Why I Could Never Be GOP or Libertarian

[G.T.]

Smartest person I ever met is a Conservative.

 

[Rustic]

Listening to everything the GOP and Libertarians have to say, I have to say I viamently disagree with the direction they want to take America. They are a very selfish group.

Paul Ryan, the father of a Republican budget initiative that seeks to destroy Medicare and Social Security has continually invoked the name of Ayn Rand as his philosophical mentor and guide. Many other Republicans have do so too. They are embracing a philosophy which, according to Ayn Rand herself, is one of selfishness and is against all forms of Spirituality. The question any thoughtful Americans must ask themselves is: “Is this the America we want?”

And how do they get evangelicals to go along with them is beyond me.

Its a very selfish every man for himself mentality.

And Libertarians don't believe in the Commons. What are the Commons?

The Commons are resources that are owned by all of us. That includes the Grand Canyon, oil rights, power companies, roads, public airwaves, schools, etc.

Here is how they think. Libertarians think if we all own the land on which our sheep graze, we will each add one too many sheep until we destroy the land for future generations. That We the People can't manage the commons.

Libertarians think that if one person owns the land and charged everyone else grazing fees, he would be more committed to preserving it for the future than a village of farmers.


I disagree.

As a libertarian, I can only respond by pointing out that you have a lot of misconceptions about libertarians. There's a distinct difference between rejecting coercive government and rejecting community action. In my experience, libertarians believe in community spirit, charity, and helping their fellow man more sincerely that most modern liberals. They simply don't believe it needs to be forced on us via coercive government programs.

Frankly, I find the liberal point of view deeply cynical, based on the tacit assumption that without government forcing it on us, we will turn our backs on those in need. I've heard it said that pretty much everyone starts with the base assumption that everyone else is like them. So people who are kind, charitable and forgiving assume the world will be likewise. Those who are less so, fear a world where people are free to be who they are. I couldn't take that as a blanket condemnation, because I know liberals who I believe are genuinely good people, but it does give me pause. What are you all so worried about?

Fact is, since the GOP made all their cuts to government programs that help the poor and since they implimented their unregulated free trade, more people have slipped into poverty. And charities and religion are proving they are not capable of handling or solving the growing problem. This is what our government is for.

This was written in 2007. This is why I laugh when Republicans try to suggest that Obama is at fault for the mess we are in.

Roll Back the Reagan Tax Cuts | Common Dreams

Since Bush has been president:

•over 5 million people have slipped into poverty;
•nearly 7 million Americans have lost their health insurance;
•median household income has gone down by nearly $1,300;
•three million manufacturing jobs have been lost;
•three million American workers have lost their pensions;
•home foreclosures are now the highest on record;
•the personal savings rate is below zero - which hasn't happened since the great depression;
•the real earnings of college graduates have gone down by about 5% in the last few years;
•entry level wages for male and female high school graduates have fallen by over 3%;
•wages and salaries are now at the lowest share of GDP since 1929.

How would you increase household income? - Increase take home pay. Lower taxes. Personal savings is a choice. If people are losing money paycheck to paycheck on living essentials, then that is problem. If people are spending their money on non-essentials and not saving, how is their choice my problem? As for real earnings of college graduates has declined by 5%, maybe colleges need to push and focus its students in areas of study where there is a demand in jobs. Get the degree in Computer Science and take Women's Studies courses as a minor; not the inverse.

Finally, as for manufacturing jobs, it is too easy to say that the reason jobs have been lost due to greediness of C-Levels who ship these jobs overseas. If China, India, and other cheap labor countries had the same corporate tax rate, same labor laws, same legal liability levels, and same government regulations, then the C-Level greediness mantra might work.

His only answer is like any socialist, Robin Hood.
Taking and giving, never works long term... Lol

 

[9aces]

I want to hear from middle class and poor Ron Paul supporters. I want to hear how they think they will benefit from an every man for himself society. From what I can tell his approach would produce a small upper class and the middle class will become the working poor.

People don't realize it was liberal labor laws, FDR New Deal, tariffs and unions that produced the huge middle class we enjoyed for the last 50 years. It wasn't unregulated free trade. Unregulated Free trade sent 7 million good paying jobs out of the country because we make too much. And Ron Paul wants to double down on the idea? He and Paul Ryan are no different. Bad for America. Not the top 1% but the rest of us, BAD.

