Why is naturalism considered scientific and creationism is not ?

[factotum]

Ahhh name calling (stupid seeming to be the most common term used). The rhetorical technique used when a person lacks either facts or logic to support their position. Though people do hold foolish beliefs. For example, because a majority of people believe something about the physical world, than that must be how the world works. For example, I would bet that at least 75% of the population thinks that, for all practical purposes, time on the space station, is the same as time down here.

More to the point. Since it is clear that not a single poster put forth the mental effort to actual do any research, let me suggest that you read this article. Assuming that its 2500 words requiring 15 min does not exceed your attention span Naturalism on wikipedia

As to why creationism is NOT science. Well, if the person raising this question understood what science was, they would know the answer. The concept of creationism can not possibly be shown to be false. Hence is it not a scientific theory. Depending on your concept of naturalism; that is, can the concept be made to stretch to cover anything that we might discover, than it is either science or not.

Suppose for example that careful experiments showed that in emergency rooms, people can "die", and be brought back, and demonstrate that they saw things for which we have no known explanation, such as a written message on a platform only 5 inches from the ceiling. (or .5in, or .05 in) Would that be something that would be considered "natural" or not? If so, why or why not? Obviously if it were to be considered natural than we have expanded our concept of what is natural to cover whatever we experience so naturalism can not be falsified. If the observation were considered to be supernatural, --- that is we can experience something when we 'die' and come back --- than naturalism can be falsified, and is thus scientific.

I hope that this answers most peoples questions.

 

[itfitzme]

"As to why creationism is NOT science. Well, if the person raising this question understood what science was, they would know the answer. The concept of creationism can not possibly be shown to be false. Hence is it not a scientific theory. Depending on your concept of naturalism; that is, can the concept be made to stretch to cover anything that we might discover, than it is either science or not. "

Not true.

Science proposes, and proves false, all sorts of things. By their very nature, any thing that cannot be proven true is no different than Creationism. It is very simple, yet has taken quite some time. We propose that Creationism is a fact. In order for it to be a fact, we define the operational definition. One significant part of the definition of Creationism is that the measure cannot be accounted for by any other explaination. We also define a reasonable level of confidence. This is typically 99%, though particle physics now uses something like 99.99999999% or better. Having done so, we try to prove Creationism true. Having exhausted all possibilities that can prove it true, it is summarily accepted as not true. That is how it works, that is science.

We may not like the answer, but, for all practical purposes, it is simply false. Plato tried. Copernicus tried. Newton tried. Einstein tried. Carl Sagan tried. Mankind has been trying since the dawn of man. And the null hypothesis has been rejected every time. At this point, the p-value is 0.99999999999999. If Creationism is true, it isn't true on this planet, on Mars, or at the far reaches of this solar system. Indeed, we have peered into the deep vastness of space, far back to the beginning of time, and nothing. Not in this universe. And, of all that, no other universe has been detected.

The difference is clear. Creationism is assuming it is true until proven false. By that standard, goblins and fairies, witches and ghosts, leprechauns and mermaids are true. Science is assuming it is false until it is proven true, to a reasonable level of confidence, that it can be proven again. Then it is true. Failing to prove it true falsifies it.

The standard for Creationism is a probability of occurance of zero. Science is a probability of occurance of .99999.

Science is internally consistent because, by the standards of science, science repeatedly proves its own validity. Creationism is internally consistent because, by the standards of Creationism, Creationism allows itself to be true. Science, by the standards of creationism, is true because it is allowed to be true. By Creationist standards, no proof is required. By the standards of science, Creationism is false.

Naturalism, science, has proven itself true every time, everywhere and always. Creationism has been proven false, rejected every time, everywhere and always. There is the physical world, measurable. And there is the mind of man, how he percieves that world, remembers it, and feels about it.

 

[LittleNipper]

God exists and there are many godly people around to demonstrate His existence. The spiritual is just as important as the material world if not more so.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Yes he was and he believes the historians were correct about the person Jesus. Early Christians many were Jews. If the Almighty exists I don't believe he will ever be on trial by man again.

What Laws has God handed down that he broke ?

Crimes against humanity charges against your imaginary God;

1. Murdering the innocent first born of Egypt in a fit of pique demonstrates a depraved indifference to human life.

2. Murdering innocent women and children in Soddom and Gommorrah demonstrates a depraved indifference to human life.

3. Drowning every living land dwelling human and animal on the planet except for a handful demonstrates a depraved indifference to all life.

4. Ordering the murders of pregnant women demonstrates a depraved indifference to human life and the "unborn" according to the "pro-life" movement.

All of the above violate his "thou shalt not kill" commandment. The hypocrisy of your imaginary God being allowed to be a multiple mass murderer and conspiring to murder makes him unfit to judge even the very worst of humans.

