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You think there was no abortion at the time of the founders?What did liberals do that was so offensive to the conservatives? Liberals got women the right to vote. Liberals got African-Americans the right to vote. Liberals created Social Security and lifted millions of elderly people out of poverty. Liberals ended segregation. Liberals passed the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act. Liberals created Medicare. Liberals passed the Clean Air Act, the Clean Water Act.What did Conservatives do? They opposed them on every one of those things. So when you try to hurl that label at my feet, Liberal, as if it were something to be ashamed of, something dirty, something to run away from, it wont work, because I will pick up that label and I will wear it as a badge of honor. -Lawrence ODonnell Jr.
Liberals have murdered 30,000,000 American babies.....didn't want you to miss that one.
I think arguing about how our founding fathers felt about abortion is a bit silly.
I'm personally against abortion but I don't remember seeing any views on the issue expressed by our founding fathers. I know there is a strong temptation to believe that our own personal views were shared by our founders and that somehow makes our own views more valid or something.
It's just a fantasy of self promotion.
Our founders were brilliant and courageous. But they were far from perfect. If you want to argue that the United States of America should be relegated to an 18th Century society, you're dipping your bucket in a dry well here.
The main reason abortion was not allowed before the era of antibiotics are medical reasons.
It is a very risky procedure without them
Women have always received abortions back when and now. Your comment merely reveals how silly you are that anyone would take your word as credible on the subject.
Vox, you can post credible evidence. I would suggest it because you can spout and pout and be a little tea pot all you want, but you clearly are ignorant on this matter.
You are so dumb you do not know when antibiotics were first discovered by Fleming? WOW. I can post the whole textbooks of pharmacology,microbiology and obstetrics here, but it won't change you level of stupidity.
no, all you need to read is census.gov.
if you understand statistics.
if you are too dumb - you need someone to chew them up for you.
which means the chewer will add their own spices and the result might be the opposite from what pure statistics show.
Horse crap, son. My cite is fine and the stats are accurate. census.gov, while good, does not clearly explain why stats are off because some states (like CA) refuse to give complete reports if it all.
Now quit being ignorant of the matter.
Vox, you can post credible evidence. I would suggest it because you can spout and pout and be a little tea pot all you want, but you clearly are ignorant on this matter.
You are so dumb you do not know when antibiotics were first discovered by Fleming? WOW. I can post the whole textbooks of pharmacology,microbiology and obstetrics here, but it won't change you level of stupidity.
No one cares what you can post because everyone knows that abortion has been a part of women's history from the beginning.
Pharma can affect it, but certainly it did not begin it or increase it.
Women have always had abortions.
You begin your education on this subject here: BBC - Ethics - Abortion: Historical attitudes to abortion
I think arguing about how our founding fathers felt about abortion is a bit silly.
I'm personally against abortion but I don't remember seeing any views on the issue expressed by our founding fathers. I know there is a strong temptation to believe that our own personal views were shared by our founders and that somehow makes our own views more valid or something.
It's just a fantasy of self promotion.
Our founders were brilliant and courageous. But they were far from perfect. If you want to argue that the United States of America should be relegated to an 18th Century society, you're dipping your bucket in a dry well here.
The main reason abortion was not allowed before the era of antibiotics are medical reasons.
It is a very risky procedure without them
there were no mass abortions for much more palpable reasons - severe risks of morbidity and mortality of the women undergoing it.
there were no mass abortions for much more palpable reasons - severe risks of morbidity and mortality of the women undergoing it.
Can you give substantial evidence that you are correct. Do you even know the %s of abortions in the last twenty years on which to make some suggestions about colonial times, or Tudorian times, or Roman times?
If you can make credible assertions with solid support, then we should listen to you. .. but you have not.
there were no mass abortions for much more palpable reasons - severe risks of morbidity and mortality of the women undergoing it.
Can you give substantial evidence that you are correct. Do you even know the %s of abortions in the last twenty years on which to make some suggestions about colonial times, or Tudorian times, or Roman times?
If you can make credible assertions with solid support, then we should listen to you. .. but you have not.
first provide evidence there were MASS ABORTIONS at that time, then demand something on the contrary.
maybe you can find a chewing site
Can you give substantial evidence that you are correct. Do you even know the %s of abortions in the last twenty years on which to make some suggestions about colonial times, or Tudorian times, or Roman times?
If you can make credible assertions with solid support, then we should listen to you. .. but you have not.
first provide evidence there were MASS ABORTIONS at that time, then demand something on the contrary.
maybe you can find a chewing site
Basic discussion requires the one who makes the affirmation (no mass abortion in ye olden tymes, for instance, has to support it with credible evidence. Only THEN does refutation with facts have to be made.
Why do you far right reactionary social traditionalists have such a hard time understanding that?
first provide evidence there were MASS ABORTIONS at that time, then demand something on the contrary.
maybe you can find a chewing site
Basic discussion requires the one who makes the affirmation (no mass abortion in ye olden tymes, for instance, has to support it with credible evidence. Only THEN does refutation with facts have to be made.
Why do you far right reactionary social traditionalists have such a hard time understanding that?
Jake - you are right. The burden of proof is on the person making the claim.
It is silly to say X=Z unless you provide some evidence to prove otherwise. If you can't, then I am right by default.
I don't mean to butt in, but I don't understand how this argument pertains to how our founding fathers would react to 2013 America.
Hey you guys enjoy these boards the way you want.
first provide evidence there were MASS ABORTIONS at that time, then demand something on the contrary.
maybe you can find a chewing site
Basic discussion requires the one who makes the affirmation (no mass abortion in ye olden tymes, for instance, has to support it with credible evidence. Only THEN does refutation with facts have to be made.
Why do you far right reactionary social traditionalists have such a hard time understanding that?
Jake - you are right. The burden of proof is on the person making the claim.
It is silly to say X=Z unless you provide some evidence to prove otherwise. If you can't, then I am right by default.
I don't mean to butt in, but I don't understand how this argument pertains to how our founding fathers would react to 2013 America.
Hey you guys enjoy these boards the way you want.
Can you give substantial evidence that you are correct. Do you even know the %s of abortions in the last twenty years on which to make some suggestions about colonial times, or Tudorian times, or Roman times?
If you can make credible assertions with solid support, then we should listen to you. .. but you have not.
first provide evidence there were MASS ABORTIONS at that time, then demand something on the contrary.
maybe you can find a chewing site
Basic discussion requires the one who makes the affirmation (no mass abortion in ye olden tymes, for instance, has to support it with credible evidence. Only THEN does refutation with facts have to be made.
Why do you far right reactionary social traditionalists have such a hard time understanding that?
Early feminists abhorred abortion.
The early leaders of the feminist movement were against abortion.
The radical feminist Susan B. Anthony referred to abortion as "child murder" and viewed it as a means of exploiting both women and children.
Alice Paul, who drafted the original version of the Equal Rights Amendment, referred to abortion as "the ultimate exploitation of women."
BBC - Ethics - Abortion: Early feminists
In other words, you two have no idea whether mass abortions existed prior to modern medicine or not.
Got it.
Back to the OP: do you think the Founders would approve of state-regulated abortion laws?
