Why only a "progressive" income tax?

[NYcarbineer]

Keep in mind the payroll tax is regressive, and also an income tax.

We should either get rid of the payroll tax or privatize it

That's an even dumber idea than your flat tax.

Yeah it's dumber to actually allow people to accumulate some money for retirement it's infinitely better to force people to be dependent on the fucking government

In addition to the dollar value of the payroll tax for retirees, Americans have many many many ways of putting away money for retirement AND receiving tax breaks for doing so.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Why? Perhaps to make up for regressive payroll taxes.

So adding more tax to middle level earners who buy a second TV is going to make up for them paying payroll taxes?

This thread is beyond me. Have no clue how buying a 2nd TV relates to anything about the progressive tax structure. I suggest folks thinking of buying a 2nd TV instead pick up a library card and a book for nothing.

In the first post of the thread I posed the question

If a progressive tax is the best tax for income why not make all taxes progressive

So if we made the sales tax progressive instead of flat like it is now then if you bought multiple identical items the sales tax would rise on each additional item you buy

It's progressive so it's a good way to tax right?

The flat tax is a good idea only if you believe that low income people are undertaxed and high income people are overtaxed.

If you believe that making the rich richer and the poor poorer would be good for the country then of course you support a flat tax.

 

[Centinel]

The flat tax is a good idea only if you believe that low income people are undertaxed and high income people are overtaxed.

If you believe that making the rich richer and the poor poorer would be good for the country then of course you support a flat tax.

Actually, it's also a good idea if you think that everyone should pay the same tax on each dollar earned.

However, I think the fairest form of taxation would be twofold. First, wherever possible, we each pay for the federal services we use. So, for example, each of us pays to use post roads and post offices; each of us pays to have our specie minted into coins; each pays to purchase a patent; etc. And then for those federal services that are non-excludable and non-rivalrous, we split the bill evenly. Each pays his portion of the federal bill. If we all get the service, we all pay an equal share.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The flat tax is a good idea only if you believe that low income people are undertaxed and high income people are overtaxed.

If you believe that making the rich richer and the poor poorer would be good for the country then of course you support a flat tax.

Actually, it's also a good idea if you think that everyone should pay the same tax on each dollar earned.

However, I think the fairest form of taxation would be twofold. First, wherever possible, we each pay for the federal services we use. So, for example, each of us pays to use post roads and post offices; each of us pays to have our specie minted into coins; each pays to purchase a patent; etc. And then for those federal services that are non-excludable and non-rivalrous, we split the bill evenly. Each pays his portion of the federal bill. If we all get the service, we all pay an equal share.

We could charge each person in the US an equal share of the cost of our annual defense budget too. Why don't we do that?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Keep in mind the payroll tax is regressive, and also an income tax.

We should either get rid of the payroll tax or privatize it

That's an even dumber idea than your flat tax.

Yeah it's dumber to actually allow people to accumulate some money for retirement it's infinitely better to force people to be dependent on the fucking government

In addition to the dollar value of the payroll tax for retirees, Americans have many many many ways of putting away money for retirement AND receiving tax breaks for doing so.

The only one worth mentioning is the Roth IRA and not all people are eligible for that one and you're limited to what you can contribute

FYI Traditional IRAs and 401ks or 403bs do not give people tax breaks even if you believe they do all you get is a tax deferral in fact they screw people big time because all the gains are taxed as regular income and not the lower capital gains rate AND the fucking government tells you when and how much you have to take out every year just so they can squeeze every last tax dollar out of you

 

[Skull Pilot]

Why? Perhaps to make up for regressive payroll taxes.

So adding more tax to middle level earners who buy a second TV is going to make up for them paying payroll taxes?

This thread is beyond me. Have no clue how buying a 2nd TV relates to anything about the progressive tax structure. I suggest folks thinking of buying a 2nd TV instead pick up a library card and a book for nothing.

In the first post of the thread I posed the question

If a progressive tax is the best tax for income why not make all taxes progressive

So if we made the sales tax progressive instead of flat like it is now then if you bought multiple identical items the sales tax would rise on each additional item you buy

It's progressive so it's a good way to tax right?

