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It appears that 1.5% of abortions are due to rape or incest. It seems like we both are, at least in these cases, pro-choice. I am perfectly willing to explore what other cases we might both fall into the pro-choice camp. I'd guess there are also cases where we'd both agree that abortions should NOT be allowed.In my world, there are potentially valid reasons for abortion, and a lot of dishonest, uninformed dimwits trying to hide behind them.
Do YOU acknowledge that the vast majority of abortions have nothing to do with rape or incest, or are you one of the dishonest dimwits trying to deflect the topic?
My point was that no one ever "Gave consent to be judged when they decided to live in society" if they are born into that society. Yet they can be legitimately and legally killed.What are ones options if they don't want to live in any society? Is there anywhere on earth that is not under some jurisdiction?So you're a pacifist who is against capital punishment?Removing life without consent is....well... Murder.
Jo
The person in the chair or on the gourney
Gave consent to be judged when they decided to live in society.
Jo
How many Iraqis agreed to be bombed by the US when we invaded? Are American airmen guilty of murder when they kill either 'enemy' soldier or civilian?
Are you actually trying to make an argument that murder is okay because the killer can't go live somewhere without other people?
Does that include incest when the sex is consented to by adult family members?[/QUOTE][QUOTE="alang1216, post: 21757871, member: 49658]
In my world there are valid reasons for allowing an abortion and rape and incest are such valid reasons. Do you agree or do you propose no abortions for anyone, ever, for any reason?
If both are adults, incest would not be a valid reason for an abortion.
My point was that no one ever "Gave consent to be judged when they decided to live in society" if they are born into that society. Yet they can be legitimately and legally killed.What are ones options if they don't want to live in any society? Is there anywhere on earth that is not under some jurisdiction?So you're a pacifist who is against capital punishment?Removing life without consent is....well... Murder.
Jo
The person in the chair or on the gourney
Gave consent to be judged when they decided to live in society.
Jo
How many Iraqis agreed to be bombed by the US when we invaded? Are American airmen guilty of murder when they kill either 'enemy' soldier or civilian?
Are you actually trying to make an argument that murder is okay because the killer can't go live somewhere without other people?
It appears that 1.5% of abortions are due to rape or incest. It seems like we both are, at least in these cases, pro-choice. I am perfectly willing to explore what other cases we might both fall into the pro-choice camp. I'd guess there are also cases where we'd both agree that abortions should NOT be allowed.In my world, there are potentially valid reasons for abortion, and a lot of dishonest, uninformed dimwits trying to hide behind them.
Do YOU acknowledge that the vast majority of abortions have nothing to do with rape or incest, or are you one of the dishonest dimwits trying to deflect the topic?
As you see, abortion is not a black and white issue and good and reasonable people can disagree without being vilified.
It appears that 1.5% of abortions are due to rape or incest. It seems like we both are, at least in these cases, pro-choice. I am perfectly willing to explore what other cases we might both fall into the pro-choice camp. I'd guess there are also cases where we'd both agree that abortions should NOT be allowed.In my world, there are potentially valid reasons for abortion, and a lot of dishonest, uninformed dimwits trying to hide behind them.
Do YOU acknowledge that the vast majority of abortions have nothing to do with rape or incest, or are you one of the dishonest dimwits trying to deflect the topic?
As you see, abortion is not a black and white issue and good and reasonable people can disagree without being vilified.
Actually, I am not the least bit pro-abortion in the case of rape or incest, because in neither case is it the baby who committed a crime/immoral act. Please do not make assumptions and project amorality onto me.
The point is that incest and rape are, and have been for a very long time, utterly irrelevant to any discussion of abortion laws in this country, and anyone who tries to talk about abortion laws by running to "rape and incest!" is either dishonest, or so woefully ignorant and out-of-date that they don't deserve to be speaking at all.
Honestly, not a subject I've thought much about... If the mother had not intended to get pregnant and then did not want to keep the baby, the incest should be a factor in whether she is allowed to have an abortion.If both are adults, incest would not be a valid reason for an abortion.
Why then do you indicate incest along with rape and the life of the mother, in your list?
If there was no consent to the incest, wouldn't that also fall under rape?
Why the need to list it separately?
Why be redundant?
Actually, I am not the least bit pro-abortion in the case of rape or incest, because in neither case is it the baby who committed a crime/immoral act. Please do not make assumptions and project amorality onto me.
