An Open Letter to Pro-"Immigration" supporters

[TemplarKormac]

Look at our southern border with Mexico right now. Is this your ultimate goal? Is this what you want? To have caravans of immigrants coming here to game our legal system? Hordes of illegal immigrants crossing over a seemingly nonexistent border between two countries?

Seeking asylum is a great way to escape hardship of living in a volatile country, and in this case, it is a great way to avoid, i.e. SKIRT the naturalization process. Coming here illegally doesn't lay out a better life for the person doing it, it only complicates it even further.

And for any liberal who claims to have any respect for our laws and customs, I advise you to think again. If you try to justify why there should be any illegal immigration going on, for any purpose, for any reason... you don't. I want congress to close the loopholes currently being exploited by those asylum seekers. I want our border to be enforced.

I don't care what kind of life these "immigrants" are trying to make for themselves here. They need to do it right. Legally. If they are incapable of following one law, that must mean they will have very little respect for and willingness to obey other laws. We are a sovereign country, and we should start acting like one.

Congress and the executive branch are controlled by the GOP the people at the border have been turned away.But this govt. run by the GOP refuses to change refugee laws that enable people to come here in mass droves.

Problem:

We have two parties in our legislature. One wants to do it, one wants to stop them. They are so hell bent on resisting anything Trump does, that they are willing to stymie the legislative process. So, blame all of them when something doesn't get done.

That isn't accurate. At all.

Trump's "solutions" aren't the only options.

No, but he seems to be the only one willing to offer them. Our congress can't stop bickering long enough to offer any of their own.

And yes, the Democrats are stalling and slowing our legislative and nominative processes down. How many nominees have yet to be confirmed for Trump's administration? At least 200.

Federalist 10 warned this kind of stuff would happen, when factions begin to form in our Congress... instead of two parties, there are those two parties with different factions within.

 

[jc456]

And even though asylum is legal, the process right now is being abused. It is being used in an attempt to "skip the line" that is our immigration and naturalization process.

I don't think it's being abused. Most requests are denied.

I understand that. Hence the word "attempt". I never implied they were all successful.

Asylum is an important pillar of our nation's values imo...but I've gotten to the point where I no longer care what people think of me. I support legal immigration, I support asylum, I support the recognition of illegal immigrants as Human Beings. I oppose the ripping apart of families.

Question, who put those families in a position to be torn apart? They made the decision, make them live with it.


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I don't care.

I do. Who wins?

 

[Coyote]

I have no problem with deporting dangerous criminals. But ripping apart families is wrong. It's a MINOR offense. I would far rather see resources going toward apprehending more serioius crimes.

A crime is a crime Coyote, no matter the scope or magnitude of it. What kind of precedent does it set when we prosecute you for one crime and blatantly turn a blind eye to your commission of another?

Do you treat jay walking the same as rape? I don't....

I also think it's important to look at the individual situations.

Someone who enters this country illegally to human traffick is viewd (imo) differently then someone entering to flee cartel violence in Guatamala.

They have no right to enter our country in either of your examples

Asylum is legal. Therefore they have a right to enter to seek it.

 

[Coyote]

I don't think it's being abused. Most requests are denied.

I understand that. Hence the word "attempt". I never implied they were all successful.

Asylum is an important pillar of our nation's values imo...but I've gotten to the point where I no longer care what people think of me. I support legal immigration, I support asylum, I support the recognition of illegal immigrants as Human Beings. I oppose the ripping apart of families.

Question, who put those families in a position to be torn apart? They made the decision, make them live with it.


.

I don't care.

I do. Who wins?

 

[jc456]

I have no problem with deporting dangerous criminals. But ripping apart families is wrong. It's a MINOR offense. I would far rather see resources going toward apprehending more serioius crimes.

A crime is a crime Coyote, no matter the scope or magnitude of it. What kind of precedent does it set when we prosecute you for one crime and blatantly turn a blind eye to your commission of another?

Do you treat jay walking the same as rape? I don't....

I also think it's important to look at the individual situations.

Someone who enters this country illegally to human traffick is viewd (imo) differently then someone entering to flee cartel violence in Guatamala.

They have no right to enter our country in either of your examples

Asylum is legal. Therefore they have a right to enter to seek it.

Only if approved. Not because you simply asked. If you walk in, you’re illegal if you don’t have permission

 

[OKTexas]

Look at our southern border with Mexico right now. Is this your ultimate goal? Is this what you want? To have caravans of immigrants coming here to game our legal system? Hordes of illegal immigrants crossing over a seemingly nonexistent border between two countries?