The funny thing is that poor and working class, even middle class, Americans do not live in an every man for himself society. They benefit from all kinds of public programs, like tax breaks for sending their kids to college, like tax breaks for even having kids. All kinds of public and social programs. Parks, roads and highways, free public schools--the list goes on and on and on. They don't even have a clue what it would be like to actually live in an every man for himself society. The wouldn't want to do it if they realized what it was like. But they don't think about it deeply enough to realize what it would be like.

I agree. What the Republicans do is use big government as a boogeyman to tell middle class and poor people that a big bloated government is why they're not doing well. And there is some truth to that. our government is too big and the debt is too big but that doesn't mean I want to move the country towards a libertarian style economic system where winner takes all and every man for himself and dog eat dog I know that won't work for the most of us even if it might work for me it's not the right thing to do but I can understand greedy or ignorant people thinking it would be the right thing to do.

I have a friend who wants to do away with all these government programs yet when his father died when he was a child his mother basically rode the government's back until he was 18 years old and the schmuck doesn't realize it

You obviously haven't been paying the least bit of attention. You think the libertarian style system is winner takes all and what we have today isn't?

Look around you.

Personal...responsibility. The foundation upon which the libertarian ideal is built, upon what it all rests....is not here now. You, like all liberals it seems fail to understand the difference between self-interest...and greed. Personal responsibility and greed are poor handmaidens.

 

[9aces]

totall bull shit ...

Ya, career politicians are saints...
Lol

I don't find any problem with a career politician if they are doing the job you want thats fine with me... if you don't like a career politician vote them out ... it can happen ... and yes they are saints...

Ha, ha, Saints??
There is no lower life form than a career politician, they are the poster child for corruption...
See the Clintons

thats and opinion not reality

are you that stupid? Do you think the Clintons became multi millionaires on their government paychecks?

They became multi-millionaires by peddling government influence. So yes.

Or are you going to argue it's because of the successful businesses they run...oh wait.

The fantastic product they invented....oh wait.

They are the worst of the worst, who leave destruction and death in their wake.

 

[9aces]

Did you know self made men are much more charitable than people who were born into it?

first thing there is no such thing as a self made man ... how ever there are such of a thing as a hard working man...

This true, but lack of single term limits are a large part of what has made federal government absolutely corrupt...

are you nuts??? really ...are you??? federal government absolutely corrupt/ really??

The OP is nothing but dem/lib talking points and lies. not a speck of truth in it.

Yes, there is corruption in the federal government. Senators and congressmen are getting obscenely rich by taking legal bribes from lobbyists and special interests

Who do the lobbyists represent? Poor people?

The middle class has one lobby. Unions. How many lobbyists do you got? And who are they looking out for? Me? You?

You're a fool.

Unions look out for union administration bosses. No one else. The only care they give the union members is as much as is necessary to keep them rich and powerful.

There's neither debate or question why some of the worst criminals have been discovered...as union leaders.

 

[9aces]

Worst of all... A socialist and a career politician.
A pile of bat shit crazy...

He's definitely bat shit crazy, but one of the few people in DC I respect. Because he lives his beliefs. He's one of the poorest congressional members, certainly the poorest who has been there for many years.

 

[9aces]

Listening to everything the GOP and Libertarians have to say, I have to say I viamently disagree with the direction they want to take America. They are a very selfish group.

Paul Ryan, the father of a Republican budget initiative that seeks to destroy Medicare and Social Security has continually invoked the name of Ayn Rand as his philosophical mentor and guide. Many other Republicans have do so too. They are embracing a philosophy which, according to Ayn Rand herself, is one of selfishness and is against all forms of Spirituality. The question any thoughtful Americans must ask themselves is: “Is this the America we want?”

And how do they get evangelicals to go along with them is beyond me.

Its a very selfish every man for himself mentality.

And Libertarians don't believe in the Commons. What are the Commons?

The Commons are resources that are owned by all of us. That includes the Grand Canyon, oil rights, power companies, roads, public airwaves, schools, etc.

