Yes, I'm a Conservative, But SOME Rent Control IS Necesary

[Ray From Cleveland]

^^^^^Have you seen their financial statements, and operating expenses for the past several years? Have you seen their Proforma for future revenue, and expenses? Do you realize that there may have been deferred maintenance, and now a great need for Capital, and Operational spending to keep the complex an attractive place to rent?

The MARKET sets the rental rate. If the rent is too high for the market to bear, the new owners will not be able to lease the apartments, and will HAVE to lower rents in order to hit their target Occupancy Rate, which is 95%. 100% occupancy means your rents are too low.

The MARKET in this area doesn't require rents as high as the new owner is charging. Other complexes charge the previous rate, and they're not going up by this extreme amount.

What they may be doing is pressuring people out so they can make condos out of those apartments.

 

[protectionist]

You can use any analogy you like, but I think after you move and allow the anger to escape, you'll see what's wrong with your rent control suggestion. It just isn't American.

I am amazed that you would call an objection to a 60% rent increase, that's forcing hundreds of people to abandon their homes, and friends and neighbors, unAmerican. I've always thought of you as an outstanding poster in this forum. I'm reevaluating that now.

 

[protectionist]

It is the same as any other investment. You pay money to buy something hoping for a good return on the money you paid.

Again, you are seeing ONLY the landlord investment side of this issue. You are seeing none of the personal investments of the residents + THEIR monetary investments.

Think about that.

 

[Pilot1]

What they may be doing is pressuring people out so they can make condos out of those apartments.

I don't know the market, and I don't know what comparable properties rent for, or what the trends are there. If they wanted to condo the place, they could just not renew leases when they expired. If the rents were below market prior, they may get a lot of renewals if people realize they are going to spend that somewhere else. If their rents are way above market, they won't lease. The markets self regulate, as you know.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You can use any analogy you like, but I think after you move and allow the anger to escape, you'll see what's wrong with your rent control suggestion. It just isn't American.

I am amazed that you would call an objection to a 60% rent increase, that's forcing hundreds of people to abandon their homes, and friends and neighbors, unAmerican. I've always thought of you as an outstanding poster in this forum. I'm reevaluating that now.

Sorry to hear that, but I think what's unAmerican about it is government dictating who can charge what for rent. That's not what government is for. Government is to govern. What goes on between two parties under legal contract is not a position government should be taking.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

What they may be doing is pressuring people out so they can make condos out of those apartments.

I don't know the market, and I don't know what comparable properties rent for, or what the trends are there. If they wanted to condo the place, they could just not renew leases when they expired. If the rents were below market prior, they may get a lot of renewals if people realize they are going to spend that somewhere else. If their rents are way above market, they won't lease. The markets self regulate, as you know.

That is true, but I've seen many apartment buildings around here converted to condos. I don't know how or why the profit is better than apartments. I would think just the opposite. But for whatever reason, they are doing it.

So if the landlord says he's not renewing the contract instead of increasing rents sky high, what's the difference? Either way, you cannot live there anyhow.

 

[protectionist]

I admit the new owner sounds like a total douche, but freedom is where people are allowed to act like douches so long as they don't violate anyone's rights, and you don't have a right to rent an apartment at a given rate indefinitely. In the end, this guy may find he has an empty building on his hands, and he will have a hard time filling it when his reputation is known.

That doesn't do squat for hundreds of people whose lives have been turned upside down. Think about how it would be if you suddenly found out you had to move out of where you are living now, in a few months, and you didn't have enough money to do it. If you could have stayed, everything would have been allright.

 

[Toro]

I live in an apartment complex, that recently was bought by a new landlord. That landlord has been increasing expired lease rents by as much as 60%. Imagine that your rent is $600/month and suddenly it's damn near $1,000/month.

Whoa! For low income seniors on Social Security and small pensions, this aint gonna fly. Actually, younger people still in the workforce with higher incomes, aren't taking to well to it either. Practically everybody in this complex is moving out. Some people are moving in and paying the higher rents, but not as many as are moving out. I've never seen so many moving vans in my life.

Next May, I will be moving out too, and still haven't figured out where to move to. I have limitations because of a low credit score and income, but I'll find someplace, even if it's not as good as where I am now.

All this is because Florida has no limit of what landlords can raise rents to. The only thing limiting them is new residents' capability to pay, and what they are able to rent apartments for.

But there is another side to this, This isn't oil or minerals mined from the ground. It's not furniture being made and sold. This is about PEOPLE. And it's about people who have been living in this complex for years, and these apartments are their HOMES. One woman who just moved out, had been living here for 25 years. Longtime neighbor-friendships are being obliterated.

If landlords NEED to raise rents, (say 10% or less) for some reason, that's understandable, but to raise them by HUNDREDS of dollars, just for GREED, is not what we ought to be OK with in this country. When hundreds of people are forced out of their homes, this is unacceptable. As is the case with most conservatives, I also favor deregulation of business, but this is one case that is screaming for MORE regulation, to a reasonable degree.

Fascists support rent control, and they're conservatives.

So, put two and two together ...

 

[bripat9643]

I don't think it's a question of survival for the new owner. Let's say he bought the place for 10 million dollars. 10 million dollars could be better invested somewhere else if he was not able to carry forth his plans with the place. But he calculated that his investment was going to pay a reasonable return if he used whatever plans he has.

In that short paragragh, you said the word "he" or "his" 7 times. Not once did you mention the hundreds of people losing their HOMES.

If you live in a unit for 5 years, 10 years, 25 years, it comes to be YOUR HOME, no matter who owns the title.

No matter what you think about it, it's still his property. Short of violating your contract, he can do what he likes with it. Otherwise you are expropriating his property.

 

[bripat9643]

I admit the new owner sounds like a total douche, but freedom is where people are allowed to act like douches so long as they don't violate anyone's rights, and you don't have a right to rent an apartment at a given rate indefinitely. In the end, this guy may find he has an empty building on his hands, and he will have a hard time filling it when his reputation is known.

That doesn't do squat for hundreds of people whose lives have been turned upside down. Think about how it would be if you suddenly found out you had to move out of where you are living now, in a few months, and you didn't have enough money to do it. If you could have stayed, everything would have been allright.

I've been in that situation, and it sure sucked, but that didn't mean I had the right to continue living in a property when the owner didn't want me there.

 

[bripat9643]

^^^^^Have you seen their financial statements, and operating expenses for the past several years? Have you seen their Proforma for future revenue, and expenses? Do you realize that there may have been deferred maintenance, and now a great need for Capital, and Operational spending to keep the complex an attractive place to rent?

The MARKET sets the rental rate. If the rent is too high for the market to bear, the new owners will not be able to lease the apartments, and will HAVE to lower rents in order to hit their target Occupancy Rate, which is 95%. 100% occupancy means your rents are too low.

The MARKET in this area doesn't require rents as high as the new owner is charging. Other complexes charge the previous rate, and they're not going up by this extreme amount.

What they may be doing is pressuring people out so they can make condos out of those apartments.

Not if they are still leasing the units.

 

[protectionist]

Tell your physics professor to drink some soda that only as a little bit of cyanide in it.

LOL. Funny that you mention that. He gave an example.

Two 8 ounce glasses of water. One with a drop of arsenic. Other with a whole eyedropper of arsenic. Both have same ingredients. Quantities are different, as are the qualities. One is a simple glass of water. Other is a deadly poison.

 

[protectionist]

How many years had it been since a rent increase for those with that percentage of increase? Are they doing any improvements? Have to replace faulty equipment? How much more value of the property between when the old owner and the new ne purchased? How much more insurance is required vs the original owner? Does the mortgage holder require more insurance than the last did? I could go on and on. You as a renter have no idea all the variables that could have changed from one owner to the next.
You seem to be of the thought that nothing affects it, but you are mistaken.

And why not consider one of the other properties down the road you state are still much cheaper?

No other apt complex nearby, or even miles around, is doing this.

 

[bripat9643]

Tell your physics professor to drink some soda that only as a little bit of cyanide in it.

LOL. Funny that you mention that. He gave an example.

