Will We See Serial Killers in Heaven?

[daws101]

I love it when people allegedly of faith think their version is better than the bible.

as they are both fiction why should it matter?

 

[koshergrl]

If you believe that, I put the same question to you...if you believe it's fiction, what does it matter to you?

 

[daws101]

If you believe that, I put the same question to you...if you believe it's fiction, what does it matter to you?

like I said it's fiction no belief required..

 

[BreezeWood]

If you believe that, I put the same question to you...if you believe it's fiction, what does it matter to you?

... if you believe it's fiction

your Forgiveness doctrine ?


what is sin if there is no victim ? without a victim does one require forgiveness - for an event that was not of their making ?


was JC chosen by God as being the only person of the time to have no victims for which to have required salvation - and played the role not knowing the inevitable outcome, Crucifixion in lieu of purity, to his dismay of forsakeness by the prodding provided by God ?


what is the Christians concept for Victims rater than the forgiveness they offer the "sinner" -

can Dohmer reach heaven without those he sinned against, as any one of them perished before their own salvation ?

 

[The Irish Ram]

Here's why:
Christian's believe that Christ died for their sins.

‘Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?’ - ‘My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?’”


JC did not die of a free will - he was killed.

or, those who call themselves Christians are the same who did nothing to stop the Crucifixion and perpetuate that Injustice to the present day - employing rather their own self-adorning scriptures at the expense of the Victim(s).

the same as those of Dohmer


* is it self preservation ? - the reason Christians believe Dohmer could reach heaven ...

No, it's the grace of God that makes it possible. We already know we are preserved, and self has nothing to do with it.

Christ always called our Father Abba, or "Dad". There is only one time He called Him God. That is the verse you quoted. And the reason for that was, when Christ was on that cross, he was a murder, a liar, a thief, you, me, the person reading this. God can't look upon sin and had to turn away, not from Christ, but from all of our filth He was carrying.
That was us muttering that phrase.

Had He not been sentenced to death and hung on that cross, He would have climbed up there and nailed Himself to it. It was His mission on earth. It's why He came. When He said, "It is finished", He didn't mean His life, He meant His and our Father's plan of redemption. His life kept right on going.

 

[Kooshdakhaa]

Will we have taste buds in heaven?

IF we drink in Heaven, will we get buzzed?

Is there any reason to want to get buzzed in Heaven?

I prefer Scotch.

Will there be good quality Scotch in heaven?

Here is a quote from the book "spirit teachings" By Stainton Moses.

"The cravings of the body are not extinct, though the power to gratify them is withdrawn. The drunkard retains his old thirst, but exaggerated; aggravated by the impossibility of slacking it."

That sounds more like Hell than Heaven!

 

[Kooshdakhaa]

Do you love your bad kid less than your good one?

Of course we don't.

I was raised a Catholic, therefore Christian. I struggle with my faith. A couple of years ago I read a book called "The Shack" by William Young and I found it comforting. It explained a lot of the things that are being discussed here in a way that made sense.

Your comment brought it to mind, because that very point was made in the book. God loves us ALL, the bad and the good. We are ALL His children. Would he love us any less than we love our own children?

Actually I think of my dogs...I have five of them. My oldest dog, a doberman, I got when she was six weeks old. She has a mind of her own and was quite a challenge to raise. She questioned my authority on many occasions and tested my patience many times. And yet I love her best. : )

 

[JoeB131]

Serial Killer Jeffrey Dahmer: Christian in Heaven with Jesus - The Landover Baptist Church Forum

Will We See Serial Killers in Heaven?​

One can be forgiven for a sin, if one practices that sin they are not forgiven. So no you won't have any serial killers on earth after the return. By the way only 144000 go to Heaven and they are not serial killers either.

Oh? Jehovah's Witness, eh?

Someone asked me to be a Jehovah's Witness, and I said I didn't see the accident.

Anyway, I have to wonder about this aspect of the JW's. If they truly and sincerely believe there are only 144,000 seats in Heaven, why do they spend so much time going door to door trying to convert people. It's like they are limiting their own chances to get in, right?

 

[JoeB131]

I think this whole discussion shows why Christian Doctrine is so messed up.

Yes, if you believe this nonsense, and you think Dahmner was TRULY sincere in his repentence, he went to heaven.

Further, if you believe you can only get into heaven if you accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, then Ann Frank is burning in hell right now for being a Jew. Right next to the Nazis who killed her, no doubt.

A God this seriously messed up is not worthy of anyone's worship.

 

[The Irish Ram]

It really has nothing to do with what you or I think. Our job is, don't judge Jeffrey Dahmer. God's job is to see His heart.

