Abortion and how men are getting screwed.

[High_Gravity]

If he doesn't want a kid he can terminate his parental rights and won't be legally obligated.

He will be financially obligated! He will have to pay child support, get healthcare, split medical bills and in many case split daycare costs and pay for college!

The mother can't even legal get the father out of child support. The only for the father to get out of child support is if BOTH parents give up the child to adoption!

If the woman doesn't file child support you can actually get away with not paying it.

 

[Michelle420]

I don't give a shit about your personal opinion. You're scum.

You don;t know me or what I think of it personally.

What you think is scum is the law which are the facts of the matter.

shes not too bright

She doesn't know me and so I don't take it personal even though she tries hard to make t personal.

I think the subject is very emotional for her as it is for a lot of folks.

But the reality is it is legal to have an abortion and so instead of being mad at a person she should address the real issue which is she is mad about the law.

 

[koshergrl]

I don't give a shit about your personal opinion. You're scum.

You don;t know me or what I think of it personally.

What you think is scum is the law which are the facts of the matter.

Er, no.

I think the PEOPLE who support killing babies and additionally who support the idea that men should be able to desert the women and children they impregnate if the woman decides against an abortion, are scum.

If that is you, then you are scum. It has nothing to do with your personal opinion. I'm sure you think you're a fine person. It doesn't matter.

 

[Michelle420]

I don't give a shit about your personal opinion. You're scum.

You don;t know me or what I think of it personally.

What you think is scum is the law which are the facts of the matter.

Er, no.

I think the PEOPLE who support killing babies and additionally who support the idea that men should be able to desert the women and children they impregnate if the woman decides against an abortion, are scum.

If that is you, then you are scum. It has nothing to do with your personal opinion. I'm sure you think you're a fine person. It doesn't matter.

But you don't know where I stand.

I only posted what is legal and gave information on legal options.

You think what is legal and legal options that are available are scum.

 

[AmyNation]

Men have equal rights over their children. They do not have equal rights over the fetus, simply because that would grant men rights over someone else's body. I don't think anyone really wants men to have equal rights over a fetus anyway, they would have equal rights to terminate if that was the case.

Men should have an opt out though, in the long run it would be better for both the woman and the man. The woman should be required by law to serve any potential fathers with paper informing them of the pregnancy before the end of the 1st trimester, and the father should be required to agree to parenthood or opt out.

At this point the woman can either opt out herself or go forward knowing she will be solely supporting the future child.

No they don't.

If a woman wants to abandon a child she can with no monetary requirements for care.

A man cannot do that and gets stuck paying for it.

Are you talking about safe haven laws?

 

[koshergrl]

You don;t know me or what I think of it personally.

What you think is scum is the law which are the facts of the matter.

shes not too bright

She doesn't know me and so I don't take it personal even though she tries hard to make t personal.

I think the subject is very emotional for her as it is for a lot of folks.

But the reality is it is legal to have an abortion and so instead of being mad at a person she should address the real issue which is she is mad about the law.

Slavery and human culling were perfectly legal in the US under the law, in the past. It is legal to kill your wife or daughter if she is raped in countries with sharia law. Nazis legally wiped out 6 million Jews.

What is legal at the time, when it comes to the slaughter of innocents and the exploitation of women and children, doesn't necessarily hold up later, if you are violating human rights under a totalitarian regime. You might want to remember that. Nobody gave a shit when those on trial at Nuremburg said they were legally authorized to kill people....

 

[Michelle420]

shes not too bright

She doesn't know me and so I don't take it personal even though she tries hard to make t personal.

I think the subject is very emotional for her as it is for a lot of folks.

But the reality is it is legal to have an abortion and so instead of being mad at a person she should address the real issue which is she is mad about the law.

Slavery and human culling were perfectly legal in the US under the law, in the past. It is legal to kill your wife or daughter if she is raped in countries with sharia law. Nazis legally wiped out 6 million Jews.

What is legal at the time, when it comes to the slaughter of innocents and the exploitation of women and children, doesn't necessarily hold up later, if you are violating human rights under a totalitarian regime. You might want to remember that. Nobody gave a shit when those on trial at Nuremburg said they were legally authorized to kill people....

Of course through time those laws were changed.

It is now against the law.

 

[koshergrl]

It wasn't illegal at the time, however.
And those people were still found guilty, for crimes committed under the auspices of depraved and disgusting "law". Funny how that works.

BTW, men are still butchering women and girls with the blessings of sharia law. Is it murder?

Of course it is.

 

[Michelle420]

It wasn't illegal at the time, however.
And those people were still found guilty, for crimes committed under the auspices of depraved and disgusting "law". Funny how that works.

BTW, men are still butchering women and girls with the blessings of sharia law. Is it murder?

Of course it is.

All law is socially constructed, it stands to reason that it is not infalliable, but in a civilized society it usually requires activism and enough votes to change a law.

If a law is in effect is unjust it does not change the power behind the law unless people decide to change it.

 

[Skull Pilot]

If he doesn't want a kid he can terminate his parental rights and won't be legally obligated.

He will be financially obligated! He will have to pay child support, get healthcare, split medical bills and in many case split daycare costs and pay for college!

The mother can't even legal get the father out of child support. The only for the father to get out of child support is if BOTH parents give up the child to adoption!

If the woman doesn't file child support you can actually get away with not paying it.

