Abortion and how men are getting screwed.

[Michelle420]

I don't think that is true in most states, but even if it were, she has no obligation to get court approval to terminate the child, why should he to terminate financial responsibility?

I said if the courts grant it, and if they do then it absolutely is true.

I've posted a link about it.

Amy pointed out it may not be easy to get a court to agree to it but it also is not impossible, some states it's easier to terminate your parental rights then other states.

But "if" the court grants it, then you have no responsibility.

You didn't answer the question, if she has no obligation to seek court approval, why should he?

I never said anyone should. I said there is a legal way to pursue it if a person wants to.

 

[Michelle420]

That's a big
IF

It really depends on the state.

Some states are easier to relinquish and terminate your parental rights.

Once that is done you have no responsibility financially or otherwise to the child.

Most states don't allow this at all, unless there's someone else who is ready, willing and able to accept full financial responsibility for the child in your place.

If not, you're shit out of luck. The courts are hip to the coercion that takes place that compels women to file to relieve dads of all responsibility.

Also, if that woman seeks any sort of insurance with teh state (and that's most mothers these days) the state REQUIRES the name of the father so the STATE can pursue child support *on behalf* of the child.

See that's what people do...they want to relieve the dad of responsibility..and then turn around and expect the state to pick up the bill.

It doesn't work like that. If you think it does, you're woefully ignorant.

You can petition to terminate your parental rights in court.

Most people do not do it.

It is usually done when a women remarries and she wants to new husband to "adopt" the kid legally , in that case she may ask the birth father if he would be wiling to relinquish his parental rights. If he does he has no financial or any or obligation or relationship with the child.

You also see termination of parental rights in adoption cases.

But certainly any person can petition the court to request termination of their parental rights.

How Can a Parent’s Rights be Terminated?

There are 2 ways to terminate parental rights: voluntary termination and involuntary termination. Parental rights are terminated on an individual basis; one birth parent can have his or her parental rights terminated while the other parent’s rights remain unaffected.
Voluntary Termination of Parental Rights

A voluntary termination is agreed upon by both birth parents. Courts use certain factors to determine if voluntary termination of parental rights should be granted. These include:
Whether either parent has been subject to:
Undue Influence
Duress
Improper Pressure from parents, friends, relatives, doctors, or acquaintances
Whether a birth parent is under the influence of any drug, medicine, or substance that might affect his or her judgment
Whenever the parents have a reason for resigning their parental rights
Whether termination of parental rights is in the best interests of the child

Termination of Parental Rights | LegalMatch Law Library

25 USC § 1913 - Parental rights; voluntary termination | Title 25 - Indians | U.S. Code | LII / Legal Information Institute

 

[Michelle420]

Men cannot just terminate their parental rights. It has to be court approved, and courts rarely terminate parental rights simply because one, or both, parties wish to.

Men or Women can petition the court to terminate their parental rights and it varies state to state on how easy or not easy that is to achieve.

http://www.jud.ct.gov/webforms/forms/jm060.pdf

http://www.liftonline.org/pdf/en_tpr.pdf

How to Terminate Parental Rights | eHow.com

 

[Brawd]

Ouch, Drifter is owning folks in this thread.

.

 

[Michelle420]

Ouch, Drifter is owning folks in this thread.

.

We are just having a discussion.

I try not to make it personal.

 

[koshergrl]

Cuz after all, we aren't talking about personal matters. Just life, death, murder, sex...did I leave anything out?

 

[High_Gravity]

Cuz after all, we aren't talking about personal matters. Just life, death, murder, sex...did I leave anything out?

Money.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Men get screwed? I always thought that if a conception happens from two people having sex, both people got screwed.

All I said was that men don't have the same options to abandon a child that women do.

 

[Brawd]

Sad poll, think of the implications this is ultimately is saying.

 

[Michelle420]

Cuz after all, we aren't talking about personal matters. Just life, death, murder, sex...did I leave anything out?

We are talking about legal choices and legal options.

Brawd just likes to stir the pot when she's not smoking pot.

 

[koshergrl]

I know what we are talking about, and I don't need you to repeatedly try to pretend I'm speaking to a different topic. You can call it whatever you like, but we are talking about life, death, murder and sex. Legality doesn't define those things, you lost that lame argument a long time ago. Stop pretending you didn't notice.

 

[Cowman]

Welcome to the wonderful world of asymmetry.