The flat tax is a good idea only if you believe that low income people are undertaxed and high income people are overtaxed.

If you believe that making the rich richer and the poor poorer would be good for the country then of course you support a flat tax.

The flat tax is the only fair tax but you don't care about fair do you?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Keep in mind the payroll tax is regressive, and also an income tax.

We should either get rid of the payroll tax or privatize it

That's an even dumber idea than your flat tax.

Yeah it's dumber to actually allow people to accumulate some money for retirement it's infinitely better to force people to be dependent on the fucking government

In addition to the dollar value of the payroll tax for retirees, Americans have many many many ways of putting away money for retirement AND receiving tax breaks for doing so.

The only one worth mentioning is the Roth IRA and not all people are eligible for that one and you're limited to what you can contribute

FYI Traditional IRAs and 401ks or 403bs do not give people tax breaks even if you believe they do all you get is a tax deferral in fact they screw people big time because all the gains are taxed as regular income and not the lower capital gains rate AND the fucking government tells you when and how much you have to take out every year just so they can squeeze every last tax dollar out of you

You wrongly assume that retirees are still making the same amount of taxable income after retirement.

Think before you post.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Why? Perhaps to make up for regressive payroll taxes.

So adding more tax to middle level earners who buy a second TV is going to make up for them paying payroll taxes?

This thread is beyond me. Have no clue how buying a 2nd TV relates to anything about the progressive tax structure. I suggest folks thinking of buying a 2nd TV instead pick up a library card and a book for nothing.

In the first post of the thread I posed the question

If a progressive tax is the best tax for income why not make all taxes progressive

So if we made the sales tax progressive instead of flat like it is now then if you bought multiple identical items the sales tax would rise on each additional item you buy

It's progressive so it's a good way to tax right?

The flat tax is a good idea only if you believe that low income people are undertaxed and high income people are overtaxed.

If you believe that making the rich richer and the poor poorer would be good for the country then of course you support a flat tax.

The flat tax is the only fair tax but you don't care about fair do you?

'Fair' is not an absolute, nor is it for you to determine.

 

[Centinel]

We could charge each person in the US an equal share of the cost of our annual defense budget too. Why don't we do that?

I don't know why we don't. But as I said, the cost for such "public goods" (non-rivalrous and nonexcludable) should be split equally among all the people benefitting from them. Other services for which a customer can be identified should be billed to the individual users.

 

[Skull Pilot]

We should either get rid of the payroll tax or privatize it

That's an even dumber idea than your flat tax.

Yeah it's dumber to actually allow people to accumulate some money for retirement it's infinitely better to force people to be dependent on the fucking government

In addition to the dollar value of the payroll tax for retirees, Americans have many many many ways of putting awahow much to take out every yeary money for retirement AND receiving tax breaks for doing so.

The only one worth mentioning is the Roth IRA and not all people are eligible for that one and you're limited to what you can contribute

FYI Traditional IRAs and 401ks or 403bs do not give people tax breaks even if you believe they do all you get is a tax deferral in fact they screw people big time because all the gains are taxed as regular income and not the lower capital gains rate AND the fucking government tells you when and how much you have to take out every year just so they can squeeze every last tax dollar out of you

You wrongly assume that retirees are still making the same amount of taxable income after retirement.

Think before you post.

Tell me is it your plan to live in the 10% bracket in retirement? If your tax bracket is more than 15% which is an income of just under 10K to about 37K you are getting screwed

SO if you think you can live on less than 37K a year for a couple in your retirement you my naive friend are in for a rude awakening and that is assuming the tax brackets don't change

Now that's IF and a big IF the government required distributions formulas even allows your nest egg to last for your entire retirement

Seems to me you need to study up a little bit

 

[Skull Pilot]

So adding more tax to middle level earners who buy a second TV is going to make up for them paying payroll taxes?

