An Honest Conversation about Race

[emilynghiem]

How about their identities. Their cultural connection with their ancestors by dividing them, raping the women to breed more slaves,
and changing their names where they could not trace their families.

If you think this is limited to just the slaves in the past,
you do not understand the full impact spiritually that is carried for generations to come.
Some of this came from tribal conflicts carried to America from Africa.
But the additional genocide committed on top of that just makes it worse.
And the healing requires addressing both levels of genocidal tribal warfare.
That is a lot to carry which has not fully been addressed or resolved.

The people who have healed from it and are spiritually free, I
applaud and respect for what it takes to reach that level of liberation from the past. But it is not
fair to judge people still carrying anger and grief from past generations into future generations
still suffering the effects of multiple levels of genocide and political slavery.

As one of my conservative Republican friends put it, slavery put
the African Americans 150 behind on the learning curve of
owning and managing their own property and businesses.
Now if you add judgment of the victims on top of that,
you add insult to injury. i agree we should not enable victimhood and blame,
but we should recognize the injuries and help people to overcome the disparity
of the past that still affects our generations and economy today.

Where do I start:

Lone, I can't name any traditions that have been taken from blacks because I never said any HAS been taken. If you find where I said that you win...if not, you lose.

Dear LL and CC: For one, the natural tradition of communities making decisions as a group "collectively" has been undermined in order to keep Blacks divided and oppressed.

In the past, Blacks were kept divided against each other by giving "House negroes" more privileges than the "field negroes"; which prevented them from uniting to liberate themselves as long as they were fighting each other. This problem continues to this day.

Now the liberal Blacks with the Democrat Party are divided from conservative Blacks with the Republican Party, where both demonize the other with blame instead of working together.

In the historic neighborhood where I live, the developers were able to invade and destroy by playing divide and conquer. As long as the community organized and represented their interests together, they could better defend the equal protection of the whole community.

But by deliberately picking off the elderly and harassing them individually in court where they crumbled under pressure, the developers were able to drive them out of their homes.
Even recently a City official justified not helping with historic preservation of churches due to "separation of church and state" used as an excuse to divide and discriminate.

They also pitted leaders and interests of one neighborhood against the others, threatening to cut their grants, support and funding if they came out in defense of the district that that developers planned to gut by gentrification, in exchange for funding the other wards.

You can blame these politically divisive tactics on human beings in general, but when used against minorities who already start out with unequal resources and representation to begin with, this is more damaging and makes it even harder to establish equal standing.

If you see it as political and economic, I agree it is class-based; but the perception of race added to it makes it even more painful and adds yet another layer to the injustice that has to be addressed for the community to heal in the historic struggle to overcome inequality.

 

[LilOlLady]

What is there to talk about? Equal opportunity in education and employment solves all the race problems

 

[katsteve2012]

Whites and Welfare: GOP and the Food Stamp Fallacy




So let's stop "spinning" and twisting the truth. I don't need to show that she's wrong....she's wrong. The overwhelmingly vast majority of blacks "work", "hard", everyday...so retire the myth that blacks have their hands "out" and are inherently "lazy". That is a stereotype that certain white people (with agendas) love to tout, because it makes them feel good about themselves and their lack of initiative. Stop blaming black people for your problems.

Her statement was accurate.

Your strawman failed!

When blacks stop disproportionately committing violent crimes I'll stop blaming them.

when blacks stop disproportionately get off of welfare I'll stop blaming them.

When black stop disproportionately having children out of wedlock I'll stop blaming them.

When black stop disproportionately having abortions I'll stop blaming them.

All the above problems the black communities face they have blamed "whitey" to one degree of another.

It is quite clear that you are not interested in debating the facts, you're more interested in defending your fellow black man. No matter how wrong they and you are.


Class dismissed.

Is your new mantra "disproportionately'???? Like whites don't commit violent crimes, and aren't the largest group on welfare, aren't having children out of wedlock, aren't having abortions, and aren't blaming minorities for their problems.
Opinions you're entitled to....not facts. The very notion that you can sit comfortably in your seat and tell me how wrong black people are as if you and yours are immaculate, "disproportionately" voids your premise and your conclusion.

