Why only a "progressive" income tax?

[The Great Goose]

Please shut down this thread.

If you don't like it leave

Make like a tree, and get out of here.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Because I'm smarter than you are.

So it's not a good tax scheme

It's a better tax system than a flat tax because in relative terms the flat tax reduces taxes on the rich and raises taxes on the not rich.

I'm not comparing it to a flat tax system Moron

I'm asking that if it's good enough for income why not everything else

And I can give you an example of how a flat tax won't reduce the taxes the rich pay

Say you make 10 Million off in investments a year (hilarious I know but bear with me)

Now you can give all kids of money to charity and get a deduction, you can take a mortgage interest deduction etc lowering your income to 7 million a year and you only pay 15% of 7M or 1.05M in taxes

If you paid a flat 12% on ALL the money you earned you would have paid 1.2M in taxes

Capital gains are taxed differently.

Not under the flat tax I have been proposing they aren't

I used capital gains because you were whining that the rich would get a tax cut if we used a flat tax I showed you how they wouldn't

Your incomprehensible example didn't prove anything.

BTW, if you exempt money earned at the bottom in a flat tax system, it's no longer flat. Do you?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Progressive income taxes are based on the subjective marginal utility analysis that basically says idiots in government can decide if you "need" all the money you make or not and that they are justified in taking the money they decide you don't "need"

Well all of you who love this type of blatantly unfair tax scheme I ask you why stop at income?

Why not use progressive tax schemes for everything that is taxed?

Let's say you own a 4 bedroom home but you and your wife have only 1 kid. You only "need" 2 bedrooms so some moron in your state government can decide that those 2 bedrooms must be taken from you and given to someone else and then inserts 2 people into your home because they "need" those rooms and you don't

What about a vacation home? Surely you don't "need" that if you only use it on occasion.

You and your wife have 2 cars and you have your dream car in the garage you don't need that classic 1969 GTO so why not let the government take it from you to give to someone who does "need" it

I bet that sounds like a great plan to some of you doesn't it?

If you want to argue against imaginary scenarios you need to find some imaginary people to take the other side?

A lefty talking about "imaginary" Classic.

Compared to the idiot in the thread who thinks the progressive income tax is Marxism ?

Well, actually it is the second plank of Communism... read the Communist Manifesto. It is #2 on the list.. second only to the abolition of private ownership of property.

FAIL

 

[Skull Pilot]

If you want to argue against imaginary scenarios you need to find some imaginary people to take the other side?

You love the progressive tax system don't you?

Why not apply it everywhere?

Because I'm smarter than you are.

That's true, but probably not something to brag about. A pair of old gym socks are smarter than him.

So you won't answer the question either

This is called a debate so tell me why progressive taxes are good for income but not for example sales taxes?

No. This is not a debate. This is a forum where I can laugh at stupid right wing claims. If you understood and accepted the nature of facts, we could debate, but sadly the right has shown that is not possible.

So you're incapable of answering the question
Got it.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Progressive income taxes are based on the subjective marginal utility analysis that basically says idiots in government can decide if you "need" all the money you make or not and that they are justified in taking the money they decide you don't "need"

Well all of you who love this type of blatantly unfair tax scheme I ask you why stop at income?

Why not use progressive tax schemes for everything that is taxed?

Let's say you own a 4 bedroom home but you and your wife have only 1 kid. You only "need" 2 bedrooms so some moron in your state government can decide that those 2 bedrooms must be taken from you and given to someone else and then inserts 2 people into your home because they "need" those rooms and you don't

What about a vacation home? Surely you don't "need" that if you only use it on occasion.

You and your wife have 2 cars and you have your dream car in the garage you don't need that classic 1969 GTO so why not let the government take it from you to give to someone who does "need" it

I bet that sounds like a great plan to some of you doesn't it?

If you want to argue against imaginary scenarios you need to find some imaginary people to take the other side?

A lefty talking about "imaginary" Classic.

Compared to the idiot in the thread who thinks the progressive income tax is Marxism ?

