Zone1 Are There Prophets Around Today?

[rylah]

No, there's not. And I never said "this God." I provided an example of a valid question for God as in, "what is it that you wanted me to learn from this, God?"

Sorry, didn't notice the punctuation.

The subject of this conversation is Prophecy,
so I'm drawn to conclude the book of Job in that context.
However, it can be discussed in many different aspects to examine.

Another interesting one,
would be to trace Job in other books.
But that's almost an entirely different discussion.

 

[ding]

Do You think there's a place for lack of control,
as an aspect or an interval of lack of control,
if not only for the space of choice, but for
the sake of encompassing all control
itself holistically?

If the Creator's control is in everything,
everything must include the "not"...

In short - 'let go'?

I don't believe I would characterize it as control because as near as I can tell, he's not really pushing buttons and turning knobs. I think it's more like reality operates logically and successful behaviors naturally produce success just as failed behaviors naturally produce failures. Statistically speaking of course, in a probabilistic manner. In other words, our lessons keep returning to us until we learn from them. So from that perspective everything works itself out naturally. Just not always when and how we want it to. But nonetheless, it is comforting to know good arises from bad which allows me to let it go more easily.

 

[ding]

Sorry, didn't notice the punctuation.

The subject of this conversation is Prophecy,
so I'm drawn to conclude the book of Job in that context.
However, it can be discussed in many different aspects to examine.

Another interesting one,
would be to trace Job in other books.
But that's almost an entirely different discussion.

I think Job addresses why God allows bad things to happen to good people. As such we can all relate to Job on some level. The simple answer is that we don't have perfect knowledge. He does.

 

[Ace Nova]

Wrong. I am telling you that if what you profess to believe, that the Bible teaches truth and is the very Word of God, then you are already dead and in hell ever since the day that you first got down on your knees in the deranged adoration of a lifeless matzo made by human hands that can neither see, hear, speak, or walk, has no life to give, is not the body of Christ, much less God

Am I telling you something that you didn't already know or haven't already told you many times?

I believe in what the Bible teaches. Your addled mind desperately clinging to irrational religious flotsam, deaf to the voice of reason, blind to the absurdity of the words that come out of your mouth, is proof enough for me, actual evidence of Divine condemnation that anyone can verify.

If you prefer to believe in the garbage that you have swallowed, then, by all means, go to church.

Do whatever you want. I couldn't care less. My hands have been washed clean.

The blessing of food was established (repeatedly) in the Old Testament).

Leviticus 19:1-37​

And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak to all the congregation of the people of Israel and say to them, You shall be holy, for I the Lord your God am holy. Every one of you shall revere his mother and his father, and you shall keep my Sabbaths: I am the Lord your God. Do not turn to idols or make for yourselves any gods of cast metal: I am the Lord your God. “When you offer a sacrifice of peace offerings to the Lord, you shall offer it so that you may be accepted. .."

Proverbs 30:8​

"Remove far from me falsehood and lying; give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with the food that is needful for me.."

Exodus 23:25​

"You shall serve the Lord your God, and he will bless your bread and your water, and I will take sickness away from among you."

I understand that you do not accept the bread and wine as being the actual body and blood of Jesus Christ. And that's ok for a non Christian (There are Christian denominations that believe it is a "representation" of the body and blood of Jesus Christ.). Are you willing to acknowledge it as a "blessing" of food, the same way food was blessed in the Old Testament?

 

[rylah]

A Bridge between Faiths​

An Open Letter to Islam​

[Part 1]​

January 21, 2024
​

What does Judaism have to say about Islam?​

On the 7th of October, 2023, Hamas attacked the citizens of Israel. Over 1,200 children, women and elderly, Jews, and people of all religions were brutally murdered, hundreds were taken captive, and some were murdered in captivity. This attack was carried out by an Islamic movement acting in the name of Islam. This fact should lead us to reflect more deeply on the relationship between Judaism and Islam in the present and, more importantly, in the future. Facing this brutal attack, the Jewish nation has decided to fight to defend itself and has embarked on a mission to destroy Hamas.

Is Islam capable of progressing toward a spiritual goal that will prevent such atrocities in the future? The answer is to be sought amongst the leading Islamic religious authorities.

This question has become more salient today, mainly because the current moment in Arab history is unique. For the first time, a sovereign Jewish state arose again in a land that had been part of the Muslim world for a significant period (Dar al-Islam). This situation has engendered complex relations between Jews and Arabs in the land of Israel and across the Middle East.

Little has been written over the centuries exploring the Jewish tradition’s view of Islam. Such literature does exist, both in the philosophical realm and in that of Jewish law, but for the most part it is scattered across the rabbinic literature and challenging to find concentrated in one source. As well, few rabbinic authorities have also studied Islam in-depth.

In this letter I will fill this void. I have no intention to ignore or distort the problems between Judaism and Islam. Still, I am writing to the Islamic religious leadership in the hope that it will contribute to our mutual understanding and promote more peaceful relations between the sons of Abraham: the descendants of Israel and the descendants of Ishmael.

