Zone1 Why the rosary is a most important prayer/meditation all Christians should say daily

Can a Devout Roman Catholic Be Genuinely Born Again?​





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  • Episode 1162
    February 21, 2018

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Interview with
John Piper


Founder & Teacher, desiringGod.org

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Audio Transcript
The core beliefs and the enshrined practices of Roman Catholicism deeply concerned the Reformers five hundred years ago. Those same concerns remain largely unalleviated for contemporary Protestants today — problems that we still see in the latest teachings of the pope and even in the most up-to-date version of the official catechism of the Catholic Church. It all leads to a question over whether a devout Roman Catholic can be genuinely saved. It comes from a listener named Jimmy.
“Hello, Pastor John. A close friend of mine passed away recently. He was a great man, a good friend, a mentor to many young men like myself, and a devout Roman Catholic. My questions for you are these. Will I see my friend in heaven? Or do his theological views make this impossible? Can I rightfully experience Paul’s ‘sorrowful, yet always rejoicing’ mantra, or was my friend merely a devoted husband, a wonderful friend, and a good man? In other words, do you believe devout Roman Catholics can be genuine Christians?”

Seven Concerns


Before I answer that specific question, let me lay out again the reasons we should be seriously concerned with Roman Catholic teaching. At numerous levels, its contradictory stance toward Scripture produces a kind of religion that I fear has led many people astray, even into destruction.


I do not mean that Roman Catholicism has a corner on that kind of misleading teaching. There are lots of brands of so-called “Christian tradition” that have damaged people by the errors that they represent.


Let me give seven examples of what concerns me about Roman Catholic teaching that I think we should be very concerned about and steer clear of.


1. Tradition Versus Scripture


First, we should be concerned that the Roman Catholic Church elevates the authority of the pope and the church councils (when speaking in their official capacity as teachers of the church) to the same level as Holy Scripture.


This has led many Roman Catholics away from a personal engagement with the Scriptures into a reliance on the church, even though the church is fallible. They ought to be relying on the Scriptures, the very word of God inspired and written.


2. The Virgin Mary


Second, we should be concerned that the blessed virgin Mary (and I have no problem calling her that) is elevated to a position in practice where she mediates between the people of God and the son of God. This undermines the direct priestly ministry of Christ between his people and God.


This elevation of Mary beyond anything in the Scriptures, based solely on church tradition, distances the people of God from the enjoyment of personal fellowship with Jesus and the kind of relationship and assurance they might otherwise enjoy with him.


3. Baptismal Regeneration


Third, we should be concerned about the teaching of baptismal regeneration. The idea that by the very work of putting water on a baby’s head — ex opere operato — by the very operating of the thing itself, the very work of the water in the priestly act causes a change in the nature of the baby from lost in original sin to saved through regeneration.


This notion has produced, I would say, untold ill-founded confidence in the people of God who have little or no personal faith, or relationship with Christ, or love to Jesus. Yet, because of their baptism believe they are heaven-bound.


4. Indulgences


Fourth, we should be concerned about the offering of so-called “indulgences,” which the very present pope himself — not in some distant sixteenth-century past — the present pope himself has offered in our day. It involves certain kinds of pilgrimages, or special buildings, or special payments, which one can perform, or attend, so that an indulgence is granted by the pope, which provides forgiveness of sins.


This is an appalling detraction from the absolute uniqueness of the death of Christ as the provision for sins and personal faith as the means by which that provision becomes ours.


5. Justification


Fifth, we should be concerned about the confusion over the doctrine of justification by grace alone, on the basis of Christ alone, through faith alone, to the glory of God alone.


The Roman Catholic insistence that justification consists in the infusion of righteousness, which as our own virtue qualifies us to be accepted by God, is not the same as the biblical doctrine of God becoming one-hundred percent for us in the moment when by faith we are united with Christ so that his blood and righteousness alone become the ground of that acceptance.


6. The Lord’s Supper


Sixth, we should be concerned about the centrality of the Mass in the Roman Catholic practice. There the bread and wine are actually said to be transubstantiated — they become the physical body and physical blood of Jesus.


