"You didn't get there on your own"

[Bfgrn]

That's what I've been doing ed, and you continue your ignorant drone.

Why be so afraid to give us your best example of defeating our founders central principle??? What does your fear tell us about your IQ and character.

Our founder's seminal achievement on this planet can be expressed in one word. It is not corporation, it is not privatization, and it is not marketism...

It is government.

"The equal rights of man, and the happiness of every individual, are now acknowledged to be the only legitimate objects of government. Modern times have the signal advantage, too, of having discovered the only device by which these rights can be secured, to wit: government by the people, acting not in person, but by representatives chosen by themselves, that is to say, by every man of ripe years and sane mind, who contributes either by his purse or person to the support of his country." --Thomas Jefferson to A. Coray, 1823. ME 15:482

A Republic.

A limited or restricted federal government.

That is what they gave us.

The only issue is that you bastards don't seem to understand what restricted means.

You'd have Uncle Sam changing your depends if you could.[/QUOTE]

I completely understand what restricted means. And I understand everything our founders were fearful of. It wasn't just too much government they were fearful of, it was malefactors of private wealth they were equally fearful of. That is something conservatives are completely oblivious to.

Debate and argument over the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and the Federalist papers has been going on for over 200 years by and between citizens, scholars, theologians and polemics. It is nothing new, and our founder's true intent on many issues has not become any closer to being resolved.

So when we have an EXAMPLE of how those same men APPLIED all those principles in ACTUAL governance, it serves as the BEST example of how they put all those principles, beliefs and ideas to use. Their actions carry the most weight.

Our founding fathers did not subscribe to Adam Smith's 'invisible hand'. They believed in very heavy regulations and restrictions on corporations. They were men who held ethics as the most important attribute. They viewed being paid by the American people for their services as a privilege not a right. And they had no problem closing down any corporation that swindled the people, and holding owners and stockholder personally liable for any harm to the people they caused.

Early laws regulating corporations in America

*Corporations were required to have a clear purpose, to be fulfilled but not exceeded.

*Corporations’ licenses to do business were revocable by the state legislature if they exceeded or did not fulfill their chartered purpose(s).

*The state legislature could revoke a corporation’s charter if it misbehaved.

*The act of incorporation did not relieve corporate management or stockholders/owners of responsibility or liability for corporate acts.

*As a matter of course, corporation officers, directors, or agents couldn’t break the law and avoid punishment by claiming they were “just doing their job” when committing crimes but instead could be held criminally liable for violating the law.

*Directors of the corporation were required to come from among stockholders.

*Corporations had to have their headquarters and meetings in the state where their principal place of business was located.

*Corporation charters were granted for a specific period of time, such as twenty or thirty years (instead of being granted “in perpetuity,” as is now the practice).

*Corporations were prohibited from owning stock in other corporations, to prevent them from extending their power inappropriately.

*Corporations’ real estate holdings were limited to what was necessary to carry out their specific purpose(s).

*Corporations were prohibited from making any political contributions, direct or indirect.

*Corporations were prohibited from making charitable or civic donations outside of their specific purposes.

*State legislatures could set the rates that some monopoly corporations could charge for their products or services.

*All corporation records and documents were open to the legislature or the state attorney general.

The Early Role of Corporations in America

The Legacy of the Founding Parents
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What caused the Progressive movement

We tried unregulated corporations in America. The closest experiment to total deregulation in this country occurred between the end of the Civil War and the beginning of the 19th century...it was called the Gilded Age; an era where America was as far from our founder's intent of a democratic society and closest to an aristocracy that our founder's were willing to lay down their lives to defeat.

It was BIPARTISAN opposition to that same Gilded Age that was the genesis of the Progressive movement in this country. When you study history, almost always just cause is behind it.

The only enemies of the Constitution are those who try to wield it as a weapon against the living, by using the words of the dead.
Me

 

[Listening]

A limited government.

A restricted government.

No General Welfare.

 

[Bfgrn]

A limited government.

A restricted government.

No General Welfare.

Epic fail. Dogma alert...dogma alert....

