14 Wacky "Facts" Kids Will Learn in Louisiana's Voucher Schools

[squeeze berry]

I understand that you can't defend your position. Opposition to educational choice is indefensible. Those like you, flaccidly spewing nonsense, do so to protect the positions of public employees without regard to the detriment to the students involved.

I'm not opposed to educational choice at all and neither is any educator that posts at USMB as far as I know. You just ASSume that since we are public school teachers we are radical left-wing union members. A number of us are right of center republicans.

the difference between us is that we have seen the elephant and recognize it for what it is. We have informed opinions and don't recite G.G. Liddy garbage from rote.

People can send their little angels to private schools as far as I'm concerned. but when they get to private school they are not necessarily getting the best teachers.
What private schools avoid is the far left end of the bell curve students and parents as well as the "element". Private schools have that advantage.


There will always be public schools for one reason or another. I'm a special ed teacher. I'll always be employed. We don't grow on trees.

Private schools do not "avoid" anything. Those schools have the freedom to accept those students which they believe would meet their standards. And of course who's parents have the means to afford the tuition.
Many private schools offer scholarships to bright and/or talented students who otherwise would not due to financial issues be able to attend.
THe far left end of the bell curve? Please explain.
"Element"...Please clarify in detail.
"Not necessarily getting the best teachers.".....I have heard/read this nonsense before. It comes from teacher's union reps, unionized teachers and pro labor politicians.
The union mantra that has been part of the narrative. That narrative is that only those who are members of unions can provide skilled workers.
92% of US workers say different.

Do private schools, excepting reform schools, accept the criminal element?
Hell no
Do you understand that there are no special education services in private schools? Huh?

Public school teachers are required to jump through qualification hoop after qualification hoop.

As a sped teacher I'm required to have a MEd at the very least as well as several endorsements and HQT in several areas.

If you think it's so easy, you should be the one doing it.

PS I have never talked to a union rep

 

[squeeze berry]

teachers to be held accountable but not students and parents ^


gotcha

35 years as students and volunteers?

but not one lesson planned or delivered

Doesn't matter. We are well versed on how the process works. Especially in light of the fact that since we became homeowners 15 years ago, we think it is our job to keep the fire lit under the asses of the school board as well as the administration and faculty of this county's school district. They are spending OUR money.
Based on that fact, yes by all means we demand accountability on the part of the very people who are with our kids and spending our money. We want results. We demand return on our investment.
Oh, I never intended to imply there is no accountability on the part of the parents/guardians and students. Quite the contrary. I have stated in the past and as a matter of fact in this thread that parental involvement in their child's education or lack of it, is a main reason for success or failure.
The " horse to water" excuse used by mainly teacher's union reps and many teachers themselves does not wash any longer. As previously stated, taxpayers are now demanding results. They are tired of having more of their earnings confiscated based on the cries of school boards and administrations with their tired mantra of "if we just had this next budget( tax) increase, we could improve (fill in the blank)...Guess what? It never happens.
Tell me, would you keep pouring your hard earned money into something with little or no return on investment or few positive results?
"We're trying" doesn't cut it any longer. There is no "try". There is only "do".

the horse to water argument is not a union rep statement. They are more politically correct believe it or not.

It's the people in the trenches that have to deal with students that simply are not motivated to do the work, are disruptive and cannot grasp concepts.

what do you expect?

the teacher to do the work for the kid?

No amount of accounability and browbeating a teacher will turn a kid into a competent student.

You do understand that, right?

 

[blimpo]

teachers to be held accountable but not students and parents ^


gotcha

35 years as students and volunteers?

but not one lesson planned or delivered

Doesn't matter. We are well versed on how the process works. Especially in light of the fact that since we became homeowners 15 years ago, we think it is our job to keep the fire lit under the asses of the school board as well as the administration and faculty of this county's school district. They are spending OUR money.
Based on that fact, yes by all means we demand accountability on the part of the very people who are with our kids and spending our money. We want results. We demand return on our investment.
Oh, I never intended to imply there is no accountability on the part of the parents/guardians and students. Quite the contrary. I have stated in the past and as a matter of fact in this thread that parental involvement in their child's education or lack of it, is a main reason for success or failure.
The " horse to water" excuse used by mainly teacher's union reps and many teachers themselves does not wash any longer. As previously stated, taxpayers are now demanding results. They are tired of having more of their earnings confiscated based on the cries of school boards and administrations with their tired mantra of "if we just had this next budget( tax) increase, we could improve (fill in the blank)...Guess what? It never happens.
Tell me, would you keep pouring your hard earned money into something with little or no return on investment or few positive results?
"We're trying" doesn't cut it any longer. There is no "try". There is only "do".

