Would Trumps tariffs work?

[Brain357]

Trump is telling everyone we need tariffs to protect our manufacturing. All evidence I have seen points to it being a disaster. Here is a great link on the subject:
Everything Trump Says About Trade With China Is Wrong
America has real problems, and Americans are right to be upset with our political class and worried about their future. The Chinese government is also certainly no angel when it comes to trade (far from it). But anger and fear shouldn’t blind them to the facts.

Trump’s China trade plan is, at best, an empty threat.
In this case, the facts are clear: Trump’s China trade plan is, at best, an empty threat that no one—especially the Chinese government—takes seriously because it’s so obviously bereft of economic, legal, and moral foundation.

Even if the plan is nothing more than a ridiculous talking point, it still deserves our mockery and derision because it feeds the well-worn myth that America’s problems are caused by cheating foreigners and easily solved through protectionism. This myth helps Big Government politicians and their cronies avoid—like President Obama did with Solyndra—blame for the failures of their retrograde statism and corruption.

Trump’s protectionism deludes desperate voters into eschewing fundamental—and often difficult—reforms and instead supporting policies that actually make things worse. Trump’s plan is thus as pernicious as it is ridiculous, and it’s long past time for Americans to move on.


What evidence is there that trumps tariffs would work?

 

[Agit8r]

About as well as Smoot-Hawley

 

[Wyatt earp]

No

It's just stupid campaign bullshit..


But hey vote for the wicked witch of the west see if I care



.

 

[NOLA Gator]

He is telling China, Stop manipulating your currency OR will take away your advantage.

So, you are for doing nothing? How's that working for ya?

 

[owebo]

Just using them as a threat will work....

 

[Timmy]

AmericAns love buying China's shit!

 

[Brain357]

He is telling China, Stop manipulating your currency OR will take away your advantage.

So, you are for doing nothing? How's that working for ya?

How is taxing US consumers punishment for China? When did conservative start believing higher taxes is good for an economy?

 

[Brain357]

Just using them as a threat will work....

Threatening to tax our citizens is going to make China tremble?

 

[Dragonlady]

Just using them as a threat will work....

No it won't. Because it's an empty threat and the Chinese know it. Trump uses these kinds of scorched earth tactics in his business negotiations (20% of something is better than 100% of nothing), but it doesn't work in international trade. Tariffs would violate all sorts of trade agreements and companies would just find other markets.

 

[owebo]

He is telling China, Stop manipulating your currency OR will take away your advantage.

So, you are for doing nothing? How's that working for ya?

How is taxing US consumers punishment for China? When did conservative start believing higher taxes is good for an economy?

When democrats started shipping our jobs overseas to mask inflation....

 

[Brain357]

He is telling China, Stop manipulating your currency OR will take away your advantage.

So, you are for doing nothing? How's that working for ya?

How is taxing US consumers punishment for China? When did conservative start believing higher taxes is good for an economy?

When democrats started shipping our jobs overseas to mask inflation....

When was that?

1980s to presentEdit
The GOP under Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush abandoned the protectionist ideology, and came out against quotas and in favor of the GATT/WTO policy of minimal economic barriers to global trade. Free trade with Canada came about as a result of the Canada-U.S. Free Trade Agreement of 1987, which led in 1994 to the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA). It was based on Reagan's plan to enlarge the scope of the market for American firms to include Canada and Mexico. President Bill Clinton, with strong Republican support in 1993, pushed NAFTA through Congress over the vehement objection of labor unions.[59][60]

Tariffs in United States history - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[owebo]

Just using them as a threat will work....

No it won't. Because it's an empty threat and the Chinese know it. Trump uses these kinds of scorched earth tactics in his business negotiations (20% of something is better than 100% of nothing), but it doesn't work in international trade. Tariffs would violate all sorts of trade agreements and companies would just find other markets.

Because another third world shithole country will quickly step up to become the largest consumer economy in the world...

 

[owebo]

He is telling China, Stop manipulating your currency OR will take away your advantage.

So, you are for doing nothing? How's that working for ya?

How is taxing US consumers punishment for China? When did conservative start believing higher taxes is good for an economy?