Let's say you own a 4 bedroom home but you and your wife have only 1 kid. You only "need" 2 bedrooms so some moron in your state government can decide that those 2 bedrooms must be taken from you and given to someone else and then inserts 2 people into your home because they "need" those rooms and you don't
What about a vacation home? Surely you don't "need" that if you only use it on occasion.
You and your wife have 2 cars and you have your dream car in the garage you don't need that classic 1969 GTO so why not let the government take it from you to give to someone who does "need" it
I bet that sounds like a great plan to some of you doesn't it?

Marxism 101
Abolishment of private property and only using what you need. Marx didn't appreciate people making/receiving frivolous things that put people in a different class from those who cant afford them.
Such as a 4 bedroom home for 3 people..

EDIT : Credit to fox for reminding me. Progressive taxes are one of the 10 planks of the communist manifesto.

Gee, let's all give three cheers for Plutocracy, when the 1% make all the laws won't this be a great and wonderful utopia?

 

[Skull Pilot]

So it's not a good tax scheme

It's a better tax system than a flat tax because in relative terms the flat tax reduces taxes on the rich and raises taxes on the not rich.

I'm not comparing it to a flat tax system Moron

I'm asking that if it's good enough for income why not everything else

And I can give you an example of how a flat tax won't reduce the taxes the rich pay

Say you make 10 Million off in investments a year (hilarious I know but bear with me)

Now you can give all kids of money to charity and get a deduction, you can take a mortgage interest deduction etc lowering your income to 7 million a year and you only pay 15% of 7M or 1.05M in taxes

If you paid a flat 12% on ALL the money you earned you would have paid 1.2M in taxes

Capital gains are taxed differently.

Not under the flat tax I have been proposing they aren't

I used capital gains because you were whining that the rich would get a tax cut if we used a flat tax I showed you how they wouldn't

Your incomprehensible example didn't prove anything.

BTW, if you exempt money earned at the bottom in a flat tax system, it's no longer flat. Do you?

SO wait

15% of 7 million as compared to 12% of 10 million is incomprehensible to you?

That's so sad

 

[Skull Pilot]

So it's not a good tax scheme

It's a better tax system than a flat tax because in relative terms the flat tax reduces taxes on the rich and raises taxes on the not rich.

I'm not comparing it to a flat tax system Moron

I'm asking that if it's good enough for income why not everything else

And I can give you an example of how a flat tax won't reduce the taxes the rich pay

Say you make 10 Million off in investments a year (hilarious I know but bear with me)

Now you can give all kids of money to charity and get a deduction, you can take a mortgage interest deduction etc lowering your income to 7 million a year and you only pay 15% of 7M or 1.05M in taxes

If you paid a flat 12% on ALL the money you earned you would have paid 1.2M in taxes

Capital gains are taxed differently.

Not under the flat tax I have been proposing they aren't

I used capital gains because you were whining that the rich would get a tax cut if we used a flat tax I showed you how they wouldn't

Your incomprehensible example didn't prove anything.

BTW, if you exempt money earned at the bottom in a flat tax system, it's no longer flat. Do you?

Where did I exempt any money?

 

[NYcarbineer]

The progressive tax taxes brackets at different rates, therefore, by itself, it is a tax system that is the same for everyone.
The money the billionaire earns in the lowest bracket is taxed the same as the person who only has taxable income in the lower bracket.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Thinks about it... here's the 10 planks of Communisma as outlined by Marx:
1. Abolition of private property and the application of all rents of land to public purposes.
Americans do these with actions such as the 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution (1868), and various zoning, school & property taxes. Also the Bureau of Land Management (Zoning laws are the first step to government property ownership)

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
Americans know this as misapplication of the 16th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, 1913, The Social Security Act of 1936.; Joint House Resolution 192 of 1933; and various State "income" taxes. We call it "paying your fair share".

3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
Americans call it Federal & State estate Tax (1916); or reformed Probate Laws, and limited inheritance via arbitrary inheritance tax statutes.

