Are "Hate Crime" Laws Constitutional?

[ChrisL]

Is there evidence that hate crime laws act as a deterrent?

Ask yourself if you were an anti semetic, would you think twice before beating up a guy just because he's wearing a yamaka? I would. It'd make me mad Jews were protected by such a law. Id think they were taking over the country and I'd join the kkk

Unlike yourself I wouldn't beat someone up unless it was self defense. You see, YOU need to be micro-managed by the state, I don't. People like you project your shortcomings onto everyone and think we all suffer from the same malady.

Try legislating millions of people like me.

People like you are ruining the country. You live in a sea of relativism where there are no absolutes, and you want the state to play god and examine our souls. Men can't actually do that in reality so they pick and choose people to make an example of, like any tyranny.

Hey, I do see your points. Like why aren't blacks who attack whites not charged with hate crimes?

No, the point is, the government is overreaching in trying to punish people beyond the normal punishment doled out because of WHAT they were thinking.

 

[ChrisL]

Is that what were talking about or violent crimes. I see your point but that's not the crimes I'm talking about. Felony hate crimes.
We had to protect blacks in the 60s today we have to protect gays too. Maybe if you stop picking on minorities.

Crack was unfair to blacks so hate crimes are unfair to whites because typically it'll be one of us getting that charge.

Chrisl doesn't like it because no one is targeting little white chicks? What's the difference between aggravated assault and rape? It's all bad. Why not sentence them equally?

Those are different LEVELS of crime, you dope!

Why? The thought? He might have broken that guys jaw, gave him concussion and made that man not feel safe anymore. Bill Cosby did much less. Seems you want to be a protected group and thoughts matter.

What was bill Cosby thinking? For example

The question in the Cosby case is what was the woman thinking. She went to his hotel room, took pills and drank wine that he offered her. What exactly did she think was going to happen? Did she think they were going to discuss world history?

I told a conservative that my parents said the same thing and that person said my parents would be wrong.

Anyways, not the point

Cosby was thinking "I want to screw that woman" Should he be punished for thinking that?

The woman was thinking "Cosby is nice, I'll go to his room, take some unknown pills, drink some wine, and we'll just talk"

Should she be punished for being stupid?

On this line of thought, if a man went into another man's room drunk and was raped by that man . . . then what would you say? Is it only women who have to be "careful" on who they drink around?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So you want to punish people for what they were thinking rather than what they did?

I broke into a guys house once and beat the hell out of him for threatening me. I could have done up to ten years but probably would have done less than 5 because of the circumstances.

If I did it cause he was gay or black I woulda shoulda got more time yes.

Ok, back to the basic question. Why should it matter if he was gay or black? You beat the hell out of another human being. Would it be a lesser crime if he was white and straight?

I didn't beat him up BECAUSE he was straight or white. If I did that would be a hate crime.

I'll tell you what wouldn't be a hate crime. You see a bunch of gays and you call them names and they whip your ass. They'd still be guilty of a crime but wouldn't get a hate crime slapped on them.

I think you all get it at this point. If you don't like them do away with them.

I have a theory and I'm going to test it out on this issue. I think every issue we talked about every issue is planted in our minds by the media whether you want to call it liberal or I want to call it corporate media I believe it tells us what the issues they want us talking about. I bet the Republicans on capital hill are going to try to do away with hate crimes.

Because this group needs to be protected constitutionally. The hate crime committers.

This issue isn't even on my top 20

That depends on what kind of Republicans we end up with. If we end up with establishment, nothing much would change. If we ended up with conservatives, yes, they might try to get rid of hate crimes; not because they want to protect offenders, but the conservative belief has always been to treat everybody the same regardless of "whatever." No special privileges for anybody and no set backs for anybody. Just everybody live by the same laws and taxes.

No special privileges for anybody and no set backs for anybody. Just everybody live by the same laws and taxes
You say that like it is a bad thing. This is exactly what this country needs to get back to the basic principals of the Constitution

Agreed, but we need to fight off these "feelings first" crowds before we can ever get back to that.

