Are "Hate Crime" Laws Constitutional?

[Redfish]

That's exactly what we've been saying. You are giving added value to a group of people which is immoral and wrong. Our federal or state government should not be assigning value to people, people should all be treated the same by governments.

And again, if harsher penalties equal more deterrent, why not give that exact same protection to everybody? After all, if you get an extra five years for a felony assault, your precious little groups would still be included. Their attackers would still get that extra five years, and so would everybody else.

Because the circumstances of those other felons don't call for an additional 5 years

So you want to punish people for what they were thinking rather than what they did?

I broke into a guys house once and beat the hell out of him for threatening me. I could have done up to ten years but probably would have done less than 5 because of the circumstances.

If I did it cause he was gay or black I woulda shoulda got more time yes.

Ok, back to the basic question. Why should it matter if he was gay or black? You beat the hell out of another human being. Would it be a lesser crime if he was white and straight?

I didn't beat him up BECAUSE he was straight or white. If I did that would be a hate crime.

I'll tell you what wouldn't be a hate crime. You see a bunch of gays and you call them names and they whip your ass. They'd still be guilty of a crime but wouldn't get a hate crime slapped on them.

I think you all get it at this point. If you don't like them do away with them.

I have a theory and I'm going to test it out on this issue. I think every issue we talked about every issue is planted in our minds by the media whether you want to call it liberal or I want to call it corporate media I believe it tells us what the issues they want us talking about. I bet the Republicans on capital hill are going to try to do away with hate crimes.

Because this group needs to be protected constitutionally. The hate crime committers.

This issue isn't even on my top 20

You still don't get it and I doubt that you ever will. So if a bunch of gays whip my ass its not a hate crime (even though they may hate straights) while if a bunch of straights whip a gay guys ass (even though they may have no issue with gays) its a hate crime.

You are trying to punish people for what you think they may be thinking when they commit a crime.

If that is the way we want our laws to read, then it should be a crime to hate anyone for his/her race, sexual orientation, ethnicity, etc. Even if the hater has committed no physical crime.

You libs want government mandated thought control and punishment for non-conforming thoughts.

Why cant you admit to your real agenda?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

That's exactly what we've been saying. You are giving added value to a group of people which is immoral and wrong. Our federal or state government should not be assigning value to people, people should all be treated the same by governments.

And again, if harsher penalties equal more deterrent, why not give that exact same protection to everybody? After all, if you get an extra five years for a felony assault, your precious little groups would still be included. Their attackers would still get that extra five years, and so would everybody else.

Because the circumstances of those other felons don't call for an additional 5 years

So you want to punish people for what they were thinking rather than what they did?

I broke into a guys house once and beat the hell out of him for threatening me. I could have done up to ten years but probably would have done less than 5 because of the circumstances.

If I did it cause he was gay or black I woulda shoulda got more time yes.

Ok, back to the basic question. Why should it matter if he was gay or black? You beat the hell out of another human being. Would it be a lesser crime if he was white and straight?

I didn't beat him up BECAUSE he was straight or white. If I did that would be a hate crime.

I'll tell you what wouldn't be a hate crime. You see a bunch of gays and you call them names and they whip your ass. They'd still be guilty of a crime but wouldn't get a hate crime slapped on them.

I think you all get it at this point. If you don't like them do away with them.

I have a theory and I'm going to test it out on this issue. I think every issue we talked about every issue is planted in our minds by the media whether you want to call it liberal or I want to call it corporate media I believe it tells us what the issues they want us talking about. I bet the Republicans on capital hill are going to try to do away with hate crimes.

Because this group needs to be protected constitutionally. The hate crime committers.

This issue isn't even on my top 20

That depends on what kind of Republicans we end up with. If we end up with establishment, nothing much would change. If we ended up with conservatives, yes, they might try to get rid of hate crimes; not because they want to protect offenders, but the conservative belief has always been to treat everybody the same regardless of "whatever." No special privileges for anybody and no set backs for anybody. Just everybody live by the same laws and taxes.

 

[Redfish]

Please show me some people who've been wronged by hate crime charges. If I'm wrong I'll admit it.

the bakers who were fined for not baking a gay wedding cake.