When democrats started shipping our jobs overseas to mask inflation....

When was that?

1980s to presentEdit
The GOP under Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush abandoned the protectionist ideology, and came out against quotas and in favor of the GATT/WTO policy of minimal economic barriers to global trade. Free trade with Canada came about as a result of the Canada-U.S. Free Trade Agreement of 1987, which led in 1994 to the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA). It was based on Reagan's plan to enlarge the scope of the market for American firms to include Canada and Mexico. President Bill Clinton, with strong Republican support in 1993, pushed NAFTA through Congress over the vehement objection of labor unions.[59][60]

Tariffs in United States history - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's for you....

 

[irosie91]

He is telling China, Stop manipulating your currency OR will take away your advantage.

So, you are for doing nothing? How's that working for ya?

hello nola------fret not-----as you and I know---the concept of TARIFF----for the benefit of industry and trade AT HOME is
nothing new-----its been going on for Millennia -----if Trump scratched his head----detractors on this board would vilify "HEAD SCRATCHING"----it's called, in common parlance----
"groping in the muck"

 

[Brain357]

Just using them as a threat will work....

No it won't. Because it's an empty threat and the Chinese know it. Trump uses these kinds of scorched earth tactics in his business negotiations (20% of something is better than 100% of nothing), but it doesn't work in international trade. Tariffs would violate all sorts of trade agreements and companies would just find other markets.

Because another third world shithole country will quickly step up to become the largest consumer economy in the world...

It would hurt our manufacturing.

It Would Hurt Businesses and Workers, Too
Individuals wouldn’t be the only ones screwed by the Trump tariff. American businesses (and their many workers) would also be hit. Because almost half of what we import from China is industrial supplies and materials or non-automotive capital goods (i.e., inputs used by American manufacturers), many of these firms would pay more for the things they need to remain globally competitive. These higher costs, of course, also mean fewer employees, if not outright bankruptcy.

 

[DGS49]

China has accumulated a mountain of wealth (hard currency and treasury instruments) largely through the exploitation of what is essentially slave labor. The actual production workers are paid, but only a pittance compared to the economic value of what they produce, with the excess going to China's "One Percenters" and to the government.

With this mountain of cash, China is able to subsidize its major industries, ensuring that, when it is economically beneficial, they can acquire the most up-to-date production facilities. As a result, not only is China able to produce goods for international trade at very low cost, but also it is often of the highest quality. Parenthetically, the Chinese also take pains to acquire the TECHNOLOGY that is behind these German, Italian, American, and other capital goods, so that in the future they can build them on their own.

Finally, China suppresses the value of its currency, which enhances the competitiveness of its goods in the world markets.

This is "fair" trade?

The Free Trade supporters in this country point to the high quality and low prices of Chinese-made goods, claiming that these relatively low prices actually benefit Americans by freeing up money for other stuff that stimulates our economy indirectly. Happy, happy, right? Do we want $50 bluejeans made in China or the same bluejeans made in Los Angeles for $150? Honestly, now.

What Trump is suggesting is that we need to develop our trade policies in such a way that we are not abandoning our manufacturing base to save a few bucks. Incentivize manufacturing here. Where there is real harm to our production infrastructure, erect a few barriers. It seems like nobody in Washington current thinks like this.

 

[Brain357]

China has accumulated a mountain of wealth (hard currency and treasury instruments) largely through the exploitation of what is essentially slave labor. The actual production workers are paid, but only a pittance compared to the economic value of what they produce, with the excess going to China's "One Percenters" and to the government.

With this mountain of cash, China is able to subsidize its major industries, ensuring that, when it is economically beneficial, they can acquire the most up-to-date production facilities. As a result, not only is China able to produce goods for international trade at very low cost, but also it is often of the highest quality. Parenthetically, the Chinese also take pains to acquire the TECHNOLOGY that is behind these German, Italian, American, and other capital goods, so that in the future they can build them on their own.

Finally, China suppresses the value of its currency, which enhances the competitiveness of its goods in the world markets.

This is "fair" trade?

