"You didn't get there on your own"

[ABikerSailor]

.

"I'm always struck by people who think, 'well it must be 'cause I was just so smart'. There are a lot of smart people out there. 'It must be because I worked harder than anybody else'. Let me tell you something. There are a whole bunch of hard working people out there'."

How do you know what a business person is thinking, Mr President?

How many business owners have you actually heard say "I'm so smart" or "I work harder than anybody"?, Mr President? Precisely? After working with a few hundred of them, I never have, not once. You just made this shit up to appeal to people who, for the most part, have no idea what it's like.

This all a lovely straw man argument, but his mockery above has nothing to do with roads and bridges. Not a thing.

But keep diverting, it seems to be working, that's politics, huh?

.

I can give you an example of one rich person who states both those things regularly and even has a television show..........................Donald the Chump.

are you giving one because there is only one???

Do you need more? I'm pretty sure I can find them. And those are just the public ones.

Wanna talk about the Winklevoss twins?

 

[edthecynic]

Then there's the little matter of corporate tax which is paid AGAIN by the individuals who own the company. It is a double tax in most cases.

And then there is the matter of major corporations who not only pay no corporate taxes, they get money from the government. That's right, they have a NEGATIVE tax rate!!!!!! These are not poor little startups, they are highly profitable Fortune 500 companies.

 

[Barb]

Our Candidates Come In Two Flavors: Dishonest And Insultingly Dishonest

Love Lewis Black

 

[Bfgrn]

LLCs and S Corps, Ed. I'm trying to be patient, but I'm wearing thin with you. We've been here before.

All you do is pontificate, like the "zombie" you linked to. Post some real numbers that show corporations paying "their share and more."

Corporations contribute 7.4% of federal revenues, wage earners 84.6%, and capital gains tycoons 2.5%.

It's not 'pontification', Ed. It's patience. I come here to talk... not to fight with people. Talking is actually fun when one doesn't make a chore of it. And while I enjoy talking with the like-minded, debating opposing views is also entertaining. But less so, when people keep repeating the same lame misunderstanding of the situation time after time.

Obama's not just trying to raise taxes on corporations. When he's talking to most of these small business people, he's talking income tax.

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
Daniel Patrick Moynihan



Obama Unveils Proposal to Cut Corporate Tax Rate

THE PRESIDENT’S FRAMEWORK FOR BUSINESS TAX REFORM

Introduction

America’s system of business taxation is in need of reform. The United States has a relatively narrow corporate tax base compared to other countries—a tax base reduced by loopholes, tax expenditures, and tax planning. This is combined with a statutory corporate tax rate that will soon be the highest among advanced countries. As a result of this combination of a relatively narrow tax base and a high statutory tax rate, the U.S. tax system is uncompetitive and inefficient. The system distorts choices such as where to produce, what to invest in, how to finance a business, and what business form to use. And it does too little to encourage job creation and investment in the United States while allowing firms to benefit from incentives to locate production and shift profits overseas. The system is also too complicated—especially for America’s small businesses.

For these reasons, the President is committed to reform that will support the competitiveness of American businesses—large and small—and increase incentives to invest and hire in the United States by lowering rates, cutting tax expenditures, and reducing complexity, while being fiscally responsible.

This report presents the President’s Framework for business tax reform. In laying out this Framework, the President recognizes that tax reform will take time, require work on a bipartisan basis, and benefit from additional feedback from stakeholders and experts. To start that process, this report outlines what the President believes should be five key elements of business tax reform.


PRESIDENT OBAMA’S FIVE ELEMENTS OF BUSINESS TAX REFORM

I. Eliminate dozens of tax loopholes and subsidies, broaden the base and cut the corporate tax rate to spur growth in America: The Framework would eliminate dozens of different tax expenditures and fundamentally reform the business tax base to reduce distortions that hurt productivity and growth. It would reinvest these savings to lower the corporate tax rate to 28 percent, putting the United States in line with major competitor countries and encouraging greater investment in America.

II. Strengthen American manufacturing and innovation: The Framework would refocus the manufacturing deduction and use the savings to reduce the effective rate on manufacturing to no more than 25 percent, while encouraging greater research and development and the production of clean energy.

III. Strengthen the international tax system, including establishing a new minimum tax on foreign earnings, to encourage domestic investment: Our tax system should not give companies an incentive to locate production overseas or engage in accounting games to shift profits abroad, eroding the U.S. tax base. Introducing a minimum tax on foreign earnings would help address these problems and discourage a global race to the bottom in tax rates.

IV. Simplify and cut taxes for America’s small businesses: Tax reform should make tax filing simpler for small businesses and entrepreneurs so that they can focus on growing their businesses rather than filling out tax returns.