 

[Centinel]

after 398 posts, i gotta jump in here,

Are "Hate Crime" Laws Constitutional?

NO!!

so i gotta ask.., has anyone heard of or known of a "Love Crime" ??

Of course they're not constitutional. Congress has only the power "To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;" It was never given power to define and punish crimes inside the boundaries of the several states.

 

[sealybobo]

Please show me some people who've been wronged by hate crime charges. If I'm wrong I'll admit it.

the bakers who were fined for not baking a gay wedding cake.

Is that what were talking about or violent crimes. I see your point but that's not the crimes I'm talking about. Felony hate crimes.
We had to protect blacks in the 60s today we have to protect gays too. Maybe if you stop picking on minorities.

Crack was unfair to blacks so hate crimes are unfair to whites because typically it'll be one of us getting that charge.

Chrisl doesn't like it because no one is targeting little white chicks? What's the difference between aggravated assault and rape? It's all bad. Why not sentence them equally?

Those are different LEVELS of crime, you dope!

I think someone going out to kill a minority or beat up a person in another group BECAUSE they are, and this can be proven, I want that evidence entered as evidence and I think the motives or thoughts do matter.

Let's use bill Cosby. The sentence for what he did is up to 10 years but most serve 22-36 months. Who gets ten years? Why not give everyone the same? Who is to judge such a thing? Oh I know, a judge!

 

[Redfish]

I didn't beat him up BECAUSE he was straight or white. If I did that would be a hate crime.

I'll tell you what wouldn't be a hate crime. You see a bunch of gays and you call them names and they whip your ass. They'd still be guilty of a crime but wouldn't get a hate crime slapped on them.

I think you all get it at this point. If you don't like them do away with them.

I have a theory and I'm going to test it out on this issue. I think every issue we talked about every issue is planted in our minds by the media whether you want to call it liberal or I want to call it corporate media I believe it tells us what the issues they want us talking about. I bet the Republicans on capital hill are going to try to do away with hate crimes.

Because this group needs to be protected constitutionally. The hate crime committers.

This issue isn't even on my top 20

You still don't get it and I doubt that you ever will. So if a bunch of gays whip my ass its not a hate crime (even though they may hate straights) while if a bunch of straights whip a gay guys ass (even though they may have no issue with gays) its a hate crime.

You are trying to punish people for what you think they may be thinking when they commit a crime.

If that is the way we want our laws to read, then it should be a crime to hate anyone for his/her race, sexual orientation, ethnicity, etc. Even if the hater has committed no physical crime.

You libs want government mandated thought control and punishment for non-conforming thoughts.

Why cant you admit to your real agenda?

That's it exactly.

I go out and shoot a group of gays--let's say three of them, but I make no mention as to why, that's okay from a liberal perspective because I didn't say anything about it. I get treated the same as if I ran over three bald guys or three skin heads. However, if I did the same thing but was yelling "QUEER, QUEER, QUEER" that's entirely different. Because I yelled those words, I should now get the death penalty instead of life in prison.

Somebody needs to do something about this out of control, far reaching government. They are getting way too big for their britches and need a reality slap.

Trump for president

Sorry, I wouldn't trust that one as far as I could throw him, which isn't very far if at all. While we need someone "tough." It is not Donald Trump. He is not "tough." He is a bully and very childish.

Its likely to be Trump or the hildebeast. How will you vote?

 

[SwimExpert]

Thank you for admitting that our court system explores the hearts and minds of perpetrators.

Yes they do, but our legislatures should not.

So you want to strip murder statutes of phrases like "malice aforethought" or "deliberately with intent to cause harm"?

I don't care because they apply to all people, not to selected groups.

Hate crime laws apply to all people. You keep trying to paint a picture otherwise, but at this point you're simply being dishonest in doing so.