The Lord’s Supper takes on a power of salvation by the entering of the blood and the body of Jesus into us, which it never was intended to have in the Bible. It misleads millions of what’s happening there.


7. Purgatory


Finally, we should be concerned about the doctrine of purgatory, in which a person after death may be given another chance of bearing some punishment.


In this view, they can make their way to heaven after doing appropriate penance there. The Bible holds out no such hope for those who die in unbelief. It is not found in the Scriptures.


Grasping Christ


Now, having waved a flag of concern for those seven matters of Catholic belief, my answer to the question, nevertheless, is yes. I think there are genuine Christians who are devout and inconsistent Roman Catholics. Devout in the sense that they’re earnest, serious, and sincere. Inconsistent in the sense that their true heart embrace of Jesus is better than their mental ideas or doctrines.


If a person has a genuine encounter with the living Christ and recognizes the depth of human sinfulness and the hopelessness we are in without grace and without Christ, and if they see in Jesus the substitute that God provided to bear our punishment and provide all we need for acceptance with God, and if that person throws himself on the mercy of Christ, despairing of all self-reliance, and cherishes Christ as his supreme treasure and hope for eternal life, then that person will be saved — even if many doctrinal ideas are confused or erroneous.


In other words, it is possible for a person’s heart and his essential grasp of Christ to be far better than the structures of his doctrinal framework. We may all be very, very thankful for this.
 

Can Roman Catholics be saved?​

by Matt Slick | Nov 22, 2012 | Roman Catholicism, World Religions
Can Roman Catholics be saved? Yes, they can but not if they adhere to Roman Catholic theology. Like anyone else, salvation is found only through faith in Christ alone. Roman Catholics, Mormons, Muslims, etc., are no exception. Salvation is found only by believing the gospel that Jesus died for our sins, was buried, and rose from the dead. This message is received by faith alone, and we can add no works to what Christ has done. This is why the Bible says we are justified by faith (Romans 5:1) without the works of the law (Ephesians 2:8).

However, in Roman Catholicism salvation is not by faith alone in Christ alone. In Roman Catholicism, that which is necessary for salvation includes the church (Catechism of the Catholic Church 846), baptism (CCC 1257), penance (CCC 980), sacraments (CCC 1129), service and witness to the faith (CCC 1816), keeping the ten commandments (CCC 2036, 2068, 2070), and detachment from riches (CCC 2556).

In other words, Roman Catholicism teaches works’ righteousness, and because it does, anyone who seeks salvation in the Roman Catholic system will never find it.

So, Roman Catholics must repent of the false doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church and trust in Christ alone by faith alone for the forgiveness of his or her sins. Only then can Roman Catholics be saved. There is no other way.

  1. “Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.” (Rom. 3:28).
  2. “For what does the scripture say? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.” (Rom. 4:3).
  3. “But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,” (Rom. 4:5).
 
A couple people said that they have no problem with others praying the rosary, but they don't see the need to do it.

I understand that point of view. However, if something is unbiblical or has pagan origins, I think it's important for bible believing Christians to speak the truth about it, especially when it involves a number of things that the bible actually speaks against.

Out of curiosity I looked up videos on praying the rosary, and right off the bat I noticed something that Jesus specifically said not to do.

The women in the video were chanting in a repetitive, religious way (and I've seen my Catholic relatives do the same thing, when they do the hail Mary thing) and that goes directly against Matthew 6:7 where Jesus specifically says "when you pray, do not use vain repetitions..."

There are a number of other problems with praying the rosary. If it partially involves praying to Mary, that is another thing that is unbiblical. Then there's the "Holy Queen" thing, which is something else to stay far away from. Slightly off topic but I'll post an excellent documentary below about the deception that goes along with that. It's a long documentary but very, very interesting.

I could write a list of biblical problems with praying the rosary, and maybe I will, when I have the time. Those are just a few.

 
Oh my goodness! I know this was already stated in the OP, but I guess when I first read the OP I skimmed over it quickly, and now, since I did a little looking into the origin of rosary beads, I just realized something amazing. :omg:

The documentary I posted above is about the deception of "Marian apparitions" that have happened worldwide, and it goes into depth on how and WHY it's a deception.

