Why JFKs Roman Catholic faith is ns not the same as Romneys Mormanism

[JohnA]

the argument is who run the company into the ditch ?
the worker who was overpaid for his effort and turned out a inferior product cus of union rules /restictions or the ceo who let it happen and like the union worker took as much as he could in salary with as little effort as possible

both are partly to blame

Well, honestly, I don't think that autoworkers are overpaid. Henry Ford once said, "If my employees don't make enough to buy my product, I wouldn't have a business."

Also, while there are a lot of complaints about American cars in the last few decades, they are NOT because of union guys not doing their jobs.

Most of those decisions were made in the boardrooms. For instance, when the government handed down quite sensible fuel efficiency standards and left a loophole for SUV's, the Auto Industry started marketting everything as an SUV rather than just complying with the law. Of course, when gasoline shot up to $4.00 a gallon, no one wanted a car you had to dump half your paycheck into to fuel.

Now, where the real problem happened was with outsourcing. Back in the day, all parts were made by union guys in union shops. Then the auto companies decided to start buying parts from other companies in the third world, and all the auto plants do now is assemble the cars.

This had two effects. The first was far less workers than they used to have, but still all those retirees on pensions. The second was, a lot of that crap made in the third world really was crap.

ask yourself why did the auto companies start to buy parts in third world countries
do you really think japan & china are third world counties
CHINA OWNS US

 

[Gadawg73]

the argument is who run the company into the ditch ?
the worker who was overpaid for his effort and turned out a inferior product cus of union rules /restictions or the ceo who let it happen and like the union worker took as much as he could in salary with as little effort as possible

both are partly to blame

Well, honestly, I don't think that autoworkers are overpaid. Henry Ford once said, "If my employees don't make enough to buy my product, I wouldn't have a business."

Also, while there are a lot of complaints about American cars in the last few decades, they are NOT because of union guys not doing their jobs.

Most of those decisions were made in the boardrooms. For instance, when the government handed down quite sensible fuel efficiency standards and left a loophole for SUV's, the Auto Industry started marketting everything as an SUV rather than just complying with the law. Of course, when gasoline shot up to $4.00 a gallon, no one wanted a car you had to dump half your paycheck into to fuel.

Now, where the real problem happened was with outsourcing. Back in the day, all parts were made by union guys in union shops. Then the auto companies decided to start buying parts from other companies in the third world, and all the auto plants do now is assemble the cars.

This had two effects. The first was far less workers than they used to have, but still all those retirees on pensions. The second was, a lot of that crap made in the third world really was crap.

ask yourself why did the auto companies start to buy parts in third world countries
do you really think japan & china are third world counties
CHINA OWNS US

A union shop state is the worst place an employee that is at the top of his field could ever work.
He is forced to earn the same wage for his job description everywhere he may find work in that state.
Union workers all work for the same wage which is great for the mediocre worker and the ones below that.

 

[JoeB131]

Hey, you know what, I don't think the business owner should have MORE rights than me or LESS rights than me

To you fair is you can quit and go anywhere else any time you want. They can't fire you because that's "greed." Actually you do demand a system where rights are not equal.

Corporate raiders are good for the economy. They dissect businesses that the sum of the parts is greater then the whole. In other words, they are being managed poorly. That drives economic efficiency. There is nothing they do that harms the economy.

Bullshit. YOu are a brainwashed little consumer-bot parroting the idiot line that they are so much smarter than you are... when all they've done is won's life's lottery. Get real.

 

[Bfgrn]

Why does a person's religion discount anyone IF they fill thier obligation by rule of law and oath to protect and defend the Constitution?

The argument you pose is silly on it's face, in the middle, and on both ends.

It shouldn't, but it was a huge issue in the 1960 election. JFK confronted it head on and gave one of his finest speeches...

Address of Senator John F. Kennedy to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association, September 12, 1960 - John F. Kennedy Presidential Library & Museum

Excerpt:

I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute--where no Catholic prelate would tell the President (should he be Catholic) how to act, and no Protestant minister would tell his parishoners for whom to vote--where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference--and where no man is denied public office merely because his religion differs from the President who might appoint him or the people who might elect him.

I believe in an America that is officially neither Catholic, Protestant nor Jewish--where no public official either requests or accepts instructions on public policy from the Pope, the National Council of Churches or any other ecclesiastical source--where no religious body seeks to impose its will directly or indirectly upon the general populace or the public acts of its officials--and where religious liberty is so indivisible that an act against one church is treated as an act against all.

For while this year it may be a Catholic against whom the finger of suspicion is pointed, in other years it has been, and may someday be again, a Jew--or a Quaker--or a Unitarian--or a Baptist. It was Virginia's harassment of Baptist preachers, for example, that helped lead to Jefferson's statute of religious freedom. Today I may be the victim- -but tomorrow it may be you--until the whole fabric of our harmonious society is ripped at a time of great national peril.