If my creator exists, he owns all that you can see,touch,feel,smell and that gives him the right to judge. Punishment that involves death by the creator is not murder. I guess man got even because they put him to death but not for a crime.

Once again the command is not thou shall not kill. The command is thou shall not commit murder.

So according to ywc's latest "justification" if a women "owns" the fetus that she "created" then she has every right to do whatever she wants with it, even after birth, and it isn't "murder".

Congratulations on turning your serial mass murdering "creator" into a hypocrite on top of everything else. You really don't know when to stop this hole of yours.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Is just a hobby then?

Is it not my right to free speech ?

If your house was burning down, and you were asleep in your home,would you appreciate it if some woke you up and alerted you that your house was on fire ?

Of course it's your right. And you make a good point; I can definitely understand how religious proselytizing can be motivated by compassion. But "hellfire and damnation" is a threat, and has traditionally been used to frighten people into submission. I'd have deep misgivings joining any religion that relied on such threats to win converts.

Sorry but you have me wrong. Some things in the bible are not literal. You have to study the scriptures to get the true meaning. My beliefs are that hell is nothing more than the grave where ever your body remains after death that is your grave. Hellfire and brimstone are just tools of death. People resurrected from death to be judged if they are guilty and are not granted everlasting life, then you're put to death, and this death is an everlasting death. Everything thrown in the lake of fire is just symbolism for they will never exist again.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Is just a hobby then?

Is it not my right to free speech ?

If your house was burning down, and you were asleep in your home,would you appreciate it if some woke you up and alerted you that your house was on fire ?

What a truly silly attempt at analogy.

Religionists waiting for their gawds to return, (or to appear), has been the cause for the vast majority of religions which have failed over time, and why your currently configured religion will eventually fail as well. There is no reason to believe that the Jesus will ever come back and as the decades roll onward and he doesn't return, your religion will fall further and further out of favor, just like the promises of Mithras are now dust.

At least who it was directed at it had a rational response. You however just expose your bias through rhetoric.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Ahhh name calling (stupid seeming to be the most common term used). The rhetorical technique used when a person lacks either facts or logic to support their position. Though people do hold foolish beliefs. For example, because a majority of people believe something about the physical world, than that must be how the world works. For example, I would bet that at least 75% of the population thinks that, for all practical purposes, time on the space station, is the same as time down here.

More to the point. Since it is clear that not a single poster put forth the mental effort to actual do any research, let me suggest that you read this article. Assuming that its 2500 words requiring 15 min does not exceed your attention span Naturalism on wikipedia

As to why creationism is NOT science. Well, if the person raising this question understood what science was, they would know the answer. The concept of creationism can not possibly be shown to be false. Hence is it not a scientific theory. Depending on your concept of naturalism; that is, can the concept be made to stretch to cover anything that we might discover, than it is either science or not.

Suppose for example that careful experiments showed that in emergency rooms, people can "die", and be brought back, and demonstrate that they saw things for which we have no known explanation, such as a written message on a platform only 5 inches from the ceiling. (or .5in, or .05 in) Would that be something that would be considered "natural" or not? If so, why or why not? Obviously if it were to be considered natural than we have expanded our concept of what is natural to cover whatever we experience so naturalism can not be falsified. If the observation were considered to be supernatural, --- that is we can experience something when we 'die' and come back --- than naturalism can be falsified, and is thus scientific.

I hope that this answers most peoples questions.

Science can show that all living organisms arose through naturalistic unguided processes if they do so then you can make a better argument for naturalism not rule out creation completely, Because it will have been shown through intelligence not a total natural process.

Both naturalism and creation can be falsifiable, and both can be proven false. I actually gave examples, and please don't say the person that asked the question is ignorant of science and the scientific method. My degree says otherwise.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Crimes against humanity charges against your imaginary God;

1. Murdering the innocent first born of Egypt in a fit of pique demonstrates a depraved indifference to human life.

2. Murdering innocent women and children in Soddom and Gommorrah demonstrates a depraved indifference to human life.

3. Drowning every living land dwelling human and animal on the planet except for a handful demonstrates a depraved indifference to all life.

4. Ordering the murders of pregnant women demonstrates a depraved indifference to human life and the "unborn" according to the "pro-life" movement.

All of the above violate his "thou shalt not kill" commandment. The hypocrisy of your imaginary God being allowed to be a multiple mass murderer and conspiring to murder makes him unfit to judge even the very worst of humans.

If my creator exists, he owns all that you can see,touch,feel,smell and that gives him the right to judge. Punishment that involves death by the creator is not murder. I guess man got even because they put him to death but not for a crime.