 

[Wildman]

after 398 posts, i gotta jump in here,

Are "Hate Crime" Laws Constitutional?

NO!!

so i gotta ask.., has anyone heard of or known of a "Love Crime" ??

 

[Redfish]

Because the circumstances of those other felons don't call for an additional 5 years

So you want to punish people for what they were thinking rather than what they did?

I broke into a guys house once and beat the hell out of him for threatening me. I could have done up to ten years but probably would have done less than 5 because of the circumstances.

If I did it cause he was gay or black I woulda shoulda got more time yes.

Ok, back to the basic question. Why should it matter if he was gay or black? You beat the hell out of another human being. Would it be a lesser crime if he was white and straight?

I didn't beat him up BECAUSE he was straight or white. If I did that would be a hate crime.

I'll tell you what wouldn't be a hate crime. You see a bunch of gays and you call them names and they whip your ass. They'd still be guilty of a crime but wouldn't get a hate crime slapped on them.

I think you all get it at this point. If you don't like them do away with them.

I have a theory and I'm going to test it out on this issue. I think every issue we talked about every issue is planted in our minds by the media whether you want to call it liberal or I want to call it corporate media I believe it tells us what the issues they want us talking about. I bet the Republicans on capital hill are going to try to do away with hate crimes.

Because this group needs to be protected constitutionally. The hate crime committers.

This issue isn't even on my top 20

That depends on what kind of Republicans we end up with. If we end up with establishment, nothing much would change. If we ended up with conservatives, yes, they might try to get rid of hate crimes; not because they want to protect offenders, but the conservative belief has always been to treat everybody the same regardless of "whatever." No special privileges for anybody and no set backs for anybody. Just everybody live by the same laws and taxes.

the problem liberals have with everybody being treated equally is that they know that they cannot compete on a equal basis and need special treatment.

 

[sealybobo]

Because the circumstances of those other felons don't call for an additional 5 years

So you want to punish people for what they were thinking rather than what they did?

I broke into a guys house once and beat the hell out of him for threatening me. I could have done up to ten years but probably would have done less than 5 because of the circumstances.

If I did it cause he was gay or black I woulda shoulda got more time yes.

Ok, back to the basic question. Why should it matter if he was gay or black? You beat the hell out of another human being. Would it be a lesser crime if he was white and straight?

I didn't beat him up BECAUSE he was straight or white. If I did that would be a hate crime.

I'll tell you what wouldn't be a hate crime. You see a bunch of gays and you call them names and they whip your ass. They'd still be guilty of a crime but wouldn't get a hate crime slapped on them.

I think you all get it at this point. If you don't like them do away with them.

I have a theory and I'm going to test it out on this issue. I think every issue we talked about every issue is planted in our minds by the media whether you want to call it liberal or I want to call it corporate media I believe it tells us what the issues they want us talking about. I bet the Republicans on capital hill are going to try to do away with hate crimes.

Because this group needs to be protected constitutionally. The hate crime committers.

This issue isn't even on my top 20

Good lord, you are an idiot.

You haven't convinced me one bit they are wrong. Give me some examples of people who've been wronged by hate crime legislation.

And how did hate crime legislation get passed? Are you a constitutional scholar? Then maybe you're the one being an idiot.

 

[sealybobo]

after 398 posts, i gotta jump in here,

Are "Hate Crime" Laws Constitutional?

NO!!

so i gotta ask.., has anyone heard of or known of a "Love Crime" ??

Crimes of passion? Yes

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Because the circumstances of those other felons don't call for an additional 5 years

So you want to punish people for what they were thinking rather than what they did?

I broke into a guys house once and beat the hell out of him for threatening me. I could have done up to ten years but probably would have done less than 5 because of the circumstances.

If I did it cause he was gay or black I woulda shoulda got more time yes.

Ok, back to the basic question. Why should it matter if he was gay or black? You beat the hell out of another human being. Would it be a lesser crime if he was white and straight?

I didn't beat him up BECAUSE he was straight or white. If I did that would be a hate crime.

I'll tell you what wouldn't be a hate crime. You see a bunch of gays and you call them names and they whip your ass. They'd still be guilty of a crime but wouldn't get a hate crime slapped on them.

