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Some of the extreme conservative religionists here demonstrate the difference between faith hope and understanding empirical data.
Thank heavens for public schools, I am sure Jesus is saying.
I taught at one time and I'm flabergasted at all the misinformation out there about what goes on in a classroom on a day to day basis.
if you haven't been there you have no idea...
You seek to protect the public employee unions, not to provide a quality education to children.
Just as the food served in school cafeterias is costly, yet inferior, the education provided is costly and inferior, because there is no competition and the schools are run to benefit teachers and administrators, not to provide an education. After all, why should public schools focus on providing the service they are paid for? The have a captive customer.
This is why you fear choice, once there is competition, the inferior performance of public schools will be taken into account by the customers, who will choose higher quality. Further, you KNOW the public schools are inferior, or you would be confident that any parent would choose them. Instead, you fear that none will, not even left wingers - because ultimately, the product is inferior and even leftists want their children to do well.
Look, I've taught in both private and public and your basis for the cause of failure is way off base.
In a car race, what drivers are using the most effort and skill?
1. Guys up front that have a great setup with the car balanced and little turning of the steering wheel--
2. Guys in the back with cars that are loose (want to spin out) or tight, (won't turn) must constantly fight to keep the car straight, and are jerking the steering wheel all over the place--
From what I've seen and experienced, the guys in the rear are using extreme skill levels just to try and keep up. The guys up front could smoke a cigarette and drive with one hand.
If these were classrooms (cars) and teachers (drivers), which one do you think is working harder?
(Leaving out the fact that the car can't talk so a disruption example can't be used. But if it could, in what classroom is the teacher working hardest trying to maintain control?
What it boils down to is mostly what gets off the busses in the morning.
Look, I've taught in both private and public and your basis for the cause of failure is way off base.
In a car race, what drivers are using the most effort and skill?
1. Guys up front that have a great setup with the car balanced and little turning of the steering wheel--
2. Guys in the back with cars that are loose (want to spin out) or tight, (won't turn) must constantly fight to keep the car straight, and are jerking the steering wheel all over the place--
From what I've seen and experienced, the guys in the rear are using extreme skill levels just to try and keep up. The guys up front could smoke a cigarette and drive with one hand.
That must be why none of them ever crash...
I strongly urge that you stand next to the podium and shout at the driver, with your best Obama arrogance, "You didn't win that, someone else did."
If these were classrooms (cars) and teachers (drivers), which one do you think is working harder?
(Leaving out the fact that the car can't talk so a disruption example can't be used. But if it could, in what classroom is the teacher working hardest trying to maintain control?
What it boils down to is mostly what gets off the busses in the morning.
{If the only element is the student, then we should do away with teachers, use guards to keep the inmates, er students, in line, and employe electronic learning programs.
Although, I have experiences where teachers have challenged and inspired me to excel. I have had students tell me that I inspired them to put forth a bit more effort.
Perhaps your approach explains a great deal of the failure of the public schools}.
What the hell does winning the race have to do with what I said? I'm talking about effort in comparing teaching situations.
Perhaps your approach explains a great deal as to why logic classes should be manditory for posters.
You just blew off my legitimate anology with more hot air than has been assalting the Midwest over the last few months.
Let me simplify, teachers in 'failing schools' (what we're talking about are inner-city schools) have jobs that might force them to actually work harder than teachers in the affluent suburban schools while trying to get results the suburban schools take for granted.
Simply that.
Instead of discussing what I said you bring in Obama. What the hell does he have to do with what I was trying to explain?
My approach? What approach. I was explaining real world situations.
You have no idea where, what, or how I taught. My approach isn't involved in the examples I used.
Debate the theory I proposed. I hear enough political crap from the ads on TV.
The indoctrination rhetoric again.
The biggest problem facing schools is the complete lack of parenting by a large percentage of american parents.
You want kids to question rulers correct? Thats fine, but the minute somone questions or says something negative about the US you are the first to cry out thats anti american.
Well take a look from my aspect. If I have a teacher spouting off about how great the us is then I am going to the school board right now COMPLAINING about indoctrination.
