Why is Building the Wall Wrong?

[Butch_Coolidge]

The subtext of the wall issue is the legal walls we've already put up to limit legal immigration. They are the problem. And, as is usually the case with bad law, such limits require a police state, complete with walled borders and spot id checks, to implement.

Before the 2006 border fence act, migrants climbed over existing fencing. After the 2006 fence act they either used a 12 foot ladder to go over the fence, walked around the fence or paid a trucker a 100 bucks to hide in the back of the truck. The only difference with the Trump wall is migrant will need a 20 foot ladder and the trucker will charge $150.

Those who don't have $150 will be kept out.

Let me see if you can be the first on this thread:

How come you want people from south of the border to be kept out?

Because they don't have $150?

They sometimes also are put into slavery by people who drive them over the border, are beaten, raped, and made to carry drugs by swallowing them or having them surgically implanted in their bodies. Their children are also abused. But many don’t care about children, as clearly demonstrated by illegals throwing rocks at border enforcement without regard for children, and using them as human shields. Then they cross wherever they can, and don’t know where they are going to stay, work, live, eat, etc. In other words, they are homeless. Obama had tons of them in camps that were not exactly nice accommodations. In other words, jail.


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[Slyhunter]

anchor babies collect federal benefits and give that money to their illegal immigrant parent.

So let's get rid of birthright citizenship. I see no justification for it. It would beat the hell out of a big dumb wall.

requires 2/3 majority of both houses in congress to change the 17th amendment. Or 2/3 of the states doing some legislature redo of the entire constitution.

So? At least then we'd have real consensus, and not just some slim partisan majority that will be reversed with the next election.

You're not going to get 2/3'ds consensus.

 

[Slyhunter]

If there was TRUE equality for all, those sneaking across from our southern border would not be treated differently than those who wait overseas to come here and wish to become citizens “legally” through our citizenship process under Federal Law.

Then you have those liberals who try to call those that believe in this particular point of view “racist”, which only goes to show how uninformed they are on the subject.

Most of those that are sneaking across our border, Mexicans, Hondurans, El Salvadorians, and Guatemalans have zero chance of immigrating through the normal process. After you reduce the established limits of immigration from these countries by the number living in US changing their status to legal residents, those immigrating that are sponsored by family members in the US, those receiving visas due to high skilled employment, and those receiving special dispensation such as the clergy and other special situations the only route left is applying for asylum or entering illegally. So no, it's not a matter of just waiting your turn because the chances are your turn will never come.

Because we don't want them here. We can't allow everyone who wants to come to America to come here. Not enough welfare to feed them all.

The only people talking about letting everyone into the country are conservatives that don't want anyone coming in.

Dblack is talking about letting everyone into the country.

No he's not. He's talking about letting everyone in unless there's a reason to keep them out - a reason besides the irrational fears of rednecks.

Easily explained why we need to not open the floodgates and let them all in.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The disagreement in Washington is not whether to secure the border or not but the most efficient and economically way to deal with illegal immigration.

If you really believe that, I have a bridge for sale if interested.

The disagreement is Democrats don't want any barrier that works the best and can't be removed.

If democrats welcomed illegal immigration or didn't want a barrier against, why would democrats support the 2006 Border Fence Act which authorized 700 hundred miles of reinforced fences and why would democrats in congress support a bill that doubled the size of the border patrol and why would Bill Clinton sign a law that denies federal funds to undocumented immigrants and why would Obama, remove 2.5 million illegal immigrants. I think your claims are based on supposition, not facts.

Oh yeah?

Then where is that 700 miles of border fence?

Why are they fighting so hard to keep their sanctuary cities and now states?

Why did they stop Kate's Law in the Senate when Democrats had leadership?

Why do they provide illegals with drivers licenses in their states and allow their kids to attend school?