"What is true of every member of the society, individually, is true of them all collectively; since the rights of the whole can be no more than the sum of the rights of the individuals." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1789. ME 7:455, Papers 15:393

"To unequal privileges among members of the same society the spirit of our nation is, with one accord, adverse." --Thomas Jefferson to Hugh White, 1801. ME 10:258

"The most sacred of the duties of a government is to do equal and impartial justice to all its citizens." --Thomas Jefferson: Note in Destutt de Tracy, "Political Economy," 1816. ME 14:465

"The legitimate object of Government is to do for a community of people whatever they need to have done but cannot do at all, or cannot so well do, for themselves in their separate and individual capacities. But in all that people can individually do as well for themselves, Government ought not to interfere."
President Abraham Lincoln

"In all those things which deal with people, be liberal, be human. In all those things which deal with people's money, or their economy, or their form of government, be conservative."
President Dwight D. Eisenhower

"Labor is the United States. The men and women, who with their minds, their hearts and hands, create the wealth that is shared in this country—they are America."
President Dwight D. Eisenhower

"Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history."
President Dwight D. Eisenhower

"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together."
President Dwight D. Eisenhower

 

[Listening]

A limited government.

A restricted government.

No General Welfare.

The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected. The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State.

The operations of the federal government will be most extensive and important in times of war and danger; those of the State governments, in times of peace and security. As the former periods will probably bear a small proportion to the latter, the State governments will here enjoy another advantage over the federal government. The more adequate, indeed, the federal powers may be rendered to the national defense, the less frequent will be those scenes of danger which might favor their ascendancy over the governments of the particular States.

From Federalist 45

"Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history."
President Dwight D. Eisenhower

Seems Dwight was wrong....

The GOP is not only still around....it kicked ass in 2010.

 

[Bfgrn]

A limited government.

A restricted government.

No General Welfare.

The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected. The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State.

The operations of the federal government will be most extensive and important in times of war and danger; those of the State governments, in times of peace and security. As the former periods will probably bear a small proportion to the latter, the State governments will here enjoy another advantage over the federal government. The more adequate, indeed, the federal powers may be rendered to the national defense, the less frequent will be those scenes of danger which might favor their ascendancy over the governments of the particular States.

From Federalist 45

"Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history."
President Dwight D. Eisenhower

Seems Dwight was wrong....

The GOP is not only still around....it kicked ass in 2010.

Try it asshole, it will be the end of the Republican party. I guarantee it.

Let me ask you a question. What would happen to elderly Americans if Medicare and Social Security were ended, or if benefits were cut drastically? Do those Americans have the ability to generate additional income?

Your story about friends wanting to open a travel agency and that Obama must go because of their problems...WHAT did the federal government have to do with it? It was STATE, LOCAL and COUNTY governments that caused their problems.

 

[Listening]

"Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history."
President Dwight D. Eisenhower

Seems Dwight was wrong....

The GOP is not only still around....it kicked ass in 2010.

Try it asshole, it will be the end of the Republican party. I guarantee it.

Sorry dickweed....

We are here and 2012 is looking pretty good.

Let me ask you a question. What would happen to elderly Americans if Medicare and Social Security were ended, or if benefits were cut drastically? Do those Americans have the ability to generate additional income?

Hey piss-for-brains,

Why can't you climb out of your small box. There are many ways to end this travesty that would have no impact on today's seniors.

You are 100% TOOL.

Your story about friends wanting to open a travel agency and that Obama must go because of their problems...WHAT did the federal government have to do with it? It was STATE, LOCAL and COUNTY governments that caused their problems.

That is right.

Not only didn't they not build that...they got in the way.

Obama fail.

What was your argument ? That the federal government is any different. Sorry, skidmark, there are all kinds of examples of that...and even reaching into a small travel agency in small town, U.S.A., the federal government did cause issues.

 

[flacaltenn]

the Tea Party movement’s dirty little secret is that it owes its existence to the grandaddy of all Antichrists: the godless empire of the USSR.

1) its not true

2) if it was so what??? Modern Germany owes its existence to Nazi Germany


see why we say, slow???

BFgrn has gone off the deep end.. He's now competing with Glenn Beck for putting the most arrows on a chalkboard. Calling the Koch Grandpa a Commie hater, giving him credit for starting the John Birchers AND THEN (without any shame, embarrassment or dislocated elbows) he ties the Tea Party, Reason Magazine and the addition that the Koch Bros built onto Lincoln Center to STALIN thru the same guy...

Excuse me a minute...



This reminds of folks who tried to tie Averil Harriman (former Gov of NY, prominent Democrat ) to the Nazis because his bank was assigned WWI German Assets to manage. ACTUALLY it was DEMS tying GW Bush to the Nazis thru his FATHER who merely WORKED for Averill Harriman at the bank..

C'mon --- You did THAT ONE TOO --- didn''t you? Admit it....