So, as the OP stated, rosary beads originated from an alleged apparition of Mary in the city of Fatima...

This is from a Catholic website:

On May 13, 1917, Mary appeared to three shepherd children in Fatima, Portugal. She told them to come back to that exact place on the 13th day of each month for the next six months. Mary promised she would appear to them each time and entrust a message to them.
Mary told the children to pray for world peace by reciting the rosary every day. On July 13, 1917, Mary asked the children to add a short prayer to the end of each decade of the rosary:
O my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of hell; lead all souls to heaven, especially those in most need of thy mercy.
Today this is referred to as the Fatima prayer, and many Catholics incorporate it into the rosary as Mary requested.

So now, when I put this all together.... how the rosary involves a number of actions that are unbiblical, how it has a pagan background (historically, prayer beads are used by pagans, Hindus, Muslims and other false religions) and NOW, realizing that the Catholic version of prayer beads and the rosary originated from an alleged apparition (watch that documentary about those apparitions) now I think the tradition of rosary beads is more than merely unbiblical. It's a spiritual deception, from the enemy.

Before I get tarred and feathered, it's not my intention to offend our Catholics here. The thing is, truth should always be the most important thing, above tradition, church dogma, or one's own pre-existing beliefs. If you think what I've stated here is false, then make your case scripturally (not just one scripture) and refute the points I brought up here. Thanks.
 
who said it is a requirement?

Although, the way the world is now, it looks like it should be.

And to Mary, it was a requirement. She told the boy she appeared to in 1917 at Fatima that he would have to pray many rosaries to get to Heaven..

a CHILD!

so let's see... Adults over the age of about 18 probably need to pray millions of rosaries.

Oh well... I love spending time with the Holy Family and meditating on the beautiful life and teachings of our Lord
If saying the Rosary was that important, I’m sure it would have been mentioned in the New Testament.

However, I have no problem with those who say it. If you are right and I am wrong, you will be way ahead of me when it comes to getting to heaven.
 
Where in he Bible does it say that in 2024 a man named Trump will be the front runner for the Republicans... etc etc..

I mean, get real

The Bible as we know it wasn't even around until the printing press was invented in 1440. The Church Christ founded WAS around and had been for 1440 plus years
The experts really don’t know when the Gospels were written or for that matter who really wrote them. For centuries the Catholic Church was the main source of knowledge about the Gospel and the other books in the New Testament. The printing press allowed people who could read to study the Bible. In my opinion that was a good thing as it took a lot of power away from the Catholic Church.

Knowledge is power.
 
Where in he Bible does it say that in 2024 a man named Trump will be the front runner for the Republicans... etc etc..

I mean, get real

The Bible as we know it wasn't even around until the printing press was invented in 1440. The Church Christ founded WAS around and had been for 1440 plus years
The New Testament is mainly an instruction manual on being a good Christian. It does contain prophecy but it is not like Nostradamus”s Quatrains which are prophecies.
 
so why did Jesus die on the cross then?
Spot on. Absolutely the best question. If we could work our way to Heaven, why would Christ need to die?

Gal. 2:21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law,(works) then Christ died needlessly.

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
 
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The New Testament is mainly an instruction manual on being a good Christian. It does contain prophecy but it is not like Nostradamus”s Quatrains which are prophecies.
Nostradamus believed that Christ was his savior. And may have had insight. But his prophesies were vague compared to God's prophets, and the prophesies of Christ. They are specific.
1/4 of the Bible is prophecy. That's so we would know that God is exactly who He says He is. Man can't tell me who will win the next Kentucky Derby. But God can see the end from the beginning and proved it by telling us the future. 2,500 prophesies and He hasn't been wrong yet. There are only about 500 end time prophesies left to be fulfilled. And we are barrelling toward their fruition.

e.g. 2,000 years ago He told us that the earth would coalesce into one world government. And that the result of that would be catastrophic.
And, here I am going to vote in next election to try to stall that from happening by the New World Order's target date of 2030. It will happen, but I am hoping for a little time left for the freedom of my children.
 