Finally, I believe in an America where religious intolerance will someday end--where all men and all churches are treated as equal--where every man has the same right to attend or not attend the church of his choice--where there is no Catholic vote, no anti-Catholic vote, no bloc voting of any kind--and where Catholics, Protestants and Jews, at both the lay and pastoral level, will refrain from those attitudes of disdain and division which have so often marred their works in the past, and promote instead the American ideal of brotherhood.

That is the kind of America in which I believe. And it represents the kind of Presidency in which I believe--a great office that must neither be humbled by making it the instrument of any one religious group nor tarnished by arbitrarily withholding its occupancy from the members of any one religious group. I believe in a President whose religious views are his own private affair, neither imposed by him upon the nation or imposed by the nation upon him as a condition to holding that office.

I would not look with favor upon a President working to subvert the first amendment's guarantees of religious liberty. Nor would our system of checks and balances permit him to do so--and neither do I look with favor upon those who would work to subvert Article VI of the Constitution by requiring a religious test--even by indirection--for it. If they disagree with that safeguard they should be out openly working to repeal it.

I want a Chief Executive whose public acts are responsible to all groups and obligated to none--who can attend any ceremony, service or dinner his office may appropriately require of him--and whose fulfillment of his Presidential oath is not limited or conditioned by any religious oath, ritual or obligation.

This is the kind of America I believe in--and this is the kind I fought for in the South Pacific, and the kind my brother died for in Europe. No one suggested then that we may have a "divided loyalty," that we did "not believe in liberty," or that we belonged to a disloyal group that threatened the "freedoms for which our forefathers died."

And in fact this is the kind of America for which our forefathers died--when they fled here to escape religious test oaths that denied office to members of less favored churches--when they fought for the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and the Virginia Statute of Religious Freedom--and when they fought at the shrine I visited today, the Alamo. For side by side with Bowie and Crockett died McCafferty and Bailey and Carey--but no one knows whether they were Catholic or not. For there was no religious test at the Alamo.

 

[JoeB131]

ask yourself why did the auto companies start to buy parts in third world countries
do you really think japan & china are third world counties
CHINA OWNS US

Well, Japan and China are two different cases.

In Japan, they have bigger and more powerful unions than we have. The Japanese unions even have a say in who the Managers are. Japanese workers have vastly more rights than American workers have. This is largely becaue after they lost WWII, a bunch of FDR new Dealers went in with MacArthur and built what they could never get away with doing here. The big Corporate concerns - the Zaibatsu - were broken up.

China is anothe animal altogether. It's a communist country where they are aping certain aspects of Capitalism, but you'll never see the kind of shit you see here.

 

[Unkotare]

[
CHINA OWNS US

That's a stupid thing to say.

 

[Unkotare]

Hey, you know what, I don't think the business owner should have MORE rights than me or LESS rights than me

To you fair is you can quit and go anywhere else any time you want. They can't fire you because that's "greed." Actually you do demand a system where rights are not equal.

Corporate raiders are good for the economy. They dissect businesses that the sum of the parts is greater then the whole. In other words, they are being managed poorly. That drives economic efficiency. There is nothing they do that harms the economy.

Bullshit. YOu are a brainwashed little consumer-bot parroting the idiot line that they are so much smarter than you are... when all they've done is won's life's lottery. Get real.

You are nothing but another impotent, irrelevant, far-left little bitch. Marxism is NEVER going to happen the way you want so forget your little lefty fantasy, get up off your lazy ass and make something of yourself if you expect to get anything out of life, loser.

 

[liason82]

If anything we can be sure Romney will not mix religion and government.

 

[Gadawg73]

ask yourself why did the auto companies start to buy parts in third world countries
do you really think japan & china are third world counties
CHINA OWNS US

Well, Japan and China are two different cases.

In Japan, they have bigger and more powerful unions than we have. The Japanese unions even have a say in who the Managers are. Japanese workers have vastly more rights than American workers have. This is largely becaue after they lost WWII, a bunch of FDR new Dealers went in with MacArthur and built what they could never get away with doing here. The big Corporate concerns - the Zaibatsu - were broken up.

China is anothe animal altogether. It's a communist country where they are aping certain aspects of Capitalism, but you'll never see the kind of shit you see here.

What rights do Japanese workers have that our workers do not have?
And guess why Japanese workers have a say in who the managers are.
JAPANESE WORKERS INVEST their $$ in the companies they work in and do not demonize management.
Japanese workers love it when their executives and management make big $$$. Greed is not in their vocabulary.