 

[Michelle420]

I know what we are talking about, and I don't need you to repeatedly try to pretend I'm speaking to a different topic. You can call it whatever you like, but we are talking about life, death, murder and sex. Legality doesn't define those things, you lost that lame argument a long time ago. Stop pretending you didn't notice.

I was not in an argument.

This is just a discussion and that's all it is.

 

[koshergrl]

No, it's an argument. The people like you are insisting that it is perfectly okay to commit murder if it's *legal*...it's just a question of what the law says.

People like me maintain the law does not have the authority to legalize murder.

Get it?

 

[Cowman]

No, it's an argument. The people like you are insisting that it is perfectly okay to commit murder if it's *legal*...it's just a question of what the law says.

People like me maintain the law does not have the authority to legalize murder.

Get it?

I have to say... Koshergrl is just a Peta protester in a different form, for a different cause.

 

[Michelle420]

No, it's an argument. The people like you are insisting that it is perfectly okay to commit murder if it's *legal*...it's just a question of what the law says.

People like me maintain the law does not have the authority to legalize murder.

Get it?

I haven't insisted anything.

I have just discussed legal facts.

I actually have not given any personal opinion one way or the other.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Lets start with a guy that admits, "I stuck my pencil in this woman and she got pregnant."
So now he says, I want there to be an abortion. She says no way.
My question is: why doesn't his obligation end right there? If "as women declare" that both men and women are equally responcible for a pregnancy then why don't men have equal say in the disposition of the event?

Because:

It is an inescapable biological fact that state regulation with respect to the child a woman is carrying will have a far greater impact on the mother's liberty than on the father's. The effect of state regulation on a woman's protected liberty is doubly deserving of scrutiny in such a case, as the State has touched not only upon the private sphere of the family but upon the very bodily integrity of the pregnant woman.

Planned Parenthood of Southeastern Pa. v. Casey, 505 U.S. 833 (1992)

The law is based on experience rather than logic. The problem with this maxim is that many judicial decisions are influenced by history, politics and personal biases. Unfortunately, we have to live with them until they become transparently ridiculous and are overturned.

Actually not, Griswold/Roe/Casey is both logical and consistent, predicated on accepted and settled Constitutional case law subject to decades of judicial review in the context of substantive due process. It places limits on government authority while protecting individual liberty.

The mistake you and others on the right make is to incorrectly perceive the Supreme Court as the 'solver of all problems.'

It is not.

It was neither the responsibility nor the intent of the Roe or Casey Courts to 'solve' the abortion problem; rather, the Court's sole responsibility is to review laws that restricted or denied privacy rights to determine their constitutionality.

The responsibility of solving the abortion problem rests with policy makers and citizens, not the courts. And it's the responsibility of policy makers and citizens to pursue solutions to the abortion problem which conform to Constitutional case law; when policy makers and citizens fail in that regard, and enact measures offensive to the Constitution, the courts are compelled to weight in.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Yes it is....no matter how many times you try to tell me it isn't.

(My bold)

No, abortion is not murder. As long as Roe v. Wade is the legal framework, the courts recognize a limited right to abortion. & therefore, any abortion within that framework is permissible, & thus is not a murder.

What matters in courts of law is what the court says is permissible.

However the law is often wrong. Nazi law legalized the killing of innocents; likewise does sharia law make murder legal.

It's still murder, and human rights violations.

Nonsense.

The law simply excludes a means perceived to end abortion that is clearly un-Constitutional; there are many more efficient ways to address the problem of abortion that don’t resort to making criminals of women and their doctors.

 

[koshergrl]

No, it's an argument. The people like you are insisting that it is perfectly okay to commit murder if it's *legal*...it's just a question of what the law says.

People like me maintain the law does not have the authority to legalize murder.

Get it?

I haven't insisted anything.

I have just discussed legal facts.

I actually have not given any personal opinion one way or the other.

So what is your purpose here, if you have no opinion whatever...?

 

[Michelle420]

No, it's an argument. The people like you are insisting that it is perfectly okay to commit murder if it's *legal*...it's just a question of what the law says.

People like me maintain the law does not have the authority to legalize murder.

Get it?

I haven't insisted anything.

I have just discussed legal facts.

I actually have not given any personal opinion one way or the other.

So what is your purpose here, if you have no opinion whatever...?

The original post asked questions and I answered him with legal options.