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Nostradamus believed that Christ was his savior. And may have had insight. But his prophesies were vague compared to God's prophets, and the prophesies of Christ. They are specific.
1/4 of the Bible is prophecy. That's so we would know that God is exactly who He says He is. Man can't tell me who will win the next Kentucky Derby. But God can see the end from the beginning and proved it by telling us the future. 2,500 prophesies and He hasn't been wrong yet. There are only about 500 end time prophesies left to be fulfilled. And we are barrelling toward their fruition.

e.g. 2,000 years ago He told us that the earth would coalesce into one world government. And that the result of that would be catastrophic.
And, here I am going to vote in next election to try to stall that from happening by the New World Order's target date of 2030. It will happen, but I am hoping for a little time left for the freedom of my children.
So who do you plan to vote for?
 
OK, first there is Fatima 1917 when the Virgin appeared to the 3 children who were shepherding sheep.
She told them to pray the rosary for sinners who are on their way to Hell, which according to my information is 99% of the human race.
She told the one boy, can't recall his name, that he would/could also go to Heaven like the others, but that he would "have to pray many rosaries"
Wow... If even a CHILD has to pray many rosaries to get to Heaven--!
How much more imperative is it that we adults do so?

Matthew 6:7: But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
 
Oh my goodness! I know this was already stated in the OP, but I guess when I first read the OP I skimmed over it quickly, and now, since I did a little looking into the origin of rosary beads, I just realized something amazing. :omg:

The documentary I posted above is about the deception of "Marian apparitions" that have happened worldwide, and it goes into depth on how and WHY it's a deception.

So, as the OP stated, rosary beads originated from an alleged apparition of Mary in the city of Fatima...

This is from a Catholic website:

On May 13, 1917, Mary appeared to three shepherd children in Fatima, Portugal. She told them to come back to that exact place on the 13th day of each month for the next six months. Mary promised she would appear to them each time and entrust a message to them.
Mary told the children to pray for world peace by reciting the rosary every day. On July 13, 1917, Mary asked the children to add a short prayer to the end of each decade of the rosary:
O my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of hell; lead all souls to heaven, especially those in most need of thy mercy.
Today this is referred to as the Fatima prayer, and many Catholics incorporate it into the rosary as Mary requested.

So now, when I put this all together.... how the rosary involves a number of actions that are unbiblical, how it has a pagan background (historically, prayer beads are used by pagans, Hindus, Muslims and other false religions) and NOW, realizing that the Catholic version of prayer beads and the rosary originated from an alleged apparition (watch that documentary about those apparitions) now I think the tradition of rosary beads is more than merely unbiblical. It's a spiritual deception, from the enemy.

Before I get tarred and feathered, it's not my intention to offend our Catholics here. The thing is, truth should always be the most important thing, above tradition, church dogma, or one's own pre-existing beliefs. If you think what I've stated here is false, then make your case scripturally (not just one scripture) and refute the points I brought up here. Thanks.
Like most everything else the Catholic Church embrac s, it has pagan origins and violates the clear word of Jesus Christ to AVOID repetitive prayer.

In praying, don't use vain repetitions, as the Gentiles do; for they think that they will be heard for their much speaking.
 

Roman Catholic View of Mary​


The Roman Catholic Church claims that praying the Rosary properly venerates Mary since they claim,


Mary has by grace been exalted above all angels and men to a place second only to her Son, as the most holy mother of God who was involved in the mysteries of Christ: she is rightly honored by a special cult in the Church. From the earliest times the Blessed Virgin is honored under the title of Mother of God, whose protection the faithful take refuge together in prayer in all their perils and needs.[3]


Mary is also considered by Catholics to be a co-mediator and a co-redeemer. The Roman Catholic Church states that the Rosary encompasses the gospel. Praying the Rosary is also said to provide special graces and protection against various evils, including false teaching. Praying the Rosary is said to provide partial removal of the punishment that we deserve for our sins while we are here on earth. Roman Catholic doctrine also teaches that a person can earn a complete “relief” from all stored up punishment at the time of praying the Rosary, receiving the sacraments of confession, receiving the Eucharist, and offering prayers for the Pope. That is a brief overview of the Roman Catholic Rosary. However, it is important to know that other religions use the rosary also.