I think you all get it at this point. If you don't like them do away with them.

I have a theory and I'm going to test it out on this issue. I think every issue we talked about every issue is planted in our minds by the media whether you want to call it liberal or I want to call it corporate media I believe it tells us what the issues they want us talking about. I bet the Republicans on capital hill are going to try to do away with hate crimes.

Because this group needs to be protected constitutionally. The hate crime committers.

This issue isn't even on my top 20

You still don't get it and I doubt that you ever will. So if a bunch of gays whip my ass its not a hate crime (even though they may hate straights) while if a bunch of straights whip a gay guys ass (even though they may have no issue with gays) its a hate crime.

You are trying to punish people for what you think they may be thinking when they commit a crime.

If that is the way we want our laws to read, then it should be a crime to hate anyone for his/her race, sexual orientation, ethnicity, etc. Even if the hater has committed no physical crime.

You libs want government mandated thought control and punishment for non-conforming thoughts.

Why cant you admit to your real agenda?

That's it exactly.

I go out and shoot a group of gays--let's say three of them, but I make no mention as to why, that's okay from a liberal perspective because I didn't say anything about it. I get treated the same as if I ran over three bald guys or three skin heads. However, if I did the same thing but was yelling "QUEER, QUEER, QUEER" that's entirely different. Because I yelled those words, I should now get the death penalty instead of life in prison.

 

[sealybobo]

after 398 posts, i gotta jump in here,

Are "Hate Crime" Laws Constitutional?

NO!!

so i gotta ask.., has anyone heard of or known of a "Love Crime" ??

Crimes of passion? Yes

So far these people haven't convinced me hate crimes are wrong or unconstitutional

 

[Desperado]

We already have laws.
So does it matter what the motive was for breaking that law?
If you vandalize something there is already a law against that.
If you vandalize something because it belongs to a group that you don't like why should that punishment be made worse?
It is getting penalized twice once for breaking the law, the second time because it was against a protected group.
Which brings up the next point, all people are created equal, and thus all laws should be enforced equally.
There should be no protected groups.

There ought to be no suspect or protected groups, in a perfect world.

But the world is far from perfect, there are far too many who seek to disadvantage through force of law various classes of persons for no other reason than who they are – the unwarranted hatred directed at Muslim Americans is another recent, sad example of that.

As a consequence, it's perfectly appropriate and Constitutional to recognize suspect and protected classes of persons to protect their civil rights from attack by the states simply because of race, religion, or national origin.

And again, it's also perfectly appropriate and Constitutional to use enhanced sentencing in cases where race, religion, or national origin was a factor contributing to an act of criminal violence against a person for no other reason than who that person is.

Absolutely False, there is nothing in the Constitution that permits or endorses putting one group above another. If anything the Constitution prohibits exactly that.

 

[ChrisL]

So you want to punish people for what they were thinking rather than what they did?

I broke into a guys house once and beat the hell out of him for threatening me. I could have done up to ten years but probably would have done less than 5 because of the circumstances.

If I did it cause he was gay or black I woulda shoulda got more time yes.

Ok, back to the basic question. Why should it matter if he was gay or black? You beat the hell out of another human being. Would it be a lesser crime if he was white and straight?

I didn't beat him up BECAUSE he was straight or white. If I did that would be a hate crime.

I'll tell you what wouldn't be a hate crime. You see a bunch of gays and you call them names and they whip your ass. They'd still be guilty of a crime but wouldn't get a hate crime slapped on them.

I think you all get it at this point. If you don't like them do away with them.

I have a theory and I'm going to test it out on this issue. I think every issue we talked about every issue is planted in our minds by the media whether you want to call it liberal or I want to call it corporate media I believe it tells us what the issues they want us talking about. I bet the Republicans on capital hill are going to try to do away with hate crimes.

Because this group needs to be protected constitutionally. The hate crime committers.

This issue isn't even on my top 20

Good lord, you are an idiot.

You haven't convinced me one bit they are wrong. Give me some examples of people who've been wronged by hate crime legislation.

And how did hate crime legislation get passed? Are you a constitutional scholar? Then maybe you're the one being an idiot.

I already posted one pages ago! Didn't you read it?

 

[ChrisL]

So you want to punish people for what they were thinking rather than what they did?