 

[The T]

ask yourself why did the auto companies start to buy parts in third world countries
do you really think japan & china are third world counties
CHINA OWNS US

Well, Japan and China are two different cases.

In Japan, they have bigger and more powerful unions than we have. The Japanese unions even have a say in who the Managers are. Japanese workers have vastly more rights than American workers have. This is largely becaue after they lost WWII, a bunch of FDR new Dealers went in with MacArthur and built what they could never get away with doing here. The big Corporate concerns - the Zaibatsu - were broken up.

China is anothe animal altogether. It's a communist country where they are aping certain aspects of Capitalism, but you'll never see the kind of shit you see here.

What rights do Japanese workers have that our workers do not have?
And guess why Japanese workers have a say in who the managers are.
JAPANESE WORKERS INVEST their $$ in the companies they work in and do not demonize management.
Japanese workers love it when their executives and management make big $$$. Greed is not in their vocabulary.

The Japanese have Discipline and order...

 

[Richard-H]

Well, Japan and China are two different cases.

In Japan, they have bigger and more powerful unions than we have. The Japanese unions even have a say in who the Managers are. Japanese workers have vastly more rights than American workers have. This is largely becaue after they lost WWII, a bunch of FDR new Dealers went in with MacArthur and built what they could never get away with doing here. The big Corporate concerns - the Zaibatsu - were broken up.

China is anothe animal altogether. It's a communist country where they are aping certain aspects of Capitalism, but you'll never see the kind of shit you see here.

What rights do Japanese workers have that our workers do not have?
And guess why Japanese workers have a say in who the managers are.
JAPANESE WORKERS INVEST their $$ in the companies they work in and do not demonize management.
Japanese workers love it when their executives and management make big $$$. Greed is not in their vocabulary.

The Japanese have Discipline and order...

They also have a CEO to average pay ratio of 11:1, while America's is 475:1.

Average USA CEO to worker pay ratio – 475:1. « Financial Freedumb and Brownie

 

[JohnA]

What rights do Japanese workers have that our workers do not have?
And guess why Japanese workers have a say in who the managers are.
JAPANESE WORKERS INVEST their $$ in the companies they work in and do not demonize management.
Japanese workers love it when their executives and management make big $$$. Greed is not in their vocabulary.

The Japanese have Discipline and order...

They also have a CEO to average pay ratio of 11:1, while America's is 475:1.

Average USA CEO to worker pay ratio – 475:1. « Financial Freedumb and Brownie

well you know the answer be a CEO of your own company instead of a lazy assed union minion

 

[madasheck]

Well, honestly, I don't think that autoworkers are overpaid. Henry Ford once said, "If my employees don't make enough to buy my product, I wouldn't have a business."

Also, while there are a lot of complaints about American cars in the last few decades, they are NOT because of union guys not doing their jobs.

Most of those decisions were made in the boardrooms. For instance, when the government handed down quite sensible fuel efficiency standards and left a loophole for SUV's, the Auto Industry started marketting everything as an SUV rather than just complying with the law. Of course, when gasoline shot up to $4.00 a gallon, no one wanted a car you had to dump half your paycheck into to fuel.

Now, where the real problem happened was with outsourcing. Back in the day, all parts were made by union guys in union shops. Then the auto companies decided to start buying parts from other companies in the third world, and all the auto plants do now is assemble the cars.

This had two effects. The first was far less workers than they used to have, but still all those retirees on pensions. The second was, a lot of that crap made in the third world really was crap.

ask yourself why did the auto companies start to buy parts in third world countries
do you really think japan & china are third world counties
CHINA OWNS US

A union shop state is the worst place an employee that is at the top of his field could ever work.
He is forced to earn the same wage for his job description everywhere he may find work in that state.
Union workers all work for the same wage which is great for the mediocre worker and the ones below that.

Not true. Union wages that I've seen are contingent on experience and job classification. Merit raises aren't out of the question. What union are you talking about?

 

[madasheck]

Just because you agree with him doesn't mean he isn't a hate-filled racist, moron. It means that...

Pulling his words out of context and judging him doesn't mean he's hate-filled racist, either.

The Wright sermon you referred to was about history.

And as long as your pulling quotes out of context, is this Wright statement racist? I'd say it indicates Wright's overall purpose was to bring people together.

"God does not desire for us, as children of God, to be at war with each other, to see each other as superior or inferior, to hate each other, abuse each other, misuse each other, define each other or put each other down."​

(Here's the link: Transcript: Rev. Jeremiah Wright speech to National Press Club - chicagotribune.com)

 

[Unkotare]

Statements one should expect from a 'preacher' don't cancel out hateful, bigoted outrages you pathetic fucking apologist.

