All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss

[Coyote]

Here is something anti-Israelers don’t discuss and I am surprised they don’t. Rather than the hyperbole of non existent genocide and Gaza concentration camps how about focusing on the real injustices?

The people who live in Area C are under two different systems of justice. That means if you are a Palestinian you are tried under the military court system. If you are Israeli you are tried in the civil system despite the fact you are not in Israel.. Guess which one has far more rights, especially for minors?

Do West Bank Israelis, Palestinians live under different set of laws?

 

[flacaltenn]

Here is something anti-Israelers don’t discuss and I am surprised they don’t. Rather than the hyperbole of non existent genocide and Gaza concentration camps how about focusing on the real injustices?

The people who live in Area C are under two different systems of justice. That means if you are a Palestinian you are tried under the military court system. If you are Israeli you are tried in the civil system despite the fact you are not in Israel.. Guess which one has far more rights, especially for minors?

Do West Bank Israelis, Palestinians live under different set of laws?

How many Palestinians WANT to live under Israeli law and jurisdiction? Answer is -- a small minority. So why is it an issue? Can't force them to accept Israeli sovereignty or law so work to get them WHAT THEY WANT. Which is autonomy of SOME form with their own security and justice.

Seems a waste of time to call this apartheid or bias when it's really not..
Need to SUPPORT solutions to getting some autonomy for the Palis both within Israel and in the WORSE conditions elsewhere.

 

[Shusha]

The people who live in Area C are under two different systems of justice. That means if you are a Palestinian you are tried under the military court system. If you are Israeli you are tried in the civil system despite the fact you are not in Israel..

That is because a State can not compel non-citizens to its own laws. A State can't force its own laws upon non-citizens. (That would be an egregious breech of human rights, wouldn't you agree?!)

In Area C, Israeli citizens can avail themselves of the protection of the State of Israel as Israeli citizens and are compelled to follow Israeli law. Citizens of Palestine are under a complex set of laws including: Palestinian law, Jordanian law, pre-existing Ottoman law and military law of the State legally in control of the territory for concerns of security and safety according to treaties. In other words, Israeli citizens are governed by Israeli law and Palestinian citizens are governed by Palestinian/Jordanian/Ottoman law and security under military law.

But somehow, in your rush to demonize Israel, you not only ignore current norms of international law, you attempt to suggest that Israel is somehow to be vilified for following this norm.

Yeah, there are two different systems of justice in Area C -- because there are two different groups of citizens in Area C. It would be wrong to impose one system on both peoples.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The people who live in Area C are under two different systems of justice. That means if you are a Palestinian you are tried under the military court system. If you are Israeli you are tried in the civil system despite the fact you are not in Israel..

That is because a State can not compel non-citizens to its own laws. A State can't force its own laws upon non-citizens. (That would be an egregious breech of human rights, wouldn't you agree?!)

In Area C, Israeli citizens can avail themselves of the protection of the State of Israel as Israeli citizens and are compelled to follow Israeli law. Citizens of Palestine are under a complex set of laws including: Palestinian law, Jordanian law, pre-existing Ottoman law and military law of the State legally in control of the territory for concerns of security and safety according to treaties. In other words, Israeli citizens are governed by Israeli law and Palestinian citizens are governed by Palestinian/Jordanian/Ottoman law and security under military law.

But somehow, in your rush to demonize Israel, you not only ignore current norms of international law, you attempt to suggest that Israel is somehow to be vilified for following this norm.

Yeah, there are two different systems of justice in Area C -- because there are two different groups of citizens in Area C. It would be wrong to impose one system on both peoples.

In other words, Israeli citizens are governed by Israeli law and Palestinian citizens are governed by Palestinian/Jordanian/Ottoman law and security under military law.

Israel is a law free zone. It is the wild west of the Middle East. An occupying power should enforce local (Palestinian) law.

Settlers destroy and steal property. They assault or kill Palestinians. Is this legal under Israeli or Palestinian law? I don't think so. Israeli forces stand around and watch while PA forces are forbidden to act.