Here is how they think. Libertarians think if we all own the land on which our sheep graze, we will each add one too many sheep until we destroy the land for future generations. That We the People can't manage the commons.

Libertarians think that if one person owns the land and charged everyone else grazing fees, he would be more committed to preserving it for the future than a village of farmers.


I disagree.

As a libertarian, I can only respond by pointing out that you have a lot of misconceptions about libertarians. There's a distinct difference between rejecting coercive government and rejecting community action. In my experience, libertarians believe in community spirit, charity, and helping their fellow man more sincerely that most modern liberals. They simply don't believe it needs to be forced on us via coercive government programs.

Frankly, I find the liberal point of view deeply cynical, based on the tacit assumption that without government forcing it on us, we will turn our backs on those in need. I've heard it said that pretty much everyone starts with the base assumption that everyone else is like them. So people who are kind, charitable and forgiving assume the world will be likewise. Those who are less so, fear a world where people are free to be who they are. I couldn't take that as a blanket condemnation, because I know liberals who I believe are genuinely good people, but it does give me pause. What are you all so worried about?

Fact is, since the GOP made all their cuts to government programs that help the poor and since they implimented their unregulated free trade, more people have slipped into poverty. And charities and religion are proving they are not capable of handling or solving the growing problem. This is what our government is for.

This was written in 2007. This is why I laugh when Republicans try to suggest that Obama is at fault for the mess we are in.

Roll Back the Reagan Tax Cuts | Common Dreams

Since Bush has been president:

•over 5 million people have slipped into poverty;
•nearly 7 million Americans have lost their health insurance;
•median household income has gone down by nearly $1,300;
•three million manufacturing jobs have been lost;
•three million American workers have lost their pensions;
•home foreclosures are now the highest on record;
•the personal savings rate is below zero - which hasn't happened since the great depression;
•the real earnings of college graduates have gone down by about 5% in the last few years;
•entry level wages for male and female high school graduates have fallen by over 3%;
•wages and salaries are now at the lowest share of GDP since 1929.

How would you increase household income? - Increase take home pay. Lower taxes. Personal savings is a choice. If people are losing money paycheck to paycheck on living essentials, then that is problem. If people are spending their money on non-essentials and not saving, how is their choice my problem? As for real earnings of college graduates has declined by 5%, maybe colleges need to push and focus its students in areas of study where there is a demand in jobs. Get the degree in Computer Science and take Women's Studies courses as a minor; not the inverse.

Finally, as for manufacturing jobs, it is too easy to say that the reason jobs have been lost due to greediness of C-Levels who ship these jobs overseas. If China, India, and other cheap labor countries had the same corporate tax rate, same labor laws, same legal liability levels, and same government regulations, then the C-Level greediness mantra might work.

His only answer is like any socialist, Robin Hood.
Taking and giving, never works long term... Lol

Works fine till you run out of other people's money, then that society vanishes, in a spread of ruins and slaughter.

 

[billyerock1991]

I want to hear from middle class and poor Ron Paul supporters. I want to hear how they think they will benefit from an every man for himself society. From what I can tell his approach would produce a small upper class and the middle class will become the working poor.

People don't realize it was liberal labor laws, FDR New Deal, tariffs and unions that produced the huge middle class we enjoyed for the last 50 years. It wasn't unregulated free trade. Unregulated Free trade sent 7 million good paying jobs out of the country because we make too much. And Ron Paul wants to double down on the idea? He and Paul Ryan are no different. Bad for America. Not the top 1% but the rest of us, BAD.

The funny thing is that poor and working class, even middle class, Americans do not live in an every man for himself society. They benefit from all kinds of public programs, like tax breaks for sending their kids to college, like tax breaks for even having kids. All kinds of public and social programs. Parks, roads and highways, free public schools--the list goes on and on and on. They don't even have a clue what it would be like to actually live in an every man for himself society. The wouldn't want to do it if they realized what it was like. But they don't think about it deeply enough to realize what it would be like.

I agree. What the Republicans do is use big government as a boogeyman to tell middle class and poor people that a big bloated government is why they're not doing well. And there is some truth to that. our government is too big and the debt is too big but that doesn't mean I want to move the country towards a libertarian style economic system where winner takes all and every man for himself and dog eat dog I know that won't work for the most of us even if it might work for me it's not the right thing to do but I can understand greedy or ignorant people thinking it would be the right thing to do.