Ann Frank is in Heaven, and will be returning with Christ.
She belongs to the God of her fathers, Abraham, who was God's friend.

We have a God that seriously loves us.

 

[BreezeWood]

Here's why:
Christian's believe that Christ died for their sins.

‘Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?’ - ‘My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?’”


JC did not die of a free will - he was killed.

or, those who call themselves Christians are the same who did nothing to stop the Crucifixion and perpetuate that Injustice to the present day - employing rather their own self-adorning scriptures at the expense of the Victim(s).

the same as those of Dohmer


* is it self preservation ? - the reason Christians believe Dohmer could reach heaven ...

No, it's the grace of God that makes it possible. We already know we are preserved, and self has nothing to do with it.

Christ always called our Father Abba, or "Dad". There is only one time He called Him God. That is the verse you quoted. And the reason for that was, when Christ was on that cross, he was a murder, a liar, a thief, you, me, the person reading this. God can't look upon sin and had to turn away, not from Christ, but from all of our filth He was carrying.
That was us muttering that phrase.

Had He not been sentenced to death and hung on that cross, He would have climbed up there and nailed Himself to it. It was His mission on earth. It's why He came. When He said, "It is finished", He didn't mean His life, He meant His and our Father's plan of redemption. His life kept right on going.

And the reason for that was, when Christ was on that cross, he was a murder, a liar, a thief, you, me, the person reading this.

the Christians falsely believe God bestowed all to be sinners - rather only the search for knowledge / answers for the pathway to the Everlasting could result in a derision of sinning.

what you say Christ was on the cross is not true - those (a murder, a liar, a thief, ...) will not reach Heaven as God is the very "reason" why - the True Religion differentiates through Christ as a purity without sin the accomplishment necessary to reach the OuterWorld of the Everlasting through Deeds, not Forgiveness.


‘Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?’ - Carpenters are often the last to know ...


Dohmer is Dead.

 

[The Irish Ram]

‘Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?’ - ‘My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?’”


JC did not die of a free will - he was killed.

or, those who call themselves Christians are the same who did nothing to stop the Crucifixion and perpetuate that Injustice to the present day - employing rather their own self-adorning scriptures at the expense of the Victim(s).

the same as those of Dohmer


* is it self preservation ? - the reason Christians believe Dohmer could reach heaven ...

No, it's the grace of God that makes it possible. We already know we are preserved, and self has nothing to do with it.

Christ always called our Father Abba, or "Dad". There is only one time He called Him God. That is the verse you quoted. And the reason for that was, when Christ was on that cross, he was a murder, a liar, a thief, you, me, the person reading this. God can't look upon sin and had to turn away, not from Christ, but from all of our filth He was carrying.
That was us muttering that phrase.

Had He not been sentenced to death and hung on that cross, He would have climbed up there and nailed Himself to it. It was His mission on earth. It's why He came. When He said, "It is finished", He didn't mean His life, He meant His and our Father's plan of redemption. His life kept right on going.

And the reason for that was, when Christ was on that cross, he was a murder, a liar, a thief, you, me, the person reading this.

the Christians falsely believe God bestowed all to be sinners - rather only the search for knowledge / answers for the pathway to the Everlasting could result in a derision of sinning.

what you say Christ was on the cross is not true - those (a murder, a liar, a thief, ...) will not reach Heaven as God is the very "reason" why - the True Religion differentiates through Christ as a purity without sin the accomplishment necessary to reach the OuterWorld of the Everlasting through Deeds, not Forgiveness.


‘Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?’ - Carpenters are often the last to know ...


Dohmer is Dead.

“Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!”

Deeds are for rewards, forgiveness of sin is a gift from God, through Christ.
If we could do it ourselves, Christ wouldn't be necessary. God would have given Adam the Law and a cheery, "Good luck, you're on your own......."

Even the pharisees who followed the letter of the law, and considered themselves the holiest, couldn't cast the first stone, because deep down, they knew the Law didn't make them sin free.

Law or lawless, we all fall short. That's why while Christ was on that cross, your name came up.
So did Dahmer's.

 

[daws101]

It really has nothing to do with what you or I think. Our job is, don't judge Jeffrey Dahmer. God's job is to see His heart.

Ann Frank is in Heaven, and will be returning with Christ.
She belongs to the God of her fathers, Abraham, who was God's friend.

We have a God that seriously loves us.

another nice piece of fanciful fiction.

 

[Dajjal]

The spirit world say that we are our own judges, and serial killers will one day realize the extent of what they have done, and they will condemn themselves to the hell they have created in their minds. This is one reason why we reincarnate and have no memory of past lives. For many of us the sins of past incarnations would drive us insane. We only remember all our past incarnations when we have achieved enlightenment and need no further incarnations, and at that stage we have to forgive ourselves all that we may have done in past lives. We may suffer for things we don't even remember, but the angels of karma know what we need.