OMG --- You can't think beyond partisian and conspiracy theories. Not only are you locked in the past with no way out -- you have no common sense or sense of proportion in making ABSURB conspiratorial Tin Foil Hat allegations.

Don't bother replying to this because I'm not gonna waste any time debating this nonsense.
Especially for the sake of the Tea Party. They will kick your ass well themselves.

The Koch Bros have saved and enriched MORE lives than you have ever talked to.

And just because you hate their hate their politics, you'd overlook that wouldn't you slimeball?

 

[Bfgrn]

the Tea Party movement’s dirty little secret is that it owes its existence to the grandaddy of all Antichrists: the godless empire of the USSR.

1) its not true

2) if it was so what??? Modern Germany owes its existence to Nazi Germany


see why we say, slow???

BFgrn has gone off the deep end.. He's now competing with Glenn Beck for putting the most arrows on a chalkboard. Calling the Koch Grandpa a Commie hater, giving him credit for starting the John Birchers AND THEN (without any shame, embarrassment or dislocated elbows) he ties the Tea Party, Reason Magazine and the addition that the Koch Bros built onto Lincoln Center to STALIN thru the same guy...

Excuse me a minute...



This reminds of folks who tried to tie Averil Harriman (former Gov of NY, prominent Democrat ) to the Nazis because his bank was assigned WWI German Assets to manage. ACTUALLY it was DEMS tying GW Bush to the Nazis thru his FATHER who merely WORKED for Averill Harriman at the bank..

C'mon --- You did THAT ONE TOO --- didn''t you? Admit it....

OMG --- You can't think beyond partisian and conspiracy theories. Not only are you locked in the past with no way out -- you have no common sense or sense of proportion in making ABSURB conspiratorial Tin Foil Hat allegations.

Don't bother replying to this because I'm not gonna waste any time debating this nonsense.
Especially for the sake of the Tea Party. They will kick your ass well themselves.

The Koch Bros have saved and enriched MORE lives than you have ever talked to.

And just because you hate their hate their politics, you'd overlook that wouldn't you slimeball?

It is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners.
Albert Camus

The fact remains that Grandpa Koch took Stalin's money and made piles of cash laying the foundation of Soviet oil infrastructure in the 1920s and early 1930s. He designed and built refineries, hosted Soviet engineers for training in Wichita, Kansas, and made an invaluable contribution to the rapid industrialization of the Soviet Union during Joseph Stalin’s first Five-Year Plan. This is a touchy issue for the Koch family: without the Commie Reds providing his future seed capital, Koch Industries would not exist today.

Your heroes are the slimeballs. They are one of the worst polluters on the planet. But I guess human life means little to the modern day Pharisee.

Koch Industries’ history of bypassing, breaking rules includes sales to Iran

 

[Listening]

1) its not true

2) if it was so what??? Modern Germany owes its existence to Nazi Germany


see why we say, slow???

BFgrn has gone off the deep end.. He's now competing with Glenn Beck for putting the most arrows on a chalkboard. Calling the Koch Grandpa a Commie hater, giving him credit for starting the John Birchers AND THEN (without any shame, embarrassment or dislocated elbows) he ties the Tea Party, Reason Magazine and the addition that the Koch Bros built onto Lincoln Center to STALIN thru the same guy...

Excuse me a minute...



This reminds of folks who tried to tie Averil Harriman (former Gov of NY, prominent Democrat ) to the Nazis because his bank was assigned WWI German Assets to manage. ACTUALLY it was DEMS tying GW Bush to the Nazis thru his FATHER who merely WORKED for Averill Harriman at the bank..

C'mon --- You did THAT ONE TOO --- didn''t you? Admit it....

OMG --- You can't think beyond partisian and conspiracy theories. Not only are you locked in the past with no way out -- you have no common sense or sense of proportion in making ABSURB conspiratorial Tin Foil Hat allegations.

Don't bother replying to this because I'm not gonna waste any time debating this nonsense.
Especially for the sake of the Tea Party. They will kick your ass well themselves.

The Koch Bros have saved and enriched MORE lives than you have ever talked to.

And just because you hate their hate their politics, you'd overlook that wouldn't you slimeball?

It is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners.
Albert Camus

The fact remains that Grandpa Koch took Stalin's money and made piles of cash laying the foundation of Soviet oil infrastructure in the 1920s and early 1930s. He designed and built refineries, hosted Soviet engineers for training in Wichita, Kansas, and made an invaluable contribution to the rapid industrialization of the Soviet Union during Joseph Stalin’s first Five-Year Plan. This is a touchy issue for the Koch family: without the Commie Reds providing his future seed capital, Koch Industries would not exist today.