So long as rape and incest happens they are relevant to me. The millions of results in Google tell me I'm not alone.The point is that incest and rape are, and have been for a very long time, utterly irrelevant to any discussion of abortion laws in this country, and anyone who tries to talk about abortion laws by running to "rape and incest!" is either dishonest, or so woefully ignorant and out-of-date that they don't deserve to be speaking at all.
Only 18% of Americans believe abortions should be illegal in ALL cases. Are 82% of Americans "leftardz" or are the vast majority of American in favor of choice in some cases?We are pro- JUSTICE.
That, in the vast majority of cases comes down to the side of LIFE and opposing the abortions.
It is telling about how desperate leftardz are, when they have to use that and twist it, to try and claim that means we are also "pro-aborts" like they are.
Oh My God. You are unbelievable.If the right is so anti-abortion why do they keep making birth control harder to get?
If the right keeps making birth control harder to get, why can't lying shits like you ever prove it?
Oh, wait, I get it. When you say "harder to get", what you mean is "How DARE you expect me to pay for things myself? If you don't give it to me, that means you're keeping me from having it!"
Forgot I was talking to a lazy, irresponsible leech who can barely breathe for himself.
Who fought the Obamacare mandates for birth control? You assfucks.
It is called INSURANCE. People were buying INSURANCE. Some were paying along with their employer to get INSURANCE. People earn their benefits including INSURANCE.
Buying it outside your policy is expensive hence HARDER TO GET.
It is assfucks ,like you &u Hobby Lobby that say they will not provide birth control as part of the health benefits packsge,. They & You are too fucking stupid to know that will lead to more unwanted pregnancies.
This is why you are a joke.
Actually, I am not the least bit pro-abortion in the case of rape or incest, because in neither case is it the baby who committed a crime/immoral act. Please do not make assumptions and project amorality onto me.
My apologies, but when you said "In my world, there are potentially valid reasons for abortion" in a discussion of rape and incest I misunderstood you. Would you please tell what those potentially valid reasons might be?
So long as rape and incest happens they are relevant to me. The millions of results in Google tell me I'm not alone.The point is that incest and rape are, and have been for a very long time, utterly irrelevant to any discussion of abortion laws in this country, and anyone who tries to talk about abortion laws by running to "rape and incest!" is either dishonest, or so woefully ignorant and out-of-date that they don't deserve to be speaking at all.
Only 18% of Americans believe abortions should be illegal in ALL cases. Are 82% of Americans "leftardz" or are the vast majority of American in favor of choice in some cases?We are pro- JUSTICE.
That, in the vast majority of cases comes down to the side of LIFE and opposing the abortions.
It is telling about how desperate leftardz are, when they have to use that and twist it, to try and claim that means we are also "pro-aborts" like they are.
Honestly, not a subject I've thought much about... If the mother had not intended to get pregnant and then did not want to keep the baby, the incest should be a factor in whether she is allowed to have an abortion.If both are adults, incest would not be a valid reason for an abortion.
Why then do you indicate incest along with rape and the life of the mother, in your list?
If there was no consent to the incest, wouldn't that also fall under rape?
Why the need to list it separately?
Why be redundant?
Happy? Perhaps we are happy that women have a choice. Perhaps we are happy that fossilized patriarchal religions fail to control women's bodies.Honestly it's a mystery to me. The cheering and clapping that takes place at these events is beyond morbid. Nothing seems to be enough for them. Now we have the growing popularity of Partial birth abortion and it's no longer connected to life threatening medical conditions now it's just....mom changed her mind!???? Um.WTF?
So let's project a little here. How long will it be before mom changes her mind when the baby is an hour old? A day old? A week old...cuz you have to know this is coming!
And what's with the ghoulish freaking victory cheer? What the hell are they winning?
Jo
Only 18% of Americans believe abortions should be illegal in ALL cases. Are 82% of Americans "leftardz" or are the vast majority of American in favor of choice in some cases?We are pro- JUSTICE.
That, in the vast majority of cases comes down to the side of LIFE and opposing the abortions.
It is telling about how desperate leftardz are, when they have to use that and twist it, to try and claim that means we are also "pro-aborts" like they are.