The black population has also had a "disproportionately" lesser number of years in America with the full rights of citizenship and equal opportunity than any other ethnicity in this country, which has in many cases created a "disproportionately" higher rate of generational poverty within a "disproportionately" higher number of families in this country.

 

[poet]

Her statement was accurate.

Your strawman failed!

When blacks stop disproportionately committing violent crimes I'll stop blaming them.

when blacks stop disproportionately get off of welfare I'll stop blaming them.

When black stop disproportionately having children out of wedlock I'll stop blaming them.

When black stop disproportionately having abortions I'll stop blaming them.

All the above problems the black communities face they have blamed "whitey" to one degree of another.

It is quite clear that you are not interested in debating the facts, you're more interested in defending your fellow black man. No matter how wrong they and you are.


Class dismissed.

Is your new mantra "disproportionately'???? Like whites don't commit violent crimes, and aren't the largest group on welfare, aren't having children out of wedlock, aren't having abortions, and aren't blaming minorities for their problems.
Opinions you're entitled to....not facts. The very notion that you can sit comfortably in your seat and tell me how wrong black people are as if you and yours are immaculate, "disproportionately" voids your premise and your conclusion.

The black population has also had a "disproportionately" lesser number of years in America with the full rights of citizenship and equal opportunity than any other ethnicity in this country, which has in many cases created a "disproportionately" higher rate of generational poverty within a "disproportionately" higher number of families in this country.

Absolutely. In a system, devised by whites, who sought to maintain control and dominance, by instituting Jim Crow, following slavery, designed to repress, oppress, indoctrinate, demonize and discriminate against blacks....setting them up "to fail", wallow in poverty, be menially employed and denied the American Dream.....until the Civil Rights Movement, "kick-started" change.

 

[squeeze berry]

Where do I start:

Lone, I can't name any traditions that have been taken from blacks because I never said any HAS been taken. If you find where I said that you win...if not, you lose.

Blacks want to be blacks means you having a problem with black traditions mean shit and whining about blacks not wanting to assimilate (drop their traditions, name or culture) means nothing. We will be who we are regardless of how YOU feel about it. It's curious that line about assimilating isn't leveled at any other group.

I posted an example of how differing unfair laws can affect the black community. I notice you cannot refute it so you change the subject to crack pipes. Ppl who sell typically don't use but you had to change the subject some way. So what I said is true unless you want to refute it

Crack was put in the black communities by Reagan. The reason it's still there is the fault of drug addicts just like with white Ppl.

And since you have no experience with the black community, you pretending to know "the biggest" problem in our community is laughable. You can't refute a word I say, you just change the topic.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Where do I start:

Lone, I can't name any traditions that have been taken from blacks because I never said any HAS been taken. If you find where I said that you win...if not, you lose.

Blacks want to be blacks means you having a problem with black traditions mean shit and whining about blacks not wanting to assimilate (drop their traditions, name or culture) means nothing. We will be who we are regardless of how YOU feel about it. It's curious that line about assimilating isn't leveled at any other group.

I posted an example of how differing unfair laws can affect the black community. I notice you cannot refute it so you change the subject to crack pipes. Ppl who sell typically don't use but you had to change the subject some way. So what I said is true unless you want to refute it

Crack was put in the black communities by Reagan. The reason it's still there is the fault of drug addicts just like with white Ppl.

And since you have no experience with the black community, you pretending to know "the biggest" problem in our community is laughable. You can't refute a word I say, you just change the topic.

Iran Contra, Inspector General Hitz, DEA agent Celerino Castillo, Gary Webb, CIA Drug Trafficing

 

[ima]

Is your new mantra "disproportionately'???? Like whites don't commit violent crimes, and aren't the largest group on welfare, aren't having children out of wedlock, aren't having abortions, and aren't blaming minorities for their problems.
Opinions you're entitled to....not facts. The very notion that you can sit comfortably in your seat and tell me how wrong black people are as if you and yours are immaculate, "disproportionately" voids your premise and your conclusion.

