An Honest Conversation about Race

[ima]

Absolutely. In a system, devised by whites, who sought to maintain control and dominance, by instituting Jim Crow, following slavery, designed to repress, oppress, indoctrinate, demonize and discriminate against blacks....setting them up "to fail", wallow in poverty, be menially employed and denied the American Dream.....until the Civil Rights Movement, "kick-started" change.

The Irish came after the Negros and we had an Irish president 50 years before we even had a half negro one.

And? Since when was being Irish designated as an ethnicity? And when the Irish arrived, under what conditions did they arrive? Captives or newly welcomed immigrants free to pursue the American Dream?

Ok, I'll give you that negros were worse off when they came, but today's negros start life with the same opportunities as everyone else. My ancestors were serfs back in the old country but I don't carry a massive chip on my shoulder because of it and blame any problems on that. I don't even feel ANY animosity to their oppressors' descendants. It's ancient history and it didn't even happen to me.

As for the discussion about the words "African American", that's why I use the term "negro", it's much more elegant.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Where do I start:

Lone, I can't name any traditions that have been taken from blacks because I never said any HAS been taken. If you find where I said that you win...if not, you lose.

Blacks want to be blacks means you having a problem with black traditions mean shit and whining about blacks not wanting to assimilate (drop their traditions, name or culture) means nothing. We will be who we are regardless of how YOU feel about it. It's curious that line about assimilating isn't leveled at any other group.

I posted an example of how differing unfair laws can affect the black community. I notice you cannot refute it so you change the subject to crack pipes. Ppl who sell typically don't use but you had to change the subject some way. So what I said is true unless you want to refute it

Crack was put in the black communities by Reagan. The reason it's still there is the fault of drug addicts just like with white Ppl.

And since you have no experience with the black community, you pretending to know "the biggest" problem in our community is laughable. You can't refute a word I say, you just change the topic.

Do you contradict yourself often?

First you say that no traditions are being denied to blacks then you say whites want you to drop your traditions.

What traditions do whites want you to drop?

It's a simple question.

And you did say this, "They have no problem with the traditions of Italians, Jews, Irish etc...but blacks need to cut that shit out", implying that somehow black traditions are being threatened.

I don't recall you posting any law that was unfair to blacks. I did see you post the fact that blacks get caught and convicted for crack cocaine more often than whites. You feel it's unfair. I feel it's because blacks get caught at a higher rate and it could be because they deal in crack more than whites.

So please list the laws you deem unfair to blacks.

Crack was put in the community by Reagan? You have to prove that asinine claim.

One doesn't have to be from the ghetto to understand the problems in the ghetto. Some of us are intelligent enough to look at the evidence and draw a conclusion.

All you have is "blame whitey".

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Ahh changing the topic are we? Committing crimes, having babies and being unemployed have shit to do with you ONLY disliking hyphens when Minorities use it.

Try again sparkey...Lemme guess, you don't have a problem with "hyphenated americans" anymore.

I'm changing nothing.

I ask you a question which you cannot answer.

And then I explained why I'm not complaining about the other hyphenated Americans.

And yes, that is some of the problems I see within the black community.

You don't see the problem?

Are you another apologist like your buddy Poet?

Dear CC and LL: What I learned from a workshop in mediation, is that different cultures tended to represent and communicate/negotiate differently. For example, people from a European/patrilineal type culture tended sign things in writing and not rely on word-of-mouth agreements; and tended to put a focus on individual will, ownership and responsibility. While people from either Asian, Latino, or African communities tended to make decisions "holistically" in relation to other issues and people not always directly related to the matter at hand, and to put the "collective" family/community identity BEFORE the individual. So this affects what people need in order to exercise equal representation, whether you rely on individual or collective identity to invoke authority.

So the mediators had to work around this, so people from different backgrounds wouldn't miscommunicate by sending the wrong signals because of how they represented or expressed their interests in the process of negotiation and decisionmaking.

It is important for people to form social groups by cultural, religious and political interests in order to organize resources and assistance around their concerns and programs.

Instead of competing to dominate or defend one group's priorities and issues over others,
we should use these networks for people to move toward more direct representation and self-governance. Since parties and civic/cultural associations already elect their own leaders democratically, or split and form their own groups if they disagree, it isn't that hard to use these existing structures to organize communities locally and nationwide to resolve their own issues their own ways, using their own resources and leaders, and not push that on others.

