Are "Hate Crime" Laws Constitutional?

[Seawytch]

I tend to want to agree but I like stiffer penalties for people who kill cops or target seniors

I can agree with that, but we have a Constitution to abide by, and we are all supposed to be treated equally under the law regardless of race, gender or religion. If anything, let's up the prison time for everybody, and then let the judges make the decision on who gets the max. At least it's fair that way.

Fair? Like the rich kid who killed 4 and got probation for affluenza? Then violated probation and went to Mexico and still won't do serious time

Or Hillary Clinton violating federal classified data protection laws and getting away with it. No one should be above the law-----------------including your beloved Clintons.

Ovey!

Regurgitating bull crud again I see.....

She broke no law.

actually she did. Patreaus was found guilty of basically the same thing on a smaller scale.

Our Fishy is a Trump fan and believes the garbage he spews. The good general knowingly gave a woman he was sleeping with classified information. Knowingly gave information he knew to be classified at the time he provided it.

Hillary did nothing of the sort. She never transmitted a document that she knew to be classified at the time. You're a liar.

 

[JoeB131]

I would just elevate the punishment for all crimes, and make calling said crime a hate crime moot.

Murder is murder.

sorry, I see a guy who shoots the guy schtupping his wife in a moment of anger being a lot less venal than the guy who just beat someone up because they were gay or black.

Circumstances are ALWAYS relevent in assessing punishment.

 

[Skylar]

Bingo ! But the difference is what the guy is thinking. Motive .

So enough of this "what people are thinking doesn't matter " nonsense .

Apples and oranges.

What you're trying to do is make a comparison between different types of killings and killing based on category of people. If I kill an intruder it doesn't matter what race, sex or religion that person is. The same if I accidentally shoot somebody or catch them sleeping with my wife.

However Hate Crimes are special protections for potential Democrat voters like gays and minorities. How would you like if Republicans got leadership and made it an automatic death penalty for killing cops, CEO's or religious leaders?

No special group of people should have more advanced protection than all the other groups of people. It's a violation of Equal Protection. Furthermore is the hypocrisy from the left that have always protested capital punishment which is part of a Hate Crimes sentencing.

It is equal protection .

You realize white people can be victims of hate crimes right ? There's this misconception that hate crimes don't cover everyone .

We cannot punish the hate, we can only punish the crime. Hating is NOT a crime.

We can punish hate. The question is, should we? I find the entire idea....problematic.

I don't. When we have a court system that let's a rich kid off after killing 4 people, additional penalties we can attach to a violent crime is okay by me.

I do. I don't see much of a difference between a drunk guy picking a bar fight, and a drunk guy picking a bar fight and saying the word 'faggot'. But the penalties are wildly different. I've watched in real time, a gay acquaintance of mine walk into a bar and start insulting people as he passed them. When I told him that he was pissing folks off and might want to watch what he said, his reply was 'If anyone touches me its a hate crime'.

What disturbed me is that he was probably right.

 

[Skylar]

I can agree with that, but we have a Constitution to abide by, and we are all supposed to be treated equally under the law regardless of race, gender or religion. If anything, let's up the prison time for everybody, and then let the judges make the decision on who gets the max. At least it's fair that way.

Fair? Like the rich kid who killed 4 and got probation for affluenza? Then violated probation and went to Mexico and still won't do serious time

Or Hillary Clinton violating federal classified data protection laws and getting away with it. No one should be above the law-----------------including your beloved Clintons.

Ovey!

Regurgitating bull crud again I see.....

She broke no law.

Its a hail mary, 'please god, let me change the topic' sort of thing.

I didn't bring up the affluenza kid.

Yeah, but you did bring up your 'Hillary' nonsense. Which has exactly dick to do with this conversation.

 

[Seawytch]

Apples and oranges.

What you're trying to do is make a comparison between different types of killings and killing based on category of people. If I kill an intruder it doesn't matter what race, sex or religion that person is. The same if I accidentally shoot somebody or catch them sleeping with my wife.

However Hate Crimes are special protections for potential Democrat voters like gays and minorities. How would you like if Republicans got leadership and made it an automatic death penalty for killing cops, CEO's or religious leaders?