LA Times

Court Deportations Drop 43 Percent in Past Five Years

Report: 42 percent of new Medicaid signups are immigrants, their children

The Democrats can't say they are for illegals, so they put on this dog and pony show for the sheep that can't see beyond their BS.

 

[sparky]

more evidence a penny of legislation would amount to a dollar of wall Ray......~S~

 

[Slyhunter]

The Dems say "experts" say the wall won't work. They need to name these so called experts or admit they're lying. Border Patrol, the actual experts on the border, say they want and need the wall to slow down illegals crossing the border.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The Dems say "experts" say the wall won't work. They need to name these so called experts or admit they're lying. Border Patrol, the actual experts on the border, say they want and need the wall to slow down illegals crossing the border.

When Trump addressed Piglosi and Shoemaker, he gave the stats of how successful our walls are working here and overseas. Neither Piglosi or Shoemaker ever challenged his facts because he got his stats from the Border Patrol.

The way I see it, if we had another 911 or worse and it was learned the terrorists came in from that southern border, Democrats would still insist we don't need a wall. Democrats never cared for our people. They only care about what advances their agenda like my signature states.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

It’s a waste of money . If the goal is to address illegal immigration, then that money is better spent in other ways .

More ins agents , more immigrantion courts , more judges . More enforcement vs companies who hire illegals . That’s a better use if the money .

Keep illegals from coming in without proper permission. We don’t need the rest. That’s better use of money. Less crime, less money spent to support non tax payers. And libs piss away more money for foreign aid, than is spent on legitimate tax paying citizens. The libs are just trying to block Don from keeping campaigning promises that will benefit our citizens and economy. They will give everything away for free, and raise taxes to pay for it.


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Facts to substantiate this?

You are calling people "illegals" before they come here. So, you reject the notion of innocent until proven guilty?

 

[Porter Rockwell]

The people and the government are not the same thing. Once again, you're making the same pitch as progressive statists. Does the irony ever occur to you?

Yes, the government is the people. We elect representatives to carry out our will. And don't try that "progressive" guilt trip on me. It is YOU that are on the side of progressives--not me.

No, it's like saying that I, and my neighbors, have the right to share our homes with whomever we please.

And we conservatives have the same right not to share our property with anybody.

I am struggling to understand your argument.

We elect representatives to carry out our will. When California opts to have Sanctuary Cities, I feel the people of California have spoken, don't you?

If the state of California cannot afford the people they bring in, then it becomes our business if the state of California is relying on federal funds to wine and dine their foreign guests. Then I'd have a dog in the fight. BTW, some of the things you presume may be the law where you live, but certainly not in every jurisdiction.

One of the most effective ploys by those attempting to vilify undocumented immigrants is to assert that those immigrants are stealing benefits from Americans. Donald Trump has deployed this falsehood over and over and has even promised a law to stop. The fact is there's already is law. In was passed in 1996.

Federal dollars for the following social services are expressed forbidden by federal law:

• Children’s Health Insurance (CHIP)
  
  
• Disability, aka Supplemental Security Income (SSI)
  
  
• Food stamps, aka The Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP)
  
  
• Health insurance, aka insurance via the Affordable Care Act (ACA)
  
  
• Medicaid
  
  
• Medicare
  
  
• Social Security
  
  
• Welfare

Not only are undocumented immigrants barred from these benefits, legal immigrants are also barred for 7 years.

Depending on the state federal dollars can be used for the following under certain circumstances:

• Emergency medical care, including ER visits and Emergency Medicaid
  
  
• Schooling
  
  
• Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants and Children (WIC)

In spite of the facts, there are a constant stream of claims of billion and hundreds of billions of dollars being spent on illegal immigrants. States can of course fund programs that benefit undocumented immigrants but they can't use federal dollars.