Man, that's a great little inspiring paragraph.

Instead of trying- I should do. "Ok students. Instead of trying to do the work we are going to do the work. Everyone be busy. That's nice."

That's so simple, why didn't I think of that...

 

[JakeStarkey]

What amazes me is that we are going to win with Romney with all of you scabs hanging onto the campaign.

Once Romney wins, you losers are gone.

Happy days are here again.

So says demagogue boy.

Your econ class must not be given learner surveys, or you have suppressed or altered them, if you are still teaching.

Aren't you supposed to be out stumping for Obama, fakey? Maybe telling lies about Paul Ryan?

 

[thereisnospoon]

I'm not opposed to educational choice at all and neither is any educator that posts at USMB as far as I know. You just ASSume that since we are public school teachers we are radical left-wing union members. A number of us are right of center republicans.

the difference between us is that we have seen the elephant and recognize it for what it is. We have informed opinions and don't recite G.G. Liddy garbage from rote.

People can send their little angels to private schools as far as I'm concerned. but when they get to private school they are not necessarily getting the best teachers.
What private schools avoid is the far left end of the bell curve students and parents as well as the "element". Private schools have that advantage.


There will always be public schools for one reason or another. I'm a special ed teacher. I'll always be employed. We don't grow on trees.

Private schools do not "avoid" anything. Those schools have the freedom to accept those students which they believe would meet their standards. And of course who's parents have the means to afford the tuition.
Many private schools offer scholarships to bright and/or talented students who otherwise would not due to financial issues be able to attend.
THe far left end of the bell curve? Please explain.
"Element"...Please clarify in detail.
"Not necessarily getting the best teachers.".....I have heard/read this nonsense before. It comes from teacher's union reps, unionized teachers and pro labor politicians.
The union mantra that has been part of the narrative. That narrative is that only those who are members of unions can provide skilled workers.
92% of US workers say different.

Do private schools, excepting reform schools, accept the criminal element?
Hell no
Do you understand that there are no special education services in private schools? Huh?

Public school teachers are required to jump through qualification hoop after qualification hoop.

As a sped teacher I'm required to have a MEd at the very least as well as several endorsements and HQT in several areas.

If you think it's so easy, you should be the one doing it.

PS I have never talked to a union rep

No..That's the point. Private schools offer exceptional educational opportunities. Why on earth would a private school admin invite an applicant with a criminal history and thus a propensity to commit MORE crime? Don't be ridiculous.
What do "special ed services" have to do with anything?
Qualification hoops? So what? Nature of the beast. Do you not think it possible that private schools screen their candidates just as if not more tightly? After all, the parents of the students are spending their hard earned money to have their kids attend. Surely you must realize that one slip up on the part of the school's hiring manager could result in a mass exodus of students. To imply that private schools do not fully vet their teachers is just ludicrous and smacks of envy.
I never stated nor implied teaching was "easy"..
This is the problem with you people. At any question or challenge you circle the wagons and accuse the person doing the questioning of impugning the teaching profession.
Last question...Why do you find it necessary to offer up your resume ? It's impertinent to the discussion.
You have never talked to a union rep...Ok. So what. Most union members never have a need to do so. Your point in stating that is...?

 

[thereisnospoon]

teachers to be held accountable but not students and parents ^


gotcha

35 years as students and volunteers?

but not one lesson planned or delivered

Doesn't matter. We are well versed on how the process works. Especially in light of the fact that since we became homeowners 15 years ago, we think it is our job to keep the fire lit under the asses of the school board as well as the administration and faculty of this county's school district. They are spending OUR money.
Based on that fact, yes by all means we demand accountability on the part of the very people who are with our kids and spending our money. We want results. We demand return on our investment.
Oh, I never intended to imply there is no accountability on the part of the parents/guardians and students. Quite the contrary. I have stated in the past and as a matter of fact in this thread that parental involvement in their child's education or lack of it, is a main reason for success or failure.
The " horse to water" excuse used by mainly teacher's union reps and many teachers themselves does not wash any longer. As previously stated, taxpayers are now demanding results. They are tired of having more of their earnings confiscated based on the cries of school boards and administrations with their tired mantra of "if we just had this next budget( tax) increase, we could improve (fill in the blank)...Guess what? It never happens.
Tell me, would you keep pouring your hard earned money into something with little or no return on investment or few positive results?
"We're trying" doesn't cut it any longer. There is no "try". There is only "do".

the horse to water argument is not a union rep statement. They are more politically correct believe it or not.