That's not true because every assault or murder usually involves hate of some kind. You want to support who you hate and not hate in general.

You think it's proper to imprison or execute people based on their words and less of their crime, because that's the only way you can prove hate: words either written or said.

I don't think we should be giving extra penalties for words. It's a ridiculous concept. What's next, giving people harsher sentences because of who they were staring at during the crime?

If somebody kills a member of my family, I don't care why, all I care about is having that person executed as quickly as possible. My goal is to see that person suffer as much as humanly possible.

 

[Redfish]

after 398 posts, i gotta jump in here,

Are "Hate Crime" Laws Constitutional?

NO!!

so i gotta ask.., has anyone heard of or known of a "Love Crime" ??

Crimes of passion? Yes

So far these people haven't convinced me hate crimes are wrong or unconstitutional

A crime of passion is usually treated LESS severe than a premeditated crime. WHAT is your point? We have 3 levels of homicide, which are based upon whether the murder was planned or "spontaneous." This doesn't have anything to do with your feelings or your particular thoughts of the victim. Nor should it. It doesn't make a difference if you kill someone because that person is gay or if you kill someone because you have something against that particular person. One is NOT worse than the other one.

If a guy goes out and gets drunk and drugged up and beats some guy up bad on the way home, or he rapes a woman, are both equal? He caused physical bodily harm on both people

assault and rape are different crimes. You want to the punishment to be greater if he did the assault or rape because he didn't like the race of the victim.

 

[ChrisL]

Please show me some people who've been wronged by hate crime charges. If I'm wrong I'll admit it.

the bakers who were fined for not baking a gay wedding cake.

Is that what were talking about or violent crimes. I see your point but that's not the crimes I'm talking about. Felony hate crimes.
We had to protect blacks in the 60s today we have to protect gays too. Maybe if you stop picking on minorities.

Crack was unfair to blacks so hate crimes are unfair to whites because typically it'll be one of us getting that charge.

Chrisl doesn't like it because no one is targeting little white chicks? What's the difference between aggravated assault and rape? It's all bad. Why not sentence them equally?

Those are different LEVELS of crime, you dope!

I think someone going out to kill a minority or beat up a person in another group BECAUSE they are, and this can be proven, I want that evidence entered as evidence and I think the motives or thoughts do matter.

Let's use bill Cosby. The sentence for what he did is up to 10 years but most serve 22-36 months. Who gets ten years? Why not give everyone the same? Who is to judge such a thing? Oh I know, a judge!

You get sentenced for EACH count. God, stop smoking the ganja if you want to do something other than laugh at stupid shit.

 

[sealybobo]

Please show me some people who've been wronged by hate crime charges. If I'm wrong I'll admit it.

the bakers who were fined for not baking a gay wedding cake.

Is that what were talking about or violent crimes. I see your point but that's not the crimes I'm talking about. Felony hate crimes.
We had to protect blacks in the 60s today we have to protect gays too. Maybe if you stop picking on minorities.

Crack was unfair to blacks so hate crimes are unfair to whites because typically it'll be one of us getting that charge.

Chrisl doesn't like it because no one is targeting little white chicks? What's the difference between aggravated assault and rape? It's all bad. Why not sentence them equally?

Are you sure you aren't smoking crack?

Just pot

figures, you seem to have many damaged brain cells, and probably diseased lungs. Enjoy the pot, idiot.

Thanks a lot asshole. I'm sure the people around you are dancing in joy at your presence.

 

[Redfish]

Those are different LEVELS of crime, you dope!

Why? The thought? He might have broken that guys jaw, gave him concussion and made that man not feel safe anymore. Bill Cosby did much less. Seems you want to be a protected group and thoughts matter.

What was bill Cosby thinking? For example

The question in the Cosby case is what was the woman thinking. She went to his hotel room, took pills and drank wine that he offered her. What exactly did she think was going to happen? Did she think they were going to discuss world history?

