African Presence in Pre-Columbian Times

[GreenBean]

Not a tremendous amount on the Web re: this topic that is credible, there are two links below but you should aso try They Came Before Columbus: The African Presence in Ancient America ISBN: 0812968174


[ame=http://youtu.be/3FqbXLgIXx0]Dr Ivan Van Sertima The African Presence In Ancient America part 1 of 5 - YouTube[/ame]

Sculptures Showing Africans in the Americas before Columbus

Africans in Ancient America

 

[GreenBean]

I am aware of their claims and that's why I thought them not very credible until I found out what they had accomplished in getting at least a percentage of their land back. I know the US doesn't recognize them and that makes a ton of sense. My point and why I even started this thread is how did they win the court case for their land without proof and how is it they are recognized by the UN? That doesn't make any sense that the US would give away land to a nation they claim to not recognize unless they just wanted to shut them up. It also doesn't make sense that the UN would recognize them. They are literally considered a nation within the US internationally. In light of those facts I am much more inclined to give their claims some credence. To me its a very interesting subject because it only makes sense if their story is true. Check this PDF out of their UN creds.

http://www.nationalrepublicregistry.com/public/2012/FL/08.16.000003.pdf

They won the case in 1991 as descendants of of the WIchita / Washtaw but the case doe not lend any credibility to the claims of African Ancestry.

The Black Mojave are an anomaly - they were not of the same racial stock as Native Americans - they appeared to be Black - possibly migrated from the pacific or more likely from further south and descended of Olmec and or Mende stock. But notably African .

See thats what is not making sense. Why are they not recognized by the US like the other Native American tribes are then?

They are, but their gene pool is now mixed with all post-Columbian migrants . They are lumped together with other "Mojave" groups and some reside at the Fort Mojave Indian Reservation

Black Californians

Black Californians or Black Mojave were an indigenous group of Amerindians who once occupied parts of California. The enigmatic part of their existence is that they were not of the same racial stock as the typical Amerindian, they were Negro.

They fought the Spaniards, the Mexicans and Anglo-Americans up to the mid 1800's. Many were enslaved and later freed after slavery was abolished. Many others continued fighting and were eventually subdued. Their Descendants melted into the afro populations of the inner cities of southwestern US and Mexico where many continue to resist civilization to this very day. African Presence in Ancient America

 

[westwall]

I think that man (of all races) has been traversing the oceans far longer than scientists and historians give them credit for. There is substantial evidence to support a theory that there was a Celtic colony in the northeast of North America at least 1000 years before Christ. Likewise the Chinese were here long before Columbus, etc.

The trade between Hawaii and the other Polynesian islands is now being documented etc.

Man is a traveler. Has always been a traveler, and will always be a traveler.

 

[Asclepias]

They won the case in 1991 as descendants of of the WIchita / Washtaw but the case doe not lend any credibility to the claims of African Ancestry.

The Black Mojave are an anomaly - they were not of the same racial stock as Native Americans - they appeared to be Black - possibly migrated from the pacific or more likely from further south and descended of Olmec and or Mende stock. But notably African .

See thats what is not making sense. Why are they not recognized by the US like the other Native American tribes are then?

They are, but their gene pool is now mixed with all post-Columbian migrants . They are lumped together with other "Mojave" groups and some reside at the Fort Mojave Indian Reservation

Black Californians

Black Californians or Black Mojave were an indigenous group of Amerindians who once occupied parts of California. The enigmatic part of their existence is that they were not of the same racial stock as the typical Amerindian, they were Negro.

They fought the Spaniards, the Mexicans and Anglo-Americans up to the mid 1800's. Many were enslaved and later freed after slavery was abolished. Many others continued fighting and were eventually subdued. Their Descendants melted into the afro populations of the inner cities of southwestern US and Mexico where many continue to resist civilization to this very day. African Presence in Ancient America

No I meant the Washitaw. Thanks for the link though.

 

[GreenBean]

I think that man (of all races) has been traversing the oceans far longer than scientists and historians give them credit for. There is substantial evidence to support a theory that there was a Celtic colony in the northeast of North America at least 1000 years before Christ. Likewise the Chinese were here long before Columbus, etc.