No special group of people should have more advanced protection than all the other groups of people. It's a violation of Equal Protection. Furthermore is the hypocrisy from the left that have always protested capital punishment which is part of a Hate Crimes sentencing.

It is equal protection .

You realize white people can be victims of hate crimes right ? There's this misconception that hate crimes don't cover everyone .

We cannot punish the hate, we can only punish the crime. Hating is NOT a crime.

We can punish hate. The question is, should we? I find the entire idea....problematic.

I don't. When we have a court system that let's a rich kid off after killing 4 people, additional penalties we can attach to a violent crime is okay by me.

I do. I don't see much of a difference between a drunk guy picking a bar fight, and a drunk guy picking a bar fight and saying the word 'faggot'. But the penalties are wildly different. I've watched in real time, a gay acquaintance of mine walk into a bar and start insulting people as he passed them. When I told him that he was pissing folks off and might want to watch what he said, his reply was 'If anyone touches me its a hate crime'.

What disturbed me is that he was probably right.

I'd like you to provide a link to that case, where the guy in a bar fight got the additional hate crime penalties because he threw out the f word for gay man.

And, no, he wouldn't have been right nor would someone who decked him have been prosecuted for a hate crime.

 

[Redfish]

Apples and oranges.

What you're trying to do is make a comparison between different types of killings and killing based on category of people. If I kill an intruder it doesn't matter what race, sex or religion that person is. The same if I accidentally shoot somebody or catch them sleeping with my wife.

However Hate Crimes are special protections for potential Democrat voters like gays and minorities. How would you like if Republicans got leadership and made it an automatic death penalty for killing cops, CEO's or religious leaders?

No special group of people should have more advanced protection than all the other groups of people. It's a violation of Equal Protection. Furthermore is the hypocrisy from the left that have always protested capital punishment which is part of a Hate Crimes sentencing.

It is equal protection .

You realize white people can be victims of hate crimes right ? There's this misconception that hate crimes don't cover everyone .

We cannot punish the hate, we can only punish the crime. Hating is NOT a crime.

We can punish hate. The question is, should we? I find the entire idea....problematic.

I don't. When we have a court system that let's a rich kid off after killing 4 people, additional penalties we can attach to a violent crime is okay by me.

I do. I don't see much of a difference between a drunk guy picking a bar fight, and a drunk guy picking a bar fight and saying the word 'faggot'. But the penalties are wildly different. I've watched in real time, a gay acquaintance of mine walk into a bar and start insulting people as he passed them. When I told him that he was pissing folks off and might want to watch what he said, his reply was 'If anyone touches me its a hate crime'.

What disturbed me is that he was probably right.

why should the penalty be greater because the perp used the word 'faggot' ? That makes no sense.

What if your gay buddy stirs up shit in a bar and gets his ass kicked and no one calls him a faggot? lesser crime?

do you see how foolish this is?

 

[Skylar]

I tend to want to agree but I like stiffer penalties for people who kill cops or target seniors

I can agree with that, but we have a Constitution to abide by, and we are all supposed to be treated equally under the law regardless of race, gender or religion. If anything, let's up the prison time for everybody, and then let the judges make the decision on who gets the max. At least it's fair that way.

Fair? Like the rich kid who killed 4 and got probation for affluenza? Then violated probation and went to Mexico and still won't do serious time

Or Hillary Clinton violating federal classified data protection laws and getting away with it. No one should be above the law-----------------including your beloved Clintons.

Ovey!

Regurgitating bull crud again I see.....

She broke no law.

actually she did. Patreaus was found guilty of basically the same thing on a smaller scale.

Patreus was found guilty of sharing classified information with his biographer. Who he was also fucking.

At issue are "black books" — eight notebooks in which Petraeus kept highly classified information that the government says included "the identities of covert officers, war strategy, intelligence capabilities and mechanisms, diplomatic discussions, quotes and deliberative discussions from high-level National Security Council meetings, and defendant David Howell Petraeus's discussions with the President of the United States of America."

