Another knife into the American in need

[Curried Goats]

It's all the same complaint. Democrats saying the right thing but then doing the opposite.

Moderate Democrats. Progressive Democrats do want to tax the rich and fund a universal Healthcare system.

 

[pknopp]

Moderate Democrats. Progressive Democrats do want to tax the rich and fund a universal Healthcare system.

All 3 of them?

 

[Curried Goats]

All 3 of them?

Hyperbole looks as stupid on you as it does the Right.

 

[Frankenstein]

So quit trying to defend it. We needed UHC, not a give away to the Pharmaceutical and Medical industries. We did not need the lies that led up to its passing.

I do not want the Government Bureaucracy in charge of Health care!

 

[OldFlame]

Wow, sucks to be you.

Why does it 'suck to be him'? So you're in favor of/defending Obamacare, big daddy government putting its ugly puss into everything, while you run around this board condemning every conservative that supports government involvement in anything? Do you have any integrity, or brains?

 

[pknopp]

Hyperbole looks as stupid on you as it does the Right.

What happened to tax the rich? The Democrats targeted the poor and middle class with tax increases. They tried to rescind taxes on the rich. (they did fail here at least).

 

[OldFlame]

Agreed. But blaming Obamacare on rising costs is stupid because costs where rising before Obamacare.

Again agreed, but at least it forced insurance companies to cover people with pre-existing conditions. It wasnt prefect, it wasn't even great but it was objectivley better than what we had before.

Obamacare was supposed to eliminate rising costs you idiot, that's what it ran on, it did no such thing, as most of us knew from the get go. It's only made things worse and the pharmas and hospitals richer, not to mention the insurance companies who were supposed to be the 'bad guys'.

 

[pknopp]

I do not want the Government Bureaucracy in charge of Health care!

Then come up with a plan where people can affordably see a doctor when necessary. I care less how it's done.

 

[LibertyKid]

I cannot and will not agree with a “Universal Healthcare” system. I would not participate in any such system. Even if privately operated.

I tend to think that Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of happiness could benefit from it.
What pains me is when two people on two different ends of the economic scale can have a different quality of Life and Happiness.
Is healthcare a commodity or a right
If we could cure cancer, all of it, is that a right to life or a cost to life?

 

[LibertyKid]

Then come up with a plan where people can affordably see a doctor when necessary. I care less how it's done.

I've always had affordable insurance through my employer. Now there is a shared cost from my paycheck and a portion that is paid by my employer. But when I go I think it's a $30 dollar copay. Then there is medicaid for low income.

But don't get me wrong, I think as a nation we could do better. I don't know how it gets done, but we could get it done.

 

[Curried Goats]

Obamacare was supposed to eliminate rising costs you idiot, that's what it ran on, it did no such thing, as most of us knew from the get go. It's only made things worse and the pharmas and hospitals richer, not to mention the insurance companies who were supposed to be the 'bad guys'.

Who believed them when they said they were going to eliminate rising costs? You? I didn't. I'm not arguing about the rhetoric Obama and Pelosi said about it I'm talking about what Obamacare actually did. So it didn't curb rising cost. On that we agreed. On that point Obamacare was a wash. It did force insurance companies to accept people with pre-existing conditions which expanded health insurance to millions of Americans who didn't have health insurance before. That's a positive. That's better than them not being able to get insurance at all. Even if it's costly insurance. The mandate was supposed to limit the rising cost and that went out the window but if anyone thought that anything other than universal Healthcare wasnt also going to benefit insurance companies they haven't being paying much attention to politics.

 

[Anathema]

I tend to think that Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of happiness could benefit from it.
What pains me is when two people on two different ends of the economic scale can have a different quality of Life and Happiness.
Is healthcare a commodity or a right
If we could cure cancer, all of it, is that a right to life or a cost to life?

Life isn’t fair. Never has been. Never will be. Never should be. I don’t believe health or healthcare are Rights. Not that I believe much in Rights to begin with. That would depend on who came up with the cure for Cancer, and how they feel about it.

