Why Was No One Armed & Shooting Back In El Paso WalMart ?

[Brain357]

A shooter is going to make sure there is no one behind him. No one has ever had the chance to shoot a shooter and there is a reason. Because you never see him coming. He has the plan, you don't. In a public arena, there is no way to stop someone who wants to do what this shooter did. No amount of security. He is going to shoot someone before he is shot

TOTAL NONSENSE!

How many mass shootings you been in so far?

 

[JimBowie1958]

Except for this manifesto that was posted on the 8 chan site it would appear that this was a call to his brothers on the far right.

Meh, if the people in the store had anybody allowed to carry concealed, this wouldn't have happened there.

These cowards only go for soft targets. They don't have the balls to go after anyone that can shoot back.

Where are the gun toting folks at? Are you saying that none of the gun carrying folks shop at Wal Mart.

No, I am saying that the mall the Wallmart was located in did not permit concealed carry handguns.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

These two situations are not similar at all and besides, the average concealed weapon licensee is not trained for an active shooter event.

Something I found very interesting although I cannot currently find the webpage is that the state of Florida used to have posted on their information site for concealed carry that a CCW permit is only a license to carry, not to use your weapon. While this might at first seem to be contradictory, if you think about it makes perfect sense. If is up to the license holder to be intimately familiar with the laws regarding lawful self-defense and defense of another. Furthermore a CCW doesn't grant the license holder police powers which far too many people seem to believe is now their right to try to police other people's behavior. Additionally, CCW holders are trained to avoid confrontation and to remove themselves from violent and escalating situations first and foremost.

As for trained, what trained to do what ? You point and shoot. CCW carriers in Florida are required to take training before being licensed, and many like myself are also ex-military.

The implications of using a deadly weapon to kill someone goes far beyond just surviving a gunfight, there then is the stress and financial cost of the fight to retain your freedom and dealing with the psychological impact of having taken someone's life. There are good reasons for simply focusing on getting yourself and your loved ones out of harms way and there is no one who can fault anyone for doing so.

FALSE! If you are a CCW carrier, and are armed, and you have position advantage enough to take out an active mass shooter, you should do that.

Furthermore, you appear to be ignorant regarding Florida CCW and self-defense law. A CCW holder does not need police powers to shoot a mass shooter. Shooting that mass shooter is covered under Florida's self-defense law.

Under Section 776.012, Florida Statutes (Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” Law), a person is justified in using deadly force (and does not have a duty to retreat) if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony or to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another.

I find it interesting that you claim that the El Paso shooting and LAX are you say >> "not similar at all" What a ridiculous thing to say. If course they are similar. In both cases, a terrorist entered a building filled with people, and started shooting. And you say these are not similar at all ? Are you feeling OK ?

What is the job of the security officer at the airline counter?
And what is the job of a security guard at a mall?

What is the difference in how you would defend the airline counter & personnel versus how you would attempt to defend a Walmart superstore/mall?

 

[JimBowie1958]

FALSE! If you are a CCW carrier, and are armed, and you have position advantage enough to take out an active mass shooter, you should do that.

The hell you SHOULD. The police are the only people who are required to act but apparently they have some discretion to not do so if it's not tactically practical.

Who trained you by the way?

Lol, I have had more training on armed security posts than most rentacops or no-can-shoot deputies.

US Army Infantry, Wackenhut, and other places I am not supposed to say.

YES, take out the fucking shooter if you can get a safe shot with no one on the other side of the shooter, and carry hollw point rounds so they don't bounce around all over the place.

 

[protectionist]

Who on the Left has expressed happiness over this or the Dayton massacre happening? Name them for us.

When Beto was responding to it, he was laughing.

1:09 on the video's time bar.

Trump and 2020 Democrats respond to El Paso shooting

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

If it's concealed why would it be?

Now open carry, that's a bit different

In the LAX incident, Hadayet WAS DETERRED from shooting all those (dozens, if not hundreds) he would have shot, if the good guy with a gun had not instantly shot and killed him.

Same argument as the deterrence of the death penalty. The dead killer kills no more. Deterred from killing again. Get it ?

The security officer "protecting" the counter wasn't even armed.

 

[Brain357]

Except for this manifesto that was posted on the 8 chan site it would appear that this was a call to his brothers on the far right.

Meh, if the people in the store had anybody allowed to carry concealed, this wouldn't have happened there.