Your heroes are the slimeballs. They are one of the worst polluters on the planet. But I guess human life means little to the modern day Pharisee.

Koch Industries’ history of bypassing, breaking rules includes sales to Iran

Koch didn't do that....somebody else did.

 

[bripat9643]

It is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners.
Albert Camus

The fact remains that Grandpa Koch took Stalin's money and made piles of cash laying the foundation of Soviet oil infrastructure in the 1920s and early 1930s. He designed and built refineries, hosted Soviet engineers for training in Wichita, Kansas, and made an invaluable contribution to the rapid industrialization of the Soviet Union during Joseph Stalin’s first Five-Year Plan. This is a touchy issue for the Koch family: without the Commie Reds providing his future seed capital, Koch Industries would not exist today.

Your heroes are the slimeballs. They are one of the worst polluters on the planet. But I guess human life means little to the modern day Pharisee.

The Koch brothers are not their grandfather. Furthermore, unlike Joe kennedy, Grandpa Koch made his money legally. The Soviet Union was not our enemy in the 1920s and 1930s, and it was only one of the customers of Koch's firm. Many other U.S. firms sold their products and services to the Soviet Union. All the people you idolize who lived during the that period supported the Soviet Union. They did everything they could to help the Soviet Union. You look quite idiotic attacking the Kochs for doing business with a company that all your liberal heroes from the 1930s idolized.

Oil is only a small party of Koch industries, but nevertheless it's a product that's necessary for our civilization to function. Human life depends on the product Koch industries produces. Only environmental nutburgers like you think refining it makes you a "slimeball."

 

[Foxfyre]

I'm pretty sure that if one or two of our friends here didn't have a couple of hate sites favorited and didn't know how to cut and paste, they wouldn't be able to participate at all.

Unfortunately such people don't read what they cut and paste well enough to address the topic or make a coherant response to the challenges other offer them. Sigh.

Oh well. Once again dragging the train back onto the track. We don't want to lose focus of the very real advantage the President has handed us, folks. In that now infamous speech, he uncharacteristically lowered his shields and let us see what he really is and what his goals really are.

He gave us some of the best ammunition yet to use in electing far less authoritarian and far less dangerous leaders this coming November.

Let's don't lose sight of that prize.

 

[saveliberty]

I had the opportunity to visit a liberal board yesterday. I was dumbfounded at the lack of understanding concerning economics and how a business operates. In particular, they seemed absolutely convinced a business could just absorb costs and not pass them to consumers. Also firmly believed most businesses were "gouging" consumers.

Drawing from that experience, Obama is really speaking directly to these liberals in the socialist language they not only understand but believe completely.

 

[Foxfyre]

I had the opportunity to visit a liberal board yesterday. I was dumbfounded at the lack of understanding concerning economics and how a business operates. In particular, they seemed absolutely convinced a business could just absorb costs and not pass them to consumers. Also firmly believed most businesses were "gouging" consumers.

Drawing from that experience, Obama is really speaking directly to these liberals in the socialist language they not only understand but believe completely.

No doubt. It's like some folks are short circuited somewhere in their thinking and are incapable of following a concept all the way from beginning to end. They honestly are incapable of seeing the whole big picture of what goes into making a business successful. I think the President is one of those 'short circuited' people. It's that or else we have to see a much more ominous and sinister motive behind his game plan.

It is the disingenousness of it that become so frustrating. Like in the recent 2-minute ad he put out begging for contributions to his campaign. You can see it here at this site, but note the comments below the link to the video that illustrate the disconnect between the reality and the rhetoric.

Obama begs supporters for money in new campaign video

 

[Newby]

I had the opportunity to visit a liberal board yesterday. I was dumbfounded at the lack of understanding concerning economics and how a business operates. In particular, they seemed absolutely convinced a business could just absorb costs and not pass them to consumers. Also firmly believed most businesses were "gouging" consumers.

Drawing from that experience, Obama is really speaking directly to these liberals in the socialist language they not only understand but believe completely.

No doubt. It's like some folks are short circuited somewhere in their thinking and are incapable of following a concept all the way from beginning to end. They honestly are incapable of seeing the whole big picture of what goes into making a business successful. I think the President is one of those 'short circuited' people. It's that or else we have to see a much more ominous and sinister motive behind his game plan.