This thread is beyond me. Have no clue how buying a 2nd TV relates to anything about the progressive tax structure. I suggest folks thinking of buying a 2nd TV instead pick up a library card and a book for nothing.

In the first post of the thread I posed the question

If a progressive tax is the best tax for income why not make all taxes progressive

So if we made the sales tax progressive instead of flat like it is now then if you bought multiple identical items the sales tax would rise on each additional item you buy

It's progressive so it's a good way to tax right?

The flat tax is a good idea only if you believe that low income people are undertaxed and high income people are overtaxed.

If you believe that making the rich richer and the poor poorer would be good for the country then of course you support a flat tax.

The flat tax is the only fair tax but you don't care about fair do you?

'Fair' is not an absolute, nor is it for you to determine.

Fair is absolute

If I am charged 40% tax on some of my dollars and you aren't then I am being taxed unfairly.

If more of my income is taxable because you have kids and I don't then I am being axed unfairly

If You get to write off mortgage interest the pesron without a house who is paying more is being taxed unfairly

 

[Timmy]

Who's paying 40% ? Really ?

While we are being all fair, should we have compulsory military service?

 

[Contumacious]

Progressive income taxes are based on the subjective marginal utility analysis that basically says idiots in government can decide if you "need" all the money you make or not and that they are justified in taking the money they decide you don't "need"

Well all of you who love this type of blatantly unfair tax scheme I ask you why stop at income?

Why not use progressive tax schemes for everything that is taxed?

Let's say you own a 4 bedroom home but you and your wife have only 1 kid. You only "need" 2 bedrooms so some moron in your state government can decide that those 2 bedrooms must be taken from you and given to someone else and then inserts 2 people into your home because they "need" those rooms and you don't

What about a vacation home? Surely you don't "need" that if you only use it on occasion.

You and your wife have 2 cars and you have your dream car in the garage you don't need that classic 1969 GTO so why not let the government take it from you to give to someone who does "need" it

I bet that sounds like a great plan to some of you doesn't it?

If you want to argue against imaginary scenarios you need to find some imaginary people to take the other side?

A lefty talking about "imaginary" Classic.

Compared to the idiot in the thread who thinks the progressive income tax is Marxism ?

Hummmmmmmmmmm

Let's see what Karl Marx said about a heavy graduated income tax in the COMMUNIST MANIFESTO, Ch 2

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.


You stupid motherfucker, you lose again

.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Who's paying 40% ? Really ?

While we are being all fair, should we have compulsory military service?

Some dollars for some earners are being taxed at 39.6% I rounded that up to 40 for brevity

 

[Timmy]

Who's paying 40% ? Really ?

While we are being all fair, should we have compulsory military service?

Some dollars for some earners are being taxed at 39.6% I rounded that up to 40 for brevity

In theory . But considering all the tax exemptions and write offs, it's highly unlikely .

Can you point to a real life example of 40% tax rate ? Other than lottery winners, you won't find them.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Progressive income taxes are based on the subjective marginal utility analysis that basically says idiots in government can decide if you "need" all the money you make or not and that they are justified in taking the money they decide you don't "need"

Well all of you who love this type of blatantly unfair tax scheme I ask you why stop at income?

Why not use progressive tax schemes for everything that is taxed?

Let's say you own a 4 bedroom home but you and your wife have only 1 kid. You only "need" 2 bedrooms so some moron in your state government can decide that those 2 bedrooms must be taken from you and given to someone else and then inserts 2 people into your home because they "need" those rooms and you don't

What about a vacation home? Surely you don't "need" that if you only use it on occasion.

You and your wife have 2 cars and you have your dream car in the garage you don't need that classic 1969 GTO so why not let the government take it from you to give to someone who does "need" it

I bet that sounds like a great plan to some of you doesn't it?