​

The Status of Islam in Judaism​

The status of Islam in the Jewish philosophical and halachic (legal) literature is a topic that few take the time to study in-depth, both among Jewish and Islamic scholars.

We must address this from multiple facets: in part 1 of the letter, I will discuss the points of commonality between Judaism and Islam and the points of contention. In part 2, I will address the status of the prophet Mohammad, the potential for joint action between Islam and Judaism as strictly monotheistic religions, steps that Islam must take from the perspective of Judaism to allow for such cooperation, the future of relations between the State of Israel and the Muslim world, the relevance of the seven Noahide laws for Muslims and the potential contribution of Judaism to Islam.

Points of commonality between Islam and Judaism​

• Islam and Judaism agree with the belief in monotheism (that God is One), the negation of God’s corporeality and the rejection of idolatry. The great Jewish scholar, Maimonides wrote that the monotheism of the sons of Ishmael is a “pure monotheism, without flaw,” meaning with no pagan components. Judaism recognizes that Islam worships one God despite the differences in understanding the meaning of this oneness, and this recognition has practical implications. One of them is that while Jewish law forbids a Jew from entering a place of idol worship, it allows entry to a mosque. All rabbis accept this, myself included. We have no desire to convert Muslims to Judaism nor to kill or subjugate them.
• From Judaism’s perspective, all people are obligated to accept and fulfill the seven commandments God gave to all humanity, referred to in the Jewish tradition as “The Seven Noahide Laws.” These laws are the prohibition of idolatry, prohibition of cursing God, prohibition of murder, the prohibition of sexual deviancy, prohibition of theft, the prohibition of eating meat torn from a living animal, and the positive obligation to establish courts of justice and a penal system. Islam accepts these commandments in principle, and therefore Judaism can accept Islam as a sister religion – and indeed we are both descendants of Abraham. At the same time, Islam has not yet clearly affirmed these principles as obligatory toward non-Muslims and this equivocation has been a blemish on Islam throughout its history, expressed once again by the events of October 7th.
• God has not commanded the Jews to convert non-Jews, but rather to accept only those who desire to join the Jewish people out of their own initiative. In contrast, Islam aspires to impose its rule on the entire world. The use of violence to further the spread of faith is considered entirely illegitimate by Judaism. However, from a Jewish perspective, the original intent of Islam could be expressed by Abraham’s initial phase, in which he built a movement for ethical monotheism, gathering tens of thousands of followers before he was commanded to found a particular nation.
• God commanded the people of Israel with 613 commandments, above and beyond the seven Noahide laws. The 613 commandments were given as part of the covenant God made with the people of Israel so that they would serve as a model of a holy nation for all humanity and collective holiness. The sons of Ishmael were blessed with fertility and abundance to fulfill the mission of spreading the worship of the true God to all people as individuals. In other words, the sons of Ishmael were given the role of spreading the knowledge of the One God and His ethical commandments to a more significant number of people. In contrast, the sons of Isaac and Jacob were given the role of founding a model of collective holiness based on the covenant with God to make them a “kingdom of priests and a holy nation,” to serve as a model for emulation for all humanity.
• For Judaism, the appearance of a new religion that recognizes God’s oneness and the Noahide laws was a cause for grand celebration, and many expressions of affinity could be found in the initial period of Islam, despite the difficult and violent conflicts of those days.
• In light of the crisis of values in many societies in our times, cooperation between the sons of Israel and the sons of Ishmael could bring great blessing to the world and promote the belief in God’s oneness and his ethical commandments.

Points of disagreement between Judaism and Islam​

Alongside the above commonalities, there exist many significant points of dispute between Judaism and Islam. We will focus here only on the main and fundamental points and not the peripheral ones.

• The first point of contention is the claim by Islam that the Mosaic Torah has been nullified and that even the Jews are called upon to accept Islam. For Judaism, the Mosaic Torah is eternal. Even if God sends additional prophets after Moses, and even if He sends them to other nations, the Torah remains valid, as it represents God’s word and is incumbent on all Jews. Likewise, it must be stated that according to Judaism, the commandments of the Mosaic Torah are not incumbent on Muslims.
• The second point of contention is Islam’s claim that the Jews have corrupted the holy scripture and erased, as it were, the predictions of the coming of Muhammad. This claim is not made across the board but instead mainly concerning any contradiction between the Torah and the Quran. Many of the stories of the Hebrew Bible and the Jewish tradition are brought in the Quran, which Muslims accept as accurate.
• The third point of contention, most relevant today, is God’s promise that the Jewish people will return to their land and establish a state.
• Islam holds that it must spread its faith to all humanity by force if necessary. Judaism rejects the use of violence as a tool for spreading its faith.

Therefore, for Islam to be truly accepted by Judaism as a legitimate religion for all peoples, three points must be agreed upon:

• The recognition of Islam as a religion parallel to Judaism and not as a replacement and that the prophecy of Muhammad has not come to invalidate the Mosaic Torah.
• The recognition that the Torah is God’s word, which carries a message to all humanity. This requires abandoning the claim of corruption (Tahrif), so that Judaism will be acknowledged as the religion from which Islam developed.
• The recognition of the divine promise that the Jewish people will return to their historic homeland and rule in it, as it says explicitly in the Quran.