The trade between Hawaii and the other Polynesian islands is now being documented etc.

Man is a traveler. Has always been a traveler, and will always be a traveler.

Romans in In Ancient America

Ancient Egyptians in America

Did the Irish Discover America

Viking Discovery of America

 

[Meathead]

Seems to me you dingbats are trying to convince each other; you might even succede.

 

[Asclepias]

Seems to me you dingbats are trying to convince each other; you might even succede.

Seems to me it really bothers the hell out of you.

 

[Meathead]

Seems to me you dingbats are trying to convince each other; you might even succede.

Seems to me it really bothers the hell out of you.

It's a bit like watching a train wreck which would bother me, yet is compelling. That even more so when you realize it's is self-inflicted.

 

[Asclepias]

Seems to me you dingbats are trying to convince each other; you might even succede.

Seems to me it really bothers the hell out of you.

It's a bit like watching a train wreck which would bother me, yet is compelling. That even more so when you realize it's is self-inflicted.

Somehow i don't believe you. When your attempts to refute evidence fail and your own evidence is ground in the dust the typical reaction is one of dismay and worry not amusement. Amusement is what I feel every time you get shot down.

 

[Iceman]

I heard Columbus and Shakespeare were Aborigines...

 

[Iceman]

And that Jesus was a black man, or he didn't exist.

 

[Meathead]

Seems to me it really bothers the hell out of you.

It's a bit like watching a train wreck which would bother me, yet is compelling. That even more so when you realize it's is self-inflicted.

Somehow i don't believe you. When your attempts to refute evidence fail and your own evidence is ground in the dust the typical reaction is one of dismay and worry not amusement. Amusement is what I feel every time you get shot down.

I cannot bring myself to refute unbridled idiocy.

It is somewhat akin to asking me to refute this:

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

 

[Meathead]

 

[Asclepias]

I heard Columbus and Shakespeare were Aborigines...

You need to cite something. Never heard of such a claim.

 

[Asclepias]

And that Jesus was a black man, or he didn't exist.

Jesus was either Black or mixed if he existed, which I believe he did. Read your bible. Its as plain as day if you are really interested.

 

[Iceman]

And that Jesus was a black man, or he didn't exist.

Jesus was either Black or mixed if he existed, which I believe he did. Read your bible. Its as plain as day if you are really interested.

Denzel Washington said so in Malcolm X

 

[Asclepias]

It's a bit like watching a train wreck which would bother me, yet is compelling. That even more so when you realize it's is self-inflicted.

Somehow i don't believe you. When your attempts to refute evidence fail and your own evidence is ground in the dust the typical reaction is one of dismay and worry not amusement. Amusement is what I feel every time you get shot down.

I cannot bring myself to refute unbridled idiocy.

It is somewhat akin to asking me to refute this:

I understand intelligence is indecipherable to you. Europeans felt the same way when they first experienced the Egyptian hieroglyphics. Don't sale yourself short. Give it a swing. This should be fun.

 

[Iceman]

I heard Columbus and Shakespeare were Aborigines...

You need to cite something. Never heard of such a claim.

The Nation of Islam told me

 

[Meathead]

Somehow i don't believe you. When your attempts to refute evidence fail and your own evidence is ground in the dust the typical reaction is one of dismay and worry not amusement. Amusement is what I feel every time you get shot down.

I cannot bring myself to refute unbridled idiocy.

It is somewhat akin to asking me to refute this:

I understand intelligence is indecipherable to you. Europeans felt the same way when they first experienced the Egyptian hieroglyphics. Don't sale yourself short. Give it a swing. This should be fun.

Blacks, who had never had a written language and were and are still unfortunately primitive people would never have had the ability to either formulate, much less decipher an ancient language. Like it or not, there are few who believe anywhere in the world that sub-Saharan blacks are anything but the simplest of Gods creatures.

 

[westwall]

Seems to me you dingbats are trying to convince each other; you might even succede.