No, Undocumented Immigrants Aren't Stealing Your Benefits | HuffPost

They're not forbidden for their anchor babies and yes the government reimburses hospitals about 4 billion a year to treat illegal aliens. And what do you think it costs the country for jails, prisons, schooling, property damage in auto accidents, courts (State, local and federal). Then you have property theft, identity theft, murder, kidnapping, assault, rape and various other crimes, none are free to their victims. And the lists go on and on, 100 billion a year is a conservative estimate.

Oh I forgot border and interior law enforcement to round those suckers up, then it costs almost 12,000 each to deport them.

.

The first time I ever heard the allegation that the children of undocumented parents "cost" taxpayers, I went to the hospital and spoke to a woman quoted in the article used to prove the allegation.

The lady I spoke to was Paula Martin. Remember, I spoke to her in person, face to face. When presented with the article, she told me that the taxpayers do NOT reimburse the hospital for any INDIGENT patient. When those who hate the foreigners revised the story, they lied again. Instead of admitting this, the next time the right commented on it, they said:

"The Gwinnett (GA.) Hospital System expects more illegal immigrants will present themselves for urgent care this year and has established a $34 million reserve to cover its outlay."

The Social Contract - Illegal Aliens - The Health Cost Dimension

The $34 million dollar set aside is for INDIGENT patients, not undocumented foreigners. Do undocumented foreigners represent some of those? Yes, they do. But, there are people like the homeless and the downright lazy who avail themselves of this set aside. I have a worthless POS relative (by marriage) that is on the hook to that hospital for $54,000 right now.

So, how do the hospitals generate this $34 million dollars?

Most of the money is generated from uninsured people who pay for their services. And the bad part for those who don't like the undocumented, they pay into that amount as well. They do so because if they pay their income taxes via an Individual Tax Identification Number and keep their bills paid up, they are the first to be considered when amnesties roll around.

Additionally, the undocumented use the hospital for their primary care. And, as long as they pay on their bill, they can continue to use the hospital for routine services.

So, I know, for a fact, you're peddling a lie here. Why do you REALLY not want undocumented foreigners to come here?

 

[Porter Rockwell]

The success of getting over a border barrier depends on how well it's monitored. Barriers don't stop migrants, they only slow them down. The Southern California border wall had border patrol vehicles running less than 5 mins apart and were very successful. Around El Paeso they ran about 15 to 20 mins apart and there were a lots of crossings. What it really amounts to is the more guards you have monitoring the border, the more people you will apprehend.

When we learned of the Caravan and where they were heading, our military and border patrol erected make-shift walls to keep them out. They hurled rocks and bottles at our agents (because that's what nannies and gardeners do) and broke down the wall; not one ladder.

If they didn't create those temporary barriers, thousands and thousands would have entered this country and little to stop them. But because they did put those barriers up, they were able to get enough personnel there to stop and arrest those who broke through it.

How come you suppose those caravans showed up AFTER Obama left office?

Because they are not all that knowledgable of our politics. They do know "however" the role our MSM plays in politics, and expected that to be their free ticket. Look at how Trump had to cave when the MSM made phony reports how Trump was responsible for the separation of children from the adults (some claim were parents).

When the Caravan was half-way to the US, it was reported others were forming; into the millions. After Trump stopped the caravan, those others seemed to have disappeared. A strong enough deterrent works every time it's tried.

Did it dawn on you at any point that the caravans were financed by rich guys like Trump, Soros, and Murdoch? Are you really that naive that you don't know when they are playing you?

Soros maybe, it's the Cloward and Piven strategy, designed to collapse the system and the commies in congress are plying right into their hands.

.

If you actually read this thread, as opposed to popping in and out, we've already discussed the fact that Trump KNOWINGLY hires undocumented workers. IF he's gotten rid of them, it was just before he ran for president, but he's the kind of man you loathe and despise - you're just too ignorant to admit the truth about him.

BTW, Trump is a friend to globalist Rupert Murdoch, a board of director of the CFR. They speak on the phone on a regular basis. You still don't know when you've been had by the politicians.