It's the people in the trenches that have to deal with students that simply are not motivated to do the work, are disruptive and cannot grasp concepts.

what do you expect?

the teacher to do the work for the kid?

No amount of accounability and browbeating a teacher will turn a kid into a competent student.

You do understand that, right?

Demanding results instead of the past where we taxpayers were expected to accept excuses is not browbeating. It's a change in the mindset which is going to force a change in the public school business model.
We taxpayers do not expect miracles. We expect accountability.
I agree there are kids who go to school with ZERO motivation to be there. These are kids that teachers unfortunately must endure. What's more it is the administrations which are perhaps the biggest culprits in the failure of public schools which tie the hands of classroom discipline.
The rules, regulations, threats of copious and frivolous law suits from parents, all the BS combined with political correctness and idiotic laws such as NC's "Sound and basic education" law. This law has essentially taken the weapon of expulsion away. For example, in the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Schools, kids convicted of crimes cannot be expelled. Even if the student has assaulted or committed another felony to a faculty member.
The parents complain to the school board and their local school admin about "predatory students". The reply is always the same.."Our hands are tied by the state".
So please, don't tell me I think teaching is easy BUT...teachers must have some kind of scrutiny over their performance and the performance of their students.

 

[thereisnospoon]

teachers to be held accountable but not students and parents ^


gotcha

35 years as students and volunteers?

but not one lesson planned or delivered

Doesn't matter. We are well versed on how the process works. Especially in light of the fact that since we became homeowners 15 years ago, we think it is our job to keep the fire lit under the asses of the school board as well as the administration and faculty of this county's school district. They are spending OUR money.
Based on that fact, yes by all means we demand accountability on the part of the very people who are with our kids and spending our money. We want results. We demand return on our investment.
Oh, I never intended to imply there is no accountability on the part of the parents/guardians and students. Quite the contrary. I have stated in the past and as a matter of fact in this thread that parental involvement in their child's education or lack of it, is a main reason for success or failure.
The " horse to water" excuse used by mainly teacher's union reps and many teachers themselves does not wash any longer. As previously stated, taxpayers are now demanding results. They are tired of having more of their earnings confiscated based on the cries of school boards and administrations with their tired mantra of "if we just had this next budget( tax) increase, we could improve (fill in the blank)...Guess what? It never happens.
Tell me, would you keep pouring your hard earned money into something with little or no return on investment or few positive results?
"We're trying" doesn't cut it any longer. There is no "try". There is only "do".

Man, that's a great little inspiring paragraph.

Instead of trying- I should do. "Ok students. Instead of trying to do the work we are going to do the work. Everyone be busy. That's nice."

That's so simple, why didn't I think of that...

Correct. In all aspects of life we are expected to accomplish our assigned tasks. Try to accomplish doesn't cut it.
If a doctor tells his patient after the appendectomy that "he tried to remove the organ but didn't quite get there, what happens? Or if I tell my employer " I tired real hard to do the task I was assigned" guess what? I get to go find another form of employment.
Look, school is not just about academics and extracurricular activities. It's about preparing children for life as adults. Preparing them for disappointment and reality. Perhaps you should not be so snarky when presented with the realities of the facts.

 

[thereisnospoon]

teachers to be held accountable but not students and parents ^


gotcha

35 years as students and volunteers?

but not one lesson planned or delivered

Doesn't matter. We are well versed on how the process works. Especially in light of the fact that since we became homeowners 15 years ago, we think it is our job to keep the fire lit under the asses of the school board as well as the administration and faculty of this county's school district. They are spending OUR money.
Based on that fact, yes by all means we demand accountability on the part of the very people who are with our kids and spending our money. We want results. We demand return on our investment.
Oh, I never intended to imply there is no accountability on the part of the parents/guardians and students. Quite the contrary. I have stated in the past and as a matter of fact in this thread that parental involvement in their child's education or lack of it, is a main reason for success or failure.
The " horse to water" excuse used by mainly teacher's union reps and many teachers themselves does not wash any longer. As previously stated, taxpayers are now demanding results. They are tired of having more of their earnings confiscated based on the cries of school boards and administrations with their tired mantra of "if we just had this next budget( tax) increase, we could improve (fill in the blank)...Guess what? It never happens.
Tell me, would you keep pouring your hard earned money into something with little or no return on investment or few positive results?
"We're trying" doesn't cut it any longer. There is no "try". There is only "do".