The black population has also had a "disproportionately" lesser number of years in America with the full rights of citizenship and equal opportunity than any other ethnicity in this country, which has in many cases created a "disproportionately" higher rate of generational poverty within a "disproportionately" higher number of families in this country.

Absolutely. In a system, devised by whites, who sought to maintain control and dominance, by instituting Jim Crow, following slavery, designed to repress, oppress, indoctrinate, demonize and discriminate against blacks....setting them up "to fail", wallow in poverty, be menially employed and denied the American Dream.....until the Civil Rights Movement, "kick-started" change.

The Irish came after the Negros and we had an Irish president 50 years before we even had a half negro one.

 

[ClosedCaption]

The black population has also had a "disproportionately" lesser number of years in America with the full rights of citizenship and equal opportunity than any other ethnicity in this country, which has in many cases created a "disproportionately" higher rate of generational poverty within a "disproportionately" higher number of families in this country.

Absolutely. In a system, devised by whites, who sought to maintain control and dominance, by instituting Jim Crow, following slavery, designed to repress, oppress, indoctrinate, demonize and discriminate against blacks....setting them up "to fail", wallow in poverty, be menially employed and denied the American Dream.....until the Civil Rights Movement, "kick-started" change.

The Irish came after the Negros and we had an Irish president 50 years before we even had a half negro one.

Well according to the human self-help books that exist here the reason for that is because a black person never wanted to be president bad enough in over 200 years...

 

[squeeze berry]

Where do I start:

Lone, I can't name any traditions that have been taken from blacks because I never said any HAS been taken. If you find where I said that you win...if not, you lose.

Blacks want to be blacks means you having a problem with black traditions mean shit and whining about blacks not wanting to assimilate (drop their traditions, name or culture) means nothing. We will be who we are regardless of how YOU feel about it. It's curious that line about assimilating isn't leveled at any other group.

I posted an example of how differing unfair laws can affect the black community. I notice you cannot refute it so you change the subject to crack pipes. Ppl who sell typically don't use but you had to change the subject some way. So what I said is true unless you want to refute it

Crack was put in the black communities by Reagan. The reason it's still there is the fault of drug addicts just like with white Ppl.

And since you have no experience with the black community, you pretending to know "the biggest" problem in our community is laughable. You can't refute a word I say, you just change the topic.

Iran Contra, Inspector General Hitz, DEA agent Celerino Castillo, Gary Webb, CIA Drug Trafficing

more appropriate in the tin foil hat sub forum

 

[ClosedCaption]

Iran Contra, Inspector General Hitz, DEA agent Celerino Castillo, Gary Webb, CIA Drug Trafficing

more appropriate in the tin foil hat sub forum

Cute *pats squeeze on the head* Now go play

 

[Wry Catcher]

should begin with the fact that a majority of Whites don't spend their days dreaming up ways to screw Blacks, whereas the majority of Blacks believe they are getting screwed by Whites. How to bridge this gulf between perceptions?

So you want honesty, well here's a quote from the Milton S. Eisenhower foundation to start an honest debate:

We also need to expose the lack of morality and democracy in the policy of the 1980s, which lingers today. Giving to the rich and taking from the poor is not just failed economics but also failed morality. So is a policy of spending more on prison building than on higher education. The "free market," "open competition" ideology of supply-side naysayers is a purposeful lie. In practice, corporations today try to maximize market share, acquire the competition and use their profits to hire lobbyists who buy votes in legislatures and during campaigns. The result is a "one dollar, one vote" democracy more consonant with Al Capone's morality than with the traditional American concepts of fair play and "one person, one vote."

 

[katsteve2012]

Where do I start:

Lone, I can't name any traditions that have been taken from blacks because I never said any HAS been taken. If you find where I said that you win...if not, you lose.

Blacks want to be blacks means you having a problem with black traditions mean shit and whining about blacks not wanting to assimilate (drop their traditions, name or culture) means nothing. We will be who we are regardless of how YOU feel about it. It's curious that line about assimilating isn't leveled at any other group.