I broke into a guys house once and beat the hell out of him for threatening me. I could have done up to ten years but probably would have done less than 5 because of the circumstances.

If I did it cause he was gay or black I woulda shoulda got more time yes.

Ok, back to the basic question. Why should it matter if he was gay or black? You beat the hell out of another human being. Would it be a lesser crime if he was white and straight?

I didn't beat him up BECAUSE he was straight or white. If I did that would be a hate crime.

I'll tell you what wouldn't be a hate crime. You see a bunch of gays and you call them names and they whip your ass. They'd still be guilty of a crime but wouldn't get a hate crime slapped on them.

I think you all get it at this point. If you don't like them do away with them.

I have a theory and I'm going to test it out on this issue. I think every issue we talked about every issue is planted in our minds by the media whether you want to call it liberal or I want to call it corporate media I believe it tells us what the issues they want us talking about. I bet the Republicans on capital hill are going to try to do away with hate crimes.

Because this group needs to be protected constitutionally. The hate crime committers.

This issue isn't even on my top 20

You still don't get it and I doubt that you ever will. So if a bunch of gays whip my ass its not a hate crime (even though they may hate straights) while if a bunch of straights whip a gay guys ass (even though they may have no issue with gays) its a hate crime.

You are trying to punish people for what you think they may be thinking when they commit a crime.

If that is the way we want our laws to read, then it should be a crime to hate anyone for his/her race, sexual orientation, ethnicity, etc. Even if the hater has committed no physical crime.

You libs want government mandated thought control and punishment for non-conforming thoughts.

Why cant you admit to your real agenda?

That's it exactly.

I go out and shoot a group of gays--let's say three of them, but I make no mention as to why, that's okay from a liberal perspective because I didn't say anything about it. I get treated the same as if I ran over three bald guys or three skin heads. However, if I did the same thing but was yelling "QUEER, QUEER, QUEER" that's entirely different. Because I yelled those words, I should now get the death penalty instead of life in prison.

Somebody needs to do something about this out of control, far reaching government. They are getting way too big for their britches and need a reality slap.

 

[Redfish]

after 398 posts, i gotta jump in here,

Are "Hate Crime" Laws Constitutional?

NO!!

so i gotta ask.., has anyone heard of or known of a "Love Crime" ??

Crimes of passion? Yes

So far these people haven't convinced me hate crimes are wrong or unconstitutional

the only answer for that is that you are too stupid to understand.

 

[Redfish]

I broke into a guys house once and beat the hell out of him for threatening me. I could have done up to ten years but probably would have done less than 5 because of the circumstances.

If I did it cause he was gay or black I woulda shoulda got more time yes.

Ok, back to the basic question. Why should it matter if he was gay or black? You beat the hell out of another human being. Would it be a lesser crime if he was white and straight?

I didn't beat him up BECAUSE he was straight or white. If I did that would be a hate crime.

I'll tell you what wouldn't be a hate crime. You see a bunch of gays and you call them names and they whip your ass. They'd still be guilty of a crime but wouldn't get a hate crime slapped on them.

I think you all get it at this point. If you don't like them do away with them.

I have a theory and I'm going to test it out on this issue. I think every issue we talked about every issue is planted in our minds by the media whether you want to call it liberal or I want to call it corporate media I believe it tells us what the issues they want us talking about. I bet the Republicans on capital hill are going to try to do away with hate crimes.

Because this group needs to be protected constitutionally. The hate crime committers.

This issue isn't even on my top 20

You still don't get it and I doubt that you ever will. So if a bunch of gays whip my ass its not a hate crime (even though they may hate straights) while if a bunch of straights whip a gay guys ass (even though they may have no issue with gays) its a hate crime.

You are trying to punish people for what you think they may be thinking when they commit a crime.

If that is the way we want our laws to read, then it should be a crime to hate anyone for his/her race, sexual orientation, ethnicity, etc. Even if the hater has committed no physical crime.

You libs want government mandated thought control and punishment for non-conforming thoughts.

Why cant you admit to your real agenda?

That's it exactly.