With the political and cultural diversity in America, I believe we are heading in this direction.
The more we localize responsibility, we will take that burden off govt and let people represent themselves and fund the policies consistent with their views and beliefs, instead of abusing govt and political process to impose agenda on others by bullying by coercion or exclusion. We need to respect political/cultural differences as we do religious beliefs, and let people form and fund their own groups and programs without imposing on others' views.

So are you suggesting crime, abortion and fatherless homes is a cultural thing?

 

[squeeze berry]

See, when facts are presented squeeze changes the subject from unjust prison sentences to who smoked crack. He likes to pretend that blacks made the laws unjust or they deserve the laws to be unjust. Just like I said earlier about atheroess homes and how that could happen, here is evidence and he ignores it.

Squeeze was wrong, the facts disagree with his ignorance and his last ditch effort is to ask who told them to smoke crack. Completely ignoring the laws, it's implications and it's effect on the black community.

show the world the laws that discriminate against blacks.

show us any law that requires blacks to serve longer sentences

pats CC and KS on nappy heads

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Her statement was accurate.

Your strawman failed!

When blacks stop disproportionately committing violent crimes I'll stop blaming them.

when blacks stop disproportionately get off of welfare I'll stop blaming them.

When black stop disproportionately having children out of wedlock I'll stop blaming them.

When black stop disproportionately having abortions I'll stop blaming them.

All the above problems the black communities face they have blamed "whitey" to one degree of another.

It is quite clear that you are not interested in debating the facts, you're more interested in defending your fellow black man. No matter how wrong they and you are.


Class dismissed.

Is your new mantra "disproportionately'???? Like whites don't commit violent crimes, and aren't the largest group on welfare, aren't having children out of wedlock, aren't having abortions, and aren't blaming minorities for their problems.
Opinions you're entitled to....not facts. The very notion that you can sit comfortably in your seat and tell me how wrong black people are as if you and yours are immaculate, "disproportionately" voids your premise and your conclusion.

The black population has also had a "disproportionately" lesser number of years in America with the full rights of citizenship and equal opportunity than any other ethnicity in this country, which has in many cases created a "disproportionately" higher rate of generational poverty within a "disproportionately" higher number of families in this country.

Is that why they have a higher violent crime rate, higher abortion rate and higher number of fatherless children?

Look at the crime rate in the UK comparing blacks to whites.

Blacks are 5 times more likely to commit violence against the person.
Blacks are 4 times ‘more likely’ to commit sexual offences.
Blacks are fifteen times ‘more likely’ to commit robbery.
Blacks are over six times ‘more likely’ to commit fraud and forgery.
Blacks are over twice as likely to commit criminal damage.
Black are five times ‘more likely’ to commit drugs offences.

Source: The UK Government

 

[Truthseeker420]

Duct tape Democrats' mouths and pull the plug on the Liberal media.

Only way a Republican can win a debate.

 

[squeeze berry]

Duct tape Democrats' mouths and pull the plug on the Liberal media.

Only way a Republican can win a debate.

only way a lib can win a debate is to scream RACISM

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Duct tape Democrats' mouths and pull the plug on the Liberal media.

Only way a Republican can win a debate.

only way a lib can win a debate is to scream RACISM

I have yet to see a lib win a debate.

 

[squeeze berry]

Only way a Republican can win a debate.

only way a lib can win a debate is to scream RACISM

I have yet to see a lib win a debate.

the title of the OP has the word honest in it.

That is where they fail

 

[poet]

See, when facts are presented squeeze changes the subject from unjust prison sentences to who smoked crack. He likes to pretend that blacks made the laws unjust or they deserve the laws to be unjust. Just like I said earlier about atheroess homes and how that could happen, here is evidence and he ignores it.

Squeeze was wrong, the facts disagree with his ignorance and his last ditch effort is to ask who told them to smoke crack. Completely ignoring the laws, it's implications and it's effect on the black community.

show the world the laws that discriminate against blacks.

show us any law that requires blacks to serve longer sentences

pats CC and KS on nappy heads

Uh, laws don't discriminate against blacks.....prosecutors and judges discriminate against blacks, disproportionately, compared to whites. White judges discriminately hand down harsher sentences to blacks as compared to whites.