__________________
What the hell does winning the race have to do with what I said? I'm talking about effort in comparing teaching situations.
You brought up race car drivers, sparky. I urge you to tell them they didn't win - they didn't do that, someone (Obama) else did.
Perhaps your approach explains a great deal as to why logic classes should be manditory for posters.
You just blew off my legitimate anology with more hot air than has been assalting the Midwest over the last few months.
Actually, I refuted your poorly chosen analogy in simile. (It means, "in the same line of reasoning.")
Work harder in what way? As jailers? Trying to keep peace in the inmates who have no interest in education?
One may question compulsory education in that case.
Instead of discussing what I said you bring in Obama. What the hell does he have to do with what I was trying to explain?
I'm urging you to tell race car drivers up at the podium that they didn't win the race. It's Obama's line, but you can borrow it.
My approach? What approach. I was explaining real world situations.
You have no idea where, what, or how I taught. My approach isn't involved in the examples I used.
Debate the theory I proposed. I hear enough political crap from the ads on TV.
The fact is that public schools are a failure, and the providing parents CHOICE in education is the only rational approach. Those who oppose choice are driven by knowledge that public schools are inferior and will NOT be chosen by the majority of parents.
Your generalization of 'public schools are failures' is not valid.
When compared (which is a favorite slanted ploy) with other nations, when the special ed and all others that don't do well are excluded from test taking and tracked in vocational directions U.S. schools do quite well.
Our system is not like other nations' systems.
The drivers on the podium know they won, but the "drivers" that finished in the back of the pack could have possibly put more effort into finishing somewhere toward the back and are catching all the grief for not doing anything to succeed.
There is a lot more factors they can't control...but they are blamed by the uninformed.
Your generalization of 'public schools are failures' is not valid.
In that case, they will do just fine in a competitive environment. The public schools can explain how they offer excellence in education and won't lose any students to parochial or other private schools.
When compared (which is a favorite slanted ploy) with other nations, when the special ed and all others that don't do well are excluded from test taking and tracked in vocational directions U.S. schools do quite well.
Ah, a straw man, how clever.
Of course, special ed has never been part of the scores used to determine academic competency. You're just blowing smoke in hopes of obscuring the facts.
Actually, ours is modeled on the Prussian system of the 19th century and is pretty well an exact duplicate. Most post-Soviet nations have abandoned the Prussian model, but not American educrats.
The drivers on the podium know they won, but the "drivers" that finished in the back of the pack could have possibly put more effort into finishing somewhere toward the back and are catching all the grief for not doing anything to succeed.
Ah yes, OBE - effort is more important than performance.
Of course this is idiocy, the incompetent may expend more effort than the master builder, but that will be scant comfort when the roof crashes in about you.
There is a lot more factors they can't control...but they are blamed by the uninformed.
They are blamed when they engage in idiocy like OBE and other fad methods that continually render poor results.
Blimpo is right on the money.
You don't know shit from shinola and everyone that is not as ignorant as you knows it.
Quit making an ass of yourself.
Blimpo is right on the money.
You don't know shit from shinola and everyone that is not as ignorant as you knows it.
Quit making an ass of yourself.
What a compelling argument you make..
So, they use OBE at your Jr. High, don't they?
OBE has nothing to do with the fact that you could not distiguish a grapheme from a phoneme
OBE has nothing to do with the fact that you could not distiguish a grapheme from a phoneme
Oh come now, this is about you protecting your little union, and there is NO WAY you can compete on a level playing field. Competition is the end of the fat cat educrats.
what union?
I'm in a right to work stste.
BTW, you would be no competition for me.
what union?
I'm in a right to work stste.
BTW, you would be no competition for me.
You turn to ad hominem attack because you cannot defend the prohibition of educational choice. Your only choice is to engage in logical fallacy in hopes of focusing the discussion on me, personally.
I have no problem taking you on in that regard: I'm clearly better educated and smarter than you - but that has zero bearing on the efficacy of educational choice.
Come on, Uncensored, you are the queen of ad hom on the board, second only to your king, Mr. Nick.
what are your qualifications to teach in any school much less have an informed opinion on what happens in one?