4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
Americans call it government seizures, tax liens, Public "law" 99-570 (1986); Executive order 11490, sections 1205, 2002 which gives private land to the Department of Urban Development; the imprisonment of "terrorists" and those who speak out or write against the "government" (1997 Crime/Terrorist Bill); or the IRS confiscation of property without due process. Asset forfeiture laws are used by DEA, IRS, ATF etc...).

5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
Americans call it the Federal Reserve which is a privately-owned credit/debt system allowed by the Federal Reserve act of 1913. All local banks are members of the Fed system, and are regulated by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) another privately-owned corporation. The Federal Reserve Banks issue Fiat Paper Money and practice economically destructive fractional reserve banking.

6. Centralization of the means of communications and transportation in the hands of the State.
Americans call it the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) and Department of Transportation (DOT) mandated through the ICC act of 1887, the Commissions Act of 1934, The Interstate Commerce Commission established in 1938, The Federal Aviation Administration, Federal Communications Commission, and Executive orders 11490, 10999, as well as State mandated driver's licenses and Department of Transportation regulations.

7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state, the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
Americans call it corporate capacity, The Desert Entry Act and The Department of Agriculture… Thus read "controlled or subsidized" rather than "owned"… This is easily seen in these as well as the Department of Commerce and Labor, Department of Interior, the Environmental Protection Agency, Bureau of Land Management, Bureau of Reclamation, Bureau of Mines, National Park Service, and the IRS control of business through corporate regulations.

8. Equal liability of all to labor. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
Americans call it Minimum Wage and slave labor like dealing with our Most Favored Nation trade partner; i.e. Communist China. We see it in practice via the Social Security Administration and The Department of Labor. The National debt and inflation caused by the communal bank has caused the need for a two "income" family. Woman in the workplace since the 1920's, the 19th amendment of the U.S. Constitution, the Civil Rights Act of 1964, assorted Socialist Unions, affirmative action, the Federal Public Works Program and of course Executive order 11000.

9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries, gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equitable distribution of population over the country.
Americans call it the Planning Reorganization act of 1949 , zoning (Title 17 1910-1990) and Super Corporate Farms, as well as Executive orders 11647, 11731 (ten regions) and Public "law" 89-136. These provide for forced relocations and forced sterilization programs, like in China.

10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Progressive income taxes are based on the subjective marginal utility analysis that basically says idiots in government can decide if you "need" all the money you make or not and that they are justified in taking the money they decide you don't "need"

Well all of you who love this type of blatantly unfair tax scheme I ask you why stop at income?

Why not use progressive tax schemes for everything that is taxed?

Let's say you own a 4 bedroom home but you and your wife have only 1 kid. You only "need" 2 bedrooms so some moron in your state government can decide that those 2 bedrooms must be taken from you and given to someone else and then inserts 2 people into your home because they "need" those rooms and you don't

What about a vacation home? Surely you don't "need" that if you only use it on occasion.

You and your wife have 2 cars and you have your dream car in the garage you don't need that classic 1969 GTO so why not let the government take it from you to give to someone who does "need" it

I bet that sounds like a great plan to some of you doesn't it?

If you want to argue against imaginary scenarios you need to find some imaginary people to take the other side?

A lefty talking about "imaginary" Classic.

Compared to the idiot in the thread who thinks the progressive income tax is Marxism ?

Let's say you own a 4 bedroom home but you and your wife have only 1 kid. You only "need" 2 bedrooms so some moron in your state government can decide that those 2 bedrooms must be taken from you and given to someone else and then inserts 2 people into your home because they "need" those rooms and you don't
What about a vacation home? Surely you don't "need" that if you only use it on occasion.
You and your wife have 2 cars and you have your dream car in the garage you don't need that classic 1969 GTO so why not let the government take it from you to give to someone who does "need" it
I bet that sounds like a great plan to some of you doesn't it?

Marxism 101
Abolishment of private property and only using what you need. Marx didn't appreciate people making/receiving frivolous things that put people in a different class from those who cant afford them.
Such as a 4 bedroom home for 3 people..

EDIT : Credit to fox for reminding me. Progressive taxes are one of the 10 planks of the communist manifesto.