 

[poet]

Is your new mantra "disproportionately'???? Like whites don't commit violent crimes, and aren't the largest group on welfare, aren't having children out of wedlock, aren't having abortions, and aren't blaming minorities for their problems.
Opinions you're entitled to....not facts. The very notion that you can sit comfortably in your seat and tell me how wrong black people are as if you and yours are immaculate, "disproportionately" voids your premise and your conclusion.

The black population has also had a "disproportionately" lesser number of years in America with the full rights of citizenship and equal opportunity than any other ethnicity in this country, which has in many cases created a "disproportionately" higher rate of generational poverty within a "disproportionately" higher number of families in this country.

Is that why they have a higher violent crime rate, higher abortion rate and higher number of fatherless children?

Look at the crime rate in the UK comparing blacks to whites.

Blacks are 5 times more likely to commit violence against the person.
Blacks are 4 times ‘more likely’ to commit sexual offences.
Blacks are fifteen times ‘more likely’ to commit robbery.
Blacks are over six times ‘more likely’ to commit fraud and forgery.
Blacks are over twice as likely to commit criminal damage.
Black are five times ‘more likely’ to commit drugs offences.

Source: The UK Government

Statistics, compiled by whites, to serve an agenda. Not buying it.

 

[katsteve2012]

Then you disagree with many psychologists.

Some yes, and some no.

Your prerogative.

Agreed.

Please refrain from altering my quotes.

I did not intentionally alter your quote, I have no need or desire to mix my words with yours.

 

[katsteve2012]

The Irish came after the Negros and we had an Irish president 50 years before we even had a half negro one.

And? Since when was being Irish designated as an ethnicity? And when the Irish arrived, under what conditions did they arrive? Captives or newly welcomed immigrants free to pursue the American Dream?

Ok, I'll give you that negros were worse off when they came, but today's negros start life with the same opportunities as everyone else. My ancestors were serfs back in the old country but I don't carry a massive chip on my shoulder because of it and blame any problems on that. I don't even feel ANY animosity to their oppressors' descendants. It's ancient history and it didn't even happen to me.

As for the discussion about the words "African American", that's why I use the term "negro", it's much more elegant.

No need to "give" me anything. I was simply pointing out that your example of the Irish was not a valid comparison. And "elegance" is a matter of opinion.

In you case though it probably easier than typing two words.

Carry on.

 

[poet]

The Irish came after the Negros and we had an Irish president 50 years before we even had a half negro one.

And? Since when was being Irish designated as an ethnicity? And when the Irish arrived, under what conditions did they arrive? Captives or newly welcomed immigrants free to pursue the American Dream?

Ok, I'll give you that negros were worse off when they came, but today's negros start life with the same opportunities as everyone else. My ancestors were serfs back in the old country but I don't carry a massive chip on my shoulder because of it and blame any problems on that. I don't even feel ANY animosity to their oppressors' descendants. It's ancient history and it didn't even happen to me.

As for the discussion about the words "African American", that's why I use the term "negro", it's much more elegant.

Address an African-American as "negro", and watch your feelings get hurt. The term is "passe'", and you don't get to determine how we choose to be addressed.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Where do I start:

Lone, I can't name any traditions that have been taken from blacks because I never said any HAS been taken. If you find where I said that you win...if not, you lose.

Blacks want to be blacks means you having a problem with black traditions mean shit and whining about blacks not wanting to assimilate (drop their traditions, name or culture) means nothing. We will be who we are regardless of how YOU feel about it. It's curious that line about assimilating isn't leveled at any other group.

I posted an example of how differing unfair laws can affect the black community. I notice you cannot refute it so you change the subject to crack pipes. Ppl who sell typically don't use but you had to change the subject some way. So what I said is true unless you want to refute it

Crack was put in the black communities by Reagan. The reason it's still there is the fault of drug addicts just like with white Ppl.

And since you have no experience with the black community, you pretending to know "the biggest" problem in our community is laughable. You can't refute a word I say, you just change the topic.

Do you contradict yourself often?

No

First you say that no traditions are being denied to blacks then you say whites want you to drop your traditions.

And the contradiction is what?

What traditions do whites want you to drop?

Kwanzaa, NAACP, BET, Calling ourselves African American, Black History Month, Addressing the black community specifically, black leaders, black church and rhetoric etc. etc

It's a simple question.