Israel enforces its own law over the Palestinian law even in area A. All political parties in Palestine (Fatah, Hamas, PFLP, etc.) are constitutionally protected. Yet Israel will go into Area A and kidnap people for nothing more than party affiliation.

Law in Israel, even international law, is meaningless.

 

[Hollie]

The people who live in Area C are under two different systems of justice. That means if you are a Palestinian you are tried under the military court system. If you are Israeli you are tried in the civil system despite the fact you are not in Israel..

That is because a State can not compel non-citizens to its own laws. A State can't force its own laws upon non-citizens. (That would be an egregious breech of human rights, wouldn't you agree?!)

In Area C, Israeli citizens can avail themselves of the protection of the State of Israel as Israeli citizens and are compelled to follow Israeli law. Citizens of Palestine are under a complex set of laws including: Palestinian law, Jordanian law, pre-existing Ottoman law and military law of the State legally in control of the territory for concerns of security and safety according to treaties. In other words, Israeli citizens are governed by Israeli law and Palestinian citizens are governed by Palestinian/Jordanian/Ottoman law and security under military law.

But somehow, in your rush to demonize Israel, you not only ignore current norms of international law, you attempt to suggest that Israel is somehow to be vilified for following this norm.

Yeah, there are two different systems of justice in Area C -- because there are two different groups of citizens in Area C. It would be wrong to impose one system on both peoples.

In other words, Israeli citizens are governed by Israeli law and Palestinian citizens are governed by Palestinian/Jordanian/Ottoman law and security under military law.

Israel is a law free zone. It is the wild west of the Middle East. An occupying power should enforce local (Palestinian) law.

Settlers destroy and steal property. They assault or kill Palestinians. Is this legal under Israeli or Palestinian law? I don't think so. Israeli forces stand around and watch while PA forces are forbidden to act.

Israel enforces its own law over the Palestinian law even in area A. All political parties in Palestine (Fatah, Hamas, PFLP, etc.) are constitutionally protected. Yet Israel will go into Area A and kidnap people for nothing more than party affiliation.

Law in Israel, even international law, is meaningless.

Why should Israel be tasked with law enforcement in the
“country of Pal’istan”

 

[P F Tinmore]

The people who live in Area C are under two different systems of justice. That means if you are a Palestinian you are tried under the military court system. If you are Israeli you are tried in the civil system despite the fact you are not in Israel..

That is because a State can not compel non-citizens to its own laws. A State can't force its own laws upon non-citizens. (That would be an egregious breech of human rights, wouldn't you agree?!)

In Area C, Israeli citizens can avail themselves of the protection of the State of Israel as Israeli citizens and are compelled to follow Israeli law. Citizens of Palestine are under a complex set of laws including: Palestinian law, Jordanian law, pre-existing Ottoman law and military law of the State legally in control of the territory for concerns of security and safety according to treaties. In other words, Israeli citizens are governed by Israeli law and Palestinian citizens are governed by Palestinian/Jordanian/Ottoman law and security under military law.

But somehow, in your rush to demonize Israel, you not only ignore current norms of international law, you attempt to suggest that Israel is somehow to be vilified for following this norm.

Yeah, there are two different systems of justice in Area C -- because there are two different groups of citizens in Area C. It would be wrong to impose one system on both peoples.

In other words, Israeli citizens are governed by Israeli law and Palestinian citizens are governed by Palestinian/Jordanian/Ottoman law and security under military law.

Israel is a law free zone. It is the wild west of the Middle East. An occupying power should enforce local (Palestinian) law.

Settlers destroy and steal property. They assault or kill Palestinians. Is this legal under Israeli or Palestinian law? I don't think so. Israeli forces stand around and watch while PA forces are forbidden to act.

Israel enforces its own law over the Palestinian law even in area A. All political parties in Palestine (Fatah, Hamas, PFLP, etc.) are constitutionally protected. Yet Israel will go into Area A and kidnap people for nothing more than party affiliation.