I told a conservative that my parents said the same thing and that person said my parents would be wrong.

Anyways, not the point

Cosby was thinking "I want to screw that woman" Should he be punished for thinking that?

The woman was thinking "Cosby is nice, I'll go to his room, take some unknown pills, drink some wine, and we'll just talk"

Should she be punished for being stupid?

On this line of thought, if a man went into another man's room drunk and was raped by that man . . . then what would you say? Is it only women who have to be "careful" on who they drink around?

of course not. My only point was that alleged victim should have known what Cosby had in mind.

 

[ChrisL]

You still don't get it and I doubt that you ever will. So if a bunch of gays whip my ass its not a hate crime (even though they may hate straights) while if a bunch of straights whip a gay guys ass (even though they may have no issue with gays) its a hate crime.

You are trying to punish people for what you think they may be thinking when they commit a crime.

If that is the way we want our laws to read, then it should be a crime to hate anyone for his/her race, sexual orientation, ethnicity, etc. Even if the hater has committed no physical crime.

You libs want government mandated thought control and punishment for non-conforming thoughts.

Why cant you admit to your real agenda?

That's it exactly.

I go out and shoot a group of gays--let's say three of them, but I make no mention as to why, that's okay from a liberal perspective because I didn't say anything about it. I get treated the same as if I ran over three bald guys or three skin heads. However, if I did the same thing but was yelling "QUEER, QUEER, QUEER" that's entirely different. Because I yelled those words, I should now get the death penalty instead of life in prison.

Somebody needs to do something about this out of control, far reaching government. They are getting way too big for their britches and need a reality slap.

Trump for president

Sorry, I wouldn't trust that one as far as I could throw him, which isn't very far if at all. While we need someone "tough." It is not Donald Trump. He is not "tough." He is a bully and very childish.

Its likely to be Trump or the hildebeast. How will you vote?

I'm voting for a third party candidate, though I haven't fully decided on which one.

 

[Redfish]

the bakers who were fined for not baking a gay wedding cake.

Is that what were talking about or violent crimes. I see your point but that's not the crimes I'm talking about. Felony hate crimes.
We had to protect blacks in the 60s today we have to protect gays too. Maybe if you stop picking on minorities.

Crack was unfair to blacks so hate crimes are unfair to whites because typically it'll be one of us getting that charge.

Chrisl doesn't like it because no one is targeting little white chicks? What's the difference between aggravated assault and rape? It's all bad. Why not sentence them equally?

Are you sure you aren't smoking crack?

Just pot

figures, you seem to have many damaged brain cells, and probably diseased lungs. Enjoy the pot, idiot.

Thanks a lot asshole. I'm sure the people around you are dancing in joy at your presence.

my friends and family enjoy being around me. What does that have to do with you killing yourself with pot?

Now, if you have a serious disease and you use it to manage pain, I'm in your corner 100%. But if you are killing yourself for a temporary high, you are an idiot.

 

[sealybobo]

Please show me some people who've been wronged by hate crime charges. If I'm wrong I'll admit it.

the bakers who were fined for not baking a gay wedding cake.

Is that what were talking about or violent crimes. I see your point but that's not the crimes I'm talking about. Felony hate crimes.
We had to protect blacks in the 60s today we have to protect gays too. Maybe if you stop picking on minorities.

Crack was unfair to blacks so hate crimes are unfair to whites because typically it'll be one of us getting that charge.

Chrisl doesn't like it because no one is targeting little white chicks? What's the difference between aggravated assault and rape? It's all bad. Why not sentence them equally?

Those are different LEVELS of crime, you dope!

I think someone going out to kill a minority or beat up a person in another group BECAUSE they are, and this can be proven, I want that evidence entered as evidence and I think the motives or thoughts do matter.

Let's use bill Cosby. The sentence for what he did is up to 10 years but most serve 22-36 months. Who gets ten years? Why not give everyone the same? Who is to judge such a thing? Oh I know, a judge!