I posted an example of how differing unfair laws can affect the black community. I notice you cannot refute it so you change the subject to crack pipes. Ppl who sell typically don't use but you had to change the subject some way. So what I said is true unless you want to refute it

Crack was put in the black communities by Reagan. The reason it's still there is the fault of drug addicts just like with white Ppl.

And since you have no experience with the black community, you pretending to know "the biggest" problem in our community is laughable. You can't refute a word I say, you just change the topic.

Iran Contra, Inspector General Hitz, DEA agent Celerino Castillo, Gary Webb, CIA Drug Trafficing

Correct:

AMERICA'S SECRET WAR

Homeless addicts, crack babies, drive-by-shootings, gangs, burglaries, robberies, muggings, black-on-black youth violence. Where did this scourge come from?

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/CIA/secret_war.html

 

[ClosedCaption]

The rise of the crack industry has had lasting effects on communities across America. In 1980, one out of every 453 Americans was incarcerated. By 1993, one out of every 189 Americans was incarcerated. Between 1980 and 1993, the U.S. prison population tripled (from 329,821 to 1,053,738).[8]

But not just anyone went to jail. Crack is a poor person's drug; powder cocaine remains a recreation of the rich. Congress and 14 states passed laws making penalties for crack up to 100 times as great as penalties for powder cocaine. As a result, blacks were much more likely to go to jail, and for longer periods, than whites. In 1993 blacks were seven times more likely to be incarcerated than whites; an estimated 1471 blacks per 100,000 black residents vs. 207 whites per 100,000 white residents were imprisoned at the end of 1993.[8]

Prisons are now the fastest-growing item in almost all state budgets. California spends more on prisons than it does on colleges and universities. (NY TIMES 6/2/96, p. 16E) Former defense contractors are now getting into the lucrative incarceration business. (NY TIMES August 23, 1996, pg. B1.) Almost three quarters of new admissions to prisons are now African-American or Hispanic. If present trends continue for another 14 years, an absolute majority of African American males between the ages of 18 and 40 will be in prison or in detention camps. (NY TIMES 8/10/95, pg. A14.) A secret war indeed

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/CIA/secret_war.html

Squeeze will excuse this and pretend that the blacks made the justice system treat them differently

 

[squeeze berry]

The rise of the crack industry has had lasting effects on communities across America. In 1980, one out of every 453 Americans was incarcerated. By 1993, one out of every 189 Americans was incarcerated. Between 1980 and 1993, the U.S. prison population tripled (from 329,821 to 1,053,738).[8]

But not just anyone went to jail. Crack is a poor person's drug; powder cocaine remains a recreation of the rich. Congress and 14 states passed laws making penalties for crack up to 100 times as great as penalties for powder cocaine. As a result, blacks were much more likely to go to jail, and for longer periods, than whites. In 1993 blacks were seven times more likely to be incarcerated than whites; an estimated 1471 blacks per 100,000 black residents vs. 207 whites per 100,000 white residents were imprisoned at the end of 1993.[8]

Prisons are now the fastest-growing item in almost all state budgets. California spends more on prisons than it does on colleges and universities. (NY TIMES 6/2/96, p. 16E) Former defense contractors are now getting into the lucrative incarceration business. (NY TIMES August 23, 1996, pg. B1.) Almost three quarters of new admissions to prisons are now African-American or Hispanic. If present trends continue for another 14 years, an absolute majority of African American males between the ages of 18 and 40 will be in prison or in detention camps. (NY TIMES 8/10/95, pg. A14.) A secret war indeed

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/CIA/secret_war.html

Squeeze will excuse this and pretend that the blacks made the justice system treat them differently

no one forced anyone to smoke crack much less Ronald Regan

You need professional help for your persecution complex

 

[katsteve2012]

The rise of the crack industry has had lasting effects on communities across America. In 1980, one out of every 453 Americans was incarcerated. By 1993, one out of every 189 Americans was incarcerated. Between 1980 and 1993, the U.S. prison population tripled (from 329,821 to 1,053,738).[8]

But not just anyone went to jail. Crack is a poor person's drug; powder cocaine remains a recreation of the rich. Congress and 14 states passed laws making penalties for crack up to 100 times as great as penalties for powder cocaine. As a result, blacks were much more likely to go to jail, and for longer periods, than whites. In 1993 blacks were seven times more likely to be incarcerated than whites; an estimated 1471 blacks per 100,000 black residents vs. 207 whites per 100,000 white residents were imprisoned at the end of 1993.[8]