Law in Israel, even international law, is meaningless.

Why should Israel be tasked with law enforcement in the
“country of Pal’istan”

Those are the rules of occupation. Occupations are requires to provide security and order in occupied territories.

 

[Hollie]

The people who live in Area C are under two different systems of justice. That means if you are a Palestinian you are tried under the military court system. If you are Israeli you are tried in the civil system despite the fact you are not in Israel..

That is because a State can not compel non-citizens to its own laws. A State can't force its own laws upon non-citizens. (That would be an egregious breech of human rights, wouldn't you agree?!)

In Area C, Israeli citizens can avail themselves of the protection of the State of Israel as Israeli citizens and are compelled to follow Israeli law. Citizens of Palestine are under a complex set of laws including: Palestinian law, Jordanian law, pre-existing Ottoman law and military law of the State legally in control of the territory for concerns of security and safety according to treaties. In other words, Israeli citizens are governed by Israeli law and Palestinian citizens are governed by Palestinian/Jordanian/Ottoman law and security under military law.

But somehow, in your rush to demonize Israel, you not only ignore current norms of international law, you attempt to suggest that Israel is somehow to be vilified for following this norm.

Yeah, there are two different systems of justice in Area C -- because there are two different groups of citizens in Area C. It would be wrong to impose one system on both peoples.

In other words, Israeli citizens are governed by Israeli law and Palestinian citizens are governed by Palestinian/Jordanian/Ottoman law and security under military law.

Israel is a law free zone. It is the wild west of the Middle East. An occupying power should enforce local (Palestinian) law.

Settlers destroy and steal property. They assault or kill Palestinians. Is this legal under Israeli or Palestinian law? I don't think so. Israeli forces stand around and watch while PA forces are forbidden to act.

Israel enforces its own law over the Palestinian law even in area A. All political parties in Palestine (Fatah, Hamas, PFLP, etc.) are constitutionally protected. Yet Israel will go into Area A and kidnap people for nothing more than party affiliation.

Law in Israel, even international law, is meaningless.

Why should Israel be tasked with law enforcement in the
“country of Pal’istan”

Those are the rules of occupation. Occupations are requires to provide security and order in occupied territories.

Gaza is not occupied.

What National territory is israel occupying?

 

[RoccoR]

RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ Hollie, P F Tinmore, et al,

I love it when they misquote the law. Occupation Law does not "REQUIRE" security and order in occupied territories.

Those are the rules of occupation. Occupations are requires to provide security and order in occupied territories.

Gaza is not occupied.

What National territory is Israel occupying?

(COMMENT)

This belief is really a logical fallacy.

The authority of the legitimate power having in fact passed into the hands of the occupant, the latter shall take all the measures in his power to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety, while respecting, unless absolutely prevented, the laws in force in the country.
SOURCE: Convention (IV) respecting the Laws and Customs of War on Land and its annex: Regulations concerning the Laws and Customs of War on Land. The Hague, 18 October 1907.

(COMMENT)

There is no minimum established criteria except "as far as possible." When the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) intentionally sabotage their public order and safety, that is no them. They call that poisoning the well.

By using this fallacy, the HoAP are trying to preemptive launch an ad hominem attack against Israeli Security Forces that are trying to restore public order and safety (as far as possible for them without the cooperation of the HoAP) that have openly declared that is within their right to intentionally target and kill civilian Israelis; in fact it is encouraged by the Palestinian Authority which pays a bounty (murder for financial gain). The HoAP set the conditions for you (the audience) by presenting what appears to be valid criteria. THEN the HoAP set out to prove that the invalid and adverse information (there is no public order and safety) from the start, discounts the credible effort by the Israelis. Presenting the condition as a failure on the part of Israel and not the belligerent and criminal behaviors of the HoAP themselves as the cause.

As long as the Israelis attempt to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety; they have met the standard. Criminal behaviors, punishable under Article 68 of the GCIV, are a crime against their own society.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ Hollie, P F Tinmore, et al,

I love it when they misquote the law. Occupation Law does not "REQUIRE" security and order in occupied territories.