Gee, let's all give three cheers for Plutocracy, when the 1% make all the laws won't this be a great and wonderful utopia?

Isn't that what you say we already have?

 

[NYcarbineer]

It's a better tax system than a flat tax because in relative terms the flat tax reduces taxes on the rich and raises taxes on the not rich.

I'm not comparing it to a flat tax system Moron

I'm asking that if it's good enough for income why not everything else

And I can give you an example of how a flat tax won't reduce the taxes the rich pay

Say you make 10 Million off in investments a year (hilarious I know but bear with me)

Now you can give all kids of money to charity and get a deduction, you can take a mortgage interest deduction etc lowering your income to 7 million a year and you only pay 15% of 7M or 1.05M in taxes

If you paid a flat 12% on ALL the money you earned you would have paid 1.2M in taxes

Capital gains are taxed differently.

Not under the flat tax I have been proposing they aren't

I used capital gains because you were whining that the rich would get a tax cut if we used a flat tax I showed you how they wouldn't

Your incomprehensible example didn't prove anything.

BTW, if you exempt money earned at the bottom in a flat tax system, it's no longer flat. Do you?

SO wait

15% of 7 million as compared to 12% of 10 million is incomprehensible to you?

That's so sad

Go back and lay out your entire tax system, in detail, from which you are pulling the above hypothetical numbers.

 

[Skull Pilot]

The progressive tax taxes brackets at different rates, therefore, by itself, it is a tax system that is the same for everyone.
The money the billionaire earns in the lowest bracket is taxed the same as the person who only has taxable income in the lower bracket.

So what makes dollar 1 million less valuable than dollar 100 so some idiot in DC can tell you you don't need 40% of that millionth dollar but you do need all of that 100th dollar

It is the very definition of subjectivity

The only fair tax is a flat tax

 

[NightFox]

Gee, let's all give three cheers for Plutocracy, when the 1% make all the laws won't this be a great and wonderful utopia?

Newsflash professor; they already do.

Wait.....you're not one of those people that still think that "We the People" are in charge are ya? Do you still believe in Santa Claus too ?

 

[BULLDOG]

You love the progressive tax system don't you?

Why not apply it everywhere?

Because I'm smarter than you are.

That's true, but probably not something to brag about. A pair of old gym socks are smarter than him.

So you won't answer the question either

This is called a debate so tell me why progressive taxes are good for income but not for example sales taxes?

No. This is not a debate. This is a forum where I can laugh at stupid right wing claims. If you understood and accepted the nature of facts, we could debate, but sadly the right has shown that is not possible.

So you're incapable of answering the question
Got it.

No, I'm not interested in wasting time answering questions from you.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

The progressive tax taxes brackets at different rates, therefore, by itself, it is a tax system that is the same for everyone.
The money the billionaire earns in the lowest bracket is taxed the same as the person who only has taxable income in the lower bracket.

So what makes dollar 1 million less valuable than dollar 100 so some idiot in DC can tell you you don't need 40% of that millionth dollar but you do need all of that 100th dollar

It is the very definition of subjectivity

The only fair tax is a flat tax

They don't don't want fair. They want punitive.

 

[TNHarley]

Progressive income taxes are based on the subjective marginal utility analysis that basically says idiots in government can decide if you "need" all the money you make or not and that they are justified in taking the money they decide you don't "need"

Well all of you who love this type of blatantly unfair tax scheme I ask you why stop at income?

Why not use progressive tax schemes for everything that is taxed?

Let's say you own a 4 bedroom home but you and your wife have only 1 kid. You only "need" 2 bedrooms so some moron in your state government can decide that those 2 bedrooms must be taken from you and given to someone else and then inserts 2 people into your home because they "need" those rooms and you don't

What about a vacation home? Surely you don't "need" that if you only use it on occasion.

You and your wife have 2 cars and you have your dream car in the garage you don't need that classic 1969 GTO so why not let the government take it from you to give to someone who does "need" it

I bet that sounds like a great plan to some of you doesn't it?