It is the disingenousness of it that become so frustrating. Like in the recent 2-minute ad he put out begging for contributions to his campaign. You can see it here at this site, but note the comments below the link to the video that illustrate the disconnect between the reality and the rhetoric.

Obama begs supporters for money in new campaign video

Unfortunately, I believe it's the second, I wish I could say otherwise. But, when looking at how he was raised, his background, I believe what he wants for this country has nothing in common with what it was founded for.

 

[Barb]

I had the opportunity to visit a liberal board yesterday. I was dumbfounded at the lack of understanding concerning economics and how a business operates. In particular, they seemed absolutely convinced a business could just absorb costs and not pass them to consumers. Also firmly believed most businesses were "gouging" consumers.

Drawing from that experience, Obama is really speaking directly to these liberals in the socialist language they not only understand but believe completely.

No doubt. It's like some folks are short circuited somewhere in their thinking and are incapable of following a concept all the way from beginning to end. They honestly are incapable of seeing the whole big picture of what goes into making a business successful. I think the President is one of those 'short circuited' people. It's that or else we have to see a much more ominous and sinister motive behind his game plan.

It is the disingenousness of it that become so frustrating. Like in the recent 2-minute ad he put out begging for contributions to his campaign. You can see it here at this site, but note the comments below the link to the video that illustrate the disconnect between the reality and the rhetoric.

Obama begs supporters for money in new campaign video

Unfortunately, I believe it's the second, I wish I could say otherwise. But, when looking at how he was raised, his background, I believe what he wants for this country has nothing in common with what it was founded for.

You ass. Was it founded of the people, by the people, and FOR the people? That said, I guess our differences stem from who or WHAT people ARE.

If you believe that people aren't people, but legal constructs that neither bleed like people, die like people, nor are bound by any other biological restriction HUMAN people are, then I'd say you are a whore, and considering your stance on this subject, we've already settled on your PRICE.

 

[Listening]

It is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners.
Albert Camus

The fact remains that Grandpa Koch took Stalin's money and made piles of cash laying the foundation of Soviet oil infrastructure in the 1920s and early 1930s. He designed and built refineries, hosted Soviet engineers for training in Wichita, Kansas, and made an invaluable contribution to the rapid industrialization of the Soviet Union during Joseph Stalin’s first Five-Year Plan. This is a touchy issue for the Koch family: without the Commie Reds providing his future seed capital, Koch Industries would not exist today.

Your heroes are the slimeballs. They are one of the worst polluters on the planet. But I guess human life means little to the modern day Pharisee.

The Koch brothers are not their grandfather. Furthermore, unlike Joe kennedy, Grandpa Koch made his money legally. The Soviet Union was not our enemy in the 1920s and 1930s, and it was only one of the customers of Koch's firm. Many other U.S. firms sold their products and services to the Soviet Union. All the people you idolize who lived during the that period supported the Soviet Union. They did everything they could to help the Soviet Union. You look quite idiotic attacking the Kochs for doing business with a company that all your liberal heroes from the 1930s idolized.

Oil is only a small party of Koch industries, but nevertheless it's a product that's necessary for our civilization to function. Human life depends on the product Koch industries produces. Only environmental nutburgers like you think refining it makes you a "slimeball."

Why does the left take things out of context so much and lie ?

 

[Foxfyre]

It is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners.
Albert Camus

The fact remains that Grandpa Koch took Stalin's money and made piles of cash laying the foundation of Soviet oil infrastructure in the 1920s and early 1930s. He designed and built refineries, hosted Soviet engineers for training in Wichita, Kansas, and made an invaluable contribution to the rapid industrialization of the Soviet Union during Joseph Stalin’s first Five-Year Plan. This is a touchy issue for the Koch family: without the Commie Reds providing his future seed capital, Koch Industries would not exist today.

Your heroes are the slimeballs. They are one of the worst polluters on the planet. But I guess human life means little to the modern day Pharisee.

The Koch brothers are not their grandfather. Furthermore, unlike Joe kennedy, Grandpa Koch made his money legally. The Soviet Union was not our enemy in the 1920s and 1930s, and it was only one of the customers of Koch's firm. Many other U.S. firms sold their products and services to the Soviet Union. All the people you idolize who lived during the that period supported the Soviet Union. They did everything they could to help the Soviet Union. You look quite idiotic attacking the Kochs for doing business with a company that all your liberal heroes from the 1930s idolized.

Oil is only a small party of Koch industries, but nevertheless it's a product that's necessary for our civilization to function. Human life depends on the product Koch industries produces. Only environmental nutburgers like you think refining it makes you a "slimeball."