Those are the rules of occupation. Occupations are requires to provide security and order in occupied territories.

Gaza is not occupied.

What National territory is Israel occupying?

(COMMENT)

This belief is really a logical fallacy.

The authority of the legitimate power having in fact passed into the hands of the occupant, the latter shall take all the measures in his power to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety, while respecting, unless absolutely prevented, the laws in force in the country.
SOURCE: Convention (IV) respecting the Laws and Customs of War on Land and its annex: Regulations concerning the Laws and Customs of War on Land. The Hague, 18 October 1907.

(COMMENT)

There is no minimum established criteria except "as far as possible." When the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) intentionally sabotage their public order and safety, that is no them. They call that poisoning the well.

By using this fallacy, the HoAP are trying to preemptive launch an ad hominem attack against Israeli Security Forces that are trying to restore public order and safety (as far as possible for them without the cooperation of the HoAP) that have openly declared that is within their right to intentionally target and kill civilian Israelis; in fact it is encouraged by the Palestinian Authority which pays a bounty (murder for financial gain). The HoAP set the conditions for you (the audience) by presenting what appears to be valid criteria. THEN the HoAP set out to prove that the invalid and adverse information (there is no public order and safety) from the start, discounts the credible effort by the Israelis. Presenting the condition as a failure on the part of Israel and not the belligerent and criminal behaviors of the HoAP themselves as the cause.

As long as the Israelis attempt to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety; they have met the standard. Criminal behaviors, punishable under Article 68 of the GCIV, are a crime against their own society.

Most Respectfully,
R

As long as the Israelis attempt to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety;

Destroying and/or stealing property. Assaulting and/or killing unarmed civilians. Is that what you call public order and safety?

 

[RoccoR]

RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ Coyote, et al,

I've seen this argument many times. And I've tried to explain it to the best of my ability, as a layman.

Here is something anti-Israelis don’t discuss and I am surprised they don’t. Rather than the hyperbole of non existent genocide and Gaza concentration camps how about focusing on the real injustices?

The people who live in Area C are under two different systems of justice. That means if you are a Palestinian you are tried under the military court system. If you are Israeli you are tried in the civil system despite the fact you are not in Israel.. Guess which one has far more rights, especially for minors?

Do West Bank Israelis, Palestinians live under different set of laws?

(COMMENT)

The nature of the judicial system in the territories is a product of the Customary and IHL. It is established by a number of International and domestic codes. It is not done that way by the Israelis to complicate the system. The most common codes are found in the Fourth Geneva Convention:

​

The most common of these are violated by people like that (HoAP teen activist) Ahed Tamimi who assaulted an Israeli Police Officer. That is a crime punishable under Article 68 (Protected persons who commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power). She was not punished twice under a separate system. This is not unlike our system of justice. If you rob a bank, you can be tried once by the USDOJ for the monetary loss to the FDIC (that is how the FBI gets involved). After the federal prosecutors are done with you, the State Prosecutor can execute proceeding under the State law against Bank Robbery. It is not double jeopardy, because it is two different jurisdiction. (Layman's explanation). We have very similar systems from that narrow aspect.

This argument appears and reappears periodically. It tries to present the idea that the Israelis are doing something unnaturally wrong (misfeasance and malfeasance) when it is really not.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I ask this every time. What law under Area "C" are you claiming is being violated. Don't give me these nice sound-bites. Give me a specific.

I'm an old man and my capacity is very much deminished.

v/r
R

I love it when they misquote the law. Occupation Law does not "REQUIRE" security and order in occupied territories.

Those are the rules of occupation. Occupations are requires to provide security and order in occupied territories.

Gaza is not occupied.

What National territory is Israel occupying?

(COMMENT)

This belief is really a logical fallacy.

The authority of the legitimate power having in fact passed into the hands of the occupant, the latter shall take all the measures in his power to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety, while respecting, unless absolutely prevented, the laws in force in the country.
SOURCE: Convention (IV) respecting the Laws and Customs of War on Land and its annex: Regulations concerning the Laws and Customs of War on Land. The Hague, 18 October 1907.