Suppose the Islamic religious leadership should desire to build a bridge between the believers in the One God. In that case, they must be willing to listen to what Judaism has to say about additional essential issues, including Muhammad’s status, Judaism’s potential contribution to the world of Islamic faith, and more. I will address these topics in part 2 of this open letter.

With wishes for peace,
Rabbi Oury Cherki,
Chairman of Brit Olam Institutions

جسر الإيمان رسالة إلى حكماء الإسلام– الجزء الأول –

ما رأي اليهودية في الإسلام؟ في السابع من أكتوبر 2023، هاجمت حركة حماس مواطني دولة إسرائيل حيثُ قُتِل بوحشية أكثر من 1400 طفل وامرأة ومسن من اليهود ومن أتباع جميع الديانات، كما تم اختطاف المئات ممن قُتل بعضهم في الأسر. تم تنفيذ الهجوم الشائن على يد منظمة إسلامية تعمل باسم الإسلام. وقد تطلبت هذه...

noahideworldcenter.org

A Bridge between FaithsAn Open Letter to Islam[Part 1]

In the aftermath of the 2023 Hamas attack on Israel, Rabbi Oury Cherki explores the complex relationship between Judaism and Islam. Part 1 delves into commonalities and disagreements, emphasizing the need for mutual understanding and peace. The article challenges Islam to align with Jewish...

noahideworldcenter.org

 

[rylah]

Is Moshiach in Our Midst?​

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Just wondering because it seems like all the prophecies that I've been having lately have been coming true and I want to know what others around here think.

You don't have "prophecies"

 

[surada]

Hamas isn't Islam.

 

[irosie91]

Hamas isn't Islam.

Oh----could you so inform Yahya Sinwar?

 

[irosie91]

Oh----could you so inform Yahya Sinwar?

PS. While you are at it----also inform AYATOALLAH ALI KHOMENEI
but don't tell him about your sunni friends

 

[surada]

PS. While you are at it----also inform AYATOALLAH ALI KHOMENEI
but don't tell him about your sunni friends

Hamas has always hurt the Palestinians.

 

[irosie91]

Hamas has always hurt the Palestinians.

the "palestinians" voted them into RULE and still support
them. So far, I have not encountered a single Iranian who
supports Ali Khomenei---but I know a select group---those
who fled the specter of ISLAMIZATION---way back in the late
1960s and into the 1970s. Hamas seem to like him --as does
the Ophthalmologist, BASHAR. I have not encountered a single
Lebanese person who likes Nuskharahallah either. Where is
Ibn Saud when muslim tribes need uniting?

 

[surada]

the "palestinians" voted them into RULE and still support
them. So far, I have not encountered a single Iranian who
supports Ali Khomenei---but I know a select group---those
who fled the specter of ISLAMIZATION---way back in the late
1960s and into the 1970s. Hamas seem to like him --as does
the Ophthalmologist, BASHAR. I have not encountered a single
Lebanese person who likes Nuskharahallah either. Where is
Ibn Saud when muslim tribes need uniting?

Israel is responsible for both Hamas and Hezbollah.

 

[Failzero]

Hamas isn't Islam. But Islam is Hamas

 

[irosie91]

Israel is responsible for both Hamas and Hezbollah.

of course---the BUBONIC PLAGUE too. ----in my
anglican town----DA ZIONISTS plotted to Fluoridate
the water. I remember the bloody conflict in Pakistan--
between West and East Pakistan (now Bangla Desh)---I was
acquainted with samples of the players----DA ZIONISTS
caused that one too----Hindu children were dropping dead
in their tracks from an artificial famine imposed on them---
by the minions of the rapist of mecca, as they desperately
tried to reach West Bengal---ZIONISTS!!! again...........

 

[irosie91]

Hamas has always hurt the Palestinians.

OH---I did not know that the UMMAH recognizes that fact is
is DELIGHTED that Israel is trying to ROOT HAMAS OUT OF
THEIR RAT-HOLES in Gaza----thanks---MAKES MY DAY

 

[surada]

Failzero why did you change my post?

 

[surada]

OH---I did not know that the UMMAH recognizes that fact is
is DELIGHTED that Israel is trying to ROOT HAMAS OUT OF
THEIR RAT-HOLES in Gaza----thanks---MAKES MY DAY

Hamas is Muslim Brotherhood. They are as mean as the Zionists. God I hate nationalism...whether it's white, Christian, Arab, Jewish, black or Nazis.

 

[surada]

of course---the BUBONIC PLAGUE too. ----in my
anglican town----DA ZIONISTS plotted to Fluoridate
the water. I remember the bloody conflict in Pakistan--
between West and East Pakistan (now Bangla Desh)---I was
acquainted with samples of the players----DA ZIONISTS
caused that one too----Hindu children were dropping dead
in their tracks from an artificial famine imposed on them---
by the minions of the rapist of mecca, as they desperately
tried to reach West Bengal---ZIONISTS!!! again...........

Leave Lebanon alone and quit killing people and taking land.

 

[Failzero]

Failzero why did you change my post?

I quoted myself ( not a change )