V. Restore fiscal responsibility and not add a dime to the deficit: Business tax reform should be fully paid for and lead to greater fiscal responsibility than our current business tax system by either eliminating or making permanent and fully paying for temporary tax provisions now in the tax code.

 

[Mac1958]

.

"I'm always struck by people who think, 'well it must be 'cause I was just so smart'. There are a lot of smart people out there. 'It must be because I worked harder than anybody else'. Let me tell you something. There are a whole bunch of hard working people out there'."

How do you know what a business person is thinking, Mr President?

How many business owners have you actually heard say "I'm so smart" or "I work harder than anybody"?, Mr President? Precisely? After working with a few hundred of them, I never have, not once. You just made this shit up to appeal to people who, for the most part, have no idea what it's like.

This all a lovely straw man argument, but his mockery above has nothing to do with roads and bridges. Not a thing.

But keep diverting, it seems to be working, that's politics, huh?

.

I can give you an example of one rich person who states both those things regularly and even has a television show..........................Donald the Chump.

Marketing, very effective marketing. But let's even give you that. But if we have to go that far for examples, then I think my point is made. 99.9999% of American business owners don't think that way. Obama created a straw man to rip up, that's intellectually dishonest, and that's what pissed me off.

.

 

[Article 15]

.

Many of us who don't like what Obama said began losing this argument when they tried to respond to the "roads and bridges" straw man. A masterful job of diversion by the Left.

.

You lost the argument because Obama was telling the truth.

"Separate an individual from society, and give him an island or a continent to possess, and he cannot acquire personal property. He cannot be rich. So inseparably are the means connected with the end, in all cases, that where the former do not exist the latter cannot be obtained. All accumulation, therefore, of personal property, beyond what a man's own hands produce, is derived to him by living in society; and he owes on every principle of justice, of gratitude, and of civilization, a part of that accumulation back again to society from whence the whole came."

Thomas Paine

 

[Mac1958]

.

Many of us who don't like what Obama said began losing this argument when they tried to respond to the "roads and bridges" straw man. A masterful job of diversion by the Left.

.

You lost the argument because Obama was telling the truth.

"Separate an individual from society, and give him an island or a continent to possess, and he cannot acquire personal property. He cannot be rich. So inseparably are the means connected with the end, in all cases, that where the former do not exist the latter cannot be obtained. All accumulation, therefore, of personal property, beyond what a man's own hands produce, is derived to him by living in society; and he owes on every principle of justice, of gratitude, and of civilization, a part of that accumulation back again to society from whence the whole came."

Thomas Paine

"I'm always struck by people who think, 'well it must be 'cause I was just so smart'. There are a lot of smart people out there. 'It must be because I worked harder than anybody else'. Let me tell you something. There are a whole bunch of hard working people out there'."

Barack Obama

.

 

[Article 15]

.

Many of us who don't like what Obama said began losing this argument when they tried to respond to the "roads and bridges" straw man. A masterful job of diversion by the Left.

.

You lost the argument because Obama was telling the truth.

"Separate an individual from society, and give him an island or a continent to possess, and he cannot acquire personal property. He cannot be rich. So inseparably are the means connected with the end, in all cases, that where the former do not exist the latter cannot be obtained. All accumulation, therefore, of personal property, beyond what a man's own hands produce, is derived to him by living in society; and he owes on every principle of justice, of gratitude, and of civilization, a part of that accumulation back again to society from whence the whole came."

Thomas Paine

"I'm always struck by people who think, 'well it must be 'cause I was just so smart'. There are a lot of smart people out there. 'It must be because I worked harder than anybody else'. Let me tell you something. There are a whole bunch of hard working people out there'."

Barack Obama

.

And?

 

[Mac1958]

You lost the argument because Obama was telling the truth.

"Separate an individual from society, and give him an island or a continent to possess, and he cannot acquire personal property. He cannot be rich. So inseparably are the means connected with the end, in all cases, that where the former do not exist the latter cannot be obtained. All accumulation, therefore, of personal property, beyond what a man's own hands produce, is derived to him by living in society; and he owes on every principle of justice, of gratitude, and of civilization, a part of that accumulation back again to society from whence the whole came."

Thomas Paine

"I'm always struck by people who think, 'well it must be 'cause I was just so smart'. There are a lot of smart people out there. 'It must be because I worked harder than anybody else'. Let me tell you something. There are a whole bunch of hard working people out there'."

Barack Obama

.

And?

I made my point at 4:32, a few posts up. This isn't about roads or bridges, it's not about property, it's not about civilization. It's about politics.