Seeking asylum is a great way to escape hardship of living in a volatile country, and in this case, it is a great way to avoid, i.e. SKIRT the naturalization process. Coming here illegally doesn't lay out a better life for the person doing it, it only complicates it even further.

And for any liberal who claims to have any respect for our laws and customs, I advise you to think again. If you try to justify why there should be any illegal immigration going on, for any purpose, for any reason... you don't. I want congress to close the loopholes currently being exploited by those asylum seekers. I want our border to be enforced.

I don't care what kind of life these "immigrants" are trying to make for themselves here. They need to do it right. Legally. If they are incapable of following one law, that must mean they will have very little respect for and willingness to obey other laws. We are a sovereign country, and we should start acting like one.

Should we give our Statue of Liberty back to the French, and blame the right wing?

No we should return it to it's original condition and take the plaque off it that was added later.


.

 

[Coyote]

Look at our southern border with Mexico right now. Is this your ultimate goal? Is this what you want? To have caravans of immigrants coming here to game our legal system? Hordes of illegal immigrants crossing over a seemingly nonexistent border between two countries?

Seeking asylum is a great way to escape hardship of living in a volatile country, and in this case, it is a great way to avoid, i.e. SKIRT the naturalization process. Coming here illegally doesn't lay out a better life for the person doing it, it only complicates it even further.

And for any liberal who claims to have any respect for our laws and customs, I advise you to think again. If you try to justify why there should be any illegal immigration going on, for any purpose, for any reason... you don't. I want congress to close the loopholes currently being exploited by those asylum seekers. I want our border to be enforced.

I don't care what kind of life these "immigrants" are trying to make for themselves here. They need to do it right. Legally. If they are incapable of following one law, that must mean they will have very little respect for and willingness to obey other laws. We are a sovereign country, and we should start acting like one.

Congress and the executive branch are controlled by the GOP the people at the border have been turned away.But this govt. run by the GOP refuses to change refugee laws that enable people to come here in mass droves.

Problem:

We have two parties in our legislature. One wants to do it, one wants to stop them. They are so hell bent on resisting anything Trump does, that they are willing to stymie the legislative process. So, blame all of them when something doesn't get done.

That isn't accurate. At all.

Trump's "solutions" aren't the only options.

No, but he seems to be the only one willing to offer them. Our congress can't stop bickering long enough to offer any of their own.

And yes, the Democrats are stalling and slowing our legislative and nominative processes down. How many nominees have yet to be confirmed for Trump's administration? At least 200.

Federalist 10 warned this kind of stuff would happen, when factions begin to form in our Congress... instead of two parties, there are those two parties with different factions within.

No. He isnt. That's the problem. He refused a bipartisan agreement he had agreed to. Neither he nor congress seem in the least bit interested in bipartisan comprehensive immigration reform. With Trump - he wants his way period. Thought we had a DACA deal? No. He had to throw in a conservative wetdream of immigration reform instead that he knew would not pass.

By the way....how did Obama's nominees go? Pretty slow eh?

I'm sick of it all Templar.

 

[Coyote]

I have no problem with deporting dangerous criminals. But ripping apart families is wrong. It's a MINOR offense. I would far rather see resources going toward apprehending more serioius crimes.

A crime is a crime Coyote, no matter the scope or magnitude of it. What kind of precedent does it set when we prosecute you for one crime and blatantly turn a blind eye to your commission of another?

Do you treat jay walking the same as rape? I don't....

I also think it's important to look at the individual situations.

Someone who enters this country illegally to human traffick is viewd (imo) differently then someone entering to flee cartel violence in Guatamala.

They have no right to enter our country in either of your examples

Asylum is legal. Therefore they have a right to enter to seek it.

Only if approved. Not because you simply asked. If you walk in, you’re illegal if you don’t have permission

You have a right to ask. That's legal. If not approved you are deported.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Do you treat jay walking the same as rape? I don't....

No.

That statement is hyperbolic at best. Regarding the law, I am an absolutist. While punishment can and will vary, as it should, there should always be diligent punishment for breaking the law. And coming here illegally is not a minor offense. It is a federal offense.

I have lost patience with people who refuse respect our laws. If you want to be a citizen, earn that right, don't steal it.

 

[Coyote]

Look at our southern border with Mexico right now. Is this your ultimate goal? Is this what you want? To have caravans of immigrants coming here to game our legal system? Hordes of illegal immigrants crossing over a seemingly nonexistent border between two countries?