These cowards only go for soft targets. They don't have the balls to go after anyone that can shoot back.

Where are the gun toting folks at? Are you saying that none of the gun carrying folks shop at Wal Mart.

No, I am saying that the mall the Wallmart was located in did not permit concealed carry handguns.

El Paso shooting witness describes trying to help kids escape as gunman opened fire

A shopper said he tried to scoop up many children at the mall in El Paso, Texas, where a gunman opened fire Saturday at a Walmart. At least 20 people were killed, Texas Gov. Greg Abbott told reporters.

The shopper, Glendon Oakley, described himself as a member of the military who has a license to carry a firearm. He said he pulled out his weapon as he heard gunfire echo through Cielo Vista Mall, which abuts the Walmart.

 

[protectionist]

I'm guessing next election, we'll be paying attention to who is getting money from the NRA.

The NRA does nothing more than be a watchdog for 2nd amendment rights

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

The Constitution doesn't tell the people what they can and can't do.

It tells the government what it can and can't do.

So does it tell the Gov't it can't ban assault rifles?

Yes. It does.

Obviously not since it has been done before.

That wasn't the Constitution. That was the SCOTUS's interpretation of what the Constitution says.

Wrong...try reading Heller, they go through the history and legal statutes from England, the Colonies and the early states...nothing you posted is accurate or true.

Are you stating that Heller is not a Supreme Court interpretation of what the U.S. Constitution states?

District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570, is a landmark case in which the Supreme Court of the United States held that the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to possess a firearm, ...
District of Columbia v. Heller - Wikipedia​

 

[protectionist]

So pro gun loons make up a study and you make it look like it is the FBI. Shocking. Are you ever not lying?

What could be more self-evident than having the best defense against bad guys with guns, being good guys with guns ? Yet. Democrats turn it into a big debate over studies. They are just study obsessed. (and they think we're all on board with them that way)

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Oh Lord, you're ARMED lol?!?

Correct. And able to defend myself et al. With 2 honorable discharges from the US Army and Army National Guard.

Oh Lord, you're UNarmed ? Well, it's YOUR life. if you choose to gamble with it..... Not my problem.

Who trained you? And I've seen some of Uncle Sam's work before & I'm not impressed.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The El Paso Walmart shooter killed 20 people (so far) and wounded 26 more. He may well have fired some shots missing people also. It's pretty fair to say this nut fired at least 50 shots, and very possibly well more than that.

It takes quite some time to fire that many shots individually, as this guy did, walking aisle to aisle, through the store. If there had been an armed security guard, or any armed citizen with a CCW license, this guy could have (and should have) been stopped cold after the first 2 or 3 shots.

As someone who has a CCW license, and is armed 99% of the time, when I'm walking around outside, it is amazing to me that there could have been that many people walking around unarmed and defenseless. Why? Don't they know something like this could happen at any time ?

In contrast, in 2002, a Muslim terrorist (Hesham Mohamed Hadayet) walked into Los Angeles Airport (LAX) armed with 2 handguns, plus magazines loaded with dozens of bullets. He shot and killed 2 people, and wounded 4. The airport was filled with people. The terrorist was shot dead right on the spot, by a security guard who was armed and ready to deal. Without that good guy with a gun, the airport would have been a bloodbath, just like this WalMart, and probably even worse.

This ARMED DEFENSE is what should have been the case in El Paso. How this guy could pull off what he did without getting shot, by a guard or CCW carrying citizen is mind boggling.

2002 Los Angeles International Airport shooting - Wikipedia

Okay, let's unpack this.

First, though some gun carriers may watch too much tv (and so think they are going to take out the bad guys, get the girl, go to commercial), mostly they will look to get themselves and their companions to safety, just like the rest of us. That's the smart thing to do.

Second, gun carriers are at a decided disadvantage against someone who goes into a school, or store, or crowd, and starts shooting everyone. While the shooter doesn't discriminate in his targets, the legal carrier will (and should). When hysterical people are fleeing in every direction, when echoes make it hard to determine how many shooters there are and where they are, when other gun carriers may be doing what you are doing (and you don't want to shoot them, right?), it makes for an untenable situation.

Third, most people just don't want to carry a gun.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

FALSE! If you are a CCW carrier, and are armed, and you have position advantage enough to take out an active mass shooter, you should do that.