Why does the left take things out of context so much and lie ?

Because when an important issue is going badly for them, one of their strategies is to disrupt the conversation using any number of tactics to do that including changing the subject.

Let's don't let them do that.

President Obama has shown his full colors in his intent to marginalize, discredit, and diminish American business so that he can continue to transfer more resources and power to the federal government.

Let's don't allow anybody divert our attention away from that truth.

 

[Newby]

No doubt. It's like some folks are short circuited somewhere in their thinking and are incapable of following a concept all the way from beginning to end. They honestly are incapable of seeing the whole big picture of what goes into making a business successful. I think the President is one of those 'short circuited' people. It's that or else we have to see a much more ominous and sinister motive behind his game plan.

It is the disingenousness of it that become so frustrating. Like in the recent 2-minute ad he put out begging for contributions to his campaign. You can see it here at this site, but note the comments below the link to the video that illustrate the disconnect between the reality and the rhetoric.

Obama begs supporters for money in new campaign video

Unfortunately, I believe it's the second, I wish I could say otherwise. But, when looking at how he was raised, his background, I believe what he wants for this country has nothing in common with what it was founded for.

You ass. Was it founded of the people, by the people, and FOR the people? That said, I guess our differences stem from who or WHAT people ARE.

If you believe that people aren't people, but legal constructs that neither bleed like people, die like people, nor are bound by any other biological restriction HUMAN people are, then I'd say you are a whore, and considering your stance on this subject, we've already settled on your PRICE.

I hope someone knows what the hell you're talking about, cause I sure as hell don't. If you're implying that Obama is 'for the people', you're far more sold out than I am lady. The only 'people' you're for are the ones that seem to justify in your mind the taking of property from one set and bestowing it on another that you 'deem' worthy. That's not what freedom and liberty are about. You just whore yourself out to a different idealogy, and it's not what this country was founded on.

Obama is 100% about the state, and the power of the state over the people you profess to care about.

 

[Listening]

Unfortunately, I believe it's the second, I wish I could say otherwise. But, when looking at how he was raised, his background, I believe what he wants for this country has nothing in common with what it was founded for.

You ass. Was it founded of the people, by the people, and FOR the people? That said, I guess our differences stem from who or WHAT people ARE.

If you believe that people aren't people, but legal constructs that neither bleed like people, die like people, nor are bound by any other biological restriction HUMAN people are, then I'd say you are a whore, and considering your stance on this subject, we've already settled on your PRICE.

I hope someone knows what the hell you're talking about, cause I sure as hell don't. If you're implying that Obama is 'for the people', you're far more sold out than I am lady. The only 'people' you're for are the ones that seem to justify in your mind the taking of property from one set and bestowing it on another that you 'deem' worthy. That's not what freedom and liberty are about. You just whore yourself out to a different idealogy, and it's not what this country was founded on.

Obama is 100% about the state, and the power of the state over the people you profess to care about.

Sure.

Because people didn't build that...somebody else did.

Who ?

Obama sounds more and more like Al Gore whose main words were "We know better than you do what is good for you."

I often don't even let my doctor say that to me and I trust her.

 

[Barb]

Unfortunately, I believe it's the second, I wish I could say otherwise. But, when looking at how he was raised, his background, I believe what he wants for this country has nothing in common with what it was founded for.

You ass. Was it founded of the people, by the people, and FOR the people? That said, I guess our differences stem from who or WHAT people ARE.

If you believe that people aren't people, but legal constructs that neither bleed like people, die like people, nor are bound by any other biological restriction HUMAN people are, then I'd say you are a whore, and considering your stance on this subject, we've already settled on your PRICE.

I hope someone knows what the hell you're talking about, cause I sure as hell don't. If you're implying that Obama is 'for the people', you're far more sold out than I am lady. The only 'people' you're for are the ones that seem to justify in your mind the taking of property from one set and bestowing it on another that you 'deem' worthy. That's not what freedom and liberty are about. You just whore yourself out to a different idealogy, and it's not what this country was founded on.

Obama is 100% about the state, and the power of the state over the people you profess to care about.

You know perfectly well who, and WHAT I'm talking about, and which is which. So does listening. It doesn't read well with what you're spewing, but it is what it is.

Things are either going to get better for the majority of Americans WHO have taken hit after hit during the last 30 some years, or those like you are going to start claiming you was with us all along. I hope your nose grows, and it's mulched for the community garden.