I go out and shoot a group of gays--let's say three of them, but I make no mention as to why, that's okay from a liberal perspective because I didn't say anything about it. I get treated the same as if I ran over three bald guys or three skin heads. However, if I did the same thing but was yelling "QUEER, QUEER, QUEER" that's entirely different. Because I yelled those words, I should now get the death penalty instead of life in prison.

Somebody needs to do something about this out of control, far reaching government. They are getting way too big for their britches and need a reality slap.

Trump for president

 

[Desperado]

Because the circumstances of those other felons don't call for an additional 5 years

So you want to punish people for what they were thinking rather than what they did?

I broke into a guys house once and beat the hell out of him for threatening me. I could have done up to ten years but probably would have done less than 5 because of the circumstances.

If I did it cause he was gay or black I woulda shoulda got more time yes.

Ok, back to the basic question. Why should it matter if he was gay or black? You beat the hell out of another human being. Would it be a lesser crime if he was white and straight?

I didn't beat him up BECAUSE he was straight or white. If I did that would be a hate crime.

I'll tell you what wouldn't be a hate crime. You see a bunch of gays and you call them names and they whip your ass. They'd still be guilty of a crime but wouldn't get a hate crime slapped on them.

I think you all get it at this point. If you don't like them do away with them.

I have a theory and I'm going to test it out on this issue. I think every issue we talked about every issue is planted in our minds by the media whether you want to call it liberal or I want to call it corporate media I believe it tells us what the issues they want us talking about. I bet the Republicans on capital hill are going to try to do away with hate crimes.

Because this group needs to be protected constitutionally. The hate crime committers.

This issue isn't even on my top 20

That depends on what kind of Republicans we end up with. If we end up with establishment, nothing much would change. If we ended up with conservatives, yes, they might try to get rid of hate crimes; not because they want to protect offenders, but the conservative belief has always been to treat everybody the same regardless of "whatever." No special privileges for anybody and no set backs for anybody. Just everybody live by the same laws and taxes.

No special privileges for anybody and no set backs for anybody. Just everybody live by the same laws and taxes
You say that like it is a bad thing. This is exactly what this country needs to get back to the basic principals of the Constitution

 

[ChrisL]

after 398 posts, i gotta jump in here,

Are "Hate Crime" Laws Constitutional?

NO!!

so i gotta ask.., has anyone heard of or known of a "Love Crime" ??

Crimes of passion? Yes

So far these people haven't convinced me hate crimes are wrong or unconstitutional

A crime of passion is usually treated LESS severe than a premeditated crime. WHAT is your point? We have 3 levels of homicide, which are based upon whether the murder was planned or "spontaneous." This doesn't have anything to do with your feelings or your particular thoughts of the victim. Nor should it. It doesn't make a difference if you kill someone because that person is gay or if you kill someone because you have something against that particular person. One is NOT worse than the other one.

 

[ChrisL]

Ok, back to the basic question. Why should it matter if he was gay or black? You beat the hell out of another human being. Would it be a lesser crime if he was white and straight?

I didn't beat him up BECAUSE he was straight or white. If I did that would be a hate crime.

I'll tell you what wouldn't be a hate crime. You see a bunch of gays and you call them names and they whip your ass. They'd still be guilty of a crime but wouldn't get a hate crime slapped on them.

I think you all get it at this point. If you don't like them do away with them.

I have a theory and I'm going to test it out on this issue. I think every issue we talked about every issue is planted in our minds by the media whether you want to call it liberal or I want to call it corporate media I believe it tells us what the issues they want us talking about. I bet the Republicans on capital hill are going to try to do away with hate crimes.

Because this group needs to be protected constitutionally. The hate crime committers.

This issue isn't even on my top 20

You still don't get it and I doubt that you ever will. So if a bunch of gays whip my ass its not a hate crime (even though they may hate straights) while if a bunch of straights whip a gay guys ass (even though they may have no issue with gays) its a hate crime.

You are trying to punish people for what you think they may be thinking when they commit a crime.

If that is the way we want our laws to read, then it should be a crime to hate anyone for his/her race, sexual orientation, ethnicity, etc. Even if the hater has committed no physical crime.

You libs want government mandated thought control and punishment for non-conforming thoughts.

Why cant you admit to your real agenda?

That's it exactly.