The hell you SHOULD. The police are the only people who are required to act but apparently they have some discretion to not do so if it's not tactically practical.

Who trained you by the way?

Lol, I have had more training on armed security posts than most rentacops or no-can-shoot deputies.

US Army Infantry, Wackenhut, and other places I am not supposed to say.

YES, take out the fucking shooter if you can get a safe shot with no one on the other side of the shooter, and carry hollw point rounds so they don't bounce around all over the place.

Yeah but you're not Protectionist. Big difference

 

[debbiedowner]

Except for this manifesto that was posted on the 8 chan site it would appear that this was a call to his brothers on the far right.

Meh, if the people in the store had anybody allowed to carry concealed, this wouldn't have happened there.

These cowards only go for soft targets. They don't have the balls to go after anyone that can shoot back.

Where are the gun toting folks at? Are you saying that none of the gun carrying folks shop at Wal Mart.

No, I am saying that the mall the Wallmart was located in did not permit concealed carry handguns.

Where's your proof? I have researched a good couple hours and no where can I find they or the mall are gun free zones.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

Democrats call for an emergency session of Congress to once and for all deal with the "Gun Violence" issue.

Trump declares 'hate has no place in our country,' as Dems demand recall of Congress
Trump declares 'hate has no place in our country,' as Dems demand recall of Congress
As the president spoke, top Democratic presidential candidates -- including Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, and Cory Booker -- demanded Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell recall Congress from its recess, currently slated to last until the second week of September, to address gun violence. They did not elaborate on their legislative plans for such a special session.

Addressing reporters in Morristown, New Jersey, Trump promised "we're going to take care" of the problem. He said he's been speaking to the attorney general, FBI director and members of Congress and will be making an additional statement Monday morning.

Is Trump about to cave in to Democrats and issue a new ban on certain long guns?

 

[Brain357]

So pro gun loons make up a study and you make it look like it is the FBI. Shocking. Are you ever not lying?

What could be more self-evident than having the best defense against bad guys with guns, being good guys with guns ? Yet. Democrats turn it into a big debate over studies. They are just study obsessed. (and they think we're all on board with them that way)

WE have the most good guys with guns in the world and yet we have the most gun death.

 

[Brain357]

Democrats call for an emergency session of Congress to once and for all deal with the "Gun Violence" issue.

Trump declares 'hate has no place in our country,' as Dems demand recall of Congress
Trump declares 'hate has no place in our country,' as Dems demand recall of Congress
As the president spoke, top Democratic presidential candidates -- including Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, and Cory Booker -- demanded Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell recall Congress from its recess, currently slated to last until the second week of September, to address gun violence. They did not elaborate on their legislative plans for such a special session.

Addressing reporters in Morristown, New Jersey, Trump promised "we're going to take care" of the problem. He said he's been speaking to the attorney general, FBI director and members of Congress and will be making an additional statement Monday morning.

Is Trump about to cave in to Democrats and issue a new ban on certain long guns?

Lets hope.

 

[WinterBorn]

It's Texas, so of course there were plenty of "good guys with a gun" they just didn't want to go up against an assault weapon with a little pistol. So much for the NRA's good guy with a gum BULLSHIT.

HA HA. The posts are getting dumber and dumber. The rifle the shooter had was a semi-automatic single shot weapon, same as any semiautomatic pistol. At a close range, it has no advantage over a pistol, which will get you just as dead as the rifle will. No charge for the tutoring.

No advantage? Other than being easier to shoot accurately and having higher magazine capacity than most pistols, and having much better ballistics, you might be right.

 

[WinterBorn]

It certain situations it is fine.

But if you take any serious firearms course and the topic comes up, they will tell you NOT to draw a weapon and try to confront the shooter until you are sure what is going on, who is doing the shooting, and how many people are doing it.

Was there ever any question about that ?

Not from me. But you, apparently expect a largely untrained civilian to be able to determine how many shooters there are, where the shooters are, and shoot them accurately despite your heartbeat racing and absolute panic filling you.

 

[WinterBorn]

Should I engage in a shoot out with that guy with an AK-47 or should I exit that door?

First you secure yourself in COVER. Then you start peppering the assailant with shots at a distance of less than 20 feet. When he's lying on the floor dead, you'll need not worry about exiting. (or thinking about being a coward)

If you see him before he sees you.