You get sentenced for EACH count. God, stop smoking the ganja if you want to do something other than laugh at stupid shit.

Why or how did hate crime laws get passed then? Oh yea, the over reaching government. I forgot your ultimate position on this. Well then get Paul Ryan and McConnell to pass a bill repealing hate crime laws or get rubio to do it if he beats hillary or get the alito Roberts supremes rule on it. I don't give a fuck!

 

[Redfish]

That's it exactly.

I go out and shoot a group of gays--let's say three of them, but I make no mention as to why, that's okay from a liberal perspective because I didn't say anything about it. I get treated the same as if I ran over three bald guys or three skin heads. However, if I did the same thing but was yelling "QUEER, QUEER, QUEER" that's entirely different. Because I yelled those words, I should now get the death penalty instead of life in prison.

Somebody needs to do something about this out of control, far reaching government. They are getting way too big for their britches and need a reality slap.

Trump for president

Sorry, I wouldn't trust that one as far as I could throw him, which isn't very far if at all. While we need someone "tough." It is not Donald Trump. He is not "tough." He is a bully and very childish.

Its likely to be Trump or the hildebeast. How will you vote?

I'm voting for a third party candidate, though I haven't fully decided on which one.

A vote for a third party is a vote for Hillary, just be aware of that.

 

[sealybobo]

That's it exactly.

I go out and shoot a group of gays--let's say three of them, but I make no mention as to why, that's okay from a liberal perspective because I didn't say anything about it. I get treated the same as if I ran over three bald guys or three skin heads. However, if I did the same thing but was yelling "QUEER, QUEER, QUEER" that's entirely different. Because I yelled those words, I should now get the death penalty instead of life in prison.

Somebody needs to do something about this out of control, far reaching government. They are getting way too big for their britches and need a reality slap.

Trump for president

Sorry, I wouldn't trust that one as far as I could throw him, which isn't very far if at all. While we need someone "tough." It is not Donald Trump. He is not "tough." He is a bully and very childish.

Its likely to be Trump or the hildebeast. How will you vote?

I'm voting for a third party candidate, though I haven't fully decided on which one.

I could tell.

 

[sealybobo]

Is that what were talking about or violent crimes. I see your point but that's not the crimes I'm talking about. Felony hate crimes.
We had to protect blacks in the 60s today we have to protect gays too. Maybe if you stop picking on minorities.

Crack was unfair to blacks so hate crimes are unfair to whites because typically it'll be one of us getting that charge.

Chrisl doesn't like it because no one is targeting little white chicks? What's the difference between aggravated assault and rape? It's all bad. Why not sentence them equally?

Are you sure you aren't smoking crack?

Just pot

figures, you seem to have many damaged brain cells, and probably diseased lungs. Enjoy the pot, idiot.

Thanks a lot asshole. I'm sure the people around you are dancing in joy at your presence.

my friends and family enjoy being around me. What does that have to do with you killing yourself with pot?

Now, if you have a serious disease and you use it to manage pain, I'm in your corner 100%. But if you are killing yourself for a temporary high, you are an idiot.

Guilty!

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

No Constitutional Authority for Federal Hate Crime Law Cato Liberty

I am of the opinion that so called "hate crime" laws are not constitutional and are racist by nature. They carry a grave danger with them as they are not evenly applied and are a creation of politicians pandering for votes. When the politicization of the law takes place it is a slippery slope to tyranny. Attorney General Eric Holder admitted that "hate crime" laws are racially biased. What does the board think?

Here are the views of "hate speech and intimidation" according to the ACLU

"The First Amendment to the United States Constitution protects speech no matter how offensive its content. Speech codes adopted by government-financed state colleges and universities amount to government censorship, in violation of the Constitution. And the ACLU believes that all campuses should adhere to First Amendment principles because academic freedom is a bedrock of education in a free society."