I go out and shoot a group of gays--let's say three of them, but I make no mention as to why, that's okay from a liberal perspective because I didn't say anything about it. I get treated the same as if I ran over three bald guys or three skin heads. However, if I did the same thing but was yelling "QUEER, QUEER, QUEER" that's entirely different. Because I yelled those words, I should now get the death penalty instead of life in prison.

Somebody needs to do something about this out of control, far reaching government. They are getting way too big for their britches and need a reality slap.

Trump for president

Sorry, I wouldn't trust that one as far as I could throw him, which isn't very far if at all. While we need someone "tough." It is not Donald Trump. He is not "tough." He is a bully and very childish.

 

[sealybobo]

Please show me some people who've been wronged by hate crime charges. If I'm wrong I'll admit it.

the bakers who were fined for not baking a gay wedding cake.

Is that what were talking about or violent crimes. I see your point but that's not the crimes I'm talking about. Felony hate crimes.
We had to protect blacks in the 60s today we have to protect gays too. Maybe if you stop picking on minorities.

Crack was unfair to blacks so hate crimes are unfair to whites because typically it'll be one of us getting that charge.

Chrisl doesn't like it because no one is targeting little white chicks? What's the difference between aggravated assault and rape? It's all bad. Why not sentence them equally?

 

[sealybobo]

after 398 posts, i gotta jump in here,

Are "Hate Crime" Laws Constitutional?

NO!!

so i gotta ask.., has anyone heard of or known of a "Love Crime" ??

Crimes of passion? Yes

So far these people haven't convinced me hate crimes are wrong or unconstitutional

A crime of passion is usually treated LESS severe than a premeditated crime. WHAT is your point? We have 3 levels of homicide, which are based upon whether the murder was planned or "spontaneous." This doesn't have anything to do with your feelings or your particular thoughts of the victim. Nor should it. It doesn't make a difference if you kill someone because that person is gay or if you kill someone because you have something against that particular person. One is NOT worse than the other one.

If a guy goes out and gets drunk and drugged up and beats some guy up bad on the way home, or he rapes a woman, are both equal? He caused physical bodily harm on both people

 

[sealybobo]

So you want to punish people for what they were thinking rather than what they did?

I broke into a guys house once and beat the hell out of him for threatening me. I could have done up to ten years but probably would have done less than 5 because of the circumstances.

If I did it cause he was gay or black I woulda shoulda got more time yes.

Ok, back to the basic question. Why should it matter if he was gay or black? You beat the hell out of another human being. Would it be a lesser crime if he was white and straight?

I didn't beat him up BECAUSE he was straight or white. If I did that would be a hate crime.

I'll tell you what wouldn't be a hate crime. You see a bunch of gays and you call them names and they whip your ass. They'd still be guilty of a crime but wouldn't get a hate crime slapped on them.

I think you all get it at this point. If you don't like them do away with them.

I have a theory and I'm going to test it out on this issue. I think every issue we talked about every issue is planted in our minds by the media whether you want to call it liberal or I want to call it corporate media I believe it tells us what the issues they want us talking about. I bet the Republicans on capital hill are going to try to do away with hate crimes.

Because this group needs to be protected constitutionally. The hate crime committers.

This issue isn't even on my top 20

You still don't get it and I doubt that you ever will. So if a bunch of gays whip my ass its not a hate crime (even though they may hate straights) while if a bunch of straights whip a gay guys ass (even though they may have no issue with gays) its a hate crime.

You are trying to punish people for what you think they may be thinking when they commit a crime.

If that is the way we want our laws to read, then it should be a crime to hate anyone for his/her race, sexual orientation, ethnicity, etc. Even if the hater has committed no physical crime.

You libs want government mandated thought control and punishment for non-conforming thoughts.

Why cant you admit to your real agenda?

That's it exactly.

I go out and shoot a group of gays--let's say three of them, but I make no mention as to why, that's okay from a liberal perspective because I didn't say anything about it. I get treated the same as if I ran over three bald guys or three skin heads. However, if I did the same thing but was yelling "QUEER, QUEER, QUEER" that's entirely different. Because I yelled those words, I should now get the death penalty instead of life in prison.

If there's no evidence its a hate crime then its not an issue.