Two 8 ounce glasses of water. One with a drop of arsenic. Other with a whole eyedropper of arsenic. Both have same ingredients. Quantities are different, as are the qualities. One is a simple glass of water. Other is a deadly poison.

Tell it to a teenage girl who is only a little bit pregnant. There are situations that are only a matter of quantity, and others that are either on or off.

 

[Toro]

You are a conservative, but....

lol

But you have railed in favor of the federal gov't taking over major league baseball.
You want people arrested for calling you a "dumbass".
You want people arrested if they don't stand for the anthem.
And you want rent control.

And those are just SOME of the views you have raved about.

Yes. That's fascism.

 

[protectionist]

I understand that whole heartedly. I understand how angry you must be. But rental is no different than automobiles, houses, stores, restaurants. It's an investment and as a renter, you have to expect anything.

It's like when a company buys another company. The new owners always tell employees nothing will change, you won't notice anything but improvements. I've seen this many times and I worked for a company this happened to. Within five years, every one of us who worked there were gone and replaced by all new workers. Less money, less benefits, and the new owners could care less about us. Find someplace else to work.

I still say SOME rent control is needed.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It is the same as any other investment. You pay money to buy something hoping for a good return on the money you paid.

Again, you are seeing ONLY the landlord investment side of this issue. You are seeing none of the personal investments of the residents + THEIR monetary investments.

Think about that.

Like I said, I've been on both sides. I was a tenant for years, and I became a landlord later on. I never evaluate anything from only my point of view. That's why I stated I could understand your anger because I've been in your shoes before. I can't tell you how angry I was.

But on the other hand, when somebody makes an investment like that, do they have a social obligation to the tenants outside of their contract? The answer is no. That's why leases are renewed every year.

Maybe this isn't the exact same thing, but it did come to mind.

I've been dealing with the same bank for 25 years. It was called (and still called) Ohio Savings. They got bought out by a bank called New York Community after the housing crash. One day I got a letter that my Home Equity loan expired, and they had no plans to renew it.

I was furious. I owed 14 grand on that account, and they were demanding payment in full. I called down there, I talked to all kinds of people explaining how long I've been a good and outstanding customer. It didn't matter. When I dug out the original contract, it stated the bank has the option to renew the loan at their discretion. They decided not to.

Okay, so I went to another bank. They sent an appraiser out, and the appraiser said I owed more on the mortgage than the property was worth, so technically I had no equity in the home therefore, I couldn't get a Home Equity loan.

Long story short, I finally got so pissed I called a credit card company and asked if I could transfer the loan to their card. They agreed, and I actually saved money in the long run because I get 0% interest rates on all my credit cards. I've been saving well over $600.00 a year by doing it that way.

 

[Toro]

This is interesting. WHO ARE THE LANDLORDS? Why is it some places have rents so high they are vacant for years. Folks, real estate is not free market. Certain groups bought stuff up decades ago. Very troubling that this concept is not addressed. Buying property is not free market since you have to pay ridiculous taxes on the property, plus the ridiculous amounts to the "realtors."

IMO, the local governments should take over a property if it is not leased or purchased within 12 months. Rather than creepy, ethnic syndicates own the property.

That's what communists do.

And fascists.

 

[bripat9643]

How many years had it been since a rent increase for those with that percentage of increase? Are they doing any improvements? Have to replace faulty equipment? How much more value of the property between when the old owner and the new ne purchased? How much more insurance is required vs the original owner? Does the mortgage holder require more insurance than the last did? I could go on and on. You as a renter have no idea all the variables that could have changed from one owner to the next.
You seem to be of the thought that nothing affects it, but you are mistaken.

And why not consider one of the other properties down the road you state are still much cheaper?

No other apt complex nearby, or even miles around, is doing this.

Your situation is why you need to buy rather than rent. The main reason I own a home is the fact that I hate landlords. Even when I like them as people, the invariably screw me over. They own the property because they want to make money off it, and they will squeeze you any way they can to get it. When you own a property, the list of things that can be done to you gets much shorter.

 

[protectionist]

What they may be doing is pressuring people out so they can make condos out of those apartments.

Nah, I've talked to real estate investor and RE lawyers, Condos is passe" around here. That died out years ago.