(COMMENT)

There is no minimum established criteria except "as far as possible." When the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) intentionally sabotage their public order and safety, that is no them. They call that poisoning the well.

By using this fallacy, the HoAP are trying to preemptive launch an ad hominem attack against Israeli Security Forces that are trying to restore public order and safety (as far as possible for them without the cooperation of the HoAP) that have openly declared that is within their right to intentionally target and kill civilian Israelis; in fact it is encouraged by the Palestinian Authority which pays a bounty (murder for financial gain). The HoAP set the conditions for you (the audience) by presenting what appears to be valid criteria. THEN the HoAP set out to prove that the invalid and adverse information (there is no public order and safety) from the start, discounts the credible effort by the Israelis. Presenting the condition as a failure on the part of Israel and not the belligerent and criminal behaviors of the HoAP themselves as the cause.

As long as the Israelis attempt to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety; they have met the standard. Criminal behaviors, punishable under Article 68 of the GCIV, are a crime against their own society.

Most Respectfully,
R

As long as the Israelis attempt to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety;

Destroying and/or stealing property. Assaulting and/or killing unarmed civilians. Is that what you call public order and safety?

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ Coyote, et al,

I've seen this argument many times. And I've tried to explain it to the best of my ability, as a layman.

Here is something anti-Israelis don’t discuss and I am surprised they don’t. Rather than the hyperbole of non existent genocide and Gaza concentration camps how about focusing on the real injustices?

The people who live in Area C are under two different systems of justice. That means if you are a Palestinian you are tried under the military court system. If you are Israeli you are tried in the civil system despite the fact you are not in Israel.. Guess which one has far more rights, especially for minors?

Do West Bank Israelis, Palestinians live under different set of laws?

(COMMENT)

The nature of the judicial system in the territories is a product of the Customary and IHL. It is established by a number of International and domestic codes. It is not done that way by the Israelis to complicate the system. The most common codes are found in the Fourth Geneva Convention:

View attachment 234781
​

The most common of these are violated by people like that (HoAP teen activist) Ahed Tamimi who assaulted an Israeli Police Officer. That is a crime punishable under Article 68 (Protected persons who commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power). She was not punished twice under a separate system. This is not unlike our system of justice. If you rob a bank, you can be tried once by the USDOJ for the monetary loss to the FDIC (that is how the FBI gets involved). After the federal prosecutors are done with you, the State Prosecutor can execute proceeding under the State law against Bank Robbery. It is not double jeopardy, because it is two different jurisdiction. (Layman's explanation). We have very similar

This argument appears and reappears periodically. It tries to present the idea that the Israelis are doing something unnaturally wrong (misfeasance and malfeasance) when it is really not.

Most Respectfully,
R

The most common of these are violated by people like that (HoAP teen activist) Ahed Tamimi who assaulted an Israeli Police Officer.

But shooting her cousin in the face is just an oh well.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I ask this every time. What law under Area "C" are you claiming is being violated. Don't give me these nice sound-bites. Give me a specific.

I'm an old man and my capacity is very much deminished.

v/r
R

I love it when they misquote the law. Occupation Law does not "REQUIRE" security and order in occupied territories.

Those are the rules of occupation. Occupations are requires to provide security and order in occupied territories.

Gaza is not occupied.

What National territory is Israel occupying?

(COMMENT)

This belief is really a logical fallacy.

The authority of the legitimate power having in fact passed into the hands of the occupant, the latter shall take all the measures in his power to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety, while respecting, unless absolutely prevented, the laws in force in the country.
SOURCE: Convention (IV) respecting the Laws and Customs of War on Land and its annex: Regulations concerning the Laws and Customs of War on Land. The Hague, 18 October 1907.

(COMMENT)

There is no minimum established criteria except "as far as possible." When the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) intentionally sabotage their public order and safety, that is no them. They call that poisoning the well.