Once again the command is not thou shall not kill. The command is thou shall not commit murder.

So according to ywc's latest "justification" if a women "owns" the fetus that she "created" then she has every right to do whatever she wants with it, even after birth, and it isn't "murder".

Congratulations on turning your serial mass murdering "creator" into a hypocrite on top of everything else. You really don't know when to stop this hole of yours.

No, like it or not God owns everything and he was and is trying to give humanity the great moral life and we are fighting him on it. There will be no evil,and the horrible things we live with on a daily basis now.

 

[dblack]

If my creator exists, he owns all that you can see,touch,feel,smell and that gives him the right to judge. Punishment that involves death by the creator is not murder. I guess man got even because they put him to death but not for a crime.

Once again the command is not thou shall not kill. The command is thou shall not commit murder.

So according to ywc's latest "justification" if a women "owns" the fetus that she "created" then she has every right to do whatever she wants with it, even after birth, and it isn't "murder".

Congratulations on turning your serial mass murdering "creator" into a hypocrite on top of everything else. You really don't know when to stop this hole of yours.

No, like it or not God owns everything and he was and is trying to give humanity the great moral life and we are fighting him on it. There will be no evil,and the horrible things we live with on a daily basis now.

Like it or not, your god is nothing more (or less) than a construct in your mind, with no power to influence our fates, other than via the actions of believers. That's not an inconsiderable power, but it's not supernatural.

 

[Derideo_Te]

If my creator exists, he owns all that you can see,touch,feel,smell and that gives him the right to judge. Punishment that involves death by the creator is not murder. I guess man got even because they put him to death but not for a crime.

Once again the command is not thou shall not kill. The command is thou shall not commit murder.

So according to ywc's latest "justification" if a women "owns" the fetus that she "created" then she has every right to do whatever she wants with it, even after birth, and it isn't "murder".

Congratulations on turning your serial mass murdering "creator" into a hypocrite on top of everything else. You really don't know when to stop this hole of yours.

No, like it or not God owns everything and he was and is trying to give humanity the great moral life and we are fighting him on it. There will be no evil,and the horrible things we live with on a daily basis now.

Your mythical serial mass murdering "creator" does not own the title deed to the planet or the lives of anyone on it.

 

[Youwerecreated]

So according to ywc's latest "justification" if a women "owns" the fetus that she "created" then she has every right to do whatever she wants with it, even after birth, and it isn't "murder".

Congratulations on turning your serial mass murdering "creator" into a hypocrite on top of everything else. You really don't know when to stop this hole of yours.

No, like it or not God owns everything and he was and is trying to give humanity the great moral life and we are fighting him on it. There will be no evil,and the horrible things we live with on a daily basis now.

Like it or not, your god is nothing more (or less) than a construct in your mind, with no power to influence our fates, other than via the actions of believers. That's not an inconsiderable power, but it's not supernatural.

Time will tell.

 

[Youwerecreated]

So according to ywc's latest "justification" if a women "owns" the fetus that she "created" then she has every right to do whatever she wants with it, even after birth, and it isn't "murder".

Congratulations on turning your serial mass murdering "creator" into a hypocrite on top of everything else. You really don't know when to stop this hole of yours.

No, like it or not God owns everything and he was and is trying to give humanity the great moral life and we are fighting him on it. There will be no evil,and the horrible things we live with on a daily basis now.

Your mythical serial mass murdering "creator" does not own the title deed to the planet or the lives of anyone on it.

Some day you might get the chance to say to him what you say in this forum.

 

[Derideo_Te]

No, like it or not God owns everything and he was and is trying to give humanity the great moral life and we are fighting him on it. There will be no evil,and the horrible things we live with on a daily basis now.

Your mythical serial mass murdering "creator" does not own the title deed to the planet or the lives of anyone on it.

Some day you might get the chance to say to him what you say in this forum.

If that day ever comes I will welcome the opportunity to see your mythical "creator" apologize to the entire human race for all of the needless pain and suffering he has caused them. If he goes down on his bended knees and begs for my forgiveness I will consider it but only if he appears to be genuinely contrite.

 

[hobelim]

Your mythical serial mass murdering "creator" does not own the title deed to the planet or the lives of anyone on it.

Some day you might get the chance to say to him what you say in this forum.

If that day ever comes I will welcome the opportunity to see your mythical "creator" apologize to the entire human race for all of the needless pain and suffering he has caused them. If he goes down on his bended knees and begs for my forgiveness I will consider it but only if he appears to be genuinely contrite.

LOL... admirable work for an avowed atheist.

Any thoughts on the God of the Koran and his choice of a psychotic pedophile for the ultimate example of a holy life?

Any outrage on the pain and suffering caused by that mythical creator?