Donald Trump talks to Rupert Murdoch every week to discuss strategy

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Yes, the government is the people. We elect representatives to carry out our will. And don't try that "progressive" guilt trip on me. It is YOU that are on the side of progressives--not me.

And we conservatives have the same right not to share our property with anybody.

I am struggling to understand your argument.

We elect representatives to carry out our will. When California opts to have Sanctuary Cities, I feel the people of California have spoken, don't you?

If the state of California cannot afford the people they bring in, then it becomes our business if the state of California is relying on federal funds to wine and dine their foreign guests. Then I'd have a dog in the fight. BTW, some of the things you presume may be the law where you live, but certainly not in every jurisdiction.

One of the most effective ploys by those attempting to vilify undocumented immigrants is to assert that those immigrants are stealing benefits from Americans. Donald Trump has deployed this falsehood over and over and has even promised a law to stop. The fact is there's already is law. In was passed in 1996.

Federal dollars for the following social services are expressed forbidden by federal law:

• Children’s Health Insurance (CHIP)
  
  
• Disability, aka Supplemental Security Income (SSI)
  
  
• Food stamps, aka The Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP)
  
  
• Health insurance, aka insurance via the Affordable Care Act (ACA)
  
  
• Medicaid
  
  
• Medicare
  
  
• Social Security
  
  
• Welfare

Not only are undocumented immigrants barred from these benefits, legal immigrants are also barred for 7 years.

Depending on the state federal dollars can be used for the following under certain circumstances:

• Emergency medical care, including ER visits and Emergency Medicaid
  
  
• Schooling
  
  
• Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants and Children (WIC)

In spite of the facts, there are a constant stream of claims of billion and hundreds of billions of dollars being spent on illegal immigrants. States can of course fund programs that benefit undocumented immigrants but they can't use federal dollars.

No, Undocumented Immigrants Aren't Stealing Your Benefits | HuffPost

They can have an anchor baby and collect those benefits for their kid, thus bypassing that problem.

Did you know there is no such thing as an anchor baby and the U.S. only gives benefits to the American born "citizen?" BTW, you know who passed the law that made those people citizens?

Hint: It was NOT the Democrats AND they did it illegally.

Wrong again, it was the courts that bastardized the 14th.

.

The 14th Amendment was illegally ratified and if ignorant people like you had stayed at home or got educated before you got in the fight, the patriot community was taking the 14th Amendment off the table. We could have won that issue over a decade ago.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Do you realize that the quoted section YOU cited says, quite unequivocally "as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit?"

Each individual state can admit who they want to admit within their boundaries. The federal government is limited:

"Congress shall have the power ... To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization." Article I Section 8 of the United States Constitution"

The feds have no jurisdiction in this issue unless and until the foreigner seeks citizenship.

Read all of it.

Article 1, Section 9, Clause 1

The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a Tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person.

.

You know me better than that. If you have something to say, spit it out. Don't expect me to do your work for you.

I've said enough to prove you're nothing but a long winded troll and only took 3 short posts.

.

As usual, you like to play mind games, prove nothing and make accusations that sound more like projection. I don't speak cryptic and if you see a troll, it's the one you see in your mirror.

Do you have anything relevant to say about this subject OR are you just trying to prove that nobody can out - troll you?

Maybe you should have an adult explain my responses to your ridiculous rants. A constitutional amendment to give congress the power over immigration, indeed. ROFLMFAO

.

That criticism was a blatant lie. Do you have ANY capacity for the truth?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The people and the government are not the same thing. Once again, you're making the same pitch as progressive statists. Does the irony ever occur to you?

Yes, the government is the people. We elect representatives to carry out our will. And don't try that "progressive" guilt trip on me. It is YOU that are on the side of progressives--not me.

No, it's like saying that I, and my neighbors, have the right to share our homes with whomever we please.

And we conservatives have the same right not to share our property with anybody.

I am struggling to understand your argument.