I have a friend who wants to do away with all these government programs yet when his father died when he was a child his mother basically rode the government's back until he was 18 years old and the schmuck doesn't realize it

What about the people that don't depend on government?? And don't want to?

there is no such things as nobody needing government help

 

[billyerock1991]

Smartest person I ever met is a Conservative.

yep like trump, perry, bobbie jindal, george bush yeah real bunch of conservative intellects

 

[G.T.]

Smartest person I ever met is a Conservative.

yep like trump, perry, bobbie jindal, george bush yeah real bunch of conservative intellects

No, nothing like them at all. A woman who took the world by the nuts and I admire, actually.

 

[billyerock1991]

Smartest person I ever met is a Conservative.

yep like trump, perry, bobbie jindal, george bush yeah real bunch of conservative intellects

No, nothing like them at all. A woman who took the world by the nuts and I admire, actually.

Oh you mean like Sarah Palin or Michele Bachmann y types ???then that woman couldn't be too bright if she became a conservative ... Oh tell us what brilliant thing has she done or are you just blowing smoke

 

[G.T.]

Smartest person I ever met is a Conservative.

yep like trump, perry, bobbie jindal, george bush yeah real bunch of conservative intellects

No, nothing like them at all. A woman who took the world by the nuts and I admire, actually.

Oh you mean like Sarah Palin or Michele Bachmann y types ???then that woman couldn't be too bright if she became a conservative ... Oh tell us what brilliant thing has she done or are you just blowing smoke

No, it isnt a famous person. Why are you flipping btw?

 

[billyerock1991]

This true, but lack of single term limits are a large part of what has made federal government absolutely corrupt...

are you nuts??? really ...are you??? federal government absolutely corrupt/ really??

The OP is nothing but dem/lib talking points and lies. not a speck of truth in it.

Yes, there is corruption in the federal government. Senators and congressmen are getting obscenely rich by taking legal bribes from lobbyists and special interests

Algore is a good example of getting rich from absolute corruption...

more bull shit ... you seem to like to put things out that has no factual bases to it ... tell us one corrupt thing he did in government ...

Him being a career politician is a corrupt act alone, no doubt paid by green/alternative energy lobbyists most of his career. Shown by his utter hipocrisy to this day.
Manbearpig is a POS, of the highest level.

you make these outrageous accusations that are based on your opinion ... if you look at their donators and if you see any kind of criminal activities then you have a case... the fact that you don't have any case against green companies or companies that support liberal or democrats causes, doesn't make them corrupt ... the fact that they don't have any corruption makes you angrey because they get elected and you can't stand that thought ... the people who donate to them aren't criminals, but in you tiny little mind they're out to get ya

 

[billyerock1991]

Smartest person I ever met is a Conservative.

yep like trump, perry, bobbie jindal, george bush yeah real bunch of conservative intellects

No, nothing like them at all. A woman who took the world by the nuts and I admire, actually.

Oh you mean like Sarah Palin or Michele Bachmann y types ???then that woman couldn't be too bright if she became a conservative ... Oh tell us what brilliant thing has she done or are you just blowing smoke

No, it isnt a famous person. Why are you flipping btw?

because there isn't a such of a thing as a
Smart Conservative

 

[Rustic]

I want to hear from middle class and poor Ron Paul supporters. I want to hear how they think they will benefit from an every man for himself society. From what I can tell his approach would produce a small upper class and the middle class will become the working poor.

People don't realize it was liberal labor laws, FDR New Deal, tariffs and unions that produced the huge middle class we enjoyed for the last 50 years. It wasn't unregulated free trade. Unregulated Free trade sent 7 million good paying jobs out of the country because we make too much. And Ron Paul wants to double down on the idea? He and Paul Ryan are no different. Bad for America. Not the top 1% but the rest of us, BAD.