That's a big
IF

 

[Michelle420]

He will be financially obligated! He will have to pay child support, get healthcare, split medical bills and in many case split daycare costs and pay for college!

The mother can't even legal get the father out of child support. The only for the father to get out of child support is if BOTH parents give up the child to adoption!

If the woman doesn't file child support you can actually get away with not paying it.

That's a big
IF

It really depends on the state.

Some states are easier to relinquish and terminate your parental rights.

Once that is done you have no responsibility financially or otherwise to the child.

 

[NoNukes]

Men get screwed? I always thought that if a conception happens from two people having sex, both people got screwed.

 

[High_Gravity]

He will be financially obligated! He will have to pay child support, get healthcare, split medical bills and in many case split daycare costs and pay for college!

The mother can't even legal get the father out of child support. The only for the father to get out of child support is if BOTH parents give up the child to adoption!

If the woman doesn't file child support you can actually get away with not paying it.

That's a big
IF

Oh I know, most of them are filing but there is a small number who don't.

 

[GHook93]

I agree with you. Women can opt out, men should have that same option.

If that was the case, then most men would opt out! That is reality kids are expensive and child support is a gigantic burden!

I don't think most men will opt out. That conclusion supposes that men naturally dont care about their children, I disagree.

I am a father of four and love my kids, I would disgruntling pay child support at this point to maintain a relationship with my kids if I my wife kicks me out.
However, if I wasn't married and got one passed the ball keeper and I had the option of walking and not paying or staying and paying, I would walk!
Heck most married men would leave and not pay if that was the option!

 

[Esmeralda]

Lets start with a guy that admits, "I stuck my pencil in this woman and she got pregnant."
So now he says, I want there to be an abortion. She says no way.
My question is: why doesn't his obligation end right there? If "as women declare" that both men and women are equally responcible for a pregnancy then why don't men have equal say in the disposition of the event?

There is a very simple way to avoid this problem: get a vasectomy. They’re reversible, and then you will have no worries about getting anyone pregnant. When you get married and want a child, you can get it reversed. Most men refuse to do this though; they think it will affect their manhood somehow or affect their lovemaking. Neither is true.

 

[GHook93]

If the woman doesn't file child support you can actually get away with not paying it

Even if the woman doesn't file and the State finds out about it, they State will bring the poor guy to court regardless of the woman's desires. This esp happens when the mother applies for some government service, esp medicaid, welfare, section 8, daycare assistance, food stamps, education assistance etc. During the disclosure stage a single mother has to state what she is getting in child support. If the child is a minor and the mother is not getting child support, the State will bring that poor guy to court and force him to pay!

 

[koshergrl]

If the woman doesn't file child support you can actually get away with not paying it.

That's a big
IF

It really depends on the state.

Some states are easier to relinquish and terminate your parental rights.

Once that is done you have no responsibility financially or otherwise to the child.

Most states don't allow this at all, unless there's someone else who is ready, willing and able to accept full financial responsibility for the child in your place.

If not, you're shit out of luck. The courts are hip to the coercion that takes place that compels women to file to relieve dads of all responsibility.

Also, if that woman seeks any sort of insurance with teh state (and that's most mothers these days) the state REQUIRES the name of the father so the STATE can pursue child support *on behalf* of the child.

See that's what people do...they want to relieve the dad of responsibility..and then turn around and expect the state to pick up the bill.

It doesn't work like that. If you think it does, you're woefully ignorant.

 

[OKTexas]

Unless he finds a way to terminate his parental rights.

If he terminates parental rights and the court grants it, he has no financial obligation.

I don't think that is true in most states, but even if it were, she has no obligation to get court approval to terminate the child, why should he to terminate financial responsibility?

I said if the courts grant it, and if they do then it absolutely is true.

I've posted a link about it.

Amy pointed out it may not be easy to get a court to agree to it but it also is not impossible, some states it's easier to terminate your parental rights then other states.

But "if" the court grants it, then you have no responsibility.

You didn't answer the question, if she has no obligation to seek court approval, why should he?

 

[High_Gravity]

If the woman doesn't file child support you can actually get away with not paying it

Even if the woman doesn't file and the State finds out about it, they State will bring the poor guy to court regardless of the woman's desires. This esp happens when the mother applies for some government service, esp medicaid, welfare, section 8, daycare assistance, food stamps, education assistance etc. During the disclosure stage a single mother has to state what she is getting in child support. If the child is a minor and the mother is not getting child support, the State will bring that poor guy to court and force him to pay!

If the mother doesn't file for any assistance, does the government still bring the guy in for child support?

 

[koshergrl]

No.

But the way our insurance system is now set up, almost all families who don't have insurance provided for them will apply for state insurance; the income standard is so high...and the state INSISTS that unless there is physical danger, they are allowed to pursue and collect child support on behalf of the children.

If arrears are owed to the children, and the state is able to recover them (via garnished wages or taxes, for example) then those arrears will be seized and claimed by the state if they have paid for medical care for the filing group.

Welcome to government health care for all.

Not only that...if a mother states she doesn't know who the father is, the state can require her to cough up some names of *possibles* and then they will, at their own expense, go down through the line, and conduct paternity testing until they either find the dad or rule out every person on the list.

Hope you enjoy the nanny state. It's just a short time before women are dragged screaming from their houses and submit to state-decreed sterilization, abortion, etc....