"Speech that deeply offends our morality or is hostile to our way of life warrants the same constitutional protection as other speech because the right of free speech is indivisible: When one of us is denied this right, all of us are denied. Since its founding in 1920, the ACLU has fought for the free expression of all ideas, popular or unpopular. That's the constitutional mandate."

Hate Speech on Campus

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Please show me some people who've been wronged by hate crime charges. If I'm wrong I'll admit it.

the bakers who were fined for not baking a gay wedding cake.

Is that what were talking about or violent crimes. I see your point but that's not the crimes I'm talking about. Felony hate crimes.
We had to protect blacks in the 60s today we have to protect gays too. Maybe if you stop picking on minorities.

Crack was unfair to blacks so hate crimes are unfair to whites because typically it'll be one of us getting that charge.

Chrisl doesn't like it because no one is targeting little white chicks? What's the difference between aggravated assault and rape? It's all bad. Why not sentence them equally?

Those are different LEVELS of crime, you dope!

I think someone going out to kill a minority or beat up a person in another group BECAUSE they are, and this can be proven, I want that evidence entered as evidence and I think the motives or thoughts do matter.

Let's use bill Cosby. The sentence for what he did is up to 10 years but most serve 22-36 months. Who gets ten years? Why not give everyone the same? Who is to judge such a thing? Oh I know, a judge!

Yes, because a judge has to consider all aspects of the supposed crime.

Now if I were a judge in the Cosby case, the one thing on my mind is money. Money drives people to do or say anything. Two is the fact that Cosby has more money than God and probably almost as popular in the US.

So as a judge, I would have to ask myself why would a guy, who is so popular, so wealthy, that he can just about get any woman he desires, would want to buy illegal narcotics, drug a girl, and then rape her?

Okay, just because he has a mile long line of women that would jump at the chance to sleep with him doesn't mean he's not kinky. Okay, but if that were the case, wouldn't these crimes have taken place during his most active sexual years and not his senior ones?

So if a jury would come back with a guilty verdict, chances are that as a judge, I would give him a slap on the hand because none of the motives make any sense.

 

[ChrisL]

Please show me some people who've been wronged by hate crime charges. If I'm wrong I'll admit it.

the bakers who were fined for not baking a gay wedding cake.

Is that what were talking about or violent crimes. I see your point but that's not the crimes I'm talking about. Felony hate crimes.
We had to protect blacks in the 60s today we have to protect gays too. Maybe if you stop picking on minorities.

Crack was unfair to blacks so hate crimes are unfair to whites because typically it'll be one of us getting that charge.

Chrisl doesn't like it because no one is targeting little white chicks? What's the difference between aggravated assault and rape? It's all bad. Why not sentence them equally?

Those are different LEVELS of crime, you dope!

I think someone going out to kill a minority or beat up a person in another group BECAUSE they are, and this can be proven, I want that evidence entered as evidence and I think the motives or thoughts do matter.

Let's use bill Cosby. The sentence for what he did is up to 10 years but most serve 22-36 months. Who gets ten years? Why not give everyone the same? Who is to judge such a thing? Oh I know, a judge!

Yes, because a judge has to consider all aspects of the supposed crime.

Now if I were a judge in the Cosby case, the one thing on my mind is money. Money drives people to do or say anything. Two is the fact that Cosby has more money than God and probably almost as popular in the US.

So as a judge, I would have to ask myself why would a guy, who is so popular, so wealthy, that he can just about get any woman he desires, would want to buy illegal narcotics, drug a girl, and then rape her?

Okay, just because he has a mile long line of women that would jump at the chance to sleep with him doesn't mean he's not kinky. Okay, but if that were the case, wouldn't these crimes have taken place during his most active sexual years and not his senior ones?

So if a jury would come back with a guilty verdict, chances are that as a judge, I would give him a slap on the hand because none of the motives make any sense.

Apparently, Mr. Cosby has been doing this since he was a lot younger. The statute of limitations prevents THOSE women from filing charges.