We elect representatives to carry out our will. When California opts to have Sanctuary Cities, I feel the people of California have spoken, don't you?

If the state of California cannot afford the people they bring in, then it becomes our business if the state of California is relying on federal funds to wine and dine their foreign guests. Then I'd have a dog in the fight. BTW, some of the things you presume may be the law where you live, but certainly not in every jurisdiction.

One of the most effective ploys by those attempting to vilify undocumented immigrants is to assert that those immigrants are stealing benefits from Americans. Donald Trump has deployed this falsehood over and over and has even promised a law to stop. The fact is there's already is law. In was passed in 1996.

Federal dollars for the following social services are expressed forbidden by federal law:

• Children’s Health Insurance (CHIP)
  
  
• Disability, aka Supplemental Security Income (SSI)
  
  
• Food stamps, aka The Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP)
  
  
• Health insurance, aka insurance via the Affordable Care Act (ACA)
  
  
• Medicaid
  
  
• Medicare
  
  
• Social Security
  
  
• Welfare

Not only are undocumented immigrants barred from these benefits, legal immigrants are also barred for 7 years.

Depending on the state federal dollars can be used for the following under certain circumstances:

• Emergency medical care, including ER visits and Emergency Medicaid
  
  
• Schooling
  
  
• Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants and Children (WIC)

In spite of the facts, there are a constant stream of claims of billion and hundreds of billions of dollars being spent on illegal immigrants. States can of course fund programs that benefit undocumented immigrants but they can't use federal dollars.

No, Undocumented Immigrants Aren't Stealing Your Benefits | HuffPost

They're not forbidden for their anchor babies and yes the government reimburses hospitals about 4 billion a year to treat illegal aliens. And what do you think it costs the country for jails, prisons, schooling, property damage in auto accidents, courts (State, local and federal). Then you have property theft, identity theft, murder, kidnapping, assault, rape and various other crimes, none are free to their victims. And the lists go on and on, 100 billion a year is a conservative estimate.

Oh I forgot border and interior law enforcement to round those suckers up, then it costs almost 12,000 each to deport them.

.

The first time I ever heard the allegation that the children of undocumented parents "cost" taxpayers, I went to the hospital and spoke to a woman quoted in the article used to prove the allegation.

The lady I spoke to was Paula Martin. Remember, I spoke to her in person, face to face. When presented with the article, she told me that the taxpayers do NOT reimburse the hospital for any INDIGENT patient. When those who hate the foreigners revised the story, they lied again. Instead of admitting this, the next time the right commented on it, they said:

"The Gwinnett (GA.) Hospital System expects more illegal immigrants will present themselves for urgent care this year and has established a $34 million reserve to cover its outlay."

The Social Contract - Illegal Aliens - The Health Cost Dimension

The $34 million dollar set aside is for INDIGENT patients, not undocumented foreigners. Do undocumented foreigners represent some of those? Yes, they do. But, there are people like the homeless and the downright lazy who avail themselves of this set aside. I have a worthless POS relative (by marriage) that is on the hook to that hospital for $54,000 right now.

So, how do the hospitals generate this $34 million dollars?

Most of the money is generated from uninsured people who pay for their services. And the bad part for those who don't like the undocumented, they pay into that amount as well. They do so because if they pay their income taxes via an Individual Tax Identification Number and keep their bills paid up, they are the first to be considered when amnesties roll around.

Additionally, the undocumented use the hospital for their primary care. And, as long as they pay on their bill, they can continue to use the hospital for routine services.

So, I know, for a fact, you're peddling a lie here. Why do you REALLY not want undocumented foreigners to come here?

How American Citizens Finance $18.5 Billion In Health Care For Unauthorized Immigrants

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

If it was about the freedoms to travel here, they would not be avoiding national check points that are established to get into this country.