Prisons are now the fastest-growing item in almost all state budgets. California spends more on prisons than it does on colleges and universities. (NY TIMES 6/2/96, p. 16E) Former defense contractors are now getting into the lucrative incarceration business. (NY TIMES August 23, 1996, pg. B1.) Almost three quarters of new admissions to prisons are now African-American or Hispanic. If present trends continue for another 14 years, an absolute majority of African American males between the ages of 18 and 40 will be in prison or in detention camps. (NY TIMES 8/10/95, pg. A14.) A secret war indeed

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/CIA/secret_war.html

Squeeze will excuse this and pretend that the blacks made the justice system treat them differently

That being said, I would not give him a second thought, outside of some entertainment/clown value here. There are far more intelligent people in this forum to discuss issues with.

 

[poet]

From Facebook: "I mentioned before in an earlier post about language as the ultimate mind manipulator. Let's take the term "African American." If you are born in Bahia , Brazil, are you not an African American? If you are born in Toronto Canada, are you not an African American? If you are born in Cuba, are you also not an African American? if African American is a valid terminology for every person of African descent born in the United States, which is part of North AMERICA , would it therefore not also apply to a person of African descent born in Canada(also a part of North AMERICA), Central AMERICA or South AMERICA?? Things that make you go HMMMM! YOU DIG!!!"-O.A.G.

 

[ClosedCaption]

See, when facts are presented squeeze changes the subject from unjust prison sentences to who smoked crack. He likes to pretend that blacks made the laws unjust or they deserve the laws to be unjust. Just like I said earlier about atheroess homes and how that could happen, here is evidence and he ignores it.

Squeeze was wrong, the facts disagree with his ignorance and his last ditch effort is to ask who told them to smoke crack. Completely ignoring the laws, it's implications and it's effect on the black community.

 

[yidnar]

From Facebook: "I mentioned before in an earlier post about language as the ultimate mind manipulator. Let's take the term "African American." If you are born in Bahia , Brazil, are you not an African American? If you are born in Toronto Canada, are you not an African American? If you are born in Cuba, are you also not an African American? if African American is a valid terminology for every person of African descent born in the United States, which is part of North AMERICA , would it therefore not also apply to a person of African descent born in Canada(also a part of North AMERICA), Central AMERICA or South AMERICA?? Things that make you go HMMMM! YOU DIG!!!"-O.A.G.

if you live in Africa and you are black would you be an African African ??

 

[AVG-JOE]

From Facebook: "I mentioned before in an earlier post about language as the ultimate mind manipulator. Let's take the term "African American." If you are born in Bahia , Brazil, are you not an African American? If you are born in Toronto Canada, are you not an African American? If you are born in Cuba, are you also not an African American? if African American is a valid terminology for every person of African descent born in the United States, which is part of North AMERICA , would it therefore not also apply to a person of African descent born in Canada(also a part of North AMERICA), Central AMERICA or South AMERICA?? Things that make you go HMMMM! YOU DIG!!!"-O.A.G.

And THAT is why I'm an average American Mutt.

 

[katsteve2012]

The black population has also had a "disproportionately" lesser number of years in America with the full rights of citizenship and equal opportunity than any other ethnicity in this country, which has in many cases created a "disproportionately" higher rate of generational poverty within a "disproportionately" higher number of families in this country.

Absolutely. In a system, devised by whites, who sought to maintain control and dominance, by instituting Jim Crow, following slavery, designed to repress, oppress, indoctrinate, demonize and discriminate against blacks....setting them up "to fail", wallow in poverty, be menially employed and denied the American Dream.....until the Civil Rights Movement, "kick-started" change.

The Irish came after the Negros and we had an Irish president 50 years before we even had a half negro one.

And? Since when was being Irish designated as an ethnicity? And when the Irish arrived, under what conditions did they arrive? Captives or newly welcomed immigrants free to pursue the American Dream?