Does the Bible Mention the Rosary?​


Does the Bible refer to the Rosary? The answer is no! The concept of praying the Rosary using a string of beads, is never mentioned in Scripture because it is a human invention. It is not biblical and it is not of God. The Roman Catholics defend the “prayer of the Rosary” by showing that some phrases can be found in the Bible, but most of the “Hail Mary” prayer and “Hail Holy Queen” prayer cannot be found in the Bible. In fact, parts of the prayers are not only unbiblical; they are absolutely heretical.


Hail Mary Prayer​


For example in the “Hail Mary” prayer, the phrases “full of grace,” “Holy Mary,” and “Mother of God” are never said of Mary in the Bible. The phrase “Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb . . .” can be found in the Bible in Luke 1:42. “Hail, Mary” is the greeting the angel used in Luke 1:28 in the KJV. In the prayer, the request for Mary to “pray for sinners” is not biblical.


Hail Holy Queen Prayer​


The entire prayer called the “Hail Holy Queen” prayer is unbiblical. A few examples of statements that cannot be found in the Bible are “Hail Holy Queen,” “Mother of Mercy,” “To thee we send up our sighs,” “most gracious advocate” and “Holy Mother of God.”


The Bible says that Jesus is our advocate in 1 John 2:1.




Scripture never refers to Mary as being our advocate. This means that the Roman Catholic Church falsely teaches that Mary is our advocate when in truth only Jesus is our Advocate. The Roman Catholic Church is teaching false doctrine.


The Bible Says to Worship Only God​


Additionally, the Bible encourages us to pray to God and not to men or women. Jesus encouraged us to pray to the Father in Matthew 6:9-13. Jesus never encouraged us to pray to Mary. To pray to anyone other than God is a violation of the second of the Ten Commandments. We are not to worship anyone other than God. For example, in Acts 10:24-26 we read that a Gentile called Cornelius had bowed and worshipped Peter. Notice Peter’s reply.




Peter said, “Stand up; I too am just a man.” Mary was just a woman. Another example is Acts 14:13–15. Here a group of pagans fell down and worshipped the apostle Paul. Notice how Paul responded.




Just as Peter did, Paul stopped them from worshipping him.


In Matthew 4:10, Jesus tells Satan that we are to worship only God. That is, no one should bow down and worship Mary, and they should not pray to her either. It is a sin to worship and pray to Mary. The behaviors associated with “venerating Mary” are identical to acts of worship.


What the Bible Teaches About Mary​


In addition, Mary was not holy. In Mary’s prayer, “The Magnificat,” Mary calls God her “Savior.” The prayer is found in Luke 1:46-55. Mary states that she needs a Savior and calls God her Savior. Since only sinners need a Savior, Mary admits in prayer to God that she was a sinner in need of a Savior. She said this just after Jesus was conceived in her womb. Jesus, the holy Son of God, was born without a sin nature. In contrast, Mary was not immaculately conceived.


Finally, it is amazing that the Roman Catholic Church has adopted the title “Queen of Heaven” for Mary since the title occurs five times in the Bible in reference to a pagan goddess. Each time it is applied to the idols of the goddesses called “Ashtoreth,” “Astarte” and to the wife of Baal or Molech (Jeremiah 7:17–19; 44:16–27).[4] Why did the Roman Catholic Church give the name of an idol to Mary? It may be that God allowed that to happen to further reveal that Roman Catholicism is a false religion.


In summary, praying the Rosary does not provide forgiveness of our sins, give relief from punishment, or provide certain graces; nor does it give us victory over hell. Praying the Rosary is a deceptive practice that cannot be found in the Bible. It is heretical.


Does the Bible Teach Praying to Mary?​


The Bible never teaches us to pray to Mary. One cannot find any verses that encourage us to pray to Mary. There are no verses that say anyone prayed to Mary. But we do find Jesus encouraging us to pray to God the Father in Matthew 6:9-15. The Lord’s Prayer is found in this passage of Scripture. The studies, “Lord’s Prayer” and “The Lord’s Prayer,” will provide wonderful insights into how to pray to God the Father. There are many examples of the early Christians being encouraged to pray to God the Father and also examples of prayer to the Father (Acts 16:25; 2 Corinthians 13:7; Philippians 4:6; Colossians 1:3; Hebrews 13:15).