Petraeus Sentenced To 2 Years' Probation, Fine For Sharing Classified Info

The emails were merely evidence of the above.

Again, which has nothing to do with this thread.

 

[Redfish]

Fair? Like the rich kid who killed 4 and got probation for affluenza? Then violated probation and went to Mexico and still won't do serious time

Or Hillary Clinton violating federal classified data protection laws and getting away with it. No one should be above the law-----------------including your beloved Clintons.

Ovey!

Regurgitating bull crud again I see.....

She broke no law.

Its a hail mary, 'please god, let me change the topic' sort of thing.

I didn't bring up the affluenza kid.

Yeah, but you did bring up your 'Hillary' nonsense. Which has exactly dick to do with this conversation.

Just reaffirming the point made by the other poster who brought up the affluenza kid. The law should apply to him and Hillary, just like it does to you and me.

I was agreeing with the other poster.

 

[Kosh]

Hate crime laws only apply to white people. .....

It bears repeating!!!

 

[Care4all]

I don't truly believe in hate crime laws....what they do is automatically add jail time.....that's about it....but jailtime can be longer without needing an extra law.... there is always a window, the low and the high, that can be used in sentencing.

And if my brother was murdered by someone, is that not hate? Why should my brothers murderer get a lighter sentence than a man who murdered a Christian Priest or a Muslim cleric or a black person?

That just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Redfish]

I can agree with that, but we have a Constitution to abide by, and we are all supposed to be treated equally under the law regardless of race, gender or religion. If anything, let's up the prison time for everybody, and then let the judges make the decision on who gets the max. At least it's fair that way.

Fair? Like the rich kid who killed 4 and got probation for affluenza? Then violated probation and went to Mexico and still won't do serious time

Or Hillary Clinton violating federal classified data protection laws and getting away with it. No one should be above the law-----------------including your beloved Clintons.

Ovey!

Regurgitating bull crud again I see.....

She broke no law.

actually she did. Patreaus was found guilty of basically the same thing on a smaller scale.

Patreus was found guilty of sharing classified information with his biographer. Who he was also fucking.

At issue are "black books" — eight notebooks in which Petraeus kept highly classified information that the government says included "the identities of covert officers, war strategy, intelligence capabilities and mechanisms, diplomatic discussions, quotes and deliberative discussions from high-level National Security Council meetings, and defendant David Howell Petraeus's discussions with the President of the United States of America."

Petraeus Sentenced To 2 Years' Probation, Fine For Sharing Classified Info

The emails were merely evidence of the above.

Again, which has nothing to do with this thread.

disclosure of classified data is a crime, the circumstances of the disclosure don't lessen the crime.

will HRC be prosecuted? probably not, we all know that the Clintons are special people who are above the law.

 

[Redfish]

I don't truly believe in hate crime laws....what they do is automatically add jail time.....that's about it....but jailtime can be longer without needing an extra law.... there is always a window, the low and the high, that can be used in sentencing.

And if my brother was murdered by someone, is that not hate? Why should my brothers murderer get a lighter sentence than a man who murdered a Christian Priest or a Muslim cleric or a black person?

That just doesn't make sense to me.

amazing, I never thought I would agree with you on anything.

 

[sealybobo]

Hate crime legislation is an attempt to punish thoughts. It is unconstitutional and very dangerous to a free society.

If someone kills you because of your race or kills you to steal your money, the crime is murder, it doesn't matter what the criminal was thinking when he committed the crime.

I tend to want to agree but I like stiffer penalties for people who kill cops or target seniors

I can agree with that, but we have a Constitution to abide by, and we are all supposed to be treated equally under the law regardless of race, gender or religion. If anything, let's up the prison time for everybody, and then let the judges make the decision on who gets the max. At least it's fair that way.

Fair? Like the rich kid who killed 4 and got probation for affluenza? Then violated probation and went to Mexico and still won't do serious time

Or Hillary Clinton violating federal classified data protection laws and getting away with it. No one should be above the law-----------------including your beloved Clintons.

We told you bush set a bad precedent deleting all those emails.

