53% of Democrats Hold a Favorable View of Socialism

[rightwinger]

You've said enough retarded shit through the tears here.

Yes, because to you, the Government actually doing things for the people is retarded

 

[Whodatsaywhodat.]

For years they've denied they are a pro-socialist party. Kind of hard to do that now when that view makes up the majority, isn't it?

Page 3

https://scri.siena.edu/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Custom-Crosstabs-Combine-Q4-and-Q5-combined.pdf

They lie about everything.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Yes, because to you, the Government actually doing things for the people is retarded

I gave you the last word retard.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

What is socialism?

You have socialism which is the government controlling the means of production.
You have socialism which is like nationalized healthcare.

Which one do people mean?
Probably they mean both. Probably they aren't even sure what they mean.
Most people have no idea what socialism is.

Its all about the free stuff from the govt.

 

[CowboyTed]

Yeah. The reality is that people want something different. But they're so unable to use the internet to find out what else exists out there.

I mean, when I tell people on this forum about Proportional Representation, 19 out of every 20 responses is like talking to a rock. They don't want to know. It's not something they've heard of, or they think they already have it, and who wants to learn about different non-American stuff anyway.

Stoopid is as stoopid does.

Frigid,
Big Fan of Promotional Representation with Single Vote Transfer..

I think this can be described by where I was living almost 20 years ago now... I was in Mumbai for 8 months. Every 3-4 days the newspaper would have a poll or something telling us how great Mumbai was... It was this great or it was this brilliant. Celebrities would land off the the plane and first question was 'how great is Mumbai?', they usually gave the polite answer... Truth was, it was a shithole, it was corrupt, poor dirty mess.. But they thought is was great and more importantly they thought everyone else was getting it wrong.

Then we meet US exceptionalism, US No.1. No other country is freerer (not true), everyone else wants to be American (not true)... But what this does is stop Americans looking to other countries and see that they have many US problems generally solved...I will say that other countries have no problem seeing a good idea in other countries and robbing them (care plans in healthcare which are used worldwide were implemented in Florida in the 90s)......
Actually Micheal Moore did movie about this a while back..

Where to Invade Next (2015) ⭐ 7.5 | Documentary, Comedy

2h | R

www.imdb.com

 

[CowboyTed]

Its all about the free stuff from the govt.

So are roads.....

So you want to ban roads?

 

[LordBrownTrout]

So are roads.....

So you want to ban roads?

We pay taxes on roads, highways, interstates. It ain't free.

 

[CowboyTed]

I suspect that the United States will slowly-but-surely morph into a hybrid society of some kind, mixing capitalism and socialism in some way.

We are now a nation of 330,000,000 or more and the underlying social contract and economic modeling have been changing since the 1930s anyway.

There are a great many aspects of individual and community life that are best left untouched and best left to the individual citizen and his associations.

There are a great many aspects of community life that are best done collectively owing to economies and efficiencies of scale and complexity or diffuclty.

The trick is to find the best possible balance between the two polar opposites.

So far we have not been terribly successful in this regard, still hung over, it seems, from nearly a half-century -long Cold War to offset Communism.

We'll find that Middle Ground eventually, as America learns to tame and set aside and ignore both Left Wing LibProg flakes and Right Wingnuts.

Agreed...

US has many social programs already but they electorate can't seem to understand that it is a balance...

They would be helped a lot if they could see how other countries are run... It shows alternatives...

No country is run the same because no people are the same... Ireland is slightly more to the right of France economically, Germany Health system is to the right of UK but to the left of France...

No one has it all figured out... Some preform very well in some areas, Finland in Education (is an example), France in Healthcare,....

US would learn that in some areas they are leaders and in other they are not (and this varies by state as well)...

Generally EU would be more inclined to say US taxes are a bit low and there isn't enough Government Services... they would point to the lowest tax states have the lowest living conditions(highest poverty, low median wage...)

 

[CowboyTed]

Don't forget Communism. A big part of our economy is based on the Communist model.

You have a point the Government does own a lot of property.

Saying that in a lot of cases they need too or the people want them too...

 

[frigidweirdo]

Its all about the free stuff from the govt.

Yeah, if you're at kindergarten level.
And free stuff happens in capitalism too.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Frigid,
Big Fan of Promotional Representation with Single Vote Transfer..

I think this can be described by where I was living almost 20 years ago now... I was in Mumbai for 8 months. Every 3-4 days the newspaper would have a poll or something telling us how great Mumbai was... It was this great or it was this brilliant. Celebrities would land off the the plane and first question was 'how great is Mumbai?', they usually gave the polite answer... Truth was, it was a shithole, it was corrupt, poor dirty mess.. But they thought is was great and more importantly they thought everyone else was getting it wrong.