If you want to argue against imaginary scenarios you need to find some imaginary people to take the other side?

A lefty talking about "imaginary" Classic.

Compared to the idiot in the thread who thinks the progressive income tax is Marxism ?

Let's say you own a 4 bedroom home but you and your wife have only 1 kid. You only "need" 2 bedrooms so some moron in your state government can decide that those 2 bedrooms must be taken from you and given to someone else and then inserts 2 people into your home because they "need" those rooms and you don't
What about a vacation home? Surely you don't "need" that if you only use it on occasion.
You and your wife have 2 cars and you have your dream car in the garage you don't need that classic 1969 GTO so why not let the government take it from you to give to someone who does "need" it
I bet that sounds like a great plan to some of you doesn't it?

Marxism 101
Abolishment of private property and only using what you need. Marx didn't appreciate people making/receiving frivolous things that put people in a different class from those who cant afford them.
Such as a 4 bedroom home for 3 people..

EDIT : Credit to fox for reminding me. Progressive taxes are one of the 10 planks of the communist manifesto.

Gee, let's all give three cheers for Plutocracy, when the 1% make all the laws won't this be a great and wonderful utopia?

I am completely against that but good try lol
I am one of the very few on here that ACTUALLY care. Saying you care and then voting for a goddamn corporatist is shooting yourself in the foot. #CurbGunViolence #DontBeADumbfuck

 

[Skull Pilot]

I'm not comparing it to a flat tax system Moron

I'm asking that if it's good enough for income why not everything else

And I can give you an example of how a flat tax won't reduce the taxes the rich pay

Say you make 10 Million off in investments a year (hilarious I know but bear with me)

Now you can give all kids of money to charity and get a deduction, you can take a mortgage interest deduction etc lowering your income to 7 million a year and you only pay 15% of 7M or 1.05M in taxes

If you paid a flat 12% on ALL the money you earned you would have paid 1.2M in taxes

Capital gains are taxed differently.

Not under the flat tax I have been proposing they aren't

I used capital gains because you were whining that the rich would get a tax cut if we used a flat tax I showed you how they wouldn't

Your incomprehensible example didn't prove anything.

BTW, if you exempt money earned at the bottom in a flat tax system, it's no longer flat. Do you?

SO wait

15% of 7 million as compared to 12% of 10 million is incomprehensible to you?

That's so sad

Go back and lay out your entire tax system, in detail, from which you are pulling the above hypothetical numbers.

My god



In the flat tax system I have been talking about every dollar earned will be taxed at the same rate no matter what the source there will be no deductions at all

can you understand that?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Because I'm smarter than you are.

That's true, but probably not something to brag about. A pair of old gym socks are smarter than him.

So you won't answer the question either

This is called a debate so tell me why progressive taxes are good for income but not for example sales taxes?

No. This is not a debate. This is a forum where I can laugh at stupid right wing claims. If you understood and accepted the nature of facts, we could debate, but sadly the right has shown that is not possible.

So you're incapable of answering the question
Got it.

No, I'm not interested in wasting time answering questions from you.

Then why are you here

run along now little boy

 

[NYcarbineer]

10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production.

So based on the RW 'thinking' in this thread, we should end public education for the poor and bring back child labor,

to rid ourselves of Marxism.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Capital gains are taxed differently.

Not under the flat tax I have been proposing they aren't

I used capital gains because you were whining that the rich would get a tax cut if we used a flat tax I showed you how they wouldn't

Your incomprehensible example didn't prove anything.

BTW, if you exempt money earned at the bottom in a flat tax system, it's no longer flat. Do you?

SO wait

15% of 7 million as compared to 12% of 10 million is incomprehensible to you?

That's so sad

Go back and lay out your entire tax system, in detail, from which you are pulling the above hypothetical numbers.

My god



In the flat tax system I have been talking about every dollar earned will be taxed at the same rate no matter what the source there will be no deductions at all

can you understand that?

IOW you're hawking a fantasy.

You're going to put a $2400 annual income tax on someone making minimum wage of what, 16,000 a year...

lol good one.