Convince each other of what? The base of knowledge is constantly being increased. Some people with vested interests will ignore current research and when that happens someone will come along and slap them upside the head. That was certainly the case with the experts views on Hawaii.

This group was founded to show the experts just how wrong they were. These folks have navigated from Tahiti (and other places) to Hawaii without the benefit of navigational aids. Something the experts said could not be done.

Polynesian Voyaging Society

Voyages: 1976-2003

Hokule'a I by Herb Kawainui Kane

The voyages sponsored by the Polynesian Voyaging Society have provided a wealth of information for scientists, anthropologists and archaeologists about traditional Polynesian migrations, documenting one of the greatest achievement of humanity--the exploration and settlement of islands in an area of over 10 million square miles during a period of over 1,000 years.

At the same time, as Hokule'a and Hawai'iloa traveled throughout Polynesia, they inspired among Polynesians an increased awareness and native pride in their seafaring heritage. They also sparked a revival of canoe building and sailing, arts that had not been practiced in over a hundred years. Hokule`a, the first modern replica of a voyaging canoe to make the voyage from Hawai'i to Tahiti and back, became a symbol of the richness of Polynesian culture and the seafaring heritage which links together all of the peoples of the Pacific.


2003: Voyage to Northwestern Hawaiian Islands: Click on top links on the navigation bar on the left for current information.

1999-2000: Voyage to Rapa Nui: Hokule'a reached the far southeastern corner of Polynesia, completing its modern exploration of the Polynesian Triangle.


Summer 1995: Hokule'a's West Coast Tour / Hawai'iloa's Northwest Tour: In the summer of 1995, the voyaging canoesHokule'a and Hawai'iloa were shipped to Seattle; Hokule'a travelled down the West Coast to San Diego to share the mana of the canoe with Hawaiians, native Americans, and other Americans living there. Hawai'iloa, meanwhile, went from Seattle to Juneau Alaska to visit the land of the Tlingit, Haida, and Tshimshian, who donated the logs for its hulls.


Spring 1995: Na 'Ohana Holo Moana/The Voyaging Family of the Vast Ocean: the voyaging canoes Hokule'a, Hawai'iloa, and Makali'i sailed from Hawai'i to the Marquesas and back via Tahiti and Ra'iatea. Early settlers to Hawai'i are believed to have come from the Marquesas because of the similarities of the Hawaiian and Marquesan languages.


1992: No Na Mamo/For the Children: Hokule'a sailed from Hawai'i to Rarotoga and back via Tahiti and Ra'iatea. In Rarotonga, the canoe participated in the Sixth Pacific Arts Festival celebrating the revival of traditional canoe building and navigation in the Pacific. Called "The Voyage for Education," this voyage incorporated an educational program that allowed students to follow the canoe on its journey through live, daily radio reports.


1985-87: The Voyage of Rediscovery: took Hokule'a on a 16,000 mile journey along the ancient migratory routes of the Polynesian Triangle--from Hawai`i to the Society Islands, the Cook Islands, New Zealand, Tonga, Samoa, and back home via Aitutaki, Tahiti, and Rangiroa in the Tuamotu Archipelago. This voyage showed that it was possible for Polynesian canoes to sail from west to east in the Pacific when the prevailing easterly tradewinds were replaced by seasonal westerlies.


1980: Hawai`i to Tahiti and Back: Nainoa Thompson, who studied under Satawalese navigator Mau Piailug (see "1976: Hawai'i to Tahiti and Back" below), became the first Hawaiian navigator in over 500 years to guide a canoe over this traditional route without instruments.


1978: Voyage to Tahiti Cancelled After Canoe Swamping In 1978, a voyage to Tahiti was cancelled because Hokule'a swamped south of Moloka'i in heavy seas; crew member Eddie Aikau, who attempted to paddle on a surfboard to get help on land, was lost at sea.


1976: Hawai`i to Tahiti and Back; Satawelese navigator Mau Piailug,with a Hawaiian crew, guided Hokule'a without instruments to Tahiti, a distance of 2400 miles. Piailug was called upon to navigate because no Hawaiian knew the ancient art of guiding canoes by the celestial bodies and ocean swells.