YES, America CERTAINLY WAS FOUNDED as a CHRISTIAN NATION...

[UltimateReality]

Seriously? Our legal standard was based in Christianity.

And blackstone's views were shaped by the legal practices of ancient Rome, ancient Greece, and the germanic tribes who meandered into Italy from around 100 BCE, all of whose legal systems predated the birth of Christ by centuries. The pagan germanic tribes developed the practice of wereguild which is foundational to our system of civil law in this country. The Romans and Greeks practiced trial by jury and developed practices such as the accused being entitled to a legal defender and appointed judges. Your lack of historical knowledge on the subject is readily apparent.

Our constitution and declaration of independence were most informed by enlightenment ideals, not Christian ones.

Do you have any idea what happened to Rome after Christ's death and Resurrection?

 

[UltimateReality]

Ulitmate seems very unbalanced and very interested in lesbianism, as if that is important at all.

Very creey, and UR is obiviously someone who offers little of worth to the discussion.

Please. Now you are resorting to Ad Hominem attacks to discredit the information which you have no rebuttal for. Nice try.

 

[UltimateReality]

UR was a police officer. Heavens help the citizens.

Yep, decorated too, without a single blemish on my perfect record. Any more Ad Hominem attacks you would like to bring while you are at it?

 

[UltimateReality]

Show us where in the Constitution that the law was based on the Bible.

Our law is based on Greco-Roman law and Jewish-Christian culture, not on religious texts.

This is what I am saying. Sharia is not part of that tradition.

 

[UltimateReality]

The Law of Twelves Tables and Justinian, separated by a thousand years, are proof that America has a Bible based legal system?

Oh, my goodness, Uncensored.

While you are at it being so dang smart, please tell me what date the Ten Commandments were originated? Christianity flows from a Judeo-Christian Tradition. Half our book is the same. Islam is also a spin off, founded by the bastard child of Abraham.

 

[UltimateReality]

Our Supreme Court said that we are a Christian Nation in 1892.

If we pass beyond these matters to a view of American life, as expressed by its laws, its business, its customs, and its society, we find everywhere a clear recognition of the same truth. Among other matters note the following: The form of oath universally prevailing, concluding with an appeal to the Almighty; the custom of opening sessions of all deliberative bodies and most conventions with prayer; the prefatory words of all wills, "In the name of God, amen;" the laws respecting the observance of the Sabbath, with the general cessation of all secular business, and the closing of courts, legislatures, and other similar public assemblies on that day; the churches and church organizations which abound in every city, town, and hamlet; the multitude of charitable organizations existing everywhere under Christian auspices; the gigantic missionary associations, with general support, and aiming to establish Christian missions in every quarter of the globe. These and many other matters which might be noticed, add a volume of unofficial declarations to the mass of organic utterances that this is a Christian nation.

I'm afraid you're not reading what you posted.

"... add a volume of unofficial declaration..."


Judges do not make law, they interpret law. The FF's established a separate branch of government for law making. You should have learned that in a civics class.

The constitution has established that the U.S. is a secular nation with no religious preference.

Hollie, guess you missed the part pointing out the difference between government and nation. Please keep the lying and fraud to a minimum.

 

[JakeStarkey]

UR has failed to provide substantive evidence for his arguments.

Bodecea and Holli have had no trouble in showing his failure.

Move along, UR.

 

[UltimateReality]

James Madison on separation of church/state:

The civil Government, though bereft of everything like an associated hierarchy, possesses the requisite stability, and performs its functions with complete success, whilst the number, the industry, and the morality of the priesthood, and the devotion of the people, have been manifestly increased by the total separation of the church from the State (Letter to Robert Walsh, Mar. 2, 1819).

Strongly guarded as is the separation between religion and & Gov't in the Constitution of the United States the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies, may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history (Detached Memoranda, circa 1820).

Every new and successful example, therefore, of a perfect separation between the ecclesiastical and civil matters, is of importance; and I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in showing that religion and Government will both exist in greater purity the less they are mixed together (Letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822).

Congress should not establish a religion and enforce the legal observation of it by law, nor compel men to worship God in any manner contary to their conscience, or that one sect might obtain a pre-eminence, or two combined together, and establish a religion to which they would compel others to conform (Annals of Congress, Sat Aug 15th, 1789 pages 730 - 731).

p.s. James Madison and Thomas Jefferson were heavily involved in creating the constitution.

Again you miss the differentiation between what a Church was at the time and Religion. You can not plug in Separation of Religion and State and have it make any sense with the mountain of evidence showing references to God in government.

 

[UltimateReality]

The white invaders of Indian lands introduced Christianity to those lands.
They had to murder a lot of the Indians to do so but I'm sure that, along with the rapes, murdering Indian children and so on, were entirely justified.

That was because their god was better.

I can't believe they did that when the Natives were showering them with so much love and support.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You tried subtly ad homming other folks and I batoned you down for it.

Tuff. You will get that every time you pull that underhanded crap.

Ulitmate seems very unbalanced and very interested in lesbianism, as if that is important at all.

