unlike the Republican myth that women who get abortions are single wanton women who don't want the party to end, over half of the women are married or in a committed relationship, and most already have one or more children. Without any mandated protections, these women are in danger of losing their low wage jobs the moment their employer finds out they're pregnant.

Last but certainly not least, insist that all high-school student receive sex education, including STD's and birth control, and that parents cannot pull their kids from receiving this important information. Children need to know and understand their own biology, and how it works. That's just basic human health. Also, in accord with the rest of the civilized world, all of which has a much lower rate of abortion than does the US.

 

[Unkotare]

The History Place - Rise of Hitler: The 25 Points of Hitler's Nazi Party
Don't confuse thoughtful people who can think beyond the end of their noses with Nazi's. While I agree with Lucy that abortion shouldn't be used as a primary means of contraception, shit happens, and if the parent(s) realize they cannot take financial or emotional responsibility for bringing a life into the world, it is responsible to terminate that pregnancy. There aren't enough orphanages or enough foster/adoptive parents in the world to take care of the kids we already have in state custody.
Pro-choice supporters aren't Nazi's, anymore than Trump supporters are Nazi's. We have all become much too quick to fling around dramatic terms with no basis in fact.

Killing the most innocent and vulnerable among us is "responsible"? WTF?

The whole point is that abortion is not "killing the most innocent and vulnerable among us". .

You know it is. It is moral cowardice and political dishonesty to refuse to recognize the matter at hand.

 

[Dragonlady]

The whole point is that abortion is not "killing the most innocent and vulnerable among us". The fetus is not "among us".

It most certainly is.

No it's not. Most of you aren't even aware of its existence. The vast majority of abortions take place in the first trimester, before anyone knows or suspects the woman is pregnant. It's really none of your business.

 

[Dovahkiin]

20 Tips for Your First Abortion

Yeah. The argument is now that women should just say fuck it and go for it it because the money raising their kids would have costed is better spent on Beyonce tickets. We're not going to sway a public that thinks like that. The best we can do is go the way our abolitionist forefathers did and protect whom we can. We can't save the unborn but we can get the born the hell away from these "people," whether that means going through foster care or child protective services. No child deserves to be raised by parents who are incapable of loving them.

It's true that kids should be removed from abusive parents, but you're going to have a hard time arguing that women seeking abortions should have their children taken away from them.

In the first place there's a law regarding patient-doctor privacy, meaning NOBODY is privy to why the patient was visiting the doctor.

Second, children's services agencies are overwhelmed with genuine abuse cases. There's a tremendous funding shortage, meaning no housing, food, clothing, special needs assistance, and so on. There also aren't enough foster parents to go around.

Like it or not, minding your own damn business and keeping your religion and politics out of a stranger's vagina is your only pragmatic choice.

It's funny, why aren't these pro lifers wanting to spend to stop the funding shortage? It's not a problem at all. Oh, they don't actually care, it's all political.

 

[Dovahkiin]

20 Tips for Your First Abortion

Yeah. The argument is now that women should just say fuck it and go for it it because the money raising their kids would have costed is better spent on Beyonce tickets. We're not going to sway a public that thinks like that. The best we can do is go the way our abolitionist forefathers did and protect whom we can. We can't save the unborn but we can get the born the hell away from these "people," whether that means going through foster care or child protective services. No child deserves to be raised by parents who are incapable of loving them.

No child deserves to be raised in an orphanage, either. That's why I am pro-choice.

An orphanage is worse than death?

Fetuses can comprehend death?

 

[JimBowie1958]

I could agree with that if we going to legalize it through second trimester. Deal?

Lol, how about 4 months, or better yet, when there are signs of brain activity? (late first trimester, I think.)

i just want to protect the little person that is in there with the same force of law as the rest of us.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Fetuses can comprehend death?

They have been videoed fighting away the abortionists knife, so they can feel pain.

 

[Iceweasel]

Fetuses can comprehend death?

Lots of elderly can't either. You'll pull the plug on grandma?

 

[Dovahkiin]

Fetuses can comprehend death?

Lots of elderly can't either. You'll pull the plug on grandma?

Completely different. At one point in an elderly persons life, they were conscious. Fetuses never experience consciousness. It's a self defense issue for me, I don't want a government forcing women to carry fetuses.

 

[Dovahkiin]

Fetuses can comprehend death?

They have been videoed fighting away the abortionists knife, so they can feel pain.

Literal bullshit.
Fetal Pain