 

[madasheck]

I'll give you the chance to rephrase yours. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics (see link below), the number of wage and salary workers belonging to unions in 2011 was 14.7 million. The union membership rate for public sector workers (36.2 percent) was substantially higher than the rate for private sector workers (6.9 percent). Workers in education, training, and library occupations had the highest unionization rate at 37.1 percent.

In 2010, government employees (783,000) comprised about half of the 1.6 million workers who were covered by a union contract but were not members of a union.

I don't see 87 percent anywhere, do you? (The link with those stats is below.)

Google is your friend.

Union Members Summary

Yep, I misread the stats. I was mixing total percentage with percentage by sector. The USBLS does indicate that "only" 52% of union members are public sector.

Where and when did your 52 percent come from? My 36.2 figure was from last year.

 

[JoeB131]

ask yourself why did the auto companies start to buy parts in third world countries
do you really think japan & china are third world counties
CHINA OWNS US

Well, Japan and China are two different cases.

In Japan, they have bigger and more powerful unions than we have. The Japanese unions even have a say in who the Managers are. Japanese workers have vastly more rights than American workers have. This is largely becaue after they lost WWII, a bunch of FDR new Dealers went in with MacArthur and built what they could never get away with doing here. The big Corporate concerns - the Zaibatsu - were broken up.

China is anothe animal altogether. It's a communist country where they are aping certain aspects of Capitalism, but you'll never see the kind of shit you see here.

What rights do Japanese workers have that our workers do not have?
And guess why Japanese workers have a say in who the managers are.
JAPANESE WORKERS INVEST their $$ in the companies they work in and do not demonize management.
Japanese workers love it when their executives and management make big $$$. Greed is not in their vocabulary.

Japanese executives also don't make eight figure salaries, nor do they insist on getting their bonuses when the companies loose money and have to lay people off. They have something called a sense of decency.

Unlike Mitt "I like to fire people" Romney.

 

[Gadawg73]

Well, Japan and China are two different cases.

In Japan, they have bigger and more powerful unions than we have. The Japanese unions even have a say in who the Managers are. Japanese workers have vastly more rights than American workers have. This is largely becaue after they lost WWII, a bunch of FDR new Dealers went in with MacArthur and built what they could never get away with doing here. The big Corporate concerns - the Zaibatsu - were broken up.

China is anothe animal altogether. It's a communist country where they are aping certain aspects of Capitalism, but you'll never see the kind of shit you see here.

What rights do Japanese workers have that our workers do not have?
And guess why Japanese workers have a say in who the managers are.
JAPANESE WORKERS INVEST their $$ in the companies they work in and do not demonize management.
Japanese workers love it when their executives and management make big $$$. Greed is not in their vocabulary.

Japanese executives also don't make eight figure salaries, nor do they insist on getting their bonuses when the companies loose money and have to lay people off. They have something called a sense of decency.

Unlike Mitt "I like to fire people" Romney.

Joe, is it you just know nothing about free enterprise and business?
Executives never insist on anything.
You think you are the only ones that get paid by CONTRACT?

 

[JoeB131]

Joe, is it you just know nothing about free enterprise and business?
Executives never insist on anything.
You think you are the only ones that get paid by CONTRACT?

Yawn. I'm always amazed when people say "you don't understand" when I point out how screwed up something is.

When I do this with bible stories, Christians babble "YOu don't understand God's plan!"

When I do this with messed up business practices, Corporatists babble, "You just don't understand business".

Only American CEO's insist on these 7 and 8 figure salaries. It's unique to our kind of greed. And if you get a guy like Hanaway, who got a 72 million dollar severance package from Cigna while he let a teen girl die due to lack of liver transplant, or Wagoneer taking 12 million dollars while he ran to the government for a bailout for GM. Well, I'll freely admit, I just don't understand these things.

I just know that they are wrong...

 

[Gadawg73]

Joe, is it you just know nothing about free enterprise and business?
Executives never insist on anything.
You think you are the only ones that get paid by CONTRACT?

Yawn. I'm always amazed when people say "you don't understand" when I point out how screwed up something is.

When I do this with bible stories, Christians babble "YOu don't understand God's plan!"

When I do this with messed up business practices, Corporatists babble, "You just don't understand business".

Only American CEO's insist on these 7 and 8 figure salaries. It's unique to our kind of greed. And if you get a guy like Hanaway, who got a 72 million dollar severance package from Cigna while he let a teen girl die due to lack of liver transplant, or Wagoneer taking 12 million dollars while he ran to the government for a bailout for GM. Well, I'll freely admit, I just don't understand these things.

I just know that they are wrong...

So you believe management goes in to the Board of Directors and states "I insist on a large salary and a large bonus. If I do not get one I will hold my breath until I pass out."
Sorry Joe, that is not how business works in America.
Your union buddies are bull shitting you the gullible and naive fellow you are.