By using this fallacy, the HoAP are trying to preemptive launch an ad hominem attack against Israeli Security Forces that are trying to restore public order and safety (as far as possible for them without the cooperation of the HoAP) that have openly declared that is within their right to intentionally target and kill civilian Israelis; in fact it is encouraged by the Palestinian Authority which pays a bounty (murder for financial gain). The HoAP set the conditions for you (the audience) by presenting what appears to be valid criteria. THEN the HoAP set out to prove that the invalid and adverse information (there is no public order and safety) from the start, discounts the credible effort by the Israelis. Presenting the condition as a failure on the part of Israel and not the belligerent and criminal behaviors of the HoAP themselves as the cause.

As long as the Israelis attempt to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety; they have met the standard. Criminal behaviors, punishable under Article 68 of the GCIV, are a crime against their own society.

Most Respectfully,
R

As long as the Israelis attempt to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety;

Destroying and/or stealing property. Assaulting and/or killing unarmed civilians. Is that what you call public order and safety?

You are ducking my question. What I posted is illegal activity.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Yeah, that is something different.

The most common of these are violated by people like that (HoAP teen activist) Ahed Tamimi who assaulted an Israeli Police Officer.

But shooting her cousin in the face is just an oh well.

(COMMENT)

If the family of Ahed Tamimi believe that the Israeli Border Police used excessive force, charges can be filed:

• Civil Charges for monetary remidey.
• Criminal charges if you can show misfeasance, non-feasance or malfeasance.​

It is not like they even tried to exercise the legal system. You notice that they never bring that up. That lead me to be suspicious that the Tamimi family members were in the wrong. But it will probably never get investigated now, if they don't make the system work.

The Tamimi family seem to be composed mostly of alley urchin and street brawlers. They mask that very well by labeling themselves "activist."

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I cannot possibly answer the question without knowing the particulars.

As long as the Israelis attempt to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety;

Destroying and/or stealing property. Assaulting and/or killing unarmed civilians. Is that what you call public order and safety?
You are ducking my question. What I posted is illegal activity.

(COMMENT)

But I always ask, what makes what they did "illegal?" What you call "stealing or theft" may not be that at all. What are the elements to the offense? Are they operating under civil authority - Area C, which contains the Israeli settlements, and is fully administered by Israel?

I try not to throw accusations around if you do not know the code.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Yeah, that is something different.

The most common of these are violated by people like that (HoAP teen activist) Ahed Tamimi who assaulted an Israeli Police Officer.

But shooting her cousin in the face is just an oh well.

(COMMENT)

If the family of Ahed Tamimi believe that the Israeli Border Police used excessive force, charges can be filed:

• Civil Charges for monetary remidey.
• Criminal charges if you can show misfeasance, non-feasance or malfeasance.​

It is not like they even tried to exercise the legal system. You notice that they never bring that up. That lead me to be suspicious that the Tamimi family members were in the wrong. But it will probably never get investigated now, if they don't make the system work.

The Tamimi family seem to be composed mostly of alley urchin and street brawlers. They mask that very well by labeling themselves "activist."

Most Respectfully,
R

If the family of Ahed Tamimi believe that the Israeli Border Police used excessive force, charges can be filed:

You're joking, right?

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I cannot possibly answer the question without knowing the particulars.

As long as the Israelis attempt to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety;

Destroying and/or stealing property. Assaulting and/or killing unarmed civilians. Is that what you call public order and safety?
You are ducking my question. What I posted is illegal activity.

(COMMENT)

But I always ask, what makes what they did "illegal?" What you call "stealing or theft" may not be that at all. What are the elements to the offense? Are they operating under civil authority - Area C, which contains the Israeli settlements, and is fully administered by Israel?

I try not to throw accusations around if you do not know the code.

Most Respectfully,
R

But I always ask, what makes what they did "illegal?"

Look it up. Rules if occupation.

 

[Coyote]

RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ Coyote, et al,

I've seen this argument many times. And I've tried to explain it to the best of my ability, as a layman.