And you did say this, "They have no problem with the traditions of Italians, Jews, Irish etc...but blacks need to cut that shit out", implying that somehow black traditions are being threatened.

Implying that whites have a problem with only minorities and their traditions or way of life. Minorities are always encouraged by whites to drop their shit and assimilate, if you don't assimilate (to the point where whites are satisfied) then you are a segregationist, separatists or something else not positive

I don't recall you posting any law that was unfair to blacks. I did see you post the fact that blacks get caught and convicted for crack cocaine more often than whites. You feel it's unfair. I feel it's because blacks get caught at a higher rate and it could be because they deal in crack more than whites.

Of course because you don't want to see any sort of connection. Crack is prevalent in black communities, cocaine is prevalent in white communities, make the laws against crack 100 times worst than the laws for cocaine...JUST SO HAPPENS that it affects more blacks than whites. Who woulda thunk it? Not you obviously, lets put it another way...Make the showing of religious symbols illegal, but make showing a cross 100 times worst than the star of David.

That doesn't mean that Christians are being unfairly targeted right? So the prison population explodes with Christians that doesn't mean its unfair to Christians. How did you put it...oh, that just means that Christians are caught at a higher rate. Completely ignoring how the prison sentence is 100 times MORE AFTER the Arrest. That just means things just happened that way.

So please list the laws you deem unfair to blacks.

I did and you wont address the sentencing aspect just the arrest. Why?

Crack was put in the community by Reagan? You have to prove that asinine claim.

With proof? Or proof that you accept? Because I posted proof. I cant post anything that will make you accept it tho

One doesn't have to be from the ghetto to understand the problems in the ghetto. Some of us are intelligent enough to look at the evidence and draw a conclusion.

All you have is "blame whitey".

One should have some experience with the community or ppl they are talking about especially when one claims they know the "biggest problem".

Actually, I blamed the Justice System, Unfair Laws, and Reagan. The Justice system isn't white, unfair laws aren't white. I even posted evidence and all you provide is lip service. You choose to ignore everything I post because its easier for you to slap a "hate whitey" label on it and fight that than to deal with the evidence I provided.

Personal Attacks are the last ditch effort for someone who has no defense.

 

[ClosedCaption]

See, when facts are presented squeeze changes the subject from unjust prison sentences to who smoked crack. He likes to pretend that blacks made the laws unjust or they deserve the laws to be unjust. Just like I said earlier about atheroess homes and how that could happen, here is evidence and he ignores it.

Squeeze was wrong, the facts disagree with his ignorance and his last ditch effort is to ask who told them to smoke crack. Completely ignoring the laws, it's implications and it's effect on the black community.

show the world the laws that discriminate against blacks.

show us any law that requires blacks to serve longer sentences

pats CC and KS on nappy heads

I did...The crack cocaine laws. Longer sentences for the same drug.

Blacks on average receive longer jail time for the same crimes as well. That's also been posted. Just because you ignore it or question it doesn't mean it doesn't exist anymore.

 

[Unkotare]

The black population has also had a "disproportionately" lesser number of years in America with the full rights of citizenship and equal opportunity than any other ethnicity in this country, which has in many cases created a "disproportionately" higher rate of generational poverty within a "disproportionately" higher number of families in this country.

Is that why they have a higher violent crime rate, higher abortion rate and higher number of fatherless children?

Look at the crime rate in the UK comparing blacks to whites.

Blacks are 5 times more likely to commit violence against the person.
Blacks are 4 times ‘more likely’ to commit sexual offences.
Blacks are fifteen times ‘more likely’ to commit robbery.
Blacks are over six times ‘more likely’ to commit fraud and forgery.
Blacks are over twice as likely to commit criminal damage.
Black are five times ‘more likely’ to commit drugs offences.

Source: The UK Government

Statistics, compiled by whites, to serve an agenda. Not buying it.

You're as much of a racist POS as he is.

 

[Unkotare]

I did...The crack cocaine laws. Longer sentences for the same drug. .

Not the same drug.

 

[Unkotare]

As for the discussion about the words "African American", that's why I use the term "negro", it's much more elegant.

No, that's not why you use it, you lying POS. You're too much of a pussy to even be honest.

 

[Unkotare]

Crack was put in the black communities by Reagan. .

If you're going to be this stupid, take it to the Conspiracy Forum, nutjob.