.

 

[Article 15]

"I'm always struck by people who think, 'well it must be 'cause I was just so smart'. There are a lot of smart people out there. 'It must be because I worked harder than anybody else'. Let me tell you something. There are a whole bunch of hard working people out there'."

Barack Obama

.

And?

I made my point at 4:32, a few posts up. This isn't about roads or bridges, it's not about property, it's not about civilization. It's about politics.

.

It's always about politics on one level or another. It doesn't make what Obama is said any less true.

If you want to prove him wrong find yourself an Island that has never seen humans, move there with nothing, start your business and let us know how that works out for you.

 

[Mac1958]

And?

I made my point at 4:32, a few posts up. This isn't about roads or bridges, it's not about property, it's not about civilization. It's about politics.

.

It's always about politics on one level or another. It doesn't make what Obama is said any less true.

If you want to prove him wrong find yourself an Island that has never seen humans, move there with nothing, start your business and let us know how that works out for you.

So, just for the record then, you agree with Obama that business owners think their success is because they are "so smart" and because they "worked harder than anyone else."

Those are his words, verbatim, and you agree with them. Correct?

.

 

[Article 15]

I made my point at 4:32, a few posts up. This isn't about roads or bridges, it's not about property, it's not about civilization. It's about politics.

.

It's always about politics on one level or another. It doesn't make what Obama is said any less true.

If you want to prove him wrong find yourself an Island that has never seen humans, move there with nothing, start your business and let us know how that works out for you.

So, just for the record then, you agree with Obama that business owners think their success is because they are "so smart" and because they "worked harder than anyone else."

Those are his words, verbatim, and you agree with them. Correct?

.

Sure, I think that some of them do. I didn't read anything in that quote where he said they all do.

 

[Mac1958]

It's always about politics on one level or another. It doesn't make what Obama is said any less true.

If you want to prove him wrong find yourself an Island that has never seen humans, move there with nothing, start your business and let us know how that works out for you.

So, just for the record then, you agree with Obama that business owners think their success is because they are "so smart" and because they "worked harder than anyone else."

Those are his words, verbatim, and you agree with them. Correct?

.

Sure, I think that some of them do. I didn't read anything in that quote where he said they all do.

His words, again: "I'm always struck by people who think..."

Always, must happen often.

People who think, very impressive mind-reading there.

The guy knows absolutely nothing about this, and he was playing to a crowd who also does not. That's politics-playing at its worst, and I don't like being used as a pawn in the game, by either side, ever, period.

I don't expect you to agree on this. But that was my point.

.

 

[Article 15]

So, just for the record then, you agree with Obama that business owners think their success is because they are "so smart" and because they "worked harder than anyone else."

Those are his words, verbatim, and you agree with them. Correct?

.

Sure, I think that some of them do. I didn't read anything in that quote where he said they all do.

His words, again: "I'm always struck by people who think..."

Always, must happen often.

People who think, very impressive mind-reading there.

The guy knows absolutely nothing about this, and he was playing to a crowd who also does not. That's politics-playing at its worst, and I don't like being used as a pawn in the game, by either side, ever, period.

I don't expect you to agree on this. But that was my point.

.

Always....could happen every day, could happen once a year.

The guy is spot on.

Deal.

 

[rightwinger]

"I'm always struck by people who think, 'well it must be 'cause I was just so smart'. There are a lot of smart people out there. 'It must be because I worked harder than anybody else'. Let me tell you something. There are a whole bunch of hard working people out there'."

Barack Obama

.

And?

I made my point at 4:32, a few posts up. This isn't about roads or bridges, it's not about property, it's not about civilization. It's about politics.

.

This dust up is all about roads and bridges

Business owners think they built them without any help

 

[Mac1958]

.

And they pretend they don't dislike business owners.

Perfect.

.

 

[Article 15]

.

And they pretend they don't dislike business owners.

Perfect.

.

Looks like the Captain Non-partisan has been reduced to making silly partisan statements.

 

[Mac1958]

.

Just reading your posts, this doesn't take much effort on my part.

And being independent does not mean that I don't have strong opinions. They're just not based on politics, that's all. I get to be honest at all times, spin and diversion are too much work for me.

.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Glad Dems have finally stepped out of their NeoMarxists closet. Please run against US Small business

Embrace your Inner Mao

 

[Article 15]

.

Just reading your posts, this doesn't take much effort on my part.

And being independent does not mean that I don't have strong opinions. They're just not based on politics, that's all. I get to be honest at all times, spin and diversion are too much work for me.

.

"And they pretend they don't dislike business owners."

That's right out of the right wing nut brigade field manual.