Which brings us to the core problem: all the barriers we've put in place to prevent people from traveling here legally. The only valid reason for restricting entry is if the person in question represents a real threat. Mowing lawns for below minimum wage is not a 'threat'.

If you were to travel with the desire to live in Canada, would you be required to go through designated check points with a passport, or do you make it a point to go out of your way in avoiding them?

Not sure. I don't know what Canada's travel policies are. If I was desperate to make a living for my family, and if Canada had all the good jobs, and if Canada passed laws preventing me from working there legally - I suppose I'd avoid their check points.

First — site for me the specific law you’re “suggesting” that was passed by Congress, the year it took place, the president who signed it, that allowed illegals to work here “legally”.

Second your claim “all the barriers we've put in place to prevent people from traveling here legally.“ is incorrect. Let’s be crystal clear, if you are crossing the border to enter a country through Intentionally avoiding designated entry points, then you are NOT crossing the border “legally”. There hasn’t been provided any valid example to prove otherwise, because we are a nation of laws which includes customs laws and passports or work visas provided through the government for entry.

It’s not about your list of “IF’s” .... this is about government enforcement of Federal law passed through Congress and signed into law through executive signature. Each nation has their own laws surrounding border crossings and enforcement, and I have yet to see the opposition provide one valid argument on this thread.

I have used Canada as an example of how another nation enforces their border, which even DEBUNKS this notion that somehow it prevents an individual from freely crossing the border. Has allowing designated entry points through the use of passports, to aid in securing THEIR own border actually prevented an individual’s “ability to travel freely”? No. Such a claim is absurd to suggest, as there is no evidence of such. It the same as having certain designated entry points at our southern border.

Now with regard to encouraging illegals to come here, perhaps you are not aware of California TGREATENING companies which follow Federal laws in preventing illegals from reviving and maintaining employment.

California attorney general threatens $10,000 fine for businesses that share employee information with immigration agents

Unlike you, I have actually done the research on this subject surrounding illegal immigration. I have plenty more links and evidence to back up my point.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

The disagreement in Washington is not whether to secure the border or not but the most efficient and economically way to deal with illegal immigration.

If you really believe that, I have a bridge for sale if interested.

The disagreement is Democrats don't want any barrier that works the best and can't be removed.

If democrats welcomed illegal immigration or didn't want a barrier against, why would democrats support the 2006 Border Fence Act which authorized 700 hundred miles of reinforced fences and why would democrats in congress support a bill that doubled the size of the border patrol and why would Bill Clinton sign a law that denies federal funds to undocumented immigrants and why would Obama, remove 2.5 million illegal immigrants. I think your claims are based on supposition, not facts.

Oh yeah?

Then where is that 700 miles of border fence?

Why are they fighting so hard to keep their sanctuary cities and now states?

Why did they stop Kate's Law in the Senate when Democrats had leadership?

Why do they provide illegals with drivers licenses in their states and allow their kids to attend school?

LA Times

Court Deportations Drop 43 Percent in Past Five Years

Report: 42 percent of new Medicaid signups are immigrants, their children

The Democrats can't say they are for illegals, so they put on this dog and pony show for the sheep that can't see beyond their BS.

People sling numbers around like they were picked from air. Here is an article that disputes the numbers. But, might I remind you that radio commentators are claiming that $5 BILLION DOLLARS is a drop in the bucket of federal spending.

How Undocumented Immigrants Sometimes Receive Medicaid Treatment

Herein is the irony. Ray and those like him vehemently defend the 14th Amendment, yet the Courts have ruled that if you're born here you are a citizen - as per the 14th Amendment. The money he is bitching about is used to the benefit of what will be "legal" American citizens.

Ray, had your kind stayed out of the fight, patriots were busy getting rid of the 14th Amendment. Without it, this issue would have been taken off the table. So, what are you REALLY whining about?

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Yes, the government is the people. We elect representatives to carry out our will. And don't try that "progressive" guilt trip on me. It is YOU that are on the side of progressives--not me.