Then we meet US exceptionalism, US No.1. No other country is freerer (not true), everyone else wants to be American (not true)... But what this does is stop Americans looking to other countries and see that they have many US problems generally solved...I will say that other countries have no problem seeing a good idea in other countries and robbing them (care plans in healthcare which are used worldwide were implemented in Florida in the 90s)......
Actually Micheal Moore did movie about this a while back..

Where to Invade Next (2015) ⭐ 7.5 | Documentary, Comedy

2h | R

www.imdb.com

Yeah, this is creating your own fantasy world and living in it. Voting for the fantasy world. Happened in Germany in 1990. Helmot Kohl said "vote for me, it'll be amazing" so they did. What they got was something completely different, and they weren't prepared for it.

That's the problem. If you vote for something that's not real, how will you get something good?

 

[Mac1958]

The best societies combine some of both. As a strictly economic system, socialism fails. But pure capitalism reduces human beings to “capital” and produces huge wealth inequalities.

Sure. There is no pure system. The task is to find the optimum place along the economic continuum.

What you point out includes nuance and complexity, and that's just too damn complicated for many.

 

[CowboyTed]

We pay taxes on roads, highways, interstates. It ain't free.

You agree every one can walk down the roads for free?

The Government using taxpayers money built and maintains the roads for the benefit of society...
The road is the product provided solely by the government as means of transport between two points.

So roads are a socialist program...

To make that capitalism and private entity would build the road and charge people to use the road...

 

[Mac1958]

Yeah. The reality is that people want something different. But they're so unable to use the internet to find out what else exists out there.

I mean, when I tell people on this forum about Proportional Representation, 19 out of every 20 responses is like talking to a rock. They don't want to know. It's not something they've heard of, or they think they already have it, and who wants to learn about different non-American stuff anyway.

Stoopid is as stoopid does.

This kind of thing is essentially impossible to explain to anyone whose intellectual elasticity has essentially calcified.

 

[Mac1958]

As with many things in life, there needs to be a balance.

Too complicated for many.

 

[CowboyTed]

Yeah, this is creating your own fantasy world and living in it. Voting for the fantasy world. Happened in Germany in 1990. Helmot Kohl said "vote for me, it'll be amazing" so they did. What they got was something completely different, and they weren't prepared for it.

That's the problem. If you vote for something that's not real, how will you get something good?

Generally in Europe they have the 'Show us it working somewhere else motto...'

So if you want change something, show it working somewhere else....

A few journalists and interviews later and they see what it is really like...

Might not be the most imaginative but stops the bull shitters...

 

[martybegan]

So you are against roads, police, firemen.....

That isn't socialism, that is government functions.

 

[martybegan]

Agreed...

US has many social programs already but they electorate can't seem to understand that it is a balance...

They would be helped a lot if they could see how other countries are run... It shows alternatives...

No country is run the same because no people are the same... Ireland is slightly more to the right of France economically, Germany Health system is to the right of UK but to the left of France...

No one has it all figured out... Some preform very well in some areas, Finland in Education (is an example), France in Healthcare,....

US would learn that in some areas they are leaders and in other they are not (and this varies by state as well)...

Generally EU would be more inclined to say US taxes are a bit low and there isn't enough Government Services... they would point to the lowest tax states have the lowest living conditions(highest poverty, low median wage...)

The welfare State isn't socialism, it still sucks, but its not a means of production, nor a major component of the economy.

 

[CowboyTed]

Sure. There is no pure system. The task is to find the optimum place along the economic continuum.

What you point out includes nuance and complexity, and that's just too damn complicated for many.

Actually the main problem is the News media in US... It involves winning ratings and creating tribes and having that tribe just listen to what they want to hear...

Lets look at the UK... TV wise there are about four main sources of news:

• BBC (24 hr)
• ITV
• Channel 4
• Sky News (24 hr)

No have a bias really... Very hard to see one when swapping between them... None do sensationalism, Sky would be the closest but would be unrecognisable to US audience...

Channel 4 would be known for more in depth coverage, this would be more like VICE news in US... but it is daily and covers the main news stories...

Generally they give the same news... (Newspapers are a different world, Murdoch is heavily invested in a number of them and there was always the News of the World scandal)

 

[frigidweirdo]

This kind of thing is essentially impossible to explain to anyone whose intellectual elasticity has essentially calcified.

Or was always a stick of rock.