Any suggestions about what to do about all those insane religious fanatics out there other than to extol their virtues and defend their right to be insane?

 

[Youwerecreated]

Your mythical serial mass murdering "creator" does not own the title deed to the planet or the lives of anyone on it.

Some day you might get the chance to say to him what you say in this forum.

If that day ever comes I will welcome the opportunity to see your mythical "creator" apologize to the entire human race for all of the needless pain and suffering he has caused them. If he goes down on his bended knees and begs for my forgiveness I will consider it but only if he appears to be genuinely contrite.

Well he has already predicted how that will go but believe as you wish.

 

[Hollie]

Some day you might get the chance to say to him what you say in this forum.

If that day ever comes I will welcome the opportunity to see your mythical "creator" apologize to the entire human race for all of the needless pain and suffering he has caused them. If he goes down on his bended knees and begs for my forgiveness I will consider it but only if he appears to be genuinely contrite.

Well he has already predicted how that will go but believe as you wish.

There is no prediction made by "he". The authors (largely unknown), who wrote the various bibles are the ones who concocted those stories and fables

 

[Derideo_Te]

Some day you might get the chance to say to him what you say in this forum.

If that day ever comes I will welcome the opportunity to see your mythical "creator" apologize to the entire human race for all of the needless pain and suffering he has caused them. If he goes down on his bended knees and begs for my forgiveness I will consider it but only if he appears to be genuinely contrite.

Well he has already predicted how that will go but believe as you wish.

If the final outcome is a foregone conclusion then your mythical "creator" has already prejudged everyone before they were even "created' so the entire "judgment" premise is nothing but a complete farce. Thanks for exposing the utter fallacy of your "judgment" myth.

 

[Youwerecreated]

If that day ever comes I will welcome the opportunity to see your mythical "creator" apologize to the entire human race for all of the needless pain and suffering he has caused them. If he goes down on his bended knees and begs for my forgiveness I will consider it but only if he appears to be genuinely contrite.

Well he has already predicted how that will go but believe as you wish.

If the final outcome is a foregone conclusion then your mythical "creator" has already prejudged everyone before they were even "created' so the entire "judgment" premise is nothing but a complete farce. Thanks for exposing the utter fallacy of your "judgment" myth.

Nope everyone would have been judged before that day comes. It says that everyone whose name is not found in the book of life will be destroyed. After that final battle when all the ones that their names have not been written in the book of life are destroyed along will all the rebellious angels have been destroyed except for satan because he will be bound for the 1,000 year reign.

The resurrection will be of the ones receiving everlasting life and the ones that never had a chance to know Christ that have passed away. The others that never had a chance to know Christ will get that chance in the 1,000 year reign. Satan will be released for a very short time and the ones that never had a chance to know Christ and then fall error once satan is released for a very short time they and satan along with death will be cast in to the lake of fire total destruction and they will never come back from that.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Well he has already predicted how that will go but believe as you wish.

If the final outcome is a foregone conclusion then your mythical "creator" has already prejudged everyone before they were even "created' so the entire "judgment" premise is nothing but a complete farce. Thanks for exposing the utter fallacy of your "judgment" myth.

Nope everyone would have been judged before that day comes. It says that everyone whose name is not found in the book of life will be destroyed. After that final battle when all the ones that their names have not been written in the book of life are destroyed along will all the rebellious angels have been destroyed except for satan because he will be bound for the 1,000 year reign.

The resurrection will be of the ones receiving everlasting life that have passed away. The others that never had a chance to know Christ will get that chance in the 1,000 year reign. Satan will be released for a very short time and the ones that never had a chance to know Christ and then fall error once satan is released for a very short time they and satan along with death will be cast in to the lake of fire total destruction and they will never come back from that.

That swooshing sound you heard was my point going over your head at Mach 3.

 

[Youwerecreated]

If the final outcome is a foregone conclusion then your mythical "creator" has already prejudged everyone before they were even "created' so the entire "judgment" premise is nothing but a complete farce. Thanks for exposing the utter fallacy of your "judgment" myth.

Nope everyone would have been judged before that day comes. It says that everyone whose name is not found in the book of life will be destroyed. After that final battle when all the ones that their names have not been written in the book of life are destroyed along will all the rebellious angels have been destroyed except for satan because he will be bound for the 1,000 year reign.

The resurrection will be of the ones receiving everlasting life that have passed away. The others that never had a chance to know Christ will get that chance in the 1,000 year reign. Satan will be released for a very short time and the ones that never had a chance to know Christ and then fall error once satan is released for a very short time they and satan along with death will be cast in to the lake of fire total destruction and they will never come back from that.

That swooshing sound you heard was my point going over your head at Mach 3.

No I just corrected your fallacy if you read my words slowly.