Here is something anti-Israelis don’t discuss and I am surprised they don’t. Rather than the hyperbole of non existent genocide and Gaza concentration camps how about focusing on the real injustices?

The people who live in Area C are under two different systems of justice. That means if you are a Palestinian you are tried under the military court system. If you are Israeli you are tried in the civil system despite the fact you are not in Israel.. Guess which one has far more rights, especially for minors?

Do West Bank Israelis, Palestinians live under different set of laws?

(COMMENT)

The nature of the judicial system in the territories is a product of the Customary and IHL. It is established by a number of International and domestic codes. It is not done that way by the Israelis to complicate the system. The most common codes are found in the Fourth Geneva Convention:

View attachment 234781
​

The most common of these are violated by people like that (HoAP teen activist) Ahed Tamimi who assaulted an Israeli Police Officer. That is a crime punishable under Article 68 (Protected persons who commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power). She was not punished twice under a separate system. This is not unlike our system of justice. If you rob a bank, you can be tried once by the USDOJ for the monetary loss to the FDIC (that is how the FBI gets involved). After the federal prosecutors are done with you, the State Prosecutor can execute proceeding under the State law against Bank Robbery. It is not double jeopardy, because it is two different jurisdiction. (Layman's explanation). We have very similar systems from that narrow aspect.

This argument appears and reappears periodically. It tries to present the idea that the Israelis are doing something unnaturally wrong (misfeasance and malfeasance) when it is really not.

Most Respectfully,
R

Rocco...that is not what I mean. I am not talking double jeopardy. What I mean is that there are two systems in one territory, governed but not officially part of one state. Area C.

The people that live there are prosecuted differently depending on their nationality...or ethnicity. If they are Palestinians, they are prosecuted under the military system. If they are Israeli they are prosecuted under the military system.

You and I both know that the military system has far fewer rights than the civil system and this particularly has repercussions on minors. A 16 yr old is tried as an adult in the military system. In the civil system he is still a child. The repercussions of this are huge. A child can be taken from their homes in the middle of the night, does not have the right to have parents or guardians with him and, often are detained in areas where parents are not permitted to travel. Unlike the Israeli child, the military system detains them until all proceedings are complete..which could be months while in the civil system, they usually are released to the families as the case is adjudicated. This results, many times, in the defendant agreeing to a plea deal regardless of guilt just to get back with his family.

One piece of land. Two different legal systems that, de facto, end up treating two different ethnic groups very differently.

How is that defensible? Do you see how this can drive some of the rage against Israel?

Everyone should be under the same system, military or civil.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

We are discussing international terrorists not domestic ones. IDC if Iraqui terrorists blow up cafes is Iraq. Americans don't blow up stuff overseas do they? Every country has domestic criminals the difference is, Islamists take their trade overseas. But you already knew what I meant, you just decided to give me your coy standard Coyote Leftist response. Thank you for that.

Terrorosm is usually the tactic of weak non state actors. States have other ways of asserting their wills. You wont fond American terrorists per se but I am sure you will find covert activities and of vourse wars like Iraq.

Your comment that “Terrorosm is usually the tactic of weak non state actors.” is just nonsense.

We can counter that argument with references to Hezbollah and Hamas; both being Iranian funded Islamic terrorist organizations.

The Richest Terror Organizations in the World

Hamas second-richest terror group in world, Forbes says


Fortunately, those with their eyes open realized in the 21st century that state support for terrorism is the core of continuing Islamic terrorism. Arresting or killing terrorists? Sure, it is effective in that it slows them down. It gives us a sense of vengeance. It makes us feel good. But if anyone thinks that killing off some of the gee-had superstars and doing nothing else will solve our global Islamic terrorism problems, they’re missing the point.

Cutting off the sources of financing, materials, safe haven, and intelligence is the ONLY way to stop the tide of Islamic terrorism.