And we conservatives have the same right not to share our property with anybody.

I am struggling to understand your argument.

We elect representatives to carry out our will. When California opts to have Sanctuary Cities, I feel the people of California have spoken, don't you?

If the state of California cannot afford the people they bring in, then it becomes our business if the state of California is relying on federal funds to wine and dine their foreign guests. Then I'd have a dog in the fight. BTW, some of the things you presume may be the law where you live, but certainly not in every jurisdiction.

One of the most effective ploys by those attempting to vilify undocumented immigrants is to assert that those immigrants are stealing benefits from Americans. Donald Trump has deployed this falsehood over and over and has even promised a law to stop. The fact is there's already is law. In was passed in 1996.

Federal dollars for the following social services are expressed forbidden by federal law:

• Children’s Health Insurance (CHIP)
  
  
• Disability, aka Supplemental Security Income (SSI)
  
  
• Food stamps, aka The Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP)
  
  
• Health insurance, aka insurance via the Affordable Care Act (ACA)
  
  
• Medicaid
  
  
• Medicare
  
  
• Social Security
  
  
• Welfare

Not only are undocumented immigrants barred from these benefits, legal immigrants are also barred for 7 years.

Depending on the state federal dollars can be used for the following under certain circumstances:

• Emergency medical care, including ER visits and Emergency Medicaid
  
  
• Schooling
  
  
• Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants and Children (WIC)

In spite of the facts, there are a constant stream of claims of billion and hundreds of billions of dollars being spent on illegal immigrants. States can of course fund programs that benefit undocumented immigrants but they can't use federal dollars.

No, Undocumented Immigrants Aren't Stealing Your Benefits | HuffPost

They're not forbidden for their anchor babies and yes the government reimburses hospitals about 4 billion a year to treat illegal aliens. And what do you think it costs the country for jails, prisons, schooling, property damage in auto accidents, courts (State, local and federal). Then you have property theft, identity theft, murder, kidnapping, assault, rape and various other crimes, none are free to their victims. And the lists go on and on, 100 billion a year is a conservative estimate.

Oh I forgot border and interior law enforcement to round those suckers up, then it costs almost 12,000 each to deport them.

.

The first time I ever heard the allegation that the children of undocumented parents "cost" taxpayers, I went to the hospital and spoke to a woman quoted in the article used to prove the allegation.

The lady I spoke to was Paula Martin. Remember, I spoke to her in person, face to face. When presented with the article, she told me that the taxpayers do NOT reimburse the hospital for any INDIGENT patient. When those who hate the foreigners revised the story, they lied again. Instead of admitting this, the next time the right commented on it, they said:

"The Gwinnett (GA.) Hospital System expects more illegal immigrants will present themselves for urgent care this year and has established a $34 million reserve to cover its outlay."

The Social Contract - Illegal Aliens - The Health Cost Dimension

The $34 million dollar set aside is for INDIGENT patients, not undocumented foreigners. Do undocumented foreigners represent some of those? Yes, they do. But, there are people like the homeless and the downright lazy who avail themselves of this set aside. I have a worthless POS relative (by marriage) that is on the hook to that hospital for $54,000 right now.

So, how do the hospitals generate this $34 million dollars?

Most of the money is generated from uninsured people who pay for their services. And the bad part for those who don't like the undocumented, they pay into that amount as well. They do so because if they pay their income taxes via an Individual Tax Identification Number and keep their bills paid up, they are the first to be considered when amnesties roll around.

Additionally, the undocumented use the hospital for their primary care. And, as long as they pay on their bill, they can continue to use the hospital for routine services.

So, I know, for a fact, you're peddling a lie here. Why do you REALLY not want undocumented foreigners to come here?