 

[Care4all]

I tend to want to agree but I like stiffer penalties for people who kill cops or target seniors

I can agree with that, but we have a Constitution to abide by, and we are all supposed to be treated equally under the law regardless of race, gender or religion. If anything, let's up the prison time for everybody, and then let the judges make the decision on who gets the max. At least it's fair that way.

Fair? Like the rich kid who killed 4 and got probation for affluenza? Then violated probation and went to Mexico and still won't do serious time

Or Hillary Clinton violating federal classified data protection laws and getting away with it. No one should be above the law-----------------including your beloved Clintons.

Ovey!

Regurgitating bull crud again I see.....

She broke no law.

actually she did. Patreaus was found guilty of basically the same thing on a smaller scale.

GOSH ALMIGHTY

YOU ARE BRAINWASHED AND INCAPABLE OF THINKING ON YOUR OWN


Petraeus, intentionally gave classified SECRETS to his mistress.

Clinton gave no classified secret information to anyone.

Keep playing dumb if you want.....

 

[Skylar]

Fair? Like the rich kid who killed 4 and got probation for affluenza? Then violated probation and went to Mexico and still won't do serious time

Or Hillary Clinton violating federal classified data protection laws and getting away with it. No one should be above the law-----------------including your beloved Clintons.

Ovey!

Regurgitating bull crud again I see.....

She broke no law.

actually she did. Patreaus was found guilty of basically the same thing on a smaller scale.

Patreus was found guilty of sharing classified information with his biographer. Who he was also fucking.

At issue are "black books" — eight notebooks in which Petraeus kept highly classified information that the government says included "the identities of covert officers, war strategy, intelligence capabilities and mechanisms, diplomatic discussions, quotes and deliberative discussions from high-level National Security Council meetings, and defendant David Howell Petraeus's discussions with the President of the United States of America."

Petraeus Sentenced To 2 Years' Probation, Fine For Sharing Classified Info

The emails were merely evidence of the above.

Again, which has nothing to do with this thread.

disclosure of classified data is a crime, the circumstances of the disclosure don't lessen the crime.

There's not even the accusation that Hillary 'disclosed classified information' to anyone. She's being accused of a record's keeping violation. Where the FBI is investigating how the information was handled and if it was secure enough. Patreaus walked out 8 black books and gave them to his biographer to read. Presumably after he fucked her.

You've got your wires crossed on this one. As those aren't the same thing.

And of course, its got dick to do with this thread. You're merely trying to change the topic.

 

[sealybobo]

Hate crime legislation is an attempt to punish thoughts. It is unconstitutional and very dangerous to a free society.

If someone kills you because of your race or kills you to steal your money, the crime is murder, it doesn't matter what the criminal was thinking when he committed the crime.

I tend to want to agree but I like stiffer penalties for people who kill cops or target seniors

I can agree with that, but we have a Constitution to abide by, and we are all supposed to be treated equally under the law regardless of race, gender or religion. If anything, let's up the prison time for everybody, and then let the judges make the decision on who gets the max. At least it's fair that way.

Fair? Like the rich kid who killed 4 and got probation for affluenza? Then violated probation and went to Mexico and still won't do serious time

Or Hillary Clinton violating federal classified data protection laws and getting away with it. No one should be above the law-----------------including your beloved Clintons.

Ovey!

Regurgitating bull crud again I see.....

She broke no law.

Facts don't matter to these guys

 

[sealybobo]

Bingo ! But the difference is what the guy is thinking. Motive .

So enough of this "what people are thinking doesn't matter " nonsense .

Apples and oranges.

What you're trying to do is make a comparison between different types of killings and killing based on category of people. If I kill an intruder it doesn't matter what race, sex or religion that person is. The same if I accidentally shoot somebody or catch them sleeping with my wife.

However Hate Crimes are special protections for potential Democrat voters like gays and minorities. How would you like if Republicans got leadership and made it an automatic death penalty for killing cops, CEO's or religious leaders?

No special group of people should have more advanced protection than all the other groups of people. It's a violation of Equal Protection. Furthermore is the hypocrisy from the left that have always protested capital punishment which is part of a Hate Crimes sentencing.

It is equal protection .