The funny thing is that poor and working class, even middle class, Americans do not live in an every man for himself society. They benefit from all kinds of public programs, like tax breaks for sending their kids to college, like tax breaks for even having kids. All kinds of public and social programs. Parks, roads and highways, free public schools--the list goes on and on and on. They don't even have a clue what it would be like to actually live in an every man for himself society. The wouldn't want to do it if they realized what it was like. But they don't think about it deeply enough to realize what it would be like.

I agree. What the Republicans do is use big government as a boogeyman to tell middle class and poor people that a big bloated government is why they're not doing well. And there is some truth to that. our government is too big and the debt is too big but that doesn't mean I want to move the country towards a libertarian style economic system where winner takes all and every man for himself and dog eat dog I know that won't work for the most of us even if it might work for me it's not the right thing to do but I can understand greedy or ignorant people thinking it would be the right thing to do.

I have a friend who wants to do away with all these government programs yet when his father died when he was a child his mother basically rode the government's back until he was 18 years old and the schmuck doesn't realize it

What about the people that don't depend on government?? And don't want to?

there is no such things as nobody needing government help

Think again, you have backward thinking. It's not the government's money. Although they the career politicians think it is.
I know the federal government is no longer the people's, that doesn't mean anyone has to submit to them.
The military's approval of Barry is less than 15% and slipping every day, so we know the military would never back the nations politicians.

 

[Rustic]

are you nuts??? really ...are you??? federal government absolutely corrupt/ really??

The OP is nothing but dem/lib talking points and lies. not a speck of truth in it.

Yes, there is corruption in the federal government. Senators and congressmen are getting obscenely rich by taking legal bribes from lobbyists and special interests

Algore is a good example of getting rich from absolute corruption...

more bull shit ... you seem to like to put things out that has no factual bases to it ... tell us one corrupt thing he did in government ...

Him being a career politician is a corrupt act alone, no doubt paid by green/alternative energy lobbyists most of his career. Shown by his utter hipocrisy to this day.
Manbearpig is a POS, of the highest level.

you make these outrageous accusations that are based on your opinion ... if you look at their donators and if you see any kind of criminal activities then you have a case... the fact that you don't have any case against green companies or companies that support liberal or democrats causes, doesn't make them corrupt ... the fact that they don't have any corruption makes you angrey because they get elected and you can't stand that thought ... the people who donate to them aren't criminals, but in you tiny little mind they're out to get ya

The green lobby is just like any other, certainly not sacred. Dumbass
Lol

 

[Rustic]

 

[billyerock1991]

Worst of all... A socialist and a career politician.
A pile of bat shit crazy...

heres what cracks me up about your post ... heres a person who has been against big corporatrions and billionaires and you call him
"A pile of bat shit crazy" ... then we have Teddy Rosevelt who said the same things that Bernie says mean while you're trying to convince that term limits is a must ... then you post a picture of him saying he hates billionaires and hair stylist... and we're supposed to take you serious ... Bernie Sanders doesn't hate anyone never has ... but the fact that you haven't really listen to him speak tells me you haven't a clue ... what bernie sanders hates is this billionaires get huge tax cut they pay nothing to speak of ... hedge fun managers pay 15% on their taxes ... where you came here and complain about term limits causing corruption ??? thats funny ..you have a clue what life about

 

[Redfish]

what the libtards don't get is that when green energy becomes economically viable, the profit motive will kick in and there will be hundreds of successful companies engaged in it. As long as its a financial loser, the govt will continue to fuck it up.

 

[Redfish]

Worst of all... A socialist and a career politician.
A pile of bat shit crazy...

heres what cracks me up about your post ... heres a person who has been against big corporatrions and billionaires and you call him
"A pile of bat shit crazy" ... then we have Teddy Rosevelt who said the same things that Bernie says mean while you're trying to convince that term limits is a must ... then you post a picture of him saying he hates billionaires and hair stylist... and we're supposed to take you serious ... Bernie Sanders doesn't hate anyone never has ... but the fact that you haven't really listen to him speak tells me you haven't a clue ... what bernie sanders hates is this billionaires get huge tax cut they pay nothing to speak of ... hedge fun managers pay 15% on their taxes ... where you came here and complain about term limits causing corruption ??? thats funny ..you have a clue what life about

that post clearly demonstrates that you have no idea how the real world works, what Sanders stands for, or just about anything else.