How American Citizens Finance $18.5 Billion In Health Care For Unauthorized Immigrants

OMG, Ray. First you have an article that claims $2 Billion dollars. I find another that says $4 Billion dollars. Now we're up to $18.5 Billion dollars. Let me quote something from your article:

"Medicare DSH Payments. In a similar fashion, although the formula is much more complicated, Medicare also pays hospitals a DSH payment that effectively serves as a general subsidy to offset aggregate uncompensated care losses without making any distinction between uncompensated costs generated by unauthorized immigrants and those generated by American citizens or legal immigrants."

Translated into English, the general public is too stupid to understand the partisan figures so they devise "formulas" that we're not supposed to understand.

Instead of trying to enlighten me with these idiotic articles, see if you can spend your day finding out the truth.

Where do your Rights come from?

Do some research on your article and show me the amount those undocumented foreigners contribute to offset the alleged cost.

This is really idiotic Ray. There are a finite number of people here reading this. You guys that want a border wall parrot the trash that was put together by white supremacists. I'm not condemning you for that.

What I'm saying is that you cannot build your philosophy on lies to the point that you can no longer distinguish between reality and propaganda. Today, I'd like to see something NEW from you. You see, I'm more to the right than you because I am a constitutionalist.

When you bring debunked B.S. to the table every day, we cannot use it to persuade those who have stayed isolated from this issue and are just learning. When they do a little research, your facts don't hold up and if you're honest - ever since Trump has been put in charge, public opinion has swung left. No politician has jumped parties to be on Trump's side. Some office holders have left the Republican Party to become Democrats. The House of Representatives is indicative of the fact that what you're doing isn't working.

Can you answer my questions Ray? Can you tell us where you get your Rights from? Can you give us a legitimate reason you're so opposed to foreigners?

Don't try to pee down my neck and tell me it's raining. If it were an issue like the Medicare / Medicaid stuff, you will find it easier to make it harder for undocumented foreigners to get the benefits and privileges of citizenship rather than transform America into a third world socialist cesspool.

 

[my2¢]

As I hear Trump speak of people and think back to how he spoke of Hispanics during the campaign, I see the wall as a symbol of hate rather than an object of protection. If it happens, it happens. But I want nothing to do with it.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

The Dems say "experts" say the wall won't work. They need to name these so called experts or admit they're lying. Border Patrol, the actual experts on the border, say they want and need the wall to slow down illegals crossing the border.

There are people OTHER THAN Dems telling you the wall won't work. It won't work for us because we are unlike other nations.

It wont' work for us because the foreigners are coming here because we jobs and Americans WILLING to do business with them. That is not the case in other countries.

 

[danielpalos]

Mandatory.
Nationwide.
Federal Law.
Now.

Wall cowards gonna cower. "Protect me! I'm afraid! Of all the scary stories you've been telling me!"

You morons are turning our nation toward fascism.

Why don't you just move to a country that doesn't give a shit about freedom and loves authoritarian government as much as you do?

Tell us something, dumbass: why don't you stick your finger in a light socket? Are you afraid? Are you a light socket coward?

That's exactly how stupid your post sounds.

Why should I care about the freedom of illegal aliens?

Are you able to commit logic?

It's simply immoral to reward people who break our laws. It's simple as that.

.

break what laws? we don't have an immigration clause. we have a naturalization clause.

I've already proven you're a liar on that one. So run along child.

.

i resort to the fewest fallacies. there is no immigration clause in our federal Constitution. It is an establishment clause for naturalization.

 

[danielpalos]

These guys are so focused on their talking points that they can't see the forest for the trees.

I'm a laissez-faire kind of guy. The less government we have, the better things will work.

A lot of people think it's racism that's driving the wall nonsense, but when you push most of them it comes down to protectionism. They don't want to have to compete.

Controlling immigration is not protectionism, and, yes, I don't want to compete with labor willing to work for 1/3 the wage. Why should I? Do you actually want that? If you do, then you're a damn fool.

capitalism is supposed to be improving their standard of living. why rely on Government.