Man, that's a great little inspiring paragraph.

Instead of trying- I should do. "Ok students. Instead of trying to do the work we are going to do the work. Everyone be busy. That's nice."

That's so simple, why didn't I think of that...

It was not meant to be inspiring. What makes you think you should always be inspired?
Have you been raised to believe there is no such thing as disappointment?

 

[thereisnospoon]

What amazes me is that we are going to win with Romney with all of you scabs hanging onto the campaign.

Once Romney wins, you losers are gone.

Happy days are here again.

So says demagogue boy.

Your econ class must not be given learner surveys, or you have suppressed or altered them, if you are still teaching.

Aren't you supposed to be out stumping for Obama, fakey? Maybe telling lies about Paul Ryan?

Scabs? Yes 92% of us are "scabs"....For Christ's sake, get out of the 50's..

 

[Uncensored2008]

Scabs? Yes 92% of us are "scabs"....For Christ's sake, get out of the 50's..

Fakey Jake believes that government on every level should be run exclusively for the benefit of unionized government employees.

Just as Obama does.

 

[JakeStarkey]

4% of you are scabs, not mainstream, and you are gone, gone, gone after the election.

What amazes me is that we are going to win with Romney with all of you scabs hanging onto the campaign.

Once Romney wins, you losers are gone.

Happy days are here again.

Aren't you supposed to be out stumping for Obama, fakey? Maybe telling lies about Paul Ryan?

Scabs? Yes 92% of us are "scabs"....For Christ's sake, get out of the 50's..

 

[Uncensored2008]

4% of you are scabs, not mainstream, and you are gone, gone, gone after the election.

Fakey you fraud you, you're mentally retarded.

 

[squeeze berry]

4% of you are scabs, not mainstream, and you are gone, gone, gone after the election.

Fakey you fraud you, you're mentally retarded.

hey, I teach mentally retarded students.

you are insulting my students

 

[thereisnospoon]

4% of you are scabs, not mainstream, and you are gone, gone, gone after the election.

What amazes me is that we are going to win with Romney with all of you scabs hanging onto the campaign.

Once Romney wins, you losers are gone.

Happy days are here again.

Scabs? Yes 92% of us are "scabs"....For Christ's sake, get out of the 50's..

Right. Unions, like the South, will rise again!
Ahh Boy!

 

[thereisnospoon]

4% of you are scabs, not mainstream, and you are gone, gone, gone after the election.

Fakey you fraud you, you're mentally retarded.

hey, I teach mentally retarded students.

you are insulting my students

No...You perpetually offended nattering nabob, if he had stated "YOUR" students are retarded, you might have a case.

 

[blimpo]

Correct. In all aspects of life we are expected to accomplish our assigned tasks. Try to accomplish doesn't cut it.
If a doctor tells his patient after the appendectomy that "he tried to remove the organ but didn't quite get there, what happens? Or if I tell my employer " I tired real hard to do the task I was assigned" guess what? I get to go find another form of employment.
Look, school is not just about academics and extracurricular activities. It's about preparing children for life as adults. Preparing them for disappointment and reality. Perhaps you should not be so snarky when presented with the realities of the facts.

Answer to your first question is the patient is sent the bill.

Answer to the second question is in a doubt an employer would assign a task and expect perfection where there are multiple factors his employee can't control.

My inspiring post was sarcastic. The old "just do it" or "git'er done" looks great on paper, but it isn't that simple in the real world.

If you want to use the thought of factories- If a company keeps getting inferior raw material from different sources, they stop using those sources and look elsewhere. That is the advantage of private schools.

Being forced to take anything that walks through the door and demanding success is admirable but totally unrealistic.
If we recruited them, well, that's a different matter.

Jesus didn't convert all he talked to, but teachers are supposed to be held to a higher standard than that?

If you spend many days in a jr. high classroom you soon see the gap between "just do it" and reality. Believe me, it's a big one.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Answer to your first question is the patient is sent the bill.

Answer to the second question is in a doubt an employer would assign a task and expect perfection where there are multiple factors his employee can't control.

My inspiring post was sarcastic. The old "just do it" or "git'er done" looks great on paper, but it isn't that simple in the real world.

If you want to use the thought of factories- If a company keeps getting inferior raw material from different sources, they stop using those sources and look elsewhere. That is the advantage of private schools.

Being forced to take anything that walks through the door and demanding success is admirable but totally unrealistic.
If we recruited them, well, that's a different matter.

Jesus didn't convert all he talked to, but teachers are supposed to be held to a higher standard than that?