The Free Trade supporters in this country point to the high quality and low prices of Chinese-made goods, claiming that these relatively low prices actually benefit Americans by freeing up money for other stuff that stimulates our economy indirectly. Happy, happy, right? Do we want $50 bluejeans made in China or the same bluejeans made in Los Angeles for $150? Honestly, now.

What Trump is suggesting is that we need to develop our trade policies in such a way that we are not abandoning our manufacturing base to save a few bucks. Incentivize manufacturing here. Where there is real harm to our production infrastructure, erect a few barriers. It seems like nobody in Washington current thinks like this.

What trump is proposing doesn't work, so no Washington doesn't think like that.

 

[Syriusly]

Trump is telling everyone we need tariffs to protect our manufacturing. All evidence I have seen points to it being a disaster. Here is a great link on the subject:
Everything Trump Says About Trade With China Is Wrong
America has real problems, and Americans are right to be upset with our political class and worried about their future. The Chinese government is also certainly no angel when it comes to trade (far from it). But anger and fear shouldn’t blind them to the facts.

Trump’s China trade plan is, at best, an empty threat.
In this case, the facts are clear: Trump’s China trade plan is, at best, an empty threat that no one—especially the Chinese government—takes seriously because it’s so obviously bereft of economic, legal, and moral foundation.

Even if the plan is nothing more than a ridiculous talking point, it still deserves our mockery and derision because it feeds the well-worn myth that America’s problems are caused by cheating foreigners and easily solved through protectionism. This myth helps Big Government politicians and their cronies avoid—like President Obama did with Solyndra—blame for the failures of their retrograde statism and corruption.

Trump’s protectionism deludes desperate voters into eschewing fundamental—and often difficult—reforms and instead supporting policies that actually make things worse. Trump’s plan is thus as pernicious as it is ridiculous, and it’s long past time for Americans to move on.


What evidence is there that trumps tariffs would work?

Great article.
I thought this quote was particularly relevant- and apt:

He even freely admits the goal of his policy is to force American businesses and families to subsidize (by paying higher prices) that small minority of American manufacturers who directly compete with China. So not only is Trump saying that he knows better than us about what we should be consuming, but Trump’s also saying that because we just can’t help but buy cheap Chinese goods (“Ooh, they’re so cheap and plastic-y”), he has no choice but to enlist the full force of the federal government to stop us from harming ourselves.

President Trump will tell us to pay more for less in order to line the pockets of a select few because we’re dumb and helpless and can’t be trusted to make the decisions that he, and he alone, deems “fair.” It’s for our own good, you see.

Now please someone—anyone—explain to me how this is a conservative, or even Republican, policy? (Spoiler: it’s not.)


At Best, This Plan Is Stupid

 

[Syriusly]

He is telling China, Stop manipulating your currency OR will take away your advantage.

So, you are for doing nothing? How's that working for ya?

The article directly addresses that Trump rallying cry

You’d also know that Chinese “currency manipulation” is not a serious problem for the United States (probably never was), and that even the most aggressive U.S. currency hawks now acknowledge that China is not hurting the United States by keeping the yuan artificially low. Indeed, China’s “cunning” economic planners are currently struggling to keep their currency from falling, not—as Trump seems to think—from rising. So if Beijing relented to Trump’s fantastical threats and let the market dictate its currency, the result would be a weaker yuan, not a stronger one, as Trump confidently claimed last Thursday night.

 

[Syriusly]

China has accumulated a mountain of wealth (hard currency and treasury instruments) largely through the exploitation of what is essentially slave labor. The actual production workers are paid, but only a pittance compared to the economic value of what they produce, with the excess going to China's "One Percenters" and to the government..

While at one time that meme might have been somewhat accurate, it is no longer so.

Chinese workers now have freedom to change employers, and Chinese factories are experiencing labor shortages as workers choose to work either at better paying factory jobs, or less strenuous office/retail jobs. And wages are going up- Chinese workers are better paid than those of Vietnam, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh- all popular alternatives for manufacturing other than China.

I am no fan of the Chinese government, but the reality is that in the last 10 years the economic landscape in China has changed and the Chinese people themselves are wealthier.

There are other issues of course- pollution is horrible in China- because the government allows industry to pollute on a grand scale- a classic example of an economy with no government regulation of pollution.