Eighty percent of the mosques here in America are Saudi-built and funded (https://nypost.com/2016/04/16/how-saudi-arabia-undermines-the-united-states/) and receive their virulently antisemitic and anti-American Friday sermons directly from Mecca. They fund libraries and projects at universities around our nation: chairs of Islamic studies--sinecures for smiling vipers who live among us as they hope to chip another flake off the bedrock of democracy. At home, they pay off the imams to keep the charade alive a little bit longer, so they can squeeze some more blood out of the Earth before they pile into their private jets to escape with a bag of money and a mob of Kalashnikov-firing holy warriors hot on their heels when the rotted edifice finally comes crashing down.

Below is the link to the US State Department list of foreign terrorist organizations. I think you will find that there is a common theme that binds the vast majority of the listed terrorist syndicates. Can you describe for us what that theme is?

Foreign Terrorist Organizations

Two things stand out. They are not states. They are weak in comparison to the conventional and legal forces a state can marshal. That is why it is so effective for individuals and non state actors. You have states funding terrorist non state actors...but keep in mind states fund a lot of covert, destabilizing and even terrorist groups (renamed freedom fighters) to further their own state interests. The US has done this.

While I agree that neither Hezbollah nor Hamas are “states”, that dismisses the fact that both receive funding and weapons from Iran, a state sponsor of Islamic terrorism.

Let’s also understand that statehood is not necessarily a requirement to measure the level of death and destruction that a non-state Islamic terrorist franchise might deliver.


https://www.sun-sentinel.com/florida-jewish-journal/fl-jj-report-hezbollah-firepower-20181121-story.html

Report: Hezbollah has more firepower than 95 percent of world's conventional militaries


Its important to remember that Iran has a nascent “nukular” program and the planet becomes a vastly more dangerous place with Islamic loons in control of weapons grade material.


A central theme on the part of the Iranian mullocracy, (and Hamas), is world-class whining about the mere existence of Jews and Israel.


Putting nuclear weapons in the hands of religious zealots is just simply an inherently dangerous exercise. The Middle East is already a highly unstable area. The vicious Iran vs. Iraq war in the not too distant past tells us about the motivations of the Iranian Mullocrats. Just imagine if Iran and Iraq had access to nukes. The prospect is absolutely chilling. Iran and Iraq during their 8 year long slugfest managed to do substantial damage and cause phenomenal loss of life. It’s likely that only the lack of “better” technology stopped them from obliterating entire cities and populations in the course of a single afternoon. Does anyone really believe the Iran vs. Iraq war would not have rivaled the death tally of Stalin or Mao if they had the ability to slaughter on a grander scale? Remember, Holocausts and mass murder work best if you can complete them quickly.



Iranian Weapons of Mass Destruction

“The foundation of the Islamic regime is opposition to Israel and the perpetual subject of Iran is the elimination of Israel from the region . Palestine is Islamic land that was conquered by an anti-Islamic enemy, and according to Islam, one must oppose the Zionist regime. The support for the Palestinians is a religious decree.”...

It doesn’t matter if they receive funding. They are not state actors but independent militias.

Are the Navy Seals an independent militia? If your answer is yes then sure if no then Hamas and all those other groups are not either.

 

[Billo_Really]

The source is the UN? Are you sure?
Because the link leads to this:

Prepared for, and under the guidance of,
the Committee on the Exercise of the Inalienable Rights
of the Palestinian People

The Origins and Evolution of the Palestine Problem Part I: 1917-1947 - Study (30 June 1978)

Unispal is a Palestinian Site.

Everything in it is pro Palestinian and anti Israel.

Now, did the UN actually say what you posted above the link?

You're such a fuckin' liar!

UNISPAL is a division of the UN and as such, it is non-partisan and non-biased.

The United Nations Information System on the Question of Palestine (UNISPAL) is an online collection of texts of current and historical United Nations decisions and publications concerning the question of Palestine, the Israeli–Palestinian conflict and other issues related to the Middle East situation.​

You always feel like you have to post garbage and bullshit. And as I have to keep reminding your "bad-China-air-brain", ad hominems are not valid rebuttals.