We also find an example of the martyr Stephen praying to Jesus when he was being stoned to death in Acts 7:59-60. But we cannot find any examples of prayers to the Holy Spirit. They do not exist. In addition, there are no examples of prayers to the saints or deceased family members.


Prayer is an act of worship of God. Hebrews 4:16 encourages us to go to the throne of grace so that we may receive mercy and find grace. It does not tell us to go to Mary. Prayer is an act of humility since we seek help from God. We must remember that the definition of the Greek word for prayer, proseuche, refers to an address made to God. Therefore, anyone who prays to Mary commits blasphemy. It is blasphemy to pray to anyone other than God the Father and the Son of God.


Conclusion:​


The Rosary is a pagan practice – not a Biblical one. The Rosary cannot be found in the Bible. The Rosary promises benefits which it cannot provide. The Rosary is doctrinal error since God has already given us different directions for prayer.


If you are a Christian, did you know that God has already forgiven all of your sins? If you are depending on Jesus to forgive your sins, then God has forgiven you and considers you to be holy. Listen to this wonderful verse.




Did you notice that Christians are the temple of God and that He considers us to be holy? Did you know that God already considers or views you to be in heaven?




God considers Christians to be spiritually seated in heaven while we are physically still here on earth. Positionally, we are in heaven even while we are still on earth. God has already forgiven ALL of your sins even though you still sin. He has already forgiven all of your past sins, present sins, and your future sins. But that does not mean you are free to sin. A true Christian will not want to sin since it is offensive to Jesus. In fact, if we sin and do not admit or confess that we have sinned, God will start disciplining us.


It is wonderful to know that God restores the sweetness of our fellowship with Him when we simply confess our sins. Confession is not begging God to forgive our sins. God does not forgive us because we have done some form of penance or suffered in some way in this life. Confession literally means “to admit.” God asks us to humble ourselves by admitting that we are sinners and by naming those sins we have committed. He forgives us because He has promised to forgive us. When we confess our sins to Him, the Holy Spirit ceases to be grieved and is then free to control us. Men have added penance and a Rosary. Why should we suffer more when Jesus suffered on the cross for us 2,000 years ago? Are you struggling with some past sin or sins? If so, maybe this will help from a gentleman already in Heaven.


I wonder why Protestants think God would suddenly stop teaching 2000 years ago. The bible says to honor Mary. Few Protestants follow that biblical admonition. In fact they seem hostile to it. Why?
 
For the op it turned into something that children can't get into Heaven without. Do you believe that too, Meriweather?
I mentioned before that the elements of the Rosary are the heart of the Bible message, the heart of the Gospel message. All the world has been redeemed.

Love of God and his ways are the ways of salvation that begin here on earth and continue into heaven. God's arms draw us into heaven. If our own hearts are filled with God's messages, that is what matters. I believe atheists are in heaven, never mind children, so most don't give me much credence on this point. Catholic teaching is that God does not throw people into hell, people choose hell--i.e., better described as an eternity without God.

Mary has made several appearances in these last centuries, which were surely the will of God, and just as certainly it via God's will that Mary asked people to pray the rosary for peace and for the salvation of souls. This suggests that we do have a part to play in assisting others on their way of salvation. If Mary says praying the rosary assists, then I am happy to assist. I have seldom, if ever, prayed the rosary for myself, I dedicate it to the intentions of Mary to assist as they may in her work. The power I gain from the rosary are from meditations that center on the Bible and Gospel messages. Ours is a wondrous story.

Is the rosary necessary? No more so than a car when we are capable of walking. Certainly there is no reason to discard (or worse) denigrate it.
 
I wonder why Protestants think God would suddenly stop teaching 2000 years ago. The bible says to honor Mary. Few Protestants follow that biblical admonition. In fact they seem hostile to it. Why?
Does the Bible say to pray to a dead woman awaiting the Resurrection of the Dead?
 

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