Seeking asylum is a great way to escape hardship of living in a volatile country, and in this case, it is a great way to avoid, i.e. SKIRT the naturalization process. Coming here illegally doesn't lay out a better life for the person doing it, it only complicates it even further.

And for any liberal who claims to have any respect for our laws and customs, I advise you to think again. If you try to justify why there should be any illegal immigration going on, for any purpose, for any reason... you don't. I want congress to close the loopholes currently being exploited by those asylum seekers. I want our border to be enforced.

I don't care what kind of life these "immigrants" are trying to make for themselves here. They need to do it right. Legally. If they are incapable of following one law, that must mean they will have very little respect for and willingness to obey other laws. We are a sovereign country, and we should start acting like one.

Should we give our Statue of Liberty back to the French, and blame the right wing?

No we should return it to it's original condition and take the plaque off it that was added later.


.

No we shouldn't.

 

[TemplarKormac]

He had to throw in a conservative wetdream of immigration reform instead that he knew would not pass.

Curious, do you want immigration reform that benefits us all equally/equitably? Or is that idea solely confined to right wing thinking?

 

[OKTexas]

Look at our southern border with Mexico right now. Is this your ultimate goal? Is this what you want? To have caravans of immigrants coming here to game our legal system? Hordes of illegal immigrants crossing over a seemingly nonexistent border between two countries?

Seeking asylum is a great way to escape hardship of living in a volatile country, and in this case, it is a great way to avoid, i.e. SKIRT the naturalization process. Coming here illegally doesn't lay out a better life for the person doing it, it only complicates it even further.

And for any liberal who claims to have any respect for our laws and customs, I advise you to think again. If you try to justify why there should be any illegal immigration going on, for any purpose, for any reason... you don't. I want congress to close the loopholes currently being exploited by those asylum seekers. I want our border to be enforced.

I don't care what kind of life these "immigrants" are trying to make for themselves here. They need to do it right. Legally. If they are incapable of following one law, that must mean they will have very little respect for and willingness to obey other laws. We are a sovereign country, and we should start acting like one.

What should happen is the US groups that organized this fiasco should be jailed for human trafficking, along with the lawyers that coached them on what to say.


.

What human trafficking are they engaging in that is breaking the law?

International transportation of people to defraud the government of the US. Coaching people coming to the US for economic reasons to lie to US Border Patrol to gain asylum.


.

 

[Coyote]

Do you treat jay walking the same as rape? I don't....

No.

That statement is hyperbolic at best. Regarding the law, I am an absolutist. While punishment can and will vary, as it should, there should always be diligent punishment for breaking the law. And coming here illegally is not a minor offense. It is a federal offense.

I have lost patience with people who refuse respect our laws. If you want to be a citizen, earn that right, don't steal it.

Really? This is a bit off topic but I'm going here anyway. Diligent punishment isn't always the best answer. I was listening to NPR, I can't remember the exact show. They were talking with a man who was the state prosecuter, about WHY he got into it. He said the prosecutor had enormous power over people's lives...more so than the defense. And as such, they could make a difference in how people might turn out. He referenced one case where a young man, poor, a good student, good grades, badly wanted to go to college but in no way could he afford it made a mistake. He stole 70 computers and sold them to get money. He was caught. That is the sort of mistake that will ruin a person's life forever - they're branded a felon, their chances at education and a good job dim, and they enter the criminal justice system - especially true for a young black man. As prosecutor he could have pressed for 70 charges of theft, which would have been a hefty sentance. He didn't - what he did, I can't recall exactly but it ended up with a sentance that was restitution - he bought back or got back most of the computers, in restitution, did community service, and his conviction (if that is what it was) was expunged so he had no permanent record. He ended up going to college and years later ran into the prosecutor, and thanked him. That's just a rough memory of what I heard but it's telling. IS diligent punishment always the best option? In this case - he would have become just another black youth entering the criminal justice system and he probably would never have escaped. Instead the prosecutor read the situation differently, made a different choice, and the man's life ended up differently. It's the same with illegal immigration - some are worse then others. Should they all be handled the same with out human feeling?

 

[Coyote]

Look at our southern border with Mexico right now. Is this your ultimate goal? Is this what you want? To have caravans of immigrants coming here to game our legal system? Hordes of illegal immigrants crossing over a seemingly nonexistent border between two countries?

Seeking asylum is a great way to escape hardship of living in a volatile country, and in this case, it is a great way to avoid, i.e. SKIRT the naturalization process. Coming here illegally doesn't lay out a better life for the person doing it, it only complicates it even further.