This is not meant to be funny. I have read and heard these arguments regarding "fairness" as well as arguments filled with hatred in describing the trappings of wealth. Such as material possessions, the ability to afford a private education for their kids.
These arguments funnel into two angles. One, "they don't need all that/it's unfair for one person to have all that money so I think the government should take some of it from them"
Two...."Rich people have the civic duty to pay up and help the less fortunate."...
Neither of which are the real meaning.
The fact is the class envy/warfare crowd looks upon taxation as a means not to increase revenue, but as a means to punish.
I have dealt with those who actually think that somehow if wealthy people did not exist, their personal fortunes would be much better.
I find it incredible that anyone thinks this way. It is anti-American.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Progressive income taxes are based on the subjective marginal utility analysis that basically says idiots in government can decide if you "need" all the money you make or not and that they are justified in taking the money they decide you don't "need"

Well all of you who love this type of blatantly unfair tax scheme I ask you why stop at income?

Why not use progressive tax schemes for everything that is taxed?

Let's say you own a 4 bedroom home but you and your wife have only 1 kid. You only "need" 2 bedrooms so some moron in your state government can decide that those 2 bedrooms must be taken from you and given to someone else and then inserts 2 people into your home because they "need" those rooms and you don't

What about a vacation home? Surely you don't "need" that if you only use it on occasion.

You and your wife have 2 cars and you have your dream car in the garage you don't need that classic 1969 GTO so why not let the government take it from you to give to someone who does "need" it

I bet that sounds like a great plan to some of you doesn't it?

If you want to argue against imaginary scenarios you need to find some imaginary people to take the other side.

Oh please. On this issue, your side has been exposed on numerous occasions.
In fact the liberal/ socialist mindset on wealth is firmly in the redistribution camp.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Progressive income taxes are based on the subjective marginal utility analysis that basically says idiots in government can decide if you "need" all the money you make or not and that they are justified in taking the money they decide you don't "need"

And you fail right there.

the OP hit a nerve, huh?

 

[thereisnospoon]

Who's paying 40% ? Really ?

While we are being all fair, should we have compulsory military service?

Some dollars for some earners are being taxed at 39.6% I rounded that up to 40 for brevity

In theory . But considering all the tax exemptions and write offs, it's highly unlikely .

Can you point to a real life example of 40% tax rate ? Other than lottery winners, you won't find them.

When one's entire tax burden in real dollars vs their income is realized, the percentage of our income we hand over to various govt entities is staggering.
And yet, for you people, it's never enough.
Newsflash. Taxation is not intended for the purpose of balancing the imaginary playing field.
A FAIR tax where everyone pays the same percentage of their income is the ONLY way to increase revenue to government.
Liberals are incensed over this concept.
Increase the capital gains and dividends taxes for higher-income taxpayers
http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/finance/231728-on-capital-gains-obama-is-no-reagan
Another issue is that the whining about the tax code from the Left is to this day just that. Whining. No politician worth their salt is going to propose legislation to change th etax code that will in effect damage the bank accounts of those from which they depend so heavily on campaign contributions.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Progressive income taxes are based on the subjective marginal utility analysis that basically says idiots in government can decide if you "need" all the money you make or not and that they are justified in taking the money they decide you don't "need"

Well all of you who love this type of blatantly unfair tax scheme I ask you why stop at income?

Why not use progressive tax schemes for everything that is taxed?

Let's say you own a 4 bedroom home but you and your wife have only 1 kid. You only "need" 2 bedrooms so some moron in your state government can decide that those 2 bedrooms must be taken from you and given to someone else and then inserts 2 people into your home because they "need" those rooms and you don't

What about a vacation home? Surely you don't "need" that if you only use it on occasion.

You and your wife have 2 cars and you have your dream car in the garage you don't need that classic 1969 GTO so why not let the government take it from you to give to someone who does "need" it

I bet that sounds like a great plan to some of you doesn't it?

If you want to argue against imaginary scenarios you need to find some imaginary people to take the other side?

A lefty talking about "imaginary" Classic.

Compared to the idiot in the thread who thinks the progressive income tax is Marxism ?

So answer the question.

Why not apply the so called progressive tax to everything?

Why not lower the speed limit to 1 mile per hour in school zones?

You're an idiot. You prove it here every day.

The idiocy is in your suggestion of such a ridiculous idea.