The angels of karma guide the soul into an incarnation that will best serve the needs of that soul so a serial killer can expect some harsh experiences, that are not so much a punishment as a means to purge the soul and teach it compassion for others.

I got all this information from attending many trance lectures by famous mediums in the 1970s. I attended trance lectures by Grace Cook, founder of White Eagle lodge, and Ivy Northage, and Ursular Roberts, the teachings of all of whom can be found on the Internet though I believe they are all now dead.

 

[BreezeWood]

No, it's the grace of God that makes it possible. We already know we are preserved, and self has nothing to do with it.

Christ always called our Father Abba, or "Dad". There is only one time He called Him God. That is the verse you quoted. And the reason for that was, when Christ was on that cross, he was a murder, a liar, a thief, you, me, the person reading this. God can't look upon sin and had to turn away, not from Christ, but from all of our filth He was carrying.
That was us muttering that phrase.

Had He not been sentenced to death and hung on that cross, He would have climbed up there and nailed Himself to it. It was His mission on earth. It's why He came. When He said, "It is finished", He didn't mean His life, He meant His and our Father's plan of redemption. His life kept right on going.

the Christians falsely believe God bestowed all to be sinners - rather only the search for knowledge / answers for the pathway to the Everlasting could result in a derision of sinning.

what you say Christ was on the cross is not true - those (a murder, a liar, a thief, ...) will not reach Heaven as God is the very "reason" why - the True Religion differentiates through Christ as a purity without sin the accomplishment necessary to reach the OuterWorld of the Everlasting through Deeds, not Forgiveness.


‘Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?’ - Carpenters are often the last to know ...


Dohmer is Dead.

“Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!”

Deeds are for rewards, forgiveness of sin is a gift from God, through Christ.
If we could do it ourselves, Christ wouldn't be necessary. God would have given Adam the Law and a cheery, "Good luck, you're on your own......."

Even the pharisees who followed the letter of the law, and considered themselves the holiest, couldn't cast the first stone, because deep down, they knew the Law didn't make them sin free.

Law or lawless, we all fall short. That's why while Christ was on that cross, your name came up.
So did Dahmer's.

"Good luck, you're on your own......."


you are deceived to believe anything but the above - in your pursuit of the Everlasting.

only who sins is a sinner.

 

[The Irish Ram]

You couldn't be farther from the truth Breezie.
This is how close our Father stays to us:

Psalm 139, "O Lord, You have searched me and known me. You know my sitting down and my rising up; You understand my thought afar off. You comprehend my path and my lying down, And are acquainted with all my ways. For there is not a word on my tongue, But behold, O Lord, You know it altogether. You have hedged me behind and before, And laid Your hand upon me. Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; It is high, I cannot attain it. Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence? If I ascend into heaven, You are there; If I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there. If I take the wings of the morning, And dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea, Even there Your hand shall lead me, And Your right hand shall hold me....
How precious also are Your thoughts to me, O God! How great is the sum of them! If I should count them, they would be more in number than the sand; When I awake, I am still with You."

I don't know who runs the Everlasting Hotel, but the God of Abraham promises this:

God is not far from each one of us. Acts 17:27
"I am with you always, even to the end of the world". Matthew 28:20
"He Himself has said, I will never leave you nor forsake you." Hebrews 13:8
If you draw close to Me, I will draw close to you. James 4:8

But most of all, He acts like any good Dad would with his little child:

For I am the Lord, your God, who takes hold of your right hand and says to you, Do not fear; I will help you. Isaiah 41:13

You're in a pursuit of the "Everlasting" Breeze, and I hope you don't have to work to hard to get there.
As for me, Christ solidified my everlasting almost 2,000 years ago, so for now, I just let my Dad hold my hand and keep me safe.

 

[JohnA]

Here's why:
Christian's believe that Christ died for their sins. So the question you need to ask them is, did Christ also die for Mrs. Dahmer's little boy Jeffrey too? If the answer is yes, and Jeffrey, at some point in his life, sincerely asks God to forgive him, and he accepts the gift of salvation that Christ offered him, will he be forgiven, just like the rest of us?

And then ask them if God opened the gates of Heaven for Jeffrey's sake, or for the sake of His Son, Jesus, who was sitting at God's right hand at the time of Dahmer's arrival saying, "It's ok Dad, I paid his debt. His sins are as far from him as the east is from the west".

Are all of our sins little pink ones, hardly worth mentioning?
Don't want judged? Don't judge. Your future will be so much brighter if you just surrender that job the the One in charge.

is that so what abut the mother .father / family etc of the little boys dahmer killed what does the heavenly father say to them **stop whinning ive forgiven him so STFU *

 

[JohnA]

Here's why:
Christian's believe that Christ died for their sins. So the question you need to ask them is, did Christ also die for Mrs. Dahmer's little boy Jeffrey too? If the answer is yes, and Jeffrey, at some point in his life, sincerely asks God to forgive him, and he accepts the gift of salvation that Christ offered him, will he be forgiven, just like the rest of us?

And then ask them if God opened the gates of Heaven for Jeffrey's sake, or for the sake of His Son, Jesus, who was sitting at God's right hand at the time of Dahmer's arrival saying, "It's ok Dad, I paid his debt. His sins are as far from him as the east is from the west".

Are all of our sins little pink ones, hardly worth mentioning?
Don't want judged? Don't judge. Your future will be so much brighter if you just surrender that job the the One in charge.

and your god forgives those who are mortal to if they follow the rules
go to a church sit in a closet with a window .
the man the other side who wears a dress asked what sin you commited
you tell him he gives you some prayers to say to a non existent mother of somebody also non existent and you give him MONEY

the church gets richer
you feel better ( then go and do it again )
the victim still has no compensation and has no say in the matter .
the priest then properly goes and abuses a small boy and is forgiven by the hiaracy and hidden away from the public.


what a farce
whos fooling who ??

 

[Kooshdakhaa]

It really has nothing to do with what you or I think. Our job is, don't judge Jeffrey Dahmer. God's job is to see His heart.

Ann Frank is in Heaven, and will be returning with Christ.
She belongs to the God of her fathers, Abraham, who was God's friend.

We have a God that seriously loves us.

Yep, in the book, "The Shack," the man asks God what will happen to the man who kidnapped and murdered his little girl. God basically says, "You need not concern yourself with that, I will attend to him." And you can tell that God will attend to the matter PERFECTLY...He will do exactly what is right. It is beyond our ken, and not something for us to worry about. I think when and if we meet God, it will all make much better sense. Which is what happened to the man in the book. God saw how he suffered so after the murder of his child, and God reached out to him and gave him a bit of enlightenment that usually might not come until after death. To help him cope.

I think some of us find that enlightenment in this life through our own searching, without God whisking us away for a weekend to The Shack where our child was murdered.

Great book. And I'm the skeptical sort and struggle with my beliefs.

 

[Kooshdakhaa]

Here's why:
Christian's believe that Christ died for their sins. So the question you need to ask them is, did Christ also die for Mrs. Dahmer's little boy Jeffrey too? If the answer is yes, and Jeffrey, at some point in his life, sincerely asks God to forgive him, and he accepts the gift of salvation that Christ offered him, will he be forgiven, just like the rest of us?

And then ask them if God opened the gates of Heaven for Jeffrey's sake, or for the sake of His Son, Jesus, who was sitting at God's right hand at the time of Dahmer's arrival saying, "It's ok Dad, I paid his debt. His sins are as far from him as the east is from the west".

Are all of our sins little pink ones, hardly worth mentioning?
Don't want judged? Don't judge. Your future will be so much brighter if you just surrender that job the the One in charge.

and your god forgives those who are mortal to if they follow the rules
go to a church sit in a closet with a window .
the man the other side who wears a dress asked what sin you commited
you tell him he gives you some prayers to say to a non existent mother of somebody also non existent and you give him MONEY

the church gets richer
you feel better ( then go and do it again )
the victim still has no compensation and has no say in the matter .
the priest then properly goes and abuses a small boy and is forgiven by the hiaracy and hidden away from the public.


what a farce
whos fooling who ??

You don't have to go to the confessional at a Catholic Church and give money to the Church in order to be forgiven your sins. Only God can forgive your sins.

I was raised a Catholic but I think of the confessional as symbolic. By taking the trouble to go to confession I am showing God I am truly sorry. I made an effort. But it's not necessary to do that. Sincerity is more important than ritual.

My Irish grandfather was dying of cancer and they called the priest to see him. He was not a Catholic, but he confessed a lifetime of sins to the priest, including a lot of drinking and carousing with loose women. But he said to the priest, I'm afraid I can't honestly say I'm sorry for a lot of these sins! The priest thought for a moment and then he said, "Well, Neal, can you at least say that you're sorry that you're not sorry?" My grandfather agreed and we all expect to see him in Heaven.

That is supposedly a true story, my Mom told me and she was there when the priest came to see her father.

It's really between God and each person. And if I make it to Heaven and see Jeffery Dahmer there, I don't think I'll be grilling God about it. I mean, really!