And for any liberal who claims to have any respect for our laws and customs, I advise you to think again. If you try to justify why there should be any illegal immigration going on, for any purpose, for any reason... you don't. I want congress to close the loopholes currently being exploited by those asylum seekers. I want our border to be enforced.

I don't care what kind of life these "immigrants" are trying to make for themselves here. They need to do it right. Legally. If they are incapable of following one law, that must mean they will have very little respect for and willingness to obey other laws. We are a sovereign country, and we should start acting like one.

What should happen is the US groups that organized this fiasco should be jailed for human trafficking, along with the lawyers that coached them on what to say.


.

What human trafficking are they engaging in that is breaking the law?

International transportation of people to defraud the government of the US. Coaching people coming to the US for economic reasons to lie to US Border Patrol to gain asylum.


.

Who is transporting people?

 

[flacaltenn]

And even though asylum is legal, the process right now is being abused. It is being used in an attempt to "skip the line" that is our immigration and naturalization process.

I don't think it's being abused. Most requests are denied.

I understand that. Hence the word "attempt". I never implied they were all successful.

Asylum is an important pillar of our nation's values imo...but I've gotten to the point where I no longer care what people think of me. I support legal immigration, I support asylum, I support the recognition of illegal immigrants as Human Beings. I oppose the ripping apart of families.

You don’t get the right to make that decision though. The constitution does! Go to Mexico then

Go to Russia then.

I'd go to Mexico, but they have a STRICT immigration policy for other "americans". Especially the Guatemalans and Honduras folks that they let pass thru to come here.

There's asylum and then there is crappy countries over-run with crime and poverty. If the GOVT isn't shooting at them and the GOVT isn't restraining criminals from shooting them -- that's an internal problem we cannot prioritize when about 4 million people world-wide are living in absolute devastation and rubble from ACTUAL war and persecution for their views or affiliations.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Really? This is a bit off topic but I'm going here anyway. Diligent punishment isn't always the best answer.

Due process isn't always positive, Coyote. Or are you suggesting we get rid of it? Because if we don't enforce all of our laws with due diligence, whether for better or worse, that is what will happen.

 

[Coyote]

He had to throw in a conservative wetdream of immigration reform instead that he knew would not pass.

Curious, do you want immigration reform that benefits us all equally/equitably? Or is that idea solely confined to right wing thinking?

Not sure what you mean.

What I want in immigration reform is this. Speeding up the legal process so the bottleneck that unfairly penalizes legal immigration, disappears. Increase border security (not with a wall) utilizing technology and personel. Monitor people who come in on VISA's so we know who is hear and who overstays. Prioritize violent offenders over those who, other than being here illegally are law abiding. Speed up deportation of violent offenders.

How does that not benefit us all?

 

[Coyote]

Really? This is a bit off topic but I'm going here anyway. Diligent punishment isn't always the best answer.

Due process isn't always positive, Coyote. Or are you suggesting we get rid of it? Because if we don't enforce all of our laws with due diligence, whether for better or worse, that is what will happen.

You only picked part of what I said...so...do you disagree with what the prosecutor did?

 

[TemplarKormac]

It's the same with illegal immigration - some are worse then others. Should they all be handled the same with out human feeling?

They should all be punished equally. The law should apply equally. In this context, one offense does not outweigh another. They have all broken the same law and should all receive the same punishment - deportation.

"Human feeling" is alright, but it can often be incompatible with enforcement of the law. If you are clearly guilty of your offense, no "human feeling" should save you from the consequence.

 

[OKTexas]

I support legal immigration, I support asylum, I support the recognition of illegal immigrants as Human Beings. I oppose the ripping apart of families.

I get you want to be compassionate. Nothing wrong with that at all. But when such compassion begins to override the rule of law, it's not compassion at all.

We're all human beings, with minds of our own. We can either choose to obey the law or not. I sincerely believe that those who break justly enacted laws should be punished. If your family gets ripped apart because of such malfeasance, I am not obliged to feel sorry for you. You can't have it both ways and expect to stay here forever.

The rule of law allows a certain amount of leeway - in prioritizing what to go after, with limited resources - in determining sentencing.

And that is a good thing. I have no problem with deporting dangerous criminals. But ripping apart families is wrong. It's a MINOR offense. I would far rather see resources going toward apprehending more serioius crimes.

Of course you have no problem with them sucking resources from other areas, education, welfare, SNAP and medical care to name a few.


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