You realize white people can be victims of hate crimes right ? There's this misconception that hate crimes don't cover everyone .

We cannot punish the hate, we can only punish the crime. Hating is NOT a crime.

We can punish hate. The question is, should we? I find the entire idea....problematic.

I don't. When we have a court system that let's a rich kid off after killing 4 people, additional penalties we can attach to a violent crime is okay by me.

To them its no different if I shoot you or burn a senior citizen alive. No diff?

 

[Redfish]

I can agree with that, but we have a Constitution to abide by, and we are all supposed to be treated equally under the law regardless of race, gender or religion. If anything, let's up the prison time for everybody, and then let the judges make the decision on who gets the max. At least it's fair that way.

Fair? Like the rich kid who killed 4 and got probation for affluenza? Then violated probation and went to Mexico and still won't do serious time

Or Hillary Clinton violating federal classified data protection laws and getting away with it. No one should be above the law-----------------including your beloved Clintons.

Ovey!

Regurgitating bull crud again I see.....

She broke no law.

actually she did. Patreaus was found guilty of basically the same thing on a smaller scale.

GOSH ALMIGHTY

YOU ARE BRAINWASHED AND INCAPABLE OF THINKING ON YOUR OWN


Petraeus, gave classified SECRETS to his mistress.

Clinton gave no classified secret information to anyone.

Keep playing dumb if you want.....

actually, since her server was not secure, she very likely gave classified secret data to the Russians and Chinese.

but keep playing dumb, its what you libs do best.

 

[Redfish]

Or Hillary Clinton violating federal classified data protection laws and getting away with it. No one should be above the law-----------------including your beloved Clintons.

Ovey!

Regurgitating bull crud again I see.....

She broke no law.

actually she did. Patreaus was found guilty of basically the same thing on a smaller scale.

Patreus was found guilty of sharing classified information with his biographer. Who he was also fucking.

At issue are "black books" — eight notebooks in which Petraeus kept highly classified information that the government says included "the identities of covert officers, war strategy, intelligence capabilities and mechanisms, diplomatic discussions, quotes and deliberative discussions from high-level National Security Council meetings, and defendant David Howell Petraeus's discussions with the President of the United States of America."

Petraeus Sentenced To 2 Years' Probation, Fine For Sharing Classified Info

The emails were merely evidence of the above.

Again, which has nothing to do with this thread.

disclosure of classified data is a crime, the circumstances of the disclosure don't lessen the crime.

There's not even the accusation that Hillary 'disclosed classified information' to anyone. She's being accused of a record's keeping violation. Where the FBI is investigating how the information was handled and if it was secure enough. Patreaus walked out 8 black books and gave them to his biographer to read. Presumably after he fucked her.

You've got your wires crossed on this one. As those aren't the same thing.

And of course, its got dick to do with this thread. You're merely trying to change the topic.

the thread is about hate crime laws and the unequal application of the law based or race, age, sex, political connections, etc.

but lets stay on hate crimes, the truth about HRC and her illegal disclosure of classified data is tomorrow's story.

 

[Skylar]

Fair? Like the rich kid who killed 4 and got probation for affluenza? Then violated probation and went to Mexico and still won't do serious time

Or Hillary Clinton violating federal classified data protection laws and getting away with it. No one should be above the law-----------------including your beloved Clintons.

Ovey!

Regurgitating bull crud again I see.....

She broke no law.

actually she did. Patreaus was found guilty of basically the same thing on a smaller scale.

GOSH ALMIGHTY

YOU ARE BRAINWASHED AND INCAPABLE OF THINKING ON YOUR OWN


Petraeus, gave classified SECRETS to his mistress.

Clinton gave no classified secret information to anyone.

Keep playing dumb if you want.....

actually, since her server was not secure, she very likely gave classified secret data to the Russians and Chinese.

but keep playing dumb, its what you libs do best.

Says who? The concern is that it *could* have been hacked.

With you comparing a hypothetical hack, where someone *else* would have to have violated the law to get the information in act of digital burglary with walking 8 black books out of the CIA building and giving them to a biographer you are fucking.

Wow. When you go for random topic changes, you really go all in.