I heard that before and it is irrelevent. That has never happened. It is an excuse to legitimize control over another's body.The one thing they do not have is the right to another human beings body.A woman has a choice to make that will affect her life........offer her a better optionNobody is happy about abortion
Just offer expectant mothers a better choice
How hard can it be?
Again. If you truly believe it is not achild. . . Then what is there not to be happy about if the woman wants or gets an abortion?
Tell me why I should care more about HER life when she obviously doesn't have any regard for her own child's life or rights.
Notice that was not put forth as a question. There is a reason for that.
Human beings (including the moms AND their children) have RIGHTS and those rights are not contingent upon whether or not ANYONE cares about anything. So, the "caring" shit is nothing more than a diversion attempt and a red herring.
If someone (anyone really) were to grab you and then connect your body to theirs in such a way that YOU would die if the connection is severed before the time of 7-9 months. . . .
You don't think you would have a right to expect that connection to be maintained?
You don't need to answer because the fact is you WOULD. Whether you think you would or not.
Personal responsibility........Nobody is happy about abortion
Just offer expectant mothers a better choice
How hard can it be?
Start with personal responsibility.
Why is that so difficult in today's choices of birth control?
Don't give me that shit it's not accessible either....that's a lie the left loves to spew.
If birth control is your answer....why oppose Planned Parenthood which has historically been the leading proponent of birth control
Why do Conservatives oppose birth control being covered by health insurance?
Planned Parenthood is the leading proponent of getting blacks to murder their progeny. I say we up double how much tax payer money they get each year.
Lying fuck. This has been debunked a gazilion times. Why are you people such assholes?
The definition of "debunked" isn't "I've said it isn't true a million times, so that means it's not true!" Likewise, the definition of "lying" is not "saying things that AssfuckDave doesn't want to hear".
Do you deny that Planned Parenthood is the largest abortion provider in the country? Or that just over 3/4 of their clinics are in minority neighborhoods? Or that over a third of all pregnancies in the black community end in abortion? Because if you do, you're actually the only one denying those statistics. Even pro-abortion groups don't deny them.
Personal responsibility........Start with personal responsibility.
Why is that so difficult in today's choices of birth control?
Don't give me that shit it's not accessible either....that's a lie the left loves to spew.
If birth control is your answer....why oppose Planned Parenthood which has historically been the leading proponent of birth control
Why do Conservatives oppose birth control being covered by health insurance?
Planned Parenthood is the leading proponent of getting blacks to murder their progeny. I say we up double how much tax payer money they get each year.
Lying fuck. This has been debunked a gazilion times. Why are you people such assholes?
The definition of "debunked" isn't "I've said it isn't true a million times, so that means it's not true!" Likewise, the definition of "lying" is not "saying things that AssfuckDave doesn't want to hear".
Do you deny that Planned Parenthood is the largest abortion provider in the country? Or that just over 3/4 of their clinics are in minority neighborhoods? Or that over a third of all pregnancies in the black community end in abortion? Because if you do, you're actually the only one denying those statistics. Even pro-abortion groups don't deny them.
Those statrstics have nothing to do with the lie you told.
Planned Parenthood is in poor districts to prodive health care to women like cancer screenings, & family planning including birth control.
Personal responsibility........Start with personal responsibility.
Why is that so difficult in today's choices of birth control?
Don't give me that shit it's not accessible either....that's a lie the left loves to spew.
If birth control is your answer....why oppose Planned Parenthood which has historically been the leading proponent of birth control
Why do Conservatives oppose birth control being covered by health insurance?
Planned Parenthood is the leading proponent of getting blacks to murder their progeny. I say we up double how much tax payer money they get each year.
Lying fuck. This has been debunked a gazilion times. Why are you people such assholes?
The definition of "debunked" isn't "I've said it isn't true a million times, so that means it's not true!" Likewise, the definition of "lying" is not "saying things that AssfuckDave doesn't want to hear".
Do you deny that Planned Parenthood is the largest abortion provider in the country? Or that just over 3/4 of their clinics are in minority neighborhoods? Or that over a third of all pregnancies in the black community end in abortion? Because if you do, you're actually the only one denying those statistics. Even pro-abortion groups don't deny them.
Those statrstics have nothing to do with the lie you told.
Planned Parenthood is in poor districts to prodive health care to women like cancer screenings, & family planning including birth control.