Very creey, and UR is obiviously someone who offers little of worth to the discussion.

Please. Now you are resorting to Ad Hominem attacks to discredit the information which you have no rebuttal for. Nice try.

 

[UltimateReality]

Besides, you are forgetting about Thanksgiving, when peaceful native Americans and Christian pilgrims lived together in peace and broke bread together. You are forgetting the Baptism of Pocahontas. But that's okay, so did Disney in their libtard revisionist cartoon version.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Your disgrace your profession when you try subtly ad homing ofthers than whine when you get beat down for it. Stop it, now.

UR was a police officer. Heavens help the citizens.

Yep, decorated too, without a single blemish on my perfect record. Any more Ad Hominem attacks you would like to bring while you are at it.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Deflection.

However, within our code, citizens can agree to arbitration based on certain standards, whether bishop's courts or shar'ia contract, as long as that does conflict with statutory or constitutional restraint of such.

Show us where in the Constitution that the law was based on the Bible.

Our law is based on Greco-Roman law and Jewish-Christian culture, not on religious texts.

This is what I am saying. Sharia is not part of that tradition.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Even though Jews and Christians and Muslims are all children of Abraham, the Bible is not our law.

The Law of Twelves Tables and Justinian, separated by a thousand years, are proof that America has a Bible based legal system?

Oh, my goodness, Uncensored.

While you are at it being so dang smart, please tell me what date the Ten Commandments were originated? Christianity flows from a Judeo-Christian Tradition. Half our book is the same. Islam is also a spin off, founded by the bastard child of Abraham.

 

[UltimateReality]

UR has failed to provide substantive evidence for his arguments.

Bodecea and Holli have had no trouble in showing his failure.

Move along, UR.

Pffff, so you are betting on a proven internet fraud. Yeah, we'll see you around.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I see your basic error of misunderstanding, UR.

You are trying to say that religious and secular opinion and ethics inform our government and its laws.

Yes, that is true. Christians, deists, agnostics, Native American spiritualists, so forth and so on all have influenced our law making.

James Madison on separation of church/state:

The civil Government, though bereft of everything like an associated hierarchy, possesses the requisite stability, and performs its functions with complete success, whilst the number, the industry, and the morality of the priesthood, and the devotion of the people, have been manifestly increased by the total separation of the church from the State (Letter to Robert Walsh, Mar. 2, 1819).

Strongly guarded as is the separation between religion and & Gov't in the Constitution of the United States the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies, may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history (Detached Memoranda, circa 1820).

Every new and successful example, therefore, of a perfect separation between the ecclesiastical and civil matters, is of importance; and I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in showing that religion and Government will both exist in greater purity the less they are mixed together (Letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822).

Congress should not establish a religion and enforce the legal observation of it by law, nor compel men to worship God in any manner contary to their conscience, or that one sect might obtain a pre-eminence, or two combined together, and establish a religion to which they would compel others to conform (Annals of Congress, Sat Aug 15th, 1789 pages 730 - 731).

p.s. James Madison and Thomas Jefferson were heavily involved in creating the constitution.

Again you miss the differentiation between what a Church was at the time and Religion. You can not plug in Separation of Religion and State and have it make any sense with the mountain of evidence showing references to God in government.

 

[JakeStarkey]

UR, quite being silly. You can easily substitute a picture of a white frontiersman smashing an Indian baby's skull against a tree trunk.

Grow up.

The white invaders of Indian lands introduced Christianity to those lands.
They had to murder a lot of the Indians to do so but I'm sure that, along with the rapes, murdering Indian children and so on, were entirely justified.

That was because their god was better.

I can't believe they did that when the Natives were showering them with so much love and support.

 

[JakeStarkey]

UR is trying to create fraudulent myths here about Christianity, the beginning of our nation, and what Christians in America are today. Holli et al have easily refuted his nonsense.

 

[UltimateReality]

Let's look at the little post that started this whole legal discussion. Now can anyone count how many strawmen were erected in response? Last post said I claimed our legal system is based on the Bible. This is a fact not disputed by any attorney or historian. However, no where is this thread was the claim made it was exclusively on the Bible, which is the main strawmen that started crawling out of the ground like zombies. So many posters bring so much of a constrained worldview to this thread, they think they know what is being said before it is being said.

Seriously? Our legal standard was based in Christianity. Why would I expect you to know this since you and others here are bent on rewriting history. However, if you would like to educate yourself, you can study these links. If not, remain in your ignorance. Please just don't pretend you know what you are talking about when trying to put down others. The Blackstone was used as the basic law book up until the mid to late 1800's, when it was replaced by Darwin followers at Harvard, who viewed the law as not absolute, but evolving. The basic theme of he Blackstone is "does the law we seek conform to the Bible?".

William Blackstone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://constitution.org/18th/ale1762/ale1762_001-050.pdf

 

[UltimateReality]

Even though Jews and Christians and Muslims are all children of Abraham, the Bible is not our law.

So do not kill and do not bear false witness are not part of our tradition?