If you spend many days in a jr. high classroom you soon see the gap between "just do it" and reality. Believe me, it's a big one.

No one expects perfection. I used those examples in the hopes you and others here who seem to have this defeatist attitude, would realize that in the real world most workers have to perform and get results. Otherwise they are looking for employment elsewhere.
On the other hand, public school employees are employed by the public. Which means they are accountable to the taxpayers. These are the people who are tired of paying more while being promised improvements but are not getting the "bang for their buck"..They are now demanding answers. And demanding more accountability. That is the business moving forward. That is the way it is. Those are the conditions under one who wishes to work with the public must abide. If not, they are free to pursue other endeavors.

 

[blimpo]

No one expects perfection. I used those examples in the hopes you and others here who seem to have this defeatist attitude, would realize that in the real world most workers have to perform and get results. Otherwise they are looking for employment elsewhere.
On the other hand, public school employees are employed by the public. Which means they are accountable to the taxpayers. These are the people who are tired of paying more while being promised improvements but are not getting the "bang for their buck"..They are now demanding answers. And demanding more accountability. That is the business moving forward. That is the way it is. Those are the conditions under one who wishes to work with the public must abide. If not, they are free to pursue other endeavors.

I am pursuing other endeavors. I feel for the friends I have that work really hard teaching.

Unfortunately, many of them are scouting around for something else to do. The turnover rate is going to be a future concern, count on it.

My answer to this future problem is...duh.

Having taught for many years, it pains me to try my best to steer former students away from a career in education...but I do.

Some of those same taxpayers that are demanding results are probably some of the same people that send rude, self-centered, materialistic kids to school every day.

If I was a parent of some of these kids I'd be ashamed to let them out in public. Each year we see more and more kids that aren't ready for prime time.

You can't make chicken soup from chicken poop- is an old line I learned long ago. It still holds true except when it comes to education.

As Andy Rooney said years ago, we are raising some really dumb kids.
Video games, cell phones, texting, raging hormones, poor parenting might be lame excuses to some; but you still are going to have horses that won't drink. I think the things I've mentioned may be a big reason why they aren't "thirsty".

I feel blessed to be away from it all.

 

[Barb]

the most offensive:

3. "God used the Trail of Tears to bring many Indians to Christ."—America: Land That I Love, Teacher ed., A Beka Book, 1994

4. Africa needs religion: "Africa is a continent with many needs. It is still in need of the gospel…

5. Slave masters were nice guys: [...]—United States History for Christian Schools, 2nd ed., Bob Jones University Press, 1991

6. The KKK was A-OK: "[The Ku Klux] Klan in some areas of the country tried to be a means of reform, fighting the decline in morality and using the symbol of the cross. Klan targets were bootleggers, wife-beaters, and immoral movies. In some communities it achieved a certain respectability as it worked with politicians."—United States History for Christian Schools, 3rd ed., Bob Jones University Press, 2001

7. The Great Depression wasn't as bad as the liberals made it sound:

8. SCOTUS enslaved fetuses: "Ignoring 3,500 years of Judeo-Christian civilization, religion, morality, and law, the Burger Court held that an unborn child was not a living person but rather the "property" of the mother (much like slaves were considered property in the 1857 case of Dred Scott v. Sandford)."—American Government in Christian Perspective, 2nd ed., A Beka Book, 1997

9. The Red Scare isn't over yet: "It is no wonder that Satan hates the family and has hurled his venom against it in the form of Communism."— American Government in Christian Perspective, 2nd ed., A Beka Book, 1997

10. Mark Twain and Emily Dickinson were a couple of hacks:

12. Gay people "have no more claims to special rights than child molesters or rapists."—Teacher's Resource Guide to Current Events for Christian Schools, 1998-1999, Bob Jones University Press, 1998

 

[squeeze berry]

No one expects perfection. I used those examples in the hopes you and others here who seem to have this defeatist attitude, would realize that in the real world most workers have to perform and get results. Otherwise they are looking for employment elsewhere.
On the other hand, public school employees are employed by the public. Which means they are accountable to the taxpayers. These are the people who are tired of paying more while being promised improvements but are not getting the "bang for their buck"..They are now demanding answers. And demanding more accountability. That is the business moving forward. That is the way it is. Those are the conditions under one who wishes to work with the public must abide. If not, they are free to pursue other endeavors.

no one, including you, could possibly live up to those standards

BTW, I have worked in the "real world" for many years. Teaching is a different kettle of fish and it's more difficult.

But I'm certain that none of anyone else says will make a difference to you. You are a know-it-all.