 

[pknopp]

I've always had affordable insurance through my employer. Now there is a shared cost from my paycheck and a portion that is paid by my employer. But when I go I think it's a $30 dollar copay. Then there is medicaid for low income.

But don't get me wrong, I think as a nation we could do better. I don't know how it gets done, but we could get it done.

So I'm going to go with those who at least have a plan.

 

[OldFlame]

Who believed them when they said they were going to eliminate rising costs? You? I didn't. I'm not arguing about the rhetoric Obama and Pelosi said about it I'm talking about what Obamacare actually did. So it didn't curb rising cost. On that we agreed. On that point Obamacare was a wash. It did force insurance companies to accept people with pre-existing conditions which expanded health insurance to millions of Americans who didn't have health insurance before. That's a positive. That's better than them not being able to get insurance at all. Even if it's costly insurance. The mandate was supposed to limit the rising cost and that went out the window but if anyone thought that anything other than universal Healthcare wasnt also going to benefit insurance companies they haven't being paying much attention to politics.

So you give Obama/Pelosi/dems a pass for lying about what it would do? They lied about it non stop, and people like you defended them and argued for it. It was nothing more than them lining the pockets of their donors and themselves, and the left falls for it and defends it every single time.

 

[pknopp]

So you give Obama/Pelosi/dems a pass for lying about what it would do? They lied about it non stop, and people like you defended them and argued for it. It was nothing more than them lining the pockets of their donors and themselves, and the left falls for it and defends it every single time.

Odd, seems to me I am condemning what they did.

 

[LibertyKid]

Life isn’t fair. Never has been. Never will be. Never should be. I don’t believe health or healthcare are Rights. Not that I believe much in Rights to begin with. That would depend on who came up with the cure for Cancer, and how they feel about it.

I don't disagree with the fairness aspect. Two candidates applying for the same job, one candidate could be more qualified than the other. But, the lesser qualified has a better interview cause he interviews better. He gets the job. That happens. The other candidate learns from his mistakes and moves on. Those elements he can control.

For many, healthcare is something they can't control. As a side note: cosmetic surgery, electives, abortion (except for certain conditions), none of those should ever be covered by UHC.

You would be okay with the owner of the cure selling for whatever price he deemed "fair"?
I guess I look at "life" differently than you and possibly others. We have one life, one and done. As a society, why can't life have a greater value than the value we place on our political ideology? Shouldn't the quality of our life, when in danger and not self inflicted, be aided by the miracle of modern medicine without worrying about the cost?

 

[OldFlame]

Odd, seems to me I am condemning what they did.

Odd, I wasn't quoting you.

 

[pknopp]

Odd, I wasn't quoting you.

I get called "Left" all the time.

I argued for UHC. How would you define that position?

 

[Anathema]

For many, healthcare is something they can't control. As a side note: cosmetic surgery, electives, abortion (except for certain conditions), none of those should ever be covered by UHC.

I have many medical issues, and have for my entire life. I deal with them as best as I can with the coverage my employer offers. That’s just life.

You would be okay with the owner of the cure selling for whatever price he deemed "fair"?
I guess I look at "life" differently than you and possibly others. We have one life, one and done

I would be fine with whatever the owner decided to do with it. I do not see life in general as a terribly valuable commodity. A proper life may have value, but those are few and far between. I also don’t believe we have only one life to live.

As a society, why can't life have a greater value than the value we place on our political ideology? Shouldn't the quality of our life, when in danger and not self inflicted, aided by the miracle of modern medicine?

I believe the value in life is in its innocence or in living it properly. The first lasts only a short period and few are able to do the second at all.

 

[Curried Goats]

So you give Obama/Pelosi/dems a pass for lying about what it would do? They lied about it non stop, and people like you defended them and argued for it. It was nothing more than them lining the pockets of their donors and themselves, and the left falls for it and defends it every single time.

Where do you see me defending their lies or giving them a pass? I take all rhetoric with a grain of salt and so should everyone. Politicians lie, that shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone.