Winning the Creation Debate

[DukeU]

False. Even if we learned everything about the beginning of the universe, anyone could just say "God did it!". One would still not be able to rule out creation.

That's the luxury of playing the magic card.

Come on dude, this is the science section.

That's the best you got?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Come on dude, this is the science section.

That's the best you got?

Too good for you to meet head on, apparently.

So, more than good enough. Maybe someone more capable will meet it head on.

No, science and reason cannot rule out magic. Not ever.

You can point at anything and everything and say God did it.

It adds nothing. It explains nothing. It yields no useful predictions.

It affects nothing at all.

 

[DukeU]

Too good for you to meet head on, apparently.

So, more than good enough. Maybe someone more capable will meet it head on.

No, science and reason cannot rule out magic. Not ever.

You can point at anything and everything and say God did it.

It adds nothing. It explains nothing. It yields no useful predictions.

It affects nothing at all.

It adds an answer where science has failed to explain.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

It adds an answer where science has failed to explain.

It adds no answer. It replaces a mystery with an even bigger mystery. It explains nothing. It yields no useful predictions.

 

[Yarddog]

*the best anyone has

Hers just a random thought, does consciousness depend on physical matter? is conciousness/ self awareness, simply a process of chemical reactions? or is it free of the physical realm?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Hers just a random thought, does consciousness depend on physical matter? is conciousness/ self awareness, simply a process of chemical reactions? or is it free of the physical realm?

Matter and energy? Or are you deeming energy to be nonphysical, for this question?

Not a gotcha, just affects the question and the answer.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Hers just a random thought, does consciousness depend on physical matter? is conciousness/ self awareness, simply a process of chemical reactions? or is it free of the physical realm?

One problem with questions like this...

Anything that can affect the physical IS, itself physical. Pretty much by definition. Because we can measure its effect on the physical. Now we have a force to identify and name. A physical force, to add to our lexicon of the physical.

So consciousness as any kind of agent of the physical must itself be physical.

 

[Yarddog]

Matter and energy? Or are you deeming energy to be nonphysical, for this question?

Not a gotcha, just affects the question and the answer.

Im actually not deeming any outcome on this, but the question is just a curious one to me and I was just asking to see what is your opinion and thoughts. No Judgement on that.

But does thought and consciousness actually take energy? Im not sure. If consciousness is no different than simple microorganisms communicating through chemical codes as part of their survival mechanism, only much more advanced in humans.... then that would be one train of thought in the direction of pure evolution.

But on the other hand, if thought and conciousness was somehow free of the physical, then could thought have existed before the universe as we know it was creeated, or even before matter and the elements had taken form?

If that was the case then the train of thought shifts towards creation by intent of thought and then if there was thought... was there also language? as the one thing I do remember being mentioned in biblical creation was that it started with the "word"

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Im actually not deeming any outcome on this, but the question is just a curious one to me and I was just asking to see what is your opinion and thoughts. No Judgement on that.

But does thought and consciousness actually take energy? Im not sure. If consciousness is no different than simple microorganisms communicating through chemical codes as part of their survival mechanism, only much more advanced in humans.... then that would be one train of thought in the direction of pure evolution.

But on the other hand, if thought and conciousness was somehow free of the physical, then could thought have existed before the universe as we know it was creeated, or even before matter and the elements had taken form?

If that was the case then the train of thought shifts towards creation by intent of thought and then if there was thought... was there also language? as the one thing I do remember being mentioned in biblical creation was that it started with the "word"

What is a thought, other than the biochemical activities and bioelectrical potentials in your brain?

I think we just happen to have introspective self awareness. We can "think about our thoughts". And we describe them. We can describe the physical experience of having happy ones, sad ones, etc.

That doesn't change what they are.

 

[Yarddog]

What is a thought, other than the biochemical activities and bioelectrical potentials in your brain?

I think we just happen to have introspective self awareness. We can "think about our thoughts". And we describe them. We can describe the physical experience of having happy ones, sad ones, etc.

That doesn't change what they are.

Ok well another thought is, does the universe tend to fall into chaos? or does it fall into some sort of order? or is what we see as order in the universe actually chaos? The Mayans were able to set their civilization in accordance to some celestial observations.... that would hint towards order, yet in the grander scheme of the universe does science see it all as being random?

I see one attaching thread from the creation theory of the ancient Hebrews to what we may see as order in the universe or at least our solar system. I feel that their idea that Something and everything could be made from the "spoken" WORD ..as in the will of God, to be quite unique and advanced compared to other creation theories I've seen with other civilizations... and then if one was to assume the universe WAS brought into being by some all knowing conciousness..... wouldnt that thread extend into the fact that the universe as we know it runs like some very predictable clock? or does it?
And if it does, then how is it possible that order could simple happen all on its own? even to the very atoms and molecuels that lock enough energy to create a nuclear bomb.
It seems like the vast amount of